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stripminers should do damgae. Period.

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Scion Lex Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management Tungsten Dominion 153	Posted - 2014.10.17 23:12:00 - [1] - Quote Yes...this has been brought up before and generally laughed off. I tend to disagree. The reasoning is simple; if it can consume the rock that everything is made from then it should be capable of damaging the final product in some fashion as well. I also think this should ONLY apply to stripminers. Not ice harvesters or anything eles. Next people will bring in absurd notions of being required to over heat, something about area effect gasclounds. Then we will move on to tractoring asteroids into miners and salvagers doing damage to minmatar ships. All utterly, nonesense What is nonesense is that any one with a few million isk to burn can suicide gank a barge and it can't shoot back in any fashion besides drones. If you are watching local and dscanning then you should have to option of unlocking the rock and standing your ground with more than the skiff as an option. This is well short of the notion of moving into questionable territory without a cordon or armed escort. Maybe this needs to be another class of barges, I don't care how its done. I've blown up alot of barges. I would be happy knowing that I would have to land on them in a battlecruiser instead of a imperial navy slicer. I like surprises.
Paranoid Loyd 2289	Posted - 2014.10.17 23:17:00 - [2] - Quote Do asteroids have shields? "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
Scion Lex Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management Tungsten Dominion 153	Posted - 2014.10.17 23:20:00 - [3] - Quote well shields are subject to em, thermal, kinetic and explosive damage. You telling me that a mining laser, in the process of breaking up rock, isn't doing any of those types of damage? Not even one?
Paranoid Loyd 2289	Posted - 2014.10.17 23:22:00 - [4] - Quote Nope, they are mining. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
Scion Lex Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management Tungsten Dominion 153	Posted - 2014.10.17 23:23:00 - [5] - Quote cool, thanks for the troll.
Paranoid Loyd 2289	Posted - 2014.10.17 23:31:00 - [6] - Quote Every bad idea deserves at least one. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
Zmikund Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2014.10.17 23:33:00 - [7] - Quote Actually ... why not? If it would be balanced ... i would love to see roam of procurers melting ships by their mining lasers :-D
Scion Lex Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management Tungsten Dominion 154	Posted - 2014.10.17 23:42:00 - [8] - Quote Why not? firstly, because its troll bait. Most of the time it doesn't get a decent discussion. There is also the idea that CCP doesn't want barges balanced. Barges are a high turnover item. Probably cause they die alot. If they could defend themselves the price would probably rise....which has been happening anyway. Then there is the fact that pvpers pad their numbers with them and love easy kills. Let me ask you this. All that ore sitting in lowsec...whats happening with it? The big alliances that now own all the moons and POCO's haven't started mining in lowsec. Clearly it isn't about force projection. Its the fact that they cannot protect them and they can literally section off space in null for that purpose and get better results. You can't section off lowsec. So the only other option is the barges have to fight....or lowsec will continue to be a relatively untapped resources for obvious and apparent reasons. This is besides the fact that they are simply too soft. The skiff is nice..like I said, but it isn't enough.
Scion Lex Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management Tungsten Dominion 155	Posted - 2014.10.18 00:07:00 - [9] - Quote Moving on... Imho the strip miner would do either kinetic/therm damage or kinetic/explosive depending on how ccp would decide that they actually worked. In the case of kinetic/therm the threat to shields and armor would be roughly equal. With kinetic/jexplosive it would damage armor more than shields...in theory. In order to limit the use of stripminers as a weapon instead of a tool it could be that the barge's cargo bay fills with scrap metal (or some other useless material) and has to be jettisoned. Also using it as a weapon could "damage" the stripminer module similar to overheating while it is doing damage to armor/structure. Meaning they burn out and have be repair with paste....or even in station only. There could also be a skill associated with the amount of damage done to the module or even being able to use it as a weapon at all. When you look at the skiff it can have a passive resist shield tank of around 110kehp. Versus a solo hac can't hold its own....but it can last a pretty long time. As far as I know the mack and hulk don't have that kind of tank. Maybe a drone damage bonus is inorder for those barges. Say for Hulk/covetor and Mack/retrievers only. But I think stripminers doing damage with a balanced mechanic could add a very cool spin to the game.
