I have one very real question:
"why are the new third teir Battlecruisers that are cappable of firing Battleship weapons, made of paper?"
Seriously, change the name, skill requirements and call these "T2 destroyers".
based on what I read about the blaster tweak/rebalance, who in the hell is going to equip a nagga with 'blasters'?
Missiles are the caldari racial weapon, so why is the naga a BLASTER BOAT?
you can not speed tank in a BC with an orbit under 75km-
too many ships will neut,disrupt, web, the stuffing out of you if you try it.


I am not going to buy a ship that can't survive one volley from a MACHARIEL!
(by the way 14K+ volley damage at 146 KM is just awesome,
Especially when you tack on how tough a mach is compared to these new BC's)
I am not going to buy a ship that can be torn apart by a dramiel!
I want to ba ble to stand a fricking chance against a LOKI....

I am not lining up to buy plex to buy and fit one of these "t2 destroyers".

there is a massive balance problem right now. that being pirate faction ships.
can the empires get a clue, and reverse engineer some of these things?

I mean, holly hell! with a set of Halo implants the dramiel has a 27 signature, a POD has 25 signature!
comparing the pod to a dramiel,, and then using the same ratios to improve every ship in the game would be NICE!

*blink* blink* this is wierd. make your sigg bigger- I can't hear you, and post twice sum moar plz, kthnx

I know this is the EVE forums and all, but why do so many people make a thread asking for answers then whine and complain when people disagree with them, making themselves look like collosal idiots?

Because this is the internet. People don't want discussions they just want to hear yes-men agreeing with them.

yes I did.

anywho, let's play your game: how would you adapt a tengu to waltz through repeated 14k+ volley damage?
what if your not able to run, for some damn reason or another? how would you people do it?
Many of you claim to be smart, show me how and I'll GTFO+ STFU+ L2P.

why are SB glass cannons?

learn my ship's role and applicable tactics?

Very good young padawan

I was replying to the poster whoese signature is ascII faces, rows and rows of it.
I don't look for yes men. I just hope for more than snide insults and put downs.

I agree that these new BC ships will be great at something, that something is being popped.

I agree that the mach is expensive and does it's job well,
I agree that.... ships have roles and team work is the point of most online games.
I agree...

crap. people.


I guess I get to stay right where I am.

Because this is the internet. People don't want discussions they just want to hear yes-men agreeing with them.

any ideas on where I should go looking for my schooling?

I have one very real question:
"why are the new third teir Battlecruisers that are cappable of firing Battleship weapons, made of paper?"
.......

Okay I'm going to try to get this post right the first time.

The role of a Tier 3 battlecruiser appears to be a fleet support ship. It has high damage output, but requires a fleet to defend it to be effective. In effect, it's a subcapital supercapital (or a subcapital post-Crucible supercapital). This is quite simply Perfectly Fine. If it could fit a heavy tank in addition to its battleship-size weapons, it would effectively become a low-end battleship rather than a specialty battlecruiser.

The new Tier 3 BC's are not "intended" to do anything by CCP. Their high DPS is simply balanced by lack of tank and their design is an experiment. What they get used for is entirely up to the players. I don't think anybody really knows yet what they will be best for - but the Jita undock is likely to see quite a few of them.

I have one very real question:
"why are the new third teir Battlecruisers that are cappable of firing Battleship weapons, made of paper?"
Seriously, change the name, skill requirements and call these "T2 destroyers".

based on what I read about the blaster tweak/rebalance, who in the hell is going to equip a nagga with 'blasters'? Missiles are the caldari racial weapon, so why is the naga a BLASTER BOAT?

I am not lining up to buy plex to buy and fit one of these "t2 destroyers".

there is a massive balance problem right now. that being pirate faction ships.
can the empires get a clue, and reverse engineer some of these things?

I mean, holly hell! with a set of Halo implants the dramiel has a 27 signature, a POD has 25 signature!
comparing the pod to a dramiel,, and then using the same ratios to improve every ship in the game would be NICE!

