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Win 98 not supported as of Tuesday?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Colette Reynard Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.20 00:35:00 - [1] Guess I have to say goodbye then. I still run 98SE, and eve has always worked fine for me. No crashes, very very few lockups, etc. But now CCP says as of tuesday Eve will no longer run on my machine. This is a new experience. I don't think I've ever been told to foxtrot oscar quite so bluntly before, or at least not by a company to whom I was paying regular monthly fees. Need I say I'm a bit unhappy?
Alexis Flamestar ANZEP Australia-New Zealand Eve Players Group	Posted - 2006.08.20 00:47:00 - [2] I to also prefer 98SE, but I found out awhile ago that everyone is writing for XP. So I run 98SE on 1 partion and XP Pro on another, Its not CCP's fault they have to dump 98SE, if Micro$oft no longer want to support it CCP is out on a limb, I hear the next DirectX dosen't support 98SE, this may be M$'s reason for dumping it. I think thats the reason they (CCP) decided to 'future proof' themselves. I can't blame them. Hell, I didnt got to 98SE (was 95b) until 2001 :) I have been trying to keep 98SE but time marches on
Sonos SAGD Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.20 00:48:00 - [3] eventually we all must upgrade. why not set up a dual boot for win xp home its not that difficult and if you can run eve you proally can have xp on your comp with a minor hardware upgrade can i have your stuff (never got to ask that before ) ----------------------------------------------- I lost 5 sp of skill trainning time during the last patch an i demand that ccp refund it to me
Ryo Jang 70th Blue Lions	Posted - 2006.08.20 00:49:00 - [4] wtf are you still doing running win98? fact is, microsoft isnt supporting the 9x's in directx anymore, and this new codebase is in preparation for the directx 10 client. upgrade foo. aquire it from somewhere, not that i condone that sort of thing. -------------------------------------------------------lol!
Ankhesentapemkah	Posted - 2006.08.20 00:58:00 - [5] Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 20/08/2006 01:01:59 Im still with Win98SE as well, and I hate it that games do not support it for no reason (basically programming lazyness, as everything that runs on 2k and XP can run on 98SE too) I even hacked Elderscrolls Oblivion to run on Win98, and can play that without issues on max settings, and I have a webserver running multiple forums that runs on Windows 98 and has uptimes of a minium of half a year each time. I told the people of my forums about the Eve problem, and less then one week later a sealed original Windows 2000 Professional CD dropped in my mailbox. Some people of the forums collected money for me and bought it off ebay, and had it sent to me. I put 2000 on a second partition, and I must say I'm quite happy with it, unlike my experiences with WinXP. Network stuff is much slower then 98, but the graphics of some games (guildwars for instance) look somewhat better because I no longer have to use Win98 beta drivers for my Radeon X800. Overall it's slightly slower then win98 FPS wise, but the sound is slightly better as tradeoff. I suggest you get Win2kPro somewhere. There should be plenty of places where you can get it cheap. Or else drop me a line, I'll always help a fellow Win98 user. It's basically as good as Win98 but with a different number. Service Pack 4 really made Win 2000 suitable for gaming (no it wasn't suitable before, Ive tried 2kSP2 and it sucked, hard!) Heh, me saying that a Win98 user should try a different Operating System, who would ever thought that would be possible...
Alexis Flamestar ANZEP Australia-New Zealand Eve Players Group	Posted - 2006.08.20 01:01:00 - [6] I have 4 HDD's on my system. All drives were formatted with 98 DOS (so i could read them No 'NTFS' here) Windows 98SE was installed on Drive C: XP Pro was installed on Drive D: They seem to not even know each is there. Only headache is you have to disable the recycle bin under 98SE cause its not compatiable once XP is installed. After much seaching for info, My XP Pro Screens look just like my 98SE.. Hope you can deal with the shift, all the new game and stuff as falling towards No 98SE support...mores the pity..IMHO it was the only decent OS M$ ever made.. Cheers
Alexis Flamestar ANZEP Australia-New Zealand Eve Players Group	Posted - 2006.08.20 01:06:00 - [7] Edited by: Alexis Flamestar on 20/08/2006 01:08:29 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah I suggest you get Win2kPro somewhere. There should be plenty of places where you can get it cheap. Or else drop me a line, I'll always help a fellow Win98 user. It's basically as good as Win98 but with a different number. Service Pack 4 really made Win 2000 suitable for gaming (no it wasn't suitable before, Ive tried 2kSP2 and it sucked, hard!) I wouldnt suggest it because, word on the street is, once Vista is out, Win2k will be going out also. M$ is already making noise about not supporting NT and 2K.. I'm keeping my 98SE for games and old programs I enjoy that won't work under XP I think XP will be around awhile still..but will require SP2 Food for thought..