shimiku Black VooDoo Asassins The Kadeshi 22	Posted - 2014.10.18 01:07:00 - [10] - Quote how is a beam of light going to do kinetic/explosive dmg ? the only thing it can do em/therm and if the stripminers was able to dmg just give them really bad tracking because what does it not tracking for when the main target dont move
Jack Carrigan Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order 3050	Posted - 2014.10.18 01:20:00 - [11] - Quote Dear lord, not this again. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives"-á
Scion Lex Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management Tungsten Dominion 156	Posted - 2014.10.18 01:39:00 - [12] - Quote shimiku wrote: how is a beam of light going to do kinetic/explosive dmg ? the only thing it can do em/therm and if the stripminers was able to dmg just give them really bad tracking because what does it not tracking for when the main target dont move Doesn't really matter. Sure. em/therm meaning it tears down shields faster than armor. Whatever. It comes down to how you choose to decide the module works and what makes it balanced. This keeps coming up as a symptom of the condition of mining barges......still. Yes, improvements have been made. Yet barges are still laughably soft targets. Dying more slowly than you did before does not constitute and improvement in defense. You would have to actually defend (in other words win a fight). Now that the obvious is out of the way we all understand this means doing damage. Outside of that your options are faclons or a dps race between the attacker and the escorts while the miner hopes everyone is paying attention. Not a bad option, but a little much supposing everyone else (explorers, anom runners etc.) can ply their trade for significantly less committed resources with a much higher rate of survivability So if simply adding more tanking isn't the answer....which it isn't, then a dps change is needed for barges. Looking at the apparent vision CCP has been highlighting I don't see how this more accessible New Eden is going to pan out when this ancient issue hasn't been addressed completely. Stripminers doing damage with a balanced mechanic is a viable option and works on existing/similar mechanics already in game.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 6354	Posted - 2014.10.18 01:54:00 - [13] - Quote I fully support this idea. I mean, strip miners should not being doing the damage of a dedicated combat laser, but they should do SOME damage at the very least. Something like a frigate sized laser or something. And tracking should be taken into account too. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 183	Posted - 2014.10.18 02:00:00 - [14] - Quote Combat wise it would have terrible tracking - well, those asteroids are not moving so tracking is a non-issue. But damage should be done along the lines of a large beam laster. So: terrible tracking, large beam laser damage, and only the range of a Strip miner. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 17168	Posted - 2014.10.18 02:14:00 - [15] - Quote Scion Lex wrote: There is also the idea that CCP doesn't want barges balanced. Don't know how you got that idea.. seeing as that they got a really nice balance pass.. then a touch up pass recently.. but then again when it comes to miners, too much is never enough. So yeah, I cant see this idea growing out of control rather quickly. First its "make mah mining lazors do the damages!" then its "make mah lazors do MOAR damages!!!" then its "make mah lazors do Tornado alpha damage!" then itll be "Make mah lazors do XL Blaster damages, and give them teh Bastion module!!!" So within 6 months, we will have 400k ehp barges with 2500dps (50k damage under specialized ORE bastion siege module) with 200 more threads now wanting a buff to their drone bonuses too. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Max Deveron Deveron Shipyards and Technology 51	Posted - 2014.10.18 02:16:00 - [16] - Quote if you look at the strip miner....you can see it is basically firing to small low yield blue beams to 'dig' and larger yellow tractor beam to pull in the dust and chunks that break off. Offensively....you wouldnt want the tractor part operating.....the strips would potentially have low tracking ability maybe on the level of a Batleship gun. Question? Does the effect of turning the tractor part send the unused cap into the digging lasers making them possible to damg a ship? and if that is the case what is the % of the two types? if we say 80% tractor/20% lasers on a t1 strip thats (90 gj) thats 72/18. the closest i could find to 18 GJ was the medium sized laser: Focused Modulated Medium Energy Beam I at 9.336 GJ the closest to 72 GJ would be the Tachyon Afocal Maser I I also think maybe as a balance thing....there should be a module....albeit seeing a barge/exhumer able to go into siege mode might be a dumb idea but a module anyway or something to activate from basically Defensive to Offensive. There is much to think about here....or just leave well enough alone. CCP has a lot of other work to complete on this Game.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 17169	Posted - 2014.10.18 02:18:00 - [17] - Quote Max Deveron wrote: I also think maybe as a balance thing....there should be a module....albeit seeing a barge/exhumer able to go into siege mode might be a dumb idea but a module anyway or something to activate from basically Defensive to Offensive. . ***** called it. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?**
Max Deveron Deveron Shipyards and Technology 51	Posted - 2014.10.18 02:40:00 - [18] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Max Deveron wrote: I also think maybe as a balance thing....there should be a module....albeit seeing a barge/exhumer able to go into siege mode might be a dumb idea but a module anyway or something to activate from basically Defensive to Offensive. . ******* called it. LOL yeah but i meant it as a module that takes up a slot in lieu of antyhing else you might put on there....and all it does is changes your strip miners from a Rock Chewer to a PEW PEW weapon....nothing else....because anything else would most likely be OP.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 17170	Posted - 2014.10.18 02:52:00 - [19] - Quote Max Deveron wrote: LOL yeah but i meant it as a module that takes up a slot in lieu of antyhing else you might put on there....and all it does is changes your strip miners from a Rock Chewer to a PEW PEW weapon....nothing else....because anything else would most likely be OP. But I think youre ignoring the 'Law of Highsec in Regards to Visual Assessment Of Neighboring Grass's Chromacity' where the proposed idea needs upward adjustment regardless of current meta or implementation. Case in point, Op requests "Some damage", Someone proposes "damage equivalent to small lasers", and then someone else (hint hint) proposes "medium laser" levels and a "siege" module. Ron Burgundy wrote: Well. That escalated quickly! And we haven't even gotten to page 2 yet! So you can see how quickly this will go out of control as an idea. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Erqui Thiesant Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.10.18 03:03:00 - [20] - Quote Miners (and strip miners) don't do damage. They're pretty much tractor beams for asteroids.