OP is right actually. Well, at least at some points.
My point of view is those ships is a waste of time and money:

- DPS is done with BS sized guns. Which means they can't hit well targets up to the cruiser size.
- No Drones except Talos. Which means every ship that is smaller then a cruiser can eat you alive.
- No Tank or very little. Well I actually don't mind that. Glass cannon should have low HP, but high utility and versatility, sadly those BCs don't have utility nor versatility.
- The price is too high. t1 BS might cost you less. If I was to choose between t3 BC and t1 BS I'd take Phoon or Domi for sure. Those BCs can't compare to them.
- Making a PvP ship only is a fail. 80% of this game is about PvE. Carebears and others outnumber everything.
- The role of those ships itself is a bit useless and can be replaced with another ship type easily.

- Making a PvP ship only is a fail. 80% of this game is about PvE. Carebears and others outnumber everything.

I have one very real question:
"why are the new third teir Battlecruisers that are cappable of firing Battleship weapons, made of paper?"

just imagine, how I felt.
la la la, I have earned a tengu!
la la la, let's explore low sec...

I fitt HAMS, max range with all the bells and whistles: 47 KM.

146 km a mach fires.... booms!

12 KM to the gate,
who do you think will win?

just imagine, how I felt.
la la la, I have earned a tengu!
la la la, let's explore low sec...

I fitt HAMS, max range with all the bells and whistles: 47 KM.

146 km a mach fires.... booms!

12 KM to the gate,
who do you think will win?

My understanding is that the new Tier 3 BC are intended for a specific purpose, which is an effective weapon against capital ship dominated fleets. This encourages diversity of fleet compositions, since a good FC will have to consider a counter to the possibility of bumping into a fleet with a healthy compliment of Tier 3 BCs.

Respectfully, I don't believe that the intention was to create a new FOTM solo mission ship and I guess that having a 'glass tank' prevents this. I like the look of the Tornado but I'll probably be sticking with my Hurricane for solo/small gang roams.

I have one very real question:
"why are the new third teir Battlecruisers that are cappable of firing Battleship weapons, made of paper?"
...

They're meant to be "all gank and no tank," otherwise they'd outclass Abaddons and Maelstroms (nobody flies Rokhs and Hyperions)

- DPS is done with BS sized guns. Which means they can't hit well targets up to the cruiser size.
- No Drones except Talos. Which means every ship that is smaller then a cruiser can eat you alive.
- No Tank or very little. Well I actually don't mind that. Glass cannon should have low HP, but high utility and versatility, sadly those BCs don't have utility nor versatility.
- The price is too high. t1 BS might cost you less. If I was to choose between t3 BC and t1 BS I'd take Phoon or Domi for sure. Those BCs can't compare to them.
- Making a PvP ship only is a fail. 80% of this game is about PvE. Carebears and others outnumber everything.
- The role of those ships itself is a bit useless and can be replaced with another ship type easily.

All of these are either good things, or just wrong.

The Tier-3 BCs are the only proper BCs in the game, and aside from the Talos having drones, are pretty darn well designed form a conceptual standpoint. As for the Carebears, they have no need for any new ships, so why on earth would you waste valuable development time on something as pointless as that?

Imagine every CCPs new content were made for non-carebears.

As for me, I'm going to fit Thrasher or Dramiel after expansion kicks in and go ganking those new BCs with a few buddies.

Drivel, lots of drivel

- Making a PvP ship only is a fail. 80% of this game is about PvE. Carebears and others outnumber everything.

- DPS is done with BS sized guns. Which means they can't hit well targets up to the cruiser size.
- No Drones except Talos. Which means every ship that is smaller then a cruiser can eat you alive.

- No Tank or very little. Well I actually don't mind that. Glass cannon should have low HP, but high utility and versatility, sadly
those BCs don't have utility nor versatility.

