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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
19
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Posted - 2014.10.16 13:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
i'm leading one corp based on our bomber bar and i have experience over 10k kills with bomber bar. we italian and i'm not heavy skillled in english, sorry for my english.
first of all, i dont see really nothing in re-balance side but the direction is nefing completly a doctrine, a gameplay style, a community and people enjoyin in a unique gameplay style.
One single aspect of these change are enough to make bombing bar extremly difficult, all togheder made this almost unthinkable for human communities made of real people with veterans and newbie.
*the 12 second align destroy the chance of wiping the best-bang-for-buck cormorant rail fleets. most of the nado, naga, bct3 and othere usual kiters can take simply a fleet warp even not aligned.
*smartbomb use will be deployed in some doctrine fit and , except making a mess in battle result at the end of the day, will simply wipe the entire volley. In 0.0 i will espect a medium smartbomb (1 slot) in almos every doctrine fit and will be simply impossible attacking powerblock in subcapital deploy.
*the mass decloacking effect will make very slower , togheder with nerf of align and warp, at the point to allowing only very few (if possible) runs in a night. nullifing the launcher bomb lvl 5 bonus.
the only option in action at moment looks the goku but killing completly the steath side of the ship, nothing more of stealth just a in field wing. Goku doctrine used the signature to tank but the boost of +20% make the dps incoming unsusteinable.
The locking time in traditional bomber bar with greater signature and lower agility will reise follish level the risk of being wipe.
I will remember a bomber wing is over 400m for every squad of 10 real man and really at moment istalocked and istashotted.
instead of , like sandbox manifesto, helping people finding new way to think a solution or approach for a fight this nerf kill many of the new tecnique i had seen in last month like voiding cruiser, double or triple point ista bomb or simply the classic 1 wave every 6 seconds..... do u want only these people join main fleet and bye bye to creativity, fantasy and think-different approach to battle?
the +10% rof even for a whole corp trained to 5 is in real unapplicable because is unthinkable stay in field for over 1 min of enemy dps with a faster locking and faster alphaing of these bomber. The signature was the focus on our tank and the plate mixed with lower agility will kill us more than everything else.
A side of that the smartbomb will complete the job.
the capital bomb is quite smart to create a link between capital and subcapitals.
i think all these nerf togheder will headshot not only casual bomber team but even experienced community playing eve and trying to do many tecnique since months and months. |
Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
20
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Posted - 2014.10.16 13:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:Longdrinks wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:Did you just make light interdictors useless by creating interdiction stealth bombers?
It's an honest question, because this is a very significant change.
A frig with interdiction bubbling abilities is very powerful, plus being able to covop cloak.
This is a concern, but I don't know if this is op or not. you should probably read that part again lolololololololololololololol I have they bubble themselves, but a throwaway cloaky, or a permacloak bomber on a wormhole, or gate. We use sabre's in this way. The new dictor bubble is for Interdictors, not for Stealth Bombers. It's in this post because it is designed as a tool for countering bombers in some circumstances.
CCP Fozzie, do you know very well, i suppose, the great impact of bubble for bomber bar. Taking position, warpin and warpout is mainly disrupted by the wise use of probes and i agree with this improvment.
But in other side i think headshotting us with the align time, 12 sec bomb, smartbomb vulnerability, mass-decloack is a too heavy nerf. The name itself of the class ship is to nerf: nothing more steath for the mass decloack and no more bomber for the vulnerability to istalock and long align...
I agree we may need a rebalance but allow the intelligence of the hostile to disrupt us. The new interdiction probe is a good idea and will defend actively a hostile fleet but, i repeat, reconsider the whole nerf to avoid headshotting entire corps.
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.10.16 14:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:These changes are intended to make it easier for fleets to counter bombers (whether the bombers are isboxed or not) and to make organization of characters valuable again for bombing. Organization of pilots is made easier in a lot of ways with isboxer, but that has always been true and isn't some new phenomenon coming from these changes.
We'll be watching these changes very carefully on SISI, and if this hits bombers too hard we can easily make adjustments. We do not want to "headshot" bombers, and we don't currently believe that these changes make them unviable.
I think some people came into this thread expecting it to be something completely different, and are therefore disappointed.
If you want to discuss our policies surrounding isboxer that is fine, but there are other threads for that.
at moment the cormorant rail, the wise use of bubble is already a counter.
but in the antibomber wing u r giving a full weaponry to wipe us in too easy way. Smartbomb, 12 sec detonation, anti bomber bubblers, mass declaock, long time align is a headshot.
is a headshot not a rebalance for real man community, i dont care about isbox or other pirats program but i'm thinking how is possible to comunicate and do something.
