If I say to a miner "hey come join this corp, you work for us and we give you 500,000 isk for 30 minutes of mining in your low SP new character ship" and they see that their "average value" is 800,000, they say "screw you" because they feel they can profit better from mining and hauling it to market and selling it themselves.

:words:

Yeah CCP. You're making it real hard to screw over our corpmates.

1mil isk per hour? Seriously? **** id pay them 50 to 100 times that to Awox your ***.

Split the hauls isk value evenly with the newbros and stop being a stingy highsec publord.

It makes it even harder to develop a Real and True mining corporation that functions the same as a real life corporation; the menial workers are paid least, the upper management are paid more, and all the rest of the profits go into growing the corporation and expansion.

Nobody notices that this is a troll?


BESIDES the fact that she can't hire a miner into her corp ...
... because she has no corp.

Look at her name ... look at her face ... look at the topic ...
... read the damn text and put it together.


It's a very well executed trolling thread, though.


+1 for that. ^_^

Presumably its a forum alt....try to think a bit before posting, sol.

If I say to a miner "hey come join this corp, you work for us and we give you 500,000 isk for 30 minutes of mining in your low SP new character ship" and they see that their "average value" is 800,000, they say "screw you" because they feel they can profit better from mining and hauling it to market and selling it themselves.

Yeah CCP. You're making it real hard to screw over our corpmates.

1mil isk per hour? Seriously? **** id pay them 50 to 100 times that to Awox your ***.

Split the hauls isk value evenly with the newbros and stop being a stingy highsec publord.

Uh, 1. Why should we be attempted to replicate the trickle down economy when economists all over the worlds are now 'discovering' it's actually a bad idea and stagnates the economy and doesn't actually work.
2. Why shouldn't they know approximately what their goods are worth on the market when there is instant communication across light years.

This all sounds like you just want slave labour and for said slave labour to feel grateful while never progressing.

Soooooo funny. The "menial" workers are paid less 'cause the "more important" workers decide the pay scale. Naturally, they just HAVE to be paid MORE, since they're using MATH and not doing any actual WORK. (Thus proving how truly clever they must be!) The "rest" of the money, the so-called "capital" goes to CEO bonuses. Any "growth" of course comes from government subsidies and loans that will never be paid back. THIS we call "modern day capitalism."

I have no idea what book the OP was reading.

blah-blah, yada-yada.

The opportunity to exploit these so called estimated values is far more profitable than trying to cheat some noobs into working for a pittance.
.

I am a mule miner, it's what I do. Alot. And I'd never join your corp.
Hope you get awoxed.

Good, they're better off. Stop trying to use newbies for your own personal gain, especially on a video game.

This all sounds like you just want slave labour and for said slave labour to feel grateful while never progressing.

Yeah CCP. You're making it real hard to screw over our corpmates.

1mil isk per hour? Seriously? **** id pay them 50 to 100 times that to Awox your ***.

Split the hauls isk value evenly with the newbros and stop being a stingy highsec publord.

Either these people are just being trollish or they're seriously out of touch with mining and hauling as a newbie player and venting their unrealistic indignation.

Would we have any of the modern conviences available to people today without Ford and other such companies? Anyway, you're missing the point.

Excuse yourselves. I do not set up regional 0.01 ISK buy orders on ore or minerals. You talk a lot about exploiting them, but if two people are doing work, why should one person do it for free? I think 50% is more than fair. If someone sell's a weapon module on market after pulling it from a misson run, they're lucky to get 50%. Often it is 0.01 regional buy ISKers who cheat newbies out of it, and where are your anger at them? I don't see you guys up in arms going onto trading alts and spending time making 50%+ regional buy orders for weapon modules, because you can't be assed.


You talk a good talk about being so indignant, but there's so many buy orders for 0.01ISK from minerals and salvage to modules, and you guys haven't spent the time making it so unprofitable for them that they quit. Why would anyone, RL or EveO, buy something at wholesale cost to turn around and sell it at wholesale cost? I think it is you people who are greedy, yet comparing me to some sort of scammer like the aforementioned 0.01 ISkers?! How Dare you!

