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Finde learth
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
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Posted - 2014.10.25 06:05:40 -
[1] - Quote
3 months have past. I guess there are no null miners in CCP and CSM. |
Ama Scelesta
55
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Posted - 2014.10.25 06:15:59 -
[2] - Quote
I guess the responsibility of informing them on how things are broken falls on to you then. Don't be shy, write it all down here in a calm and constructive manner.
You can do it.
I believe in you. |
Finde learth
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
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Posted - 2014.10.25 06:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ama Scelesta wrote:I guess the responsibility of informing them on how things are broken falls on to you then. Don't be shy, write it all down here in a calm and constructive manner.
You can do it.
I believe in you.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnERv99119DgdFBHOGdhUjgtelVJTFBQT3paaHA2Ync&hl=en_US#gid=0
Check Arkonor Bistot Crokite isk/hr and compare them to other high sec ores.
The isk/hr about Mercoxit is wrong. Because 5400 m3 / cycle is impossible for Mercoxit. |
Ama Scelesta
55
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Posted - 2014.10.25 07:23:41 -
[4] - Quote
Highsec mining has been extremely competitive for a long time, so I'm not sure I can spot the change from how things were. Where has the largest change happened and why? Do you have ideas to fix the problem? Nerf highsec, change mineral distribution in the ores, add more ores to null to shift the bottleneck or maybe something else.
You're the one doing it and feel the issue on a regular basis, so you must have ideas.
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
338
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Posted - 2014.10.25 07:45:35 -
[5] - Quote
Seems to be an issue of high sec ore having significantly smaller unit size and the current price on Mexallon, however you should factor in Rorq boosts that you don't get in high sec and that mining in null is safer then in high sec or at least I feel safer knowing I can shoot first and ask later and with the upcoming jump changes BO hotdrops are likely to lessen considerably. |
Dave Stark
7063
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Posted - 2014.10.25 07:49:52 -
[6] - Quote
if you're going to mine more in null sec, and flood the market with minerals...
what the **** did you think would happen to the price of high end minerals? |
Elinarien
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2014.10.25 08:08:08 -
[7] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:if you're going to mine more in null sec, and flood the market with minerals...
what the **** did you think would happen to the price of high end minerals?
Whilst at the same time those same null coalitions push down hard on hi-sec miners with Code etc that reduces supply and results in overall higher prices. |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
1007
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Posted - 2014.10.25 08:13:53 -
[8] - Quote
Let me get this straight, you complain that nullsec vs highsec mining prices are disproprortionate because the nullsec prices are lower then highsec.
Not sure if you've been following, but highsec mining has becoming less & less safe, perhaps not in reality, but certainly in perception, causing less folks to mine in high. (and these are minerals in high demand in large volumes, so need alot of people mining).
Nullsec mining on the other hand is fairly safe, if you do it in the systems assigned to you (the miners). Yes there's chances to get hotdropped, but that's a non-issue, as the highsec miner gets the gankers, so there's that. With added, if local spikes in null, GTFO, while in highsec, every person in local is a potential red( ganker) and you can't go dock every time a new guy jumps in... if you want to get any mining done in high. On top of this is that while nullsec ores are in demand, the volumes needed are smaller, so less miners needed to cover the demand: lower prices.
Want better null prices? Either make highsec mining safer, so people flock to high to mine instead of null, or make nullsec mining more dangerous, so less people mine and the remaining miners get higher prices.
Aurora Project expands the Arcology
The result of the YC116 Sleeper data research race: Tech 3 Destroyers!
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Maekchu
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
77
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Posted - 2014.10.25 08:25:39 -
[9] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:Want better null prices? Either make highsec mining safer, so people flock to high to mine instead of null, or make nullsec mining more dangerous, so less people mine and the remaining miners get higher prices.
I think the fix is, to make null sec mining much harder. So people can't just dock up, whenever someone comes into local, or appears on their intel channels. Some sort of, sneaky sneaky attack ship, that will be able to sneak by local and intel channels and take people by surprise. That could be used by solo pirates. preferably frigates sized with cloak :D Mmmmm... would be fun.
But we all know, this will never happen. The whine will be too high, if people can't carebear null without a thought. Or let me rephrase that... The tears will flow, in general, if people are not allowed to carebear without a care for what happens around them, be that nullsec or highsec.
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Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
528
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Posted - 2014.10.25 08:36:24 -
[10] - Quote
It's a video game. Risk is a made up word. You either can or you can't. Easy button mining, PvE, PvP. It's all the same.
