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Etheoma
Yarrfleet
4
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was there raging against incarna, but 2 - 3 years ago I couldn't wait for walking in stations.
What changed, well first things first they had spend x amount of time on it and when it was brought out you could only get into captains quarters. But that wasn't even the main sticking point for me. I think so many things in the current game need to be improved / fixed that going along and releasing another massive feature was in my mind a mistake.
I know I'm just re hashing what people have said so far, but what I want to add is that if CCP keeps to making miner expansions leaning more towards improving the day to day operations in eve making things more simple for new players while also keeping depth for current players and making the life easier, I can pretty much guarantee that it would bring in more players than incarna.
if they trundle along with incarna while improving the day to day operations at a faster rate in a year or maybe 2 I would love to see incarna fulling implemented, and I cant see there being a great number of people that would be against adding a new depth to the game.
But if you are against incarna hole heatedly; think that more players means more money for CCP and incarna can bring eve to a larger market which means they have more money to spend on what you want to happen in eve.
although they may have already done the lion's share of the work on incarna and it may just be best to bring it out, but at least in hindsight it would have been better if they had produced it more slowly and released it when it was fully ready.
But thumbs up for the new expansion, its a step in the right direction and I hope you keep it up. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
374
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
I did not hate the concept ... I hated the execution.
Today I lost my common sense,
It slipped away between Amamake and Rens,
I think it happened in highsec,
Using a Brutix to gank a Providence.
-- Flunk |
Etheoma
Yarrfleet
4
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:I did not hate the concept ... I hated the execution.
yeah for one getting ride of hanger view but that's been fixed so happy days. |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
50
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spending several years being promised that something awesome will soon be delivered to your table, only to receive a pile of poop on a plate will anger just about any customer. |
Bischopt
Ice Fire Warriors
18
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Incarna was nothing more than a platform for nex. They needed money so they released a half finished, pointless feature and hoped nobody would notice how bad it is. |
Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
53
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:Who actually hates the concept of Incarna?
2 "bitter vets" |
Molly Molotov
Sunshine In A Cup
11
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
It was almost the worst execution possible and one of the key concepts, customizing your character, they ruined. In the days and weeks leading up to it's deployment the forums were abuzz with talk of monocles and canes (at least MD) eye patches in C&P opporating on the assumption that these would be so cheap and available (in varying degrees) that they could plausibly be destructible. Then... CCP made them cost hundreds of million to over a billion ISK? Then they gave us nothing to do in stations and no way to see each other? The end result was being forced into a tiny cell (if your computer worked at this point) staring at like 5 extrodinarily over priced pieces of internet clothes... Everyone who had any involvement in any of that is ******* ********, no one can get out of it, that is the most ******** implementations I've ever seen and a complete bastardization of the WiS concept. |
Solhild
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
91
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'd like Spaceships & Incarna & whatever else to be one vast high quality compelling world that I can access superficially or spend days on end in extended operations into unknown space etc. I want to be able to build a small habitat out on the frontier, or control a city on a hisec planet.
It goes without saying that all elements of the game should work, be maintained and iterated on.
Remember that we still haven't seen Incarna and the NeX store is really another matter all together. |
Etheoma
Yarrfleet
4
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Molly Molotov wrote:It was almost the worst execution possible and one of the key concepts, customizing your character, they ruined. In the days and weeks leading up to it's deployment the forums were abuzz with talk of monocles and canes (at least MD) eye patches in C&P opporating on the assumption that these would be so cheap and available (in varying degrees) that they could plausibly be destructible. Then... CCP made them cost hundreds of million to over a billion ISK? Then they gave us nothing to do in stations and no way to see each other? The end result was being forced into a tiny cell (if your computer worked at this point) staring at like 5 extrodinarily over priced pieces of internet clothes... Everyone who had any involvement in any of that is ******* ********, no one can get out of it, that is the most ******** implementations I've ever seen and a complete bastardization of the WiS concept.
there was a good reason for only allowing you to have a room to your own and making it mandatory so they could collect information on how it worked on a varying computers, on a regular basis.
yeah the monocles and stuff are **** no doubt
but I was actually saying the concept of incarna isn't bad, and something we would want to see in the future. |
Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries
95
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
I don't hate the concept of Incarna. I hate that there wasn't any concept to begin with.
CCP should have asked themselves: What could we offer the players that they want to leave their pod?
What new kinds of gameplay could we implement?
3d avatars are just tools, but without any purpose at all even the best tools are worthless.