Valeris	Posted - 2006.08.20 01:21:00 - [8] Originally by: Alexis Flamestar Edited by: Alexis Flamestar on 20/08/2006 01:08:29 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah I suggest you get Win2kPro somewhere. There should be plenty of places where you can get it cheap. Or else drop me a line, I'll always help a fellow Win98 user. It's basically as good as Win98 but with a different number. Service Pack 4 really made Win 2000 suitable for gaming (no it wasn't suitable before, Ive tried 2kSP2 and it sucked, hard!) I wouldnt suggest it because, word on the street is, once Vista is out, Win2k will be going out also. M$ is already making noise about not supporting NT and 2K.. I'm keeping my 98SE for games and old programs I enjoy that won't work under XP I think XP will be around awhile still..but will require SP2 Food for thought.. Rumours, plus, by the time Eve will stop supporting Win2k, which should be another two years away at least, my hardware is obsolete and I'll have a new 64-bit PC which I would install a 64-bit OS on. 32-bit gaming machines should have the best 32-bit gaming OS (Windows 98 or Windows 2000). 64-bit machines shouldn't have a 32-bit OS. I'll sit out the wait with Win98 and Win2k dualboot, and sit out the wait with one of the fastest possible 32-bit PCs. With this system can hold my breath for a long while, long enough to wait for Vista to be released and patched, 64-bit hardware to become common and lower in price even more, and most bugs to be located and fixed. I will skip WinXP and go for Vista. But not in the first 6 months after release. (all remember the hell of WinXP without service packs?)
Ragornok Disciples of Athene The Imperial Order	Posted - 2006.08.20 02:25:00 - [9] CCP isn't the first company to drop win98 support, and expect to see all the major MMO's do it in the near future as well. World of Warcraft and City of Heroes already list Win2K as the minimum required OS. It's just a matter of time. To keep modern they have to update the software code to be compatible with new hardware as well as keep the game competitive in face of the competition. Supporting a shrinking player base that is using out of production hardware and operating systems prevent them from doing that.
Ankhesentapemkah	Posted - 2006.08.20 08:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Ragornok To keep modern they have to update the software code to be compatible with new hardware as well as keep the game competitive in face of the competition. Supporting a shrinking player base that is using out of production hardware and operating systems prevent them from doing that. Most of the 'compatibility' issues are artificial, deliberately put in place by Microsoft. Take Oblivion as an example, the game will not start on Windows 98. Why? The game makes use of the instruction "SHGetFolderPath". Windows 98 is perfectly capable of using the SHGetFolderPath instruction, which would be handled by SHFOLDER.DLL. However, in Windows ME, 2000 and XP, SHGetFolderPath was put both in SHFOLDER.DLL and SHELL32.DLL. What does the new Microsoft Visual C++ do? Every program made by it will get SHGetFolderPath instructions forced to SHELL32.DLL! Thus Windows 98 users will get an error and the program refuses to load. The same thing happens with a lot of other instructions, which Windows 98 or ME or even Windows 2000 support perfectly well, but get moved around to different DLL files every Windows release in a big hide-and-seek game of artificial incompatibility, in which Microsoft can decide exactly when to drop an older OS and force users to upgrade the hard way, even though the older OS is normally perfectly capable of running the program. In the case of Oblivion, I hacked the exe to remove the reference to SHELL32.DLL and turn it into SHFOLDER.DLL. Guess what, Oblivion runs fine on Windows 98.
veix	Posted - 2006.08.20 13:23:00 - [11] Yes, you can make it run on win98 ok, but the thing is, that its no longer supported. If you know how to run it on win 98 you propably know alot more than the average PC user. If u get problems, CCP says that if you run 98SE they wont help you, and you have to find help for yourself. And you propably know where to find help too. And same for other games too. Its better to focus giving extended support on the majority of people than to spend time and money testing and giving backwards compitability to older systems. So I agree with them, if they put the same resources to use on something else giving better support on current OS'es. People who dont know how to run new games on old OS'es propably dont know where to get help and will go spend the 300 bucks on a new OS and will get on. Everything goes on and the ones that dont know how to find information will always suffer more....
Bomb Voyage	Posted - 2006.08.20 13:53:00 - [12] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Everything that runs on Windows XP is technically fully capable of running on Windows 98 and Windows 2000 too. Incompatibility is a myth and only there to make users spend 300 bucks on a new OS. That's nonsense. Windows 2000 and XP added a significant number of API calls that are just not present in 9x. Sure, you may get the odd game that can be patched to work because it's been a victim of API incompatibility (such as the example you gave above) but anything that actually uses the new calls is simply never going to work.