Im posting in this thread just because. I read the op. and well....... What is your point really? Seriously? They put that in there for people to get a valuation of how much stuff they are carrying around and maybe take a moment to think Maybe I shouldnt haul that much all at once.

Instead of payments and values being dictated by two people selling and buying at some agreed upon amount, or being able to hire miners into a corporation and pay them, this setup showing people what their "value" is completely subverts market trade practices.

If I say to a miner "hey come join this corp, you work for us and we give you 500,000 isk for 30 minutes of mining in your low SP new character ship" and they see that their "average value" is 800,000, they say "screw you" because they feel they can profit better from mining and hauling it to market and selling it themselves.

Instead of payments and values being dictated by two people selling and buying at some agreed upon amount, or being able to hire miners into a corporation and pay them, this setup showing people what their "value" is completely subverts market trade practices.

It makes it even harder to develop a Real and True mining corporation that functions the same as a real life corporation; the menial workers are paid least, the upper management are paid more, and all the rest of the profits go into growing the corporation and expansion.

If I say to a miner "hey come join this corp, you work for us and we give you 500,000 isk for 30 minutes of mining in your low SP new character ship" and they see that their "average value" is 800,000, they say "screw you" because they feel they can profit better from mining and hauling it to market and selling it themselves.

Now, we know a lot of mission runners get fleeced by selling their loot modules for 1-2 ISK when they're worth 10-20k ISK (as defined by the market, not any other metric), but that should be up to people to figure out, and much as I know many traders that are willing to go the extra step of setting a few systems up for buy orders on modules at a reasonable 25-50% of current average market value, it's all still should be in the hands of the two negotiating for the price instead of telling them that "X is worth Y" in a little corner so that they think they should get that every time.

The mining frig also displaced racial mining frigs and racial mining cruisers do to huge ore hold and great mining rate, thereby reducing the reliance of newer players on finding some hauler friends or a corp, and thus propagating a corps growth with a mutual mine/haul/trade-sell agreement.

The more people can do practically everything they want themselves, the smaller corporation margins become, because its difficult to compete with someone who can do it all themselves, as well as other corporations. There were so many old skills and old game mechanics in the past that supported individuals requiring diversity and assistance from joining a corp, and new ships, and trashing certain skills make it less and less worthwhile to create a corp to grow and spread it, let alone join one.

LOL, Ford had to fight the big conglomerates to just get his company off the ground. He made sure he built products that were affordable, and presented his workers the pay they needed to buy those finished goods. He even further went to build a medical facility for them...........

Ole Mr. Henry was a pioneer against monopolies and he treated his people well....better than those who simply wanted slave labor...I think you better check your historical facts....not to mention your obviously not in the same category as he was.

Miners don't pay taxes. Noone likes taxes, especially because it only taxes ratters and mission runners. They look at that as theft or "screwing" them.

0.0 renters actually have a more "taking advantage of" business model, why don't you go complain to them.

I don't really know what to say to this. You don't seem to get it.

But uh oh, here comes enlightened workers, on strike because he's doing very little work himself yet profiting so well compared to the individual worker. Better get out the pitchforks. This is where you come in.

These miners are why CODE was created and should be left to suffer in hisec until they biomass.

Instead of payments and values being dictated by two people selling and buying at some agreed upon amount, or being able to hire miners into a corporation and pay them, this setup showing people what their "value" is completely subverts market trade practices.

It makes it even harder to develop a Real and True mining corporation that functions the same as a real life corporation; the menial workers are paid least, the upper management are paid more, and all the rest of the profits go into growing the corporation and expansion.

Trickle down economics is a lie.

Good, they're better off. Stop trying to use newbies for your own personal gain, especially on a video game.

Okay, are you a floor person in best buy? Go demand equal pay to the CEO and after you get fired from there, go to any other job and demand it. Let's see how long it takes.

Any company in RL is also a symbiotic relationship. That doesn't mean that people higher up and the company itself doesn't make much more than the individuals. Are you trying to tell me that all minimum wage jobs are exploitation? Because if so, please, tell the rest of the world.




