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viverxia
Serenity Prime
The Volition Cult
0
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Posted - 2014.10.14 14:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just got to post this since it came to mind.
Lasers in combat use in space seem to be... well different to those used in other parts of the eve universe (mainly the ones in other used for mining, Target painting and those used by dust mercs).
Pulse lasers, by the name seem to work correctly for their class.
But Beam lasers I assume are supposed to be weapons like those in other classes, Focused beams of constant energy.
A suggestion (and not a nerf).
Then we take Beams and change them up. Instead of their current behavior we change them to be more consistent with other parts of the lore. Instead of between their cycles fading and re-firing. The laser would stay constant and cause its damage over the length of the cycle, Rather than in one massive block together. These lasers would be more accurate than their pulse counterparts, but cause less damage over the same period of time.
I suggest that Pulses might become the new Damage dealer of the lasers, Designed for dealing with Similar sized and larger ships. And beams becoming the GÇ£Rapid lightGÇ¥ of the Lasers, Incredible for dealing with smaller ships due to their tracking and accuracy. So too would their ranges, Pulses becoming the shorter range brawling laser and Beams becoming a longer range precision weapon.
I intentionally left numbers out, I know adding numbers can lead to a bias towards certain weapon systems/nations/platforms
I have full faith that ccp if they were to take on the idea that they would sort that aspect.
Thanks
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Burneddi
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
138
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Posted - 2014.10.14 17:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not sure how damage-over-time effects would work in Eve's combat.
Also, what's the practical difference between a weapon with a fast cycle time that deals damage at the beginning of the cycle, and a weapon with a slow cycle time that deals damage throughout the cycle? |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
182
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Posted - 2014.10.14 17:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
There wouldn't really be one, it'd basically become a gun with 1s cycles and some art to cover it up.
It sounds interesting in theory but the main way to avoid damage would be moar transversal... just like any other turret, not really clear on what we gain? Less alpha I suppose.
Travelling at the speed of love. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
536
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Posted - 2014.10.14 17:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
I kinda like the idea of Beam Lasers becoming "always on" weapons that do a certain amount of damage every tick for the duration the laser is on. I would handle the mechanics a bit differently than mining lasers though: always on, but short (1 sec) cycle times for all Beam Lasers. Obviously adjust the damage figures and cap stats to maintain the same average DPS and cap usage over time.
I see the benefits of this change being:
1. MOAR LIGHTSHOWS! 
2. What lasers would lose in Alpha (i.e. they'd have no alpha), they'd gain in the ability to rapidly switch between targets due to low cycle times.
Downsides:
1. RoF bonuses to lasers would have to be totally reworked, which would be a change of rather significant proportion. How do you give a RoF bonus to something that already does damage every server tick?
I disagree with your proposal regarding beams and rapid launcher mechanics. While it may be interesting to look at introducing turrets that target under-sized targets like rapid launchers, any such launchers should be in addition to existing lasers, not instead of.
Overall, I think it's a neat idea, but I don't think the pros outweigh the cons.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
80
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Posted - 2014.10.14 17:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
1s cycle means more server interaction which is bad for large fights. |
viverxia
Serenity Prime
The Volition Cult
0
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Posted - 2014.10.14 18:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:
I disagree with your proposal regarding beams and rapid launcher mechanics. While it may be interesting to look at introducing turrets that target under-sized targets like rapid launchers, any such launchers should be in addition to existing lasers, not instead of.
Overall, I think it's a neat idea, but I don't think the pros outweigh the cons.
The comparison to Rapids is not in their mechanics, but function.
It would just effectively make the two types of weapons more distinctly different in use and deployment. Giving them both very separate roles on the battlefield.
Bronson Hughes wrote:
1. RoF bonuses to lasers would have to be totally reworked, which would be a change of rather significant proportion. How do you give a RoF bonus to something that already does damage every server tick?
This however is an issue, one that i think could be solved by looking at hows Dust 514 laser rifles interact with damage mods.
---
The purpose is less that "lasers need this" is more that i think lasers should be brought in-line with other examples of lasers within the universe.
If all were perfect, they wouldn't "loose" anything, if it came in with a balance pass to these weapons it could be the oppertunity to change up their roles to something different.
I am just of the thought that its strange that amarr laser rifles work one way, But beam lasers dont seem to follow the same rules?