- The price is too high. t1 BS might cost you less. If I was to choose between t3 BC and t1 BS I'd take Phoon or Domi for sure. Those BCs can't compare to them.

- Making a PvP ship only is a fail. 80% of this game is about PvE. Carebears and others outnumber everything.

As for me, I'm going to fit Thrasher or Dramiel after expansion kicks in and go ganking those new BCs with a few buddies.
I only see Talos fits good in a small roaming gangs. Because sniping doesn't work well in this type of a gang.

OP, using a ship that falls into the "glass cannon" category requires a very different mind set and tactics than flying a heavy tank. You always need to be mindful of when your targets attention shifts to you and be ready to reposition quickly if your speed/traversal/range is not sufficient to keep you intact.

Your primary tenant is to hit hard and fast, get out quickly when necessary (so don't get tackled), and get back in to apply that massive damage again as quickly as possible. You must maintain a much higher level of situational awareness then most heavy tank pilots do.

It's not everyone's preference, but can be quite enjoyable once you get the hang of it. Ask any SB pilot.

More power to you. Small, fast moving ships are indeed the Achilles Heel of these ships.

However, you should probably figure out what you going to do about HIS buddies insta-popping you from 25km's out while you are getting your gank on. All that these ships need do to be effective is stay out of point range... whether that is 25km's or 100kms depending on fit.

Get back to us in a couple of months and let us know how that works out for you. Who knows, once you figure out what you are doing perhaps there will be a future for you in small gang combat.

True. No matter how good destroyers will be at dps, they still are a paper and pop up very fast.
Actually by Thasher I meant Sabre since no one flys real Thrasher, at least not in my corp. Was my bad.

.

Imagine every CCPs new content were made for non-carebears. In other words every expansion they get nothing to play with.
How many will be here to stay? What will be when every carebear leaves?
My guess there will be 3000-5000 people online at prime time. Eventually with no money support game might die.

Yes, I'm being very dramatic here.
But still it's very sad when new stuff comes in and there is nothing for you in it.

a 1400 fit mach with extras to boost gunnery will eat damn nearly anything alive.
146 KM, 14K+ volley damage.
.

they sound like they will be good vs super caps to me... good dmg low sig radius so fighters and titan XL guns cant hit.

CCP has stated that the new tier 3 battlecruisers are intended to be highly mobile (harder to hit than a battleship) snipers.

Facing-off against one at close range is not their intended use.

Facing-off with say 10 to 200 of them at 100 km (out of short-range optimal, and too close to warp), which the Naga excels at with railguns, is gonna make for some interesting battles.

Uh, a blaster Talos is in no way a sniper.

EDIT 01 (07/11): general ship roles/web bonus removal from Talos explanation is available here.

EDIT 02 (07/11): more info on page 11.

EDIT 03 (14/11): even more info on page 22.

sniper fleets are making a comebahahahahahaha

Many of you claim to be smart, show me how and I'll GTFO+ STFU+ L2P.

What do you guys think about using the Tornado for vanguard sites?

It has 55.9K EHP fit with:
2x Invuln II
1x Photon II
2x LSE
2x Defense Field Extender
1x Anti-Therm Screen II

With 76, 72, 73, 77 resists. Coupled with a sig radius of 248 and a speed of 281 m/s.

The recommended Hurricane fit has 59K EHP with same resists, 290 sig, 206 m/s.

So.... Tornado should hold up fine yes?

Ultimately, these new ships are fail. an extremely, super, massive one at that...
Hey I made a new word. "FAIL-HOLE". A "fail-hole" for when fail is so Supermassive it sucks up completely any belief in the existance of intelligent humans.

Uhh am I the only on who's thinking "Why didnt the tengu warp away?"

will it be possible to solo level 4 missions with these? or maybe some easy level wormholes? (no idea how difficult wormholes are)

also how expensive will these new BCs be roughly?

I have one very real question:
"why are the new third teir Battlecruisers that are cappable of firing Battleship weapons, made of paper?"