Max Deveron Deveron Shipyards and Technology 51	Posted - 2014.10.18 03:09:00 - [21] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: ] But I think youre ignoring the 'Law of Highsec in Regards to Visual Assessment Of Neighboring Grass's Chromacity' where the proposed idea needs upward adjustment regardless of current meta or implementation. Case in point, Op requests "Some damage", Someone proposes "damage equivalent to small lasers", and then someone else (hint hint) proposes "medium laser" levels and a "siege" module. Ron Burgundy wrote: Well. That escalated quickly! And we haven't even gotten to page 2 yet! So you can see how quickly this will go out of control as an idea. Yep your right....i was just having fun and have thought about it....we should just trash the idea. However a friend in TS said who wait a minute if strips can damg ships then ship guns need to be able to blow rocks into unuseable space dust right in front of the miners very eyes. I lolled at that one as i next had to prove you can currently shoot them with no ill effects(the rocks)
Bienator II madmen of the skies 2903	Posted - 2014.10.18 03:11:00 - [22] - Quote would be the only weapon which does not require a turret slot. which is kinda problematic unless its changed. Do you really want to give it tracking and falloff etc? eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
Lugh Crow-Slave Guardians of the Morrigan 162	Posted - 2014.10.18 03:25:00 - [23] - Quote Erqui Thiesant wrote: Miners (and strip miners) don't do damage. They're pretty much tractor beams for asteroids. well the melt and break up the rock before pulling it in so they have to be doing at least some. I'm neither for or against this as it won't affect me much but i would love to see the kill mail when a gang of covs hot drop using a titan and kill a carrier
Komi Toran Paragon Trust The Bastion 319	Posted - 2014.10.18 03:40:00 - [24] - Quote Support, simply because I think aggressive actions taken against inanimate objects in High-Sec still generate a CONCORD response. The resulting hilarity on the day after this change is made would be worth it.
Hopelesshobo Tactical Nuclear Penguin's 337	Posted - 2014.10.18 03:49:00 - [25] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: I fully support this idea. I mean, strip miners should not being doing the damage of a dedicated combat laser, but they should do SOME damage at the very least. Something like a frigate sized laser or something. And tracking should be taken into account too. I would actually consider mining if I could wreck an asteroid for a higher yield. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Scion Lex Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management Tungsten Dominion 157	Posted - 2014.10.18 03:50:00 - [26] - Quote stop blowing it out of proportion. As I stated before I think it should do 'some' damage. Tracking would have to be added, duh. Like that tracking needs to be on par with auto cannons or something It doesn't and it wouldn't. This whole idea is out in left field to some degree....but thats only if it is taken there.....which it usually is. When I said that CCP may not want them balanced I was referencing its combat status, not its functional performance as what it is. This is a survivability issue. If you cannot apply damage in a meaningful way in addition to tanking then you can not 'win' a fight. You can evade and that's it. Ultimately, I disagree with the idea that barges should only have the option of running and hiding. Giving them the ability to use their main asset as a weapon is a possible solution based on some justifiable logic; strip miners do 'something' to rocks so why can't they do 'something' to other ships and, thus, address the defense issue. I will let this carry on into the usual depths. You folks enjoy.
elitatwo Congregatio 368	Posted - 2014.10.18 07:21:00 - [27] - Quote Erqui Thiesant wrote: Miners (and strip miners) don't do damage. They're pretty much tractor beams for asteroids. What she said. Poop, she beat me to it. signature
Mag's the united 17998	Posted - 2014.10.18 07:51:00 - [28] - Quote I'm OK with it, as long as we can blow roids up with guns. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Behr Oroo The Circus Corp 92	Posted - 2014.10.18 12:46:00 - [29] - Quote Barges can already use drones. Why not just go simple. No damage from the strip miners. Just increase the drone damage slightly. Basic drones can handle a frig rat and can push away a frig pilot. Just give them a bit of a boost so they can handle slightly larger ships. Other than the Skiff, it's not like they have the tank to hang in a fight anyway.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 1337	Posted - 2014.10.18 12:52:00 - [30] - Quote What about a special cristal for T2 strip miners that would turn the harmless laser into an incredible beam of destruction... for a strip miner at least. With actually very low damages. Procurers and skiffs would get a role bonus for that type of cristal that increases damages by something like 500%. In terms of actual numbers it could do, with a skiff, something like 50-75dps. That wouldn't be OP and it would be fun. Signature Tanking - Best Tanking

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