Despite having the same overheating mechanics, moduals, and fuction within the lore. |
Arla Sarain
87
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Posted - 2014.10.14 18:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aerie Evingod wrote:1s cycle means more server interaction which is bad for large fights.
Effect can be truncated.
You dont have to make a damage call every second.
Just once at the start of every cycle, the client would then tick the damage every second until it ends. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
536
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Posted - 2014.10.14 18:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
viverxia wrote:The comparison to Rapids is not in their mechanics, but function.
It would just effectively make the two types of weapons more distinctly different in use and deployment. Giving them both very separate roles on the battlefield.
Regardless of mechanics or function, you cannot replace a long range, slow tracking weapon with a long range, fast tracking weapon and maintain any semblance of weapon balance. If you're interested in pursuing this, I'd highly suggest introducing an entirely new turret instead of trying to change existing turret mechanics.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
182
|
Posted - 2014.10.14 18:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Downsides:
1. RoF bonuses to lasers would have to be totally reworked, which would be a change of rather significant proportion. How do you give a RoF bonus to something that already does damage every server tick?
So all laser bonuses become damage bonuses, some numbers tweaked to compensate for double damage bonus instead of damage/rof. Hardly super excessive, infact you could reasonably argue it should be this way already.
Travelling at the speed of love. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
536
|
Posted - 2014.10.14 18:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:Downsides:
1. RoF bonuses to lasers would have to be totally reworked, which would be a change of rather significant proportion. How do you give a RoF bonus to something that already does damage every server tick? So all laser bonuses become damage bonuses, some numbers tweaked to compensate for double damage bonus instead of damage/rof. Hardly super excessive, infact you could reasonably argue it should be this way already.
If lasers were capless weapons and many laser-bonused ships didn't have laser cap usage bonuses to help offset RoF bonuses, I'd agree with you. But they're not, so I can't.
Amarr ships would need a pretty significant rework of their bonuses to support this. Not saying this would be a bad thing, I just don't think the benefits of the change would offset the work necessary.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
58
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Posted - 2014.10.14 19:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
All i want is for beam lasers animation to match their cycle time so they actually ARE beam lasers...
Haven't read the rest of this thread... |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
307
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Posted - 2014.10.14 22:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Aerie Evingod wrote:1s cycle means more server interaction which is bad for large fights. Effect can be truncated. You dont have to make a damage call every second. Just once at the start of every cycle, the client would then tick the damage every second until it ends.
A question: What happens when the transversal changes enough inside a cycle to make the weapon miss? Could the server handle that, or would someone have to hit for an entire cycle to prevent all his damage from being blasted into obliviion?
But overall, I think what's best is leaving the beam lasers as they are and changing the pulse laser animation instead, so it looks like short burst weapon, like the name suggests.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1587
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Posted - 2014.10.14 23:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Beam lasers shouldn't be constant.
Look up real world lasers and heat issues with them. You turn them off to allow the focusing mirrors and lens to cool otherwise they warp and you loose targeting ability.
Pulse lasers also do have a very different looking animation that is obviously a bunch of short bursts with a cool down cycle between them.
So... No changes needed. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2913
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Posted - 2014.10.15 00:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
viverxia wrote:The purpose is less that "lasers need this" is more that i think lasers should be brought in-line with other examples of lasers within the universe.
This is quite literally the worst reason to change something that I have ever seen outside of a cloaking thread.
Also, laser rifles work the way they do because the internal overheat-prevention mechanism has been deliberately disabled. |
viverxia
Serenity Prime
The Volition Cult
0
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Posted - 2014.10.15 11:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Prehapse instead of shorter cycles it should be longer then? The Lasers in dust can still fire a lot longer before they shut off to prevent damage to the user and they operate at much higher temperature than a space based laser would.
With all the internal cooling systems a ship can provide, and the naturally cold enviroment?
And if you have something constructive to say that's cool, but just railing on a thread isnt helpful.
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Heresy Heresy
THA BUTT
1
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Posted - 2014.10.15 12:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
...Well, space isn't cold, for one. There's no air, so there's nothing for the heat to conduct into, everything has to be radiated or you have to provide your own coolant.
The tracking change sounds cool. but it would need a lot of work to make it balanced. I can't think of a weapon system that has high range, high tracking and high fire rate, it'd be kiting/sniping hell unless the damage is really low. |
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