How are they not profiting by being paid to do a job?

Maybe you need to investigate some of the issues with your economic model before praising it as being great. With 20% unemployment in the USA alone it should be raising questions about the relative value of middlemen

-snip-

Actually, I'm not sure what all the angst is for here. On the one hand, everyone has to agree that an eve corp or alliance grows only if the members of said organizations contribute freely with donations or other investments. This was so eloquently put in a few posts here and it is a fact which cannot be denied. So what's the difference between corp members grinding their maximum amount of isk via mission, mining, ship production, and then handing over a percentage to the corp as a donation to grow it, and this concept of hiring people into the corporation and frontloading this percentage donation by not paying them the full value of what they produce, and taking the margin made and putting it into growth of the same corp those people are a part of?

It seems like you're both saying these alliances and corps should grow by ISK from it's members, but you vehemently disagree in the form in which this transaction takes. To quote women, "It's not what you said it's how you said it". One side is angry that others bash them for trying to make an eve corp like a 'real life' business, the other side is angry that the first person wants to frontload the isk donations from their members rather than have their members sell stuff on market and then come back later to make a donation to further the corp.

It boggles the mind.

The market decides what things are worth, but if someone sees a little box telling them their stuff is worth X amount, they're going to believe that over someone who's trying to haggle the price downward in order to make better profits. It is essentially a belief trick. They will automatically assume their ore value is worth just that much.

Completely and utterly wrong. The market decides what things are worth, but if someone sees a little box telling them their stuff is worth X amount, they're going to believe that over someone who's trying to haggle the price downward in order to make better profits. It is essentially a belief trick. They will automatically assume their ore value is worth just that much.

It's not about them not knowing what their product is worth. IF you're SOOO concerned about that, stop the regional buy orders on modules that are put up for a literal 0.01 isk, by setting up 50% or 60% or, from the way you act seems to be like thinking a trader should only make 2%, 98% of market value. You talk a good game about fairness but I don't see you taking it upon yourself to give missions runners the "proper" value of trade in your eyes.

If a ceo or small business owner doesn't make any profit from creating that business, what is the point?

Would we have any of the modern conviences available to people today without Ford and other such companies? Anyway, you're missing the point.

Okay, are you a floor person in best buy? Go demand equal pay to the CEO and after you get fired from there, go to any other job and demand it. Let's see how long it takes.

Any company in RL is also a symbiotic relationship. That doesn't mean that people higher up and the company itself doesn't make much more than the individuals. Are you trying to tell me that all minimum wage jobs are exploitation? Because if so, please, tell the rest of the world.




How are they not profiting by being paid to do a job?

Still waiting for the OP to respond to the basic question:

Why would anyone want to work for less than they can make on their own?

Your business model is so glaringly obvious and terrible; that is the real problem. You lack basic math skills, lack vision, lack a basic understanding of economics, and lack decency. That is why no one wants to work for you. It has nothing to do with a number on the screen.

Fallacy, hearsay, herrings, ad homs, and all.

If the fat cats were spending all the money they "earn" instead of hoarding it, it would not be as bad. Still bad but a little less imo.

Fallacy, hearsay, herrings, ad homs, and all.

Let's see if I can get you to understand from another angle. People that strated Eve a long time ago have built up so much ISk that it's essentially throw away for them. What happens is that they then decide through either honest self delusion or through really wanting to harm new players' ability to make ISK, these older players decide they want to start producing ships at cost just out of their own selfessness and fluffy butterflies and all that crap, which essentially means they drive down the prices, and newer players have neither the resources nor the built up capital to compete. Older players will keep ship prices so low that only mission runners can extricate themselves from poverty. Everyone else can't make any profit through trade and bartering, and using the market system. Think this is far fetched?




hey now, no talking bad about Ford's business practices, even if they DO coincide with my statements that the capitalist corporation or business owner has to make more for his business and himself than paying his employees cause otherwise making the business would be a pointless charity and no payout or gain for the owner.

Your fallacy is the greatest one of all, though. EVE isn't a job. Expecting people to work for you in a video game, that's an awoxing.