Sharkbait	Posted - 2006.08.20 16:15:00 - [13] the reason for windows 98/ME/win2k/win2ksp1 not being supported is really something we can not aviod. even tho we want to, it's simply not possible. i will get more information if i can and update you all alittle better.

Colette Reynard Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.20 23:39:00 - [14] Thanks, sharkbait, for promising to get us more info, if possible. I guess what really annoys me is that we were given so little warning. Given that CCP has obviously had this in planning for many months, and given that you are apparently forcing an OS upgrade on us, is 5 days warning really adequate?
Alexis Flamestar ANZEP Australia-New Zealand Eve Players Group	Posted - 2006.08.20 23:51:00 - [15] Edited by: Alexis Flamestar on 20/08/2006 23:51:41 Nice to see even one of the Dev Team have to put up with a stinkin "!" Avatar.. hahaha
Vorjak Ogreblood	Posted - 2006.08.21 01:10:00 - [16] You can still play on win98. But, if any compatibility problems arise, eve won't help you. They no longer support any customer support for win98 in relation to their game is all. I think...
Kruugore Minmatar Vigilant Justice	Posted - 2006.08.21 01:47:00 - [17] As someone who works at a University Help Desk, dealing with technical calls all the time. I have no sympathy for people complaining about moving on to newer platforms. You may not have problems. But I've dealt with enough problems to know that when it comes technology, the overwhelming majority of people are idiots. And from my experience, when tech companies say 'we don't support X program anymore', it really means that they don't want to be bothered dealing with keeping newer systems compatible with older systems because it takes too much time to help the overwhelming idiot majority. So when the company is running updated machines with updated software, has new staff trained on the new machines and new software. They don't have to waste time training the new employees on the older, less advanced systems that are more finicky. If someone calls up, I can just say "I'm sorry, our new systems are not meant to support X tecgh/software, please upgrade to the new version" It's not a matter of lazyness, I already get too many calls for the current systems to be bothered trouble shooting for an obsolete one.
Ankhesentapemkah	Posted - 2006.08.21 09:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Sharkbait the reason for windows 98/ME/win2k/win2ksp1 not being supported is really something we can not aviod. even tho we want to, it's simply not possible. i will get more information if i can and update you all alittle better. I'd be nice if you would provide a list of instructions the game uses which Windows 98 cannot handle normally. Then I can make a series of modified system DLLs which contain the instructions Eve needs, which can be loaded when the player wants to play Eve, but otherwise would not affect the system. That way players Eve executables aren't getting modified (so people wont get patch problems later on).
Colette Reynard Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:07:00 - [19] Ankh, how can I contact you? I don't see a PM option here at the forums, and a search on your name in-game turned up a bunch of similar egyptian jawbreakers, but no exact matches :)
Colette Reynard Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Kruugore As someone who works at a University Help Desk, dealing with technical calls all the time. I have no sympathy for people complaining about moving on to newer platforms. You may not have problems. But I've dealt with enough problems to know that when it comes technology, the overwhelming majority of people are idiots. And from my experience, when tech companies say 'we don't support X program anymore', it really means that they don't want to be bothered dealing with keeping newer systems compatible with older systems because it takes too much time to help the overwhelming idiot majority. So when the company is running updated machines with updated software, has new staff trained on the new machines and new software. They don't have to waste time training the new employees on the older, less advanced systems that are more finicky. If someone calls up, I can just say "I'm sorry, our new systems are not meant to support X tecgh/software, please upgrade to the new version" It's not a matter of lazyness, I already get too many calls for the current systems to be bothered trouble shooting for an obsolete one. Thanks for telling us about your lack of sympathy. That was an extraordinarily helpful contribution to this conversation.