Reward? You mine in complete safety, that's the reward. You earned it by building a blue donut. Gratz, enjoy.
R.I.P. Vile Rat
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13706
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Posted - 2014.10.25 08:37:42 -
[11] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Jandice Ymladris wrote:Want better null prices? Either make highsec mining safer, so people flock to high to mine instead of null, or make nullsec mining more dangerous, so less people mine and the remaining miners get higher prices. I think the fix is, to make null sec mining much harder. So people can't just dock up, whenever someone comes into local, or appears on their intel channels. Some sort of, sneaky sneaky attack ship, that will be able to sneak by local and intel channels and take people by surprise. That could be used by solo pirates. preferably frigates sized with cloak :D Mmmmm... would be fun. But we all know, this will never happen. The whine will be too high, if people can't carebear null without a thought. Or let me rephrase that... The tears will flow, in general, if people are not allowed to carebear without a care for what happens around them, be that nullsec or highsec.
It won't happen because CCP wants null industry to be viable.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Maekchu
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
77
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Posted - 2014.10.25 08:41:59 -
[12] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maekchu wrote:Jandice Ymladris wrote:Want better null prices? Either make highsec mining safer, so people flock to high to mine instead of null, or make nullsec mining more dangerous, so less people mine and the remaining miners get higher prices. I think the fix is, to make null sec mining much harder. So people can't just dock up, whenever someone comes into local, or appears on their intel channels. Some sort of, sneaky sneaky attack ship, that will be able to sneak by local and intel channels and take people by surprise. That could be used by solo pirates. preferably frigates sized with cloak :D Mmmmm... would be fun. But we all know, this will never happen. The whine will be too high, if people can't carebear null without a thought. Or let me rephrase that... The tears will flow, in general, if people are not allowed to carebear without a care for what happens around them, be that nullsec or highsec. It won't happen because CCP wants null industry to be viable.
You logic is not allowed in GD!
Can't I just have ONE toy?! :P
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
1982
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Posted - 2014.10.25 08:48:57 -
[13] - Quote
Your problem isn't CCP, it's your fellow null miners that are either mining too much or selling too cheap. Probably both.
I wonder why
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Elinarien
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2014.10.25 08:49:31 -
[14] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maekchu wrote:Jandice Ymladris wrote:Want better null prices? Either make highsec mining safer, so people flock to high to mine instead of null, or make nullsec mining more dangerous, so less people mine and the remaining miners get higher prices. I think the fix is, to make null sec mining much harder. So people can't just dock up, whenever someone comes into local, or appears on their intel channels. Some sort of, sneaky sneaky attack ship, that will be able to sneak by local and intel channels and take people by surprise. That could be used by solo pirates. preferably frigates sized with cloak :D Mmmmm... would be fun. But we all know, this will never happen. The whine will be too high, if people can't carebear null without a thought. Or let me rephrase that... The tears will flow, in general, if people are not allowed to carebear without a care for what happens around them, be that nullsec or highsec. It won't happen because CCP wants null industry to be viable.
It is viable - you just have to import certain goods from other regions. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13706
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Posted - 2014.10.25 08:51:44 -
[15] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:baltec1 wrote:Maekchu wrote:Jandice Ymladris wrote:Want better null prices? Either make highsec mining safer, so people flock to high to mine instead of null, or make nullsec mining more dangerous, so less people mine and the remaining miners get higher prices. I think the fix is, to make null sec mining much harder. So people can't just dock up, whenever someone comes into local, or appears on their intel channels. Some sort of, sneaky sneaky attack ship, that will be able to sneak by local and intel channels and take people by surprise. That could be used by solo pirates. preferably frigates sized with cloak :D Mmmmm... would be fun. But we all know, this will never happen. The whine will be too high, if people can't carebear null without a thought. Or let me rephrase that... The tears will flow, in general, if people are not allowed to carebear without a care for what happens around them, be that nullsec or highsec. It won't happen because CCP wants null industry to be viable. You logic is not allowed in GD! Can't I just have ONE toy?! :P
Patience my good man, the great t3 rebalance threadnought is on the horizon.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
323
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Posted - 2014.10.25 09:34:38 -
[16] - Quote
Imagine if you will...
