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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.18 22:43:00 -
[1]
Lets say I have a Tempest, and I attack my opponent who has an Ibis defending. He's a moron and doesn't withdraw. I have an Insurance Fraud in play. Does my Tempest earn my 13 ISK when it shoots the Ibis, or 1 ISK?
Personally I cant see any reason why I wouldnt gain 13, but it's just a question of intent, since someone asked me it tonight and people like to see official rulings to clarify things :)
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Joshua Nighthawk
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Posted - 2006.08.19 00:22:00 -
[2]
What's the exact text on Insurance Fraud?
You would only gain the 1 ISK, as you only dealt 1 damage to the ship. Any damage after that is extra, and does nothing
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Faya
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Posted - 2006.08.19 08:39:00 -
[3]
As a slightly related question, can you redirect 20 damage to a guardian or does it die after 6 ?
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Fretegir
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Posted - 2006.08.19 12:07:00 -
[4]
Rule book says al damage happens at the same time so ibis gets 13 damage and then dies.
So in my interpretation of teh rule you get 13 ISK
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.20 22:15:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Faya
As a slightly related question, can you redirect 20 damage to a guardian or does it die after 6 ?
Im pondering this, too. As far as I can see, you can use the ability over and over in reaction to itself, so all of the effects go on to the pile before the damage resolves. Then you end up with the Guardian redirecting everything to it. As far as I'm concerned, though, that's clearly not the way it's intended to work. And it's possible that it could be interpreted that once the first 6 points of damage resolve, further redirections, even though they're already on the pile, are cancelled because the Guardian is no longer in play.
Needs an official clarification for sure. So does the Insurance Fraud question, though im fairly certain of the answer to that.
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Kaemonn
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.08.21 03:44:00 -
[6]
The instant any ship hits 0 shield it is destroyed. As for the Tempest, Id would have to say, once the Ibis hits 0 (one damage) its dead, so the extra 12 damage doesnt do anything.(ships can't have negative shields)
As for the Guardian, once you redirect 6 damage, unless it has some modifier on it, it is destroyed.
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Immy woz Here  |
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.21 09:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kaemonn
The instant any ship hits 0 shield it is destroyed.
Yes, but according to the rules, the ship deals damage equal to it's attack value; nowhere is it stated that it deals less if the ship it shoots has less shields. The extra 12 damage indeed doesnt do anything, but it is still damage, and hence should count for insurance fraud. Just needs a clarification from a rules guy is all.
Quote:
As for the Guardian, once you redirect 6 damage, unless it has some modifier on it, it is destroyed.
I dont think you quite understood the question of timing - it is obviously destroyed when the 6 damage hits it, but you can stack as many redirections as you like because it's a 0 cost ability. As far as I'm concerned once the 6th damage point *resolves*, then the Guardian dies and the pending redirections would be cancelled, or at least that seems to be the intention; although it could be interpreted deifferently in that the pending damage is simply all applied to the Guardian at once and it can therefore entirely negate a single round's worth of damage.
Again, this needs a clarification.
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Tallest
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Posted - 2006.08.21 10:42:00 -
[8]
Let's take a look at what the rulebook says about the damage dealing step of the battle phase...
"All ships deal damage simultaneously to their designated targets. If a ship receives damage that is equal to or greater than its shield, the ship is destroyed and placed on its owner’s scrapheap."
Since all the damage is dealt at the same time, the Guardian is able to redirect all the damage to itself, not just the first 6.
It also makes it clear that a ship can take damage greater than its shield. This means that the Tempest deals 13 damage to the Ibis.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.21 10:47:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 21/08/2006 10:48:16
Well, strictly in the letter of the rules both of those seemed fine to me.
However - a Guardian can redirect all of the damage from a battle to itself, in addition to being immune to battle damage - do you not think these two extremely strong (understatement, really) abilities make this card clearly in need of errata?
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Qual
Gallente
XanCom
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Posted - 2006.08.21 13:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 21/08/2006 10:48:16
Well, strictly in the letter of the rules both of those seemed fine to me.
However - a Guardian can redirect all of the damage from a battle to itself, in addition to being immune to battle damage - do you not think these two extremely strong (understatement, really) abilities make this card clearly in need of errata?
Guardian s NOT immune to damage it redirects to itself from other ships. Just direct damage done to it by other ships.
"The short version: Qual is right." - Papa Smurf |
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.21 13:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Qual
Guardian s NOT immune to damage it redirects to itself from other ships. Just direct damage done to it by other ships.
Im aware of that. However, an incredibly powerful immunity, AND an incredible battle ability that pretty much guarantees a win in most battles, are both individually verging on broken; the two on one card is truly ridiculous.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.08.22 00:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: Qual
Guardian s NOT immune to damage it redirects to itself from other ships. Just direct damage done to it by other ships.
Im aware of that. However, an incredibly powerful immunity, AND an incredible battle ability that pretty much guarantees a win in most battles, are both individually verging on broken; the two on one card is truly ridiculous.
That's why you play a card to kill off the guardian at the start of the fight.
Altho if you're defending, a Sisters of EVE and Onerios(or 2) tends to make a guardian look like nothing.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.22 07:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
That's why you play a card to kill off the guardian at the start of the fight.
Altho if you're defending, a Sisters of EVE and Onerios(or 2) tends to make a guardian look like nothing.
It's all well and good saying 'just kill the Guardian', but when it's played in the deck with the most anti-news cards in the game, that's not as easy as it sounds. In addition to which, if your entire strategy has to focus around killing one card or losing the game, then it's actually following the very definition of 'broken' in a card game.
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