...THEN WHO WAS PHOON? |
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Liam Mirren
11
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't dislike incarna, I actually welcome it, but not at the expense of core gameplay. Once core gameplay is taken care of and in good shape they can waste as much time&effort as they want on other stuff.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. |
Generals4
Caldari State
367
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Personally i love the concept but like someone else said the execution was horrible. We were promised in station interactions and what not and all we got was one CQ in which you are alone 24/7. If they would have at least been able to release all 4 CQ's i think people wouldn't have hated it so much.
But i would also like to add releasing incarna at the cost of dropping development of everything else isn't what i want either. I also want FiS to be worked on. (and ironically Crucible does just that, fix FiS and adds WiS content)
-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Molly Molotov
Sunshine In A Cup
11
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Posted - 2011.11.26 10:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
As far as I know the Incarna engine is defunct and was at launch and any WiS we'll be getting in the future will be a completely new project. Please, tell me if I'm wrong. But I believe that's part of the reason WoD is also on semi-permanent hold as they were both based on the same engine. The problem being rendering multiple characters in an environment. Which, if true just sort of makes lashing out on the player base and finally having to fire a large segment of their workforce look a bit silly.
But if I'm not understanding correctly, tell me. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
458
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Posted - 2011.11.26 11:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
The concept of Incarna is fantastic and I have been looking forward to the implementation of it since first announced over three years ago.
Much like Poetic Stanziel said above though, the execution sucked balls. I think the release was rushed and definitely incomplete.
What I'm hoping is that now that the space whiners are getting their little paper-cut expansion, CCP will put some effort into updating WIS with some sort of content for release in the near future.
Fingers crossed.
Mr Epeen 
If you can read this, you haven't blocked me yet. |
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
134
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Posted - 2011.11.26 11:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:Incarna was nothing more than a platform for nex. They needed money so they released a half finished, pointless feature and hoped nobody would notice how bad it is.
It's certainly difficult to view it as anything else in light of CCP funding 3 projects on the back of EVE and with a large loan repayment due as well. Sadly CCP payed the price for their lack understanding of what the playerbase would tolerate with an 8% sub drop and also having to layoff 20% of their employees as a subsequence.
The concept of Incarna was fine when it was Ambulation, but it seems marketing and microtransaction 'experts' thought the EVE playerbase were akin to WoW or f2P game players where they would accept any garbage thrown at them. Removing meaningful content that we saw in Ambulation just to implement the NeX was a poor decision by CCP and did nothing to endear Incarna to the players.
I for one was actually looking forward to WiS after seeing the Ambulation videos, etc, but if it just means further saturation of that NeX **** instead of meaningful gameplay then I have no interest in it at all.
Really the NeX store should receive the headshot it deserves and put those items back in the players hands via industry and through LP rewards where they should be. Give players more diversity, not less.
CCP themselves also fostered alot of angst against Incarna (WiS) by virtually ignoring FiS, which is pretty stupid considering that is the core of the game.
Nex (Cash Shop)-á/ Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna.
Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future. |
Marcus Wilde
Meat Shields
11
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Posted - 2011.11.26 11:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
I like the concept, but unless there's actually something exicting to do in stations like FPS or something like that, its just gonna be boring as hell, regardless of how cool it looks.
Tears + Bucket = Win |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
1251
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Posted - 2011.11.26 11:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:I did not hate the concept ... I hated the execution.
This. It was the gigantic amount of development resources wasted on producing zero gameplay that made me angry. If they'd used those resources to produce an environment where I could actually do stuff, then I'd be delighted with Incarna.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Alexandros Balfros
Liberty Rogues
3
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Posted - 2011.11.26 11:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
I don't "hate" incarna, i just don't see it as required, we have survived for many years without ever having the need to walk anywhere, i don't perticularly think the people who are demanding WIS actually play the game or they would realise that walking has no real place in EVE other than something to do while being camped in a station, in which case alt-tab and play something else :P |
Kymara
Gilded Goose Brokerage
0
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Posted - 2011.11.26 11:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
I do.
It's a epic spaceschip simulation game, not another ******* fairy-hopping-through-the-grass siumulation game.
If you want to dress up, go to any of the other MMO's out there.
But, $ being king, there's no turning back. 95% of the market wants to play dress-up-doll, then that's what the market gets. |
Rixiu
North Star Networks
The Kadeshi
22
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Posted - 2011.11.26 11:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
There wasn't even a concept, at most there was an idea like "Let's do this, we don't know exactly how to do it but it sounds cool!".