The Jump Bridge Network which gets stuff to and from market in Highsec in a trice never existed. That Null Alliances all contain a couple of very strong industrial corps. Imagine that you're flying ships which have been purchased locally, manufactured by those industrial corps locally. Imagine that there are buy orders which feed these industrial corps, Trit at 2x Highsec price, Zyd a little lower (though the Highsec price on highends would be higher than it is now).
You could export the product of your mining, perhaps get a better price for it, but you're going to have to gate to gate a freighter to do so... Or you could buy your BS for 25% over what it goes for in Highsec and still pocket a huge profit...
Oh look!
It's 2005-6 again. |
Mixu Paatelainen
Eve Refinery
171
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Posted - 2014.10.25 09:58:44 -
[17] - Quote
High end minerals crashing because anomalies have to be mined out to respawn, flooding market with un-needed zydrine and megacyte is about the size of it yes?
Swap null and highsec ores solves it one way... |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4984
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Posted - 2014.10.25 11:36:58 -
[18] - Quote
Who would have thought: Mining in null-sec isn't as much about profit than it is about having a viable at home industry with appropriate mineral supply.
Maybe stick with mining Scordite and Veldspar in null until the high-end mineral prices have recovered from the oversupply.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Dave Stark
7066
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Posted - 2014.10.25 12:29:34 -
[19] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Who would have thought: Mining in null-sec isn't as much about profit than it is about having a viable at home industry with appropriate mineral supply.
Maybe stick with mining Scordite and Veldspar in null until the high-end mineral prices have recovered from the oversupply.
except that's not practical, as you need to mine all of the ore in the site, in order to get it to respawn. you really don't have a choice of what ores you mine or don't mine.
edit: (unless they changed that, but i don't remember seeing a change like that in any of the patch notes) |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4984
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Posted - 2014.10.25 12:54:16 -
[20] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Who would have thought: Mining in null-sec isn't as much about profit than it is about having a viable at home industry with appropriate mineral supply.
Maybe stick with mining Scordite and Veldspar in null until the high-end mineral prices have recovered from the oversupply. except that's not practical, as you need to mine all of the ore in the site, in order to get it to respawn. you really don't have a choice of what ores you mine or don't mine. edit: (unless they changed that, but i don't remember seeing a change like that in any of the patch notes) Guess a industry upgrade that lets you spawn sites of a specific type of ore instead of a set high-end one would help controlling null-sec mineral supply. The standard belts don't seem to supply enough low-ends.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
243
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Posted - 2014.10.25 13:22:19 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maekchu wrote:
Can't I just have ONE toy?! :P
Patience my good man, the great t3 rebalance threadnought is on the horizon.
But why can't I have a ship that does everything better than everything else. It is balanced based on price, which totally works in an MMO environment as we have(n't) learnt from the past decade of Eve!!! If you are going to make it comparable to other ships I demand my SP refunded!
That thread is going to be figuratively cancer.
This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
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Dave Stark
7067
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Posted - 2014.10.25 13:23:36 -
[22] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:baltec1 wrote:Maekchu wrote:
Can't I just have ONE toy?! :P
Patience my good man, the great t3 rebalance threadnought is on the horizon. But why can't I have a ship that does everything better than everything else. It is balanced based on price, which totally works in an MMO environment as we have(n't) learnt from the past decade of Eve!!! If you are going to make it comparable to other ships I demand my SP refunded! That thread is going to be figuratively cancer.
it'll probably turn from figurative to literal, by the end. |
Felicity Love
Imperium Galactic Navy
2157
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 14:10:22 -
[23] - Quote
Finde learth wrote:3 months have past. I guess there are no null miners in CCP and CSM.
There are plenty of miners in Null... well, at least in the null "Slavelands" where renters cheerfully slave away for their feudal masters -- but when you meet the Devil at the Crossroads, well... c'est la vie, cherie.
Of course, anyone with half a brain knew that such massive over-mining of ABC's would lead to a high-end minerals crash.
And now, well, the situation only gets worse as prices continue to drop and the various "farmers" undercut each other at market desperately trying to "make the rent" each month on commodities that just keep going lower in value.
Fun times.