At least give the chance of cloacked ship in same fleet to see eachother.
Is unthinkable even at "lore of new eden" level a squad cloacked dont see the members at few km each other! and cannot do nothing to avoid decloacking!!! sci-fi level like star wars or star treck ships aren acceptable are so dumb
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.10.16 14:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:since the anti-cap void bomb has no AOE there is no reason to not allow them in low, right?
with no aoe and multiple decloack i think is almost impossible for a wing to center target. OFC a real man wing with vets and noob inside.
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
allowing to bomber to see each other in fleet is lore-oriented and may help real people to co-op.
i still think deployin some smartbomb on dominix will make them invulnerable to bomb but at least we have some small chance aganist others.
i will remmeber the old shoold bomber bar NOT had the limit of 6 bomb per run because bomb dont apply damage each others so at moment we are at the edge of collapse. the "old" decloack + new limit to 6 bomb + smartbomb + 12 sec flight time + antibomber bubblers + more sign + more align time allow only the use of gokus. i can accept to redirect to goku style but it is absolutily different gameplay (target pew pew, bcast rep) and in some way is the "usual" gameplay killing the different-way to play of steath bomber.
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
24
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Posted - 2014.10.16 18:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
the so called "good elite old time" of bomber don't had the limit of 7 bombs , u can take position and fire with all firepower in one single wave... doing the "elite old time" + 7 bomb only + 12 sec bomb + more align time + smart bomb defense + anti bomber bubbler!!!
if it was elite in old time now is unthinkable.
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
26
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Posted - 2014.10.17 05:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
i remember the clarion call 4 video of RNK.
bomber bar corp and RnK and other pipe bomb corp are managin with skill and intelligence the technique "few vs many".
i think is a value for the EveOnline community small entity can manage the "few vs many" guerrilla techniques.
The jump fatigue (even for pipe bomb) and the destruction of SB make this a clear direction of gameplay.
But, before bomber bar corp vanish, i need to say that "making bomb run more complicated" is for challenging pilot a good trial but i will point the finger that medium 0.0 pilot have only to follow the primary and anchor.
At moment we have to co-op with clocked invisible pilot, probing in combat between 600 ships and wreck and corpse that declaock us. Find a good spot and theorize without seen if can drag from our invisible tactical, call the warp then align a invisible wing then decloakc and bomb and warp out to another good spot found before. Doing this with 3 volley and avoid every volley decloack the others is really at a difficult level unthinkable for "classic 0.0 monkey".
This is already awesome level of gameplay of eve online when the usual 0.0 blob have difficult in following a single primary and anchor once landed to fc.
I thinked a lot of Gokus but the +15 point of signature against 125mm turret is a headshot too. faster lock, faster alpha. Goku usually wipe with x-instinct and booster signature.... nowadays.. a few point of armor with a major dps incoming is brutal.
I really hope dev and ccp tried to do in a real 0.0 field a bomber wing with 2-3 volley: because i think if they doing is successful i think all this nerf will not to be made.
At least we can rethink about see other bomber in space or give us a t2 bomb with major damage and smaller area so we can think to manage smaller volley like 3-4 and using the bonus of rof (even if with nerf to align and warp speed we already land at tactical with t2 launcher almost reloaded!, no need more rof).
12 sec flight time not allow to bomb the safespot tactical when done fast probing and panic warpout ... a error of enemy fc and we cannot gain advantage :(
please don't go in blob f1 monkey direction this is a real loss of value for the community.
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.10.17 07:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:From the CSM8 winter minutesQuote:
There was general agreement that bombers should be able to
punish careless or bad FC decisions, but that it is currently simply too easy for them right now.
because PGL brought it up earlier AND someone asked why SB's were being worked on. m
"too easy" but at foolish harder level than a normal player do in a usual 00 blob. (align f1 f1 f1 f1 take passive wing warp f1 f1 f1 bcast f1 f1 f1 align take passive wing warp died)
CCP are destroyin one of the most difficult gameplay actually done in eveonline under logistical (viator cyno blackops for restock) under human coordination (everyone tell me distance from x or y because i'm fc of a ghost fleet and i cannot see you , your single voice tell me the picture of fleet position) and dps outcoming (volley 1 go, volley 2 align , volley 3 hold , volley 2 bomb, volley 1 warpout , vollety 3 align aganist f1 f1 f1 f1 f1. in every cta with 3 or 4 volley i have chronometer in hand) and dps mitigation incoming (align to celestial, warpout on yeallowbox do TD to dps and Paint the primary (for goku in example)).....