I'm sure that one day we'll see more incarna but I hope that CCP takes this time while working on spaceships to also think about exactly what they want to do and how to make incarna more seamless and more of an addition to the EVE rather than a glorified disconnected barbie-viewer. |
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Nathan Jameson
Talocan Dominion
Talocan United
96
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Posted - 2011.11.26 11:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
The original concept was to increase immersion, by allowing the player to put an avatar of himself directly into the game.
Incarna didn't. In fact, it literally did nothing at all. As such, there was no reason to find the expansion as anything but a waste of developer and customer time.
Here's hoping they eventually develop it into the Babylon-5-esque environment they were originally shooting for. |
Etheoma
Yarrfleet
4
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Posted - 2011.11.26 11:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kymara wrote:I do.
It's a epic spaceschip simulation game, not another ******* fairy-hopping-through-the-grass siumulation game.
If you want to dress up, go to any of the other MMO's out there.
But, $ being king, there's no turning back. 95% of the market wants to play dress-up-doll, then that's what the market gets.
I think your oversimplifying things a little, people like to play speak etc face to face and when that's not possible a virtual representation is more personal than a name, a picture and a ship Incarna hasnt yet delivered on this because its basically still in development, people keep saying oh incarna is useless... ITS IN THE GAME FOR TESTING PROPOSES, now you could argue that they should keep it on the test server but then you wouldn't get as many people testing to see if it actually works on most computers.
Personally I'm happy with the way things are now but I couldn't argue that having avatar's that can walk around etc opens up the market, also with walking in stations it enables you to add more stuff into the game stuff that would be un-immersive if you did it in space. |
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Care Factor
21
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Posted - 2011.11.26 12:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
The concept was amazing... It still is amazing.
The problem is that somewhere between the idea and the final product delivered there was a huge mistake made by a developer who decided to make virtual clothing more expensive than real clothing. Not to mention the plan of releasing the product not only half-done, but practically not done at all. I remember seing a clip of walking in a station, walking into a bar and actually playing a game with someone? A minigame? Not only I can't see that happening now, but any time soon...
CCP did the exact same thing BF3 developers did... They released a product with a load of bugs, mistakes and totally wrong ideas without actually listening to the feedback of players (beta players in bf3 case). The thing is, that in bf3 the fix is coming at the beginning of December this year (a week, maybe two at worst). In CCPs case we've waited half a year to get still only a tiny portion of the promissed content and with no estimated date of getting the full product.
People like dates, but only those dates that are more or less kept. People don't like being hung in empty space. Especially with no possibility of using a warp drive.
"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976 |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
78
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Posted - 2011.11.26 12:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
I've got no issues with the concept, might very be fun one day.
But I had a lot of issues of it being forced upon us in such a pre-alpha state.
And actually, I've got no issues with NeX, I just don't use it. |
Halcyon Ingenium
The Randomites
30
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Posted - 2011.11.26 12:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
I have no problem with Incarna, or NeX, or any of it. I just don't want to leave my pod. I don't care if others do, I just don't want to. It wasn't much to ask and I'm glad that they finally delivered on such a simple request.
People say things like: "Oh, you make so much money. What do you need any more for?"
Well, actually, *****, I never asked for your opinion. I'll let you know when I have enough money.
-Gene Simmons |
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2011.11.26 13:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thing is, the concept for Incarna wasn't the concept just for Incarna, it was Eve's general concept. A complete Sci-fi universe, and one I was and still am behind.
The execution was terrible though. 1 CQ, Forced CQ, no actual flying content, the terrible new non-icons for turrets, poor performance....etc..
However, the biggest thing about the Incarna expansion for me was the lies from CCP.
A number of high up devs (one might have been Soundwave) promised that CQ would not only be completely optional, but wouldn't be implemented if it reduced functionality or TimeToKill.
Going from ~5 seconds to load up the hanger to nearly 20 to load up CQ was a massive faux pas, and completely against the aforementioned promise. Especially in light of some people wanting to dock just to repair/dump loot etc... It also removed lots of handy functions, notably the right click menu on the ship, or the drag and drop abilities.
Then we have the NEX store.
Recorded statements from last June saying CCP had no plans for RMT, previous April Fools jokes with the CEO mocking RMT and Free-to-play, then suddently, "hi guys, new currency and RMT!", when it was pretty obvious it was not only incompatible with Eve's subscription model, completely against the sandbox and player run economy which is one of the big points that makes Eve a success, but also against the wishes of the vast majority of the playerbase (and one of the reasons they played EVE was that it didn't have RMT).