Nexus1972 cosmos operations	Posted - 2006.08.21 15:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Colette Reynard Guess I have to say goodbye then. I still run 98SE, and eve has always worked fine for me. No crashes, very very few lockups, etc. But now CCP says as of tuesday Eve will no longer run on my machine. This is a new experience. I don't think I've ever been told to foxtrot oscar quite so bluntly before, or at least not by a company to whom I was paying regular monthly fees. Need I say I'm a bit unhappy? If you leave, can I have your stuff? -------------------------------- CEO of Cosmos Operations Building COSMOS Minmatar BPC's and supplying Sleeper components
Nexus1972 cosmos operations	Posted - 2006.08.21 15:37:00 - [22] This affects a small minority of eve users. I'd rather devs were working on fixing bugs than trying to support an OS that should have been dropped by anyone with > 10 braincells years ago. I have no sympathy for luddites there think 98 is better. It is not. End of. -------------------------------- CEO of Cosmos Operations Building COSMOS Minmatar BPC's and supplying Sleeper components
DOGNOSH Minmatar SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2006.08.21 15:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Nexus1972 This affects a small minority of eve users. I'd rather devs were working on fixing bugs than trying to support an OS that should have been dropped by anyone with > 10 braincells years ago. I have no sympathy for luddites there think 98 is better. It is not. End of. you pompus arse oh and /signed ========================================== stop moaning,give CCP a break
Milera Gallente Antimatter Assembly Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.21 16:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Nexus1972 This affects a small minority of eve users. I'd rather devs were working on fixing bugs than trying to support an OS that should have been dropped by anyone with > 10 braincells years ago. I have no sympathy for luddites there think 98 is better. It is not. End of. Amen, and /signed ------------------------------------------------- Through war we eliminate the weak, through war we develop technology, through war we hone our skills. Is it not a surprise that those who fight are s

Sharkbait	Posted - 2006.08.21 19:51:00 - [25] you can read the reasons for this in the latest blog from Oveur. he explains all, except the lack of beer in the office !

Colette Reynard Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.21 20:32:00 - [26] Edited by: Colette Reynard on 21/08/2006 20:35:13 It's not about being a luddite. It's about being poor. One thing I won't miss about Eve is all the (insert expletive of your choice) behavior from some people. And I regard that 1% comment in the blog with a great deal of skepticism.
StriderX Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.22 00:55:00 - [27] Here is the MS official product lifecycle page http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/ from there you can see planned life for MS to support their products
Bombcrater DAB	Posted - 2006.08.22 01:39:00 - [28] Originally by: Colette Reynard And I regard that 1% comment in the blog with a great deal of skepticism. The Eve client almost certainly reports your OS version every time you connect, so CCP's statistics should be very accurate. Whatever your reasons for sticking with Windows 9x, voluntary or not, 1% of the player base cannot be permitted to hold up the game's development. Even if the figure was 5% that would still be true.
Drano Kay Caldari Peekaboo Perfect Space Explore	Posted - 2006.08.22 04:38:00 - [29] I have a friend who is having this very same dilema, he still runs win 98, and he is considering giving up eve because he does not want to upgrade. I just have to laugh, and I know it's mean.. but come on, it's 8 frickin years old. Even if you ignore that fact, the bottom line is that Microsoft dropped support for it, how can you expect anyone else to support it? It's that simple. It is a DEAD product. I just have to say thank god CCP does not hold up development for legacy support dating back 8 frickin years.. Wasting even one extra day on win98 is too much. For all you people who NEEED win98 cause you're running products from the stone age which have never been made open source after their development/support stopped and thus do not run on 2k/xp, how bout a 10 gig win98 partition? Maybe I've been watching a little bit too much P&T, but people complaining about this is Bu11sh17! P.S. Yes I realise I'm trolling, but the servers are down =) Sorry.
Farys Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.22 04:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Colette Reynard Guess I have to say goodbye then. I still run 98SE, and eve has always worked fine for me. No crashes, very very few lockups, etc. But now CCP says as of tuesday Eve will no longer run on my machine. This is a new experience. I don't think I've ever been told to foxtrot oscar quite so bluntly before, or at least not by a company to whom I was paying regular monthly fees. Need I say I'm a bit unhappy? Get used to it. It's going to be a recurring theme in future months. As 98 is no longer supported by MS, more and more companies will be ignoring it completely, and rightfully so. Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Im still with Win98SE as well, and I hate it that games do not support it for no reason (basically programming lazyness, as everything that runs on 2k and XP can run on 98SE too) Sorry, but you are wrong. There is much that simply cannot run on 98. Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Most of the 'compatibility' issues are artificial, deliberately put in place by Microsoft. No, some of the compatibility issues are minor or artificial. 98 cannot support everything 2k and XP can. That is a fact. While there may be some things it can do, it cannot do all of them. 98 support will be going away in many areas, due to the fact that it is ancient. Originally by: Vorjak Ogreblood You can still play on win98. But, if any compatibility problems arise, eve won't help you. They no longer support any customer support for win98 in relation to their game is all. I think... Actually, it won't run at all due to some of the new code, I believe. Originally by: Colette Reynard And I regard that 1% comment in the blog with a great deal of skepticism. Good for you, that doesn't make it any less true. 98 users are few and far between these days, due to the fact that it is over 8 years old. Anyone claiming they "need" 98 for some old games needs to learn how to A) dual boot, or B) run a virtual machine. MS even released VPC2004 for free.

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