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.10.17 09:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
people but these ISBOX how many kill have done?
because we did 35k kill in our corp only and we doin often bomber bars. The isbox is a cancer doing thousand of kills every month or we are talking of 2-3 wing wipe a month?
for what i know we never seen in south of new eden isboxer bomber wing, maybe in the north they running? they did so much damage to need to destroy entire corp\bomber wing?
i dont think the cure for a small problem is making 100-200-500 real people totally sad for destroy his gameplay...
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
29
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Posted - 2014.10.17 16:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:[
Look at all of the major fleet fights which got bombed over the past year. How many of them didn't involve isboxer? Maybe one or two. How many involved isboxed bombers? Almost all of them.
i totally disagree. i know at least a couple of corp bombing oriented and they dunt use never isbox (cause they are all differente real people coordinating in ts3 ).
I never never seen isbox in south of new eden. |
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
31
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Posted - 2014.10.17 18:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aram Kachaturian wrote:I checked all your killboards one by one, killmail by killmail and as I thought a large part of you has no ******* idea how bombing worked prior to 2012 and didnt bomb intensively at all before and after.
You are just complaining to ruin CCP Fozzie weekend and that's not cool.
http://oscurasimmetria.eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=186748
http://kb.yulaifederation.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=7476
http://kb.yulaifederation.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_ext_id=98091868&view=ships_weapons
over 16000 kills in purifier , over 5700 kills in manticore.
before 2012 u don't had the each-other damage of bombs so u can have clacking problem but u had only to manage a single volley.
ccp will introduce a tons of nerf much more than "before 2012". and i think they buffed the bomber to allow people to use them so was a problem and a solution. if they now want to lower use of bombers they have to put the bomber difficult level between "prior 2012" and "now".
with this feature we go in a new level of difficult much more than 2012.
in prior 2012 u dont had:
12 sec flight
smart bomb defense
higher signature
antibomber bubbles
lower agility.
damage each other bombs.
this is the death. |
Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 07:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
i suppose at least making the cloacked fleet visibile each other is the only chance to let something like a bomber bar living... and at lore level is absolutly acceptable than a ship without any form of sensor (even visual)... |
Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
34
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Posted - 2014.10.27 19:46:12 -
[13] - Quote
i hope fozzie u can reconsider some point of this huge nerf. Let us view each other to take position (and lore compatible and acceptable) when clocked. 12 seconds, smart bomb, mass decloacking, align time, signature (lock time and being alphaed) is a class destruction even more with new t3 dessie!!!!
There is another big problem. Actual wave is done by 3 void and 7 normal bomb. If u lower HP the void make a lot of damage to normal bomb and cannot sustain a full wave with void inside.
Is possible lower the damage of void bomb compatible with reduction of hp of bombs so we can keep the void strike in same wave of damage?
void go for 8 seconds too? versus the new 12 second of normal nerfed bombs?
-we did over 14k kills in bomber, safe bomber bar corp!!! - |
Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 08:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. Here are our latest updates to the plan.
Firstly and most significantly, the change to decloaking mechanics has been put on hold indefinitely. We are going to take some more time to work on the best way to have ships interact with cloakies and it's very possible that our eventual changes will be significantly different than what we talked about earlier. For now, cloaked ships will not decloak each other.
We're also going to be removing some of the earlier increase in signature radius and shifting it to a penalty on the bomb launcher itself. The T1 bomb launcher will add +10m signature radius and the T2 will add 12m.
We're increasing the capacity of the T2 bomb launcher to 300m3.
The Focused Void Bomb will have an explosion radius of 5000m, 1000m more than originally proposed.
Both the new bomb and new interdiction probe will be made available exclusively in the Syndicate LP store.
The new interdiction probe will be delayed slightly as we've run into some graphical issues with it that we'll need more time to properly fix.
We've sourced a lot of these changes from this thread, thanks to everyone who has been providing feedback.
TNX CCP.
This is good.
we accept 12 sec flight and other nerfs but my corp can still continue exist. ^^^^ |
Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:21:07 -
[15] - Quote
check please the damage of void bomb, actually with "old" damage they nuke normal damage bomb in same volley.
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
34
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Posted - 2014.10.31 06:13:19 -
[16] - Quote
actually void bomb do a little bit more of 21 hp of damage to normal bomb, with only around 96 hp the void bomb cannot be mixed anymore with normal bombs. it is intended?
i think is coherent reduce damage of void bomb to allow the usual mix. |
Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 09:08:49 -
[17] - Quote
sorry for my english. THE PROBLEM is the DAMAGE of void (7 of each type) TO OTHER BOMBS. not the problem ofc of other bombs on void (void faster ofc).
with lower HP (from 240 to 96) the VOID do a lot of damage to normal damage bomb.
ps. i wiped shittons of sleepy tengu but need the void. |
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