Then to top it off not only were the items priced out of the market, a decision was made to go against one of Eve's core principles: Everything you own can be destroyed and space is brutal.
That, outside of RMT being in game in the first place, is the biggest sin of the entire NEX concept.
And then we had all the bullshit afterwards. Like the $1000 pair of jeans rubbish. Gold Scorps and the rest of it. |
Cybele Lanier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2011.11.26 13:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Etheoma wrote:I think your oversimplifying things a little, people like to play speak etc face to face and when that's not possible a virtual representation is more personal than a name, a picture and a ship Incarna hasnt yet delivered on this because its basically still in development, people keep saying oh incarna is useless... ITS IN THE GAME FOR TESTING PROPOSES, now you could argue that they should keep it on the test server but then you wouldn't get as many people testing to see if it actually works on most computers. .
Which is fine, but then don't sell it as the central point of a whole expansion. And don't force your audience to test it even if their computers can't handle it.
I liked the idea of being able to wander around in the flesh, see the different station environments, chat to people in person and have things I owned represented in 3d*. But right now, it seems they aimed far too high on what people's computers could handle and now it looks like we'll have to wait until a multi-character environment can be made without PC's going aargh and dying. And given the record on developing features after the first bit fanfare, WIS will stay as it is, and be one more underdeveloped feature thrown onto a large pile of stuff that has languished for years.
(Prove me wrong on that, please.)
Dr Karsun wrote:The problem is that somewhere between the idea and the final product delivered there was a huge mistake made by a developer who decided to make virtual clothing more expensive than real clothing.
Not to mention, a lot of the clothing is just plain drab. Someone really needs to tell the clothing designers that it's okay to use colours other than black or grey! Where are the "semi-opaque plastic & taffeta" Gallente outfits or the barbed-wire Minmatar hair accessory from the old chargen? Things that were eyecatching, distinctive and futuristic looking.
* I'm still holding out for frozen corpses being represented as heads mounted on your wall. |
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
109
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Posted - 2011.11.26 13:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
I don't hate Incarna, the execution was flawed and incomplete but the concept behind, is great, making EVE into the ultimate sci-fi experience.
Look at the Singularity , or wait for tuesday and you will see the stunning artwork with the new CQ. That and multiplayer content should have been included from the very beginning. |
Mocam
EVE University
Ivy League
60
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Posted - 2011.11.26 13:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
When it was announced, I went "oh boy, next will be the naked dancing blue elves on tables - like WoW". Not something I'm into.
I consoled myself that it would be optional and I wouldn't have to go into those stations and see all the male avatars running around in wedding dresses nor the female avatars doing table dances, etc...
Then they removed the ship spinning and forced me into a single room and said "we'll give you the rest soon..." With a big fat RMT store stuck in there for me to buy cut-out barbie clothing for my char - jammed in my face.
If I wanted barbie dolls in space, I'd have signed up for that in an avatar driven game but I didn't. I don't want that crap stuck in my face, etc.
I don't "hate" it any more than I hate mining or other such activities I'm not really into in this game. If I don't want to watch ships shooting rocks with lasers, I don't have to and if I don't want barbie and ken dressup, I really don't think I should be stuck with that cra... err, "part of the game" either.
It is part of the game and there are those that want to get involved in it. Good for them and I hope CCP gives them a nice bunch of outfits to dress their dollies up with.
Just don't make me have to participate in it and I'll be glad to mutter about them "fixing" that side instead of what I want, just like other parts of the game and it looks like they might be listening. I get my ship spinning back, without having to go into that captains quarters so I'm a happy camper.
Again, for my part: I"m not hateful of what they want to put in. I just want that to remain optional - leaving me with my spaceship game and let others do whatever the hell they want dancing and prancing around in stations. |
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
49
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Posted - 2011.11.26 13:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mocam wrote:When it was announced, I went "oh boy, next will be the naked dancing blue elves on tables - like WoW". Not something I'm into.
Thankfully none of the races in EVE is blue, nor elves. So we won't see any of that nonesence.
As many have said before. The concept is cool. The execution could been better.
Someone earlier said that people like dates more than promises. Personally I like truths more than dates.
I would have no problem waiting some more if CCP had gone out and said that we will launch this in full when its ready, not on "x" day. For the moment we give you this as a preview of whats to come and a way for us to test performances. |
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