"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
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Ormand Yvorme
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.10.25 15:13:23 -
[24] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Jandice Ymladris wrote:Want better null prices? Either make highsec mining safer, so people flock to high to mine instead of null, or make nullsec mining more dangerous, so less people mine and the remaining miners get higher prices. I think the fix is, to make null sec mining much harder. So people can't just dock up, whenever someone comes into local, or appears on their intel channels. Some sort of, sneaky sneaky attack ship, that will be able to sneak by local and intel channels and take people by surprise. That could be used by solo pirates. preferably frigates sized with cloak :D Mmmmm... would be fun. So. A bit like a covert ops ship that could fit really strong bombs and battleship sized weapons? Or cruisers that could be cloaks and do good DPS? Or like, ventures (battleventureftw) but with a covops cloak? Or maybe a cloaky faction that have high DPS drones and turrets. I wonder, maybe CCP should implement them. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6950
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 15:31:56 -
[25] - Quote
Finde learth wrote:3 months have past. I guess there are no null miners in CCP and CSM.
If you stopped paying rent, you could keep more of those rewards.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13708
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Posted - 2014.10.25 17:50:59 -
[26] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:baltec1 wrote:Maekchu wrote:
Can't I just have ONE toy?! :P
Patience my good man, the great t3 rebalance threadnought is on the horizon. But why can't I have a ship that does everything better than everything else. It is balanced based on price, which totally works in an MMO environment as we have(n't) learnt from the past decade of Eve!!! If you are going to make it comparable to other ships I demand my SP refunded! That thread is going to be figuratively cancer. it'll probably turn from figurative to literal, by the end.
It's going to be a blast even if it does give use all mind cancer.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Maekchu
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
77
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Posted - 2014.10.25 18:24:07 -
[27] - Quote
Ormand Yvorme wrote:Maekchu wrote:Jandice Ymladris wrote:Want better null prices? Either make highsec mining safer, so people flock to high to mine instead of null, or make nullsec mining more dangerous, so less people mine and the remaining miners get higher prices. I think the fix is, to make null sec mining much harder. So people can't just dock up, whenever someone comes into local, or appears on their intel channels. Some sort of, sneaky sneaky attack ship, that will be able to sneak by local and intel channels and take people by surprise. That could be used by solo pirates. preferably frigates sized with cloak :D Mmmmm... would be fun. So. A bit like a covert ops ship that could fit really strong bombs and battleship sized weapons? Or cruisers that could be cloaks and do good DPS? Or like, ventures (battleventureftw) but with a covops cloak? Or maybe a cloaky faction that have high DPS drones and turrets. I wonder, maybe CCP should implement them. I think you missed the most important part.
Trust me, I have done my share of trying to implement risk to parts of EVE, that are essentially risk free. But because of local, people can just dock up as soon as you they are not alone in local. So yeah, I know the cloaky variants in game at the moment.
What I was asking for, is a tool for aggressors that can be used, to get a tackle on someone and have a window of opportunity, so it forces a response from the defender. I don't mind a blop showing up, if I tackle anyone, cause that caused a reaction. What I do mind, is everyone and their mother, to just dock up as soon as they are not alone in local.
All the odds are in favor of the defender at the moment. It should be, that if you are skilled enough, you can stack the odds in your favor, even as an aggressor. For example, you will only get the kill on a lowsec or nullsec miner, if they are completely ********, or have no idea what they are doing i.e. a newbie lost in space.
Yeah, I'm asking for a tool to get carebear killmails. But it sure would be a nice change for a solo pilots, except always flying 1vsMany. If there is no risk in some parts of EVE, then give us the tools CCP. Solo pilots will gladly provide this service to you! :D |
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
633
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Posted - 2014.10.25 21:30:49 -
[28] - Quote
I like the new system. The risk is that you can waste time mining rocks that nobody will pay you for. It might force a true economy and not an ISK printing war.
Previous Null had little industry and you trucked all minerals from Null ore to HS and made stuff on demand or sold it as raw. For the new Null to work, you need to make on site and hope to have a few high end minerals left over to take to HS to sell because both Morphite and Megacyte are still exclusive to Null. While I can mine HS anoms and get everything I need to manufacture, I can't get Morphite and I can't get Megacyte in any volume. I can get Zydrine for small Industry operation but in mass production, Zydrine needs to be imported as well. I could try and gun mine Megacyte from Amarr mission loot but with all the changes combined, that is less and less likely.
Null in its current climate has room for surplus Megacyte, Morphite, Zydrine and Moon goo as profit but it needs to be surplus, not all in to the JF, off to Jita for sale. This system needs to be handled through Null agreements on all ends. If you want to be an over lord alliance, you need to consider industrial contribution from prefecture space as being just as valid as raw ISK. 'Rental space' that provides capital parts at a discount will need to be given rental subsidy.
Yes, the Null that is evolving is complex and will require more than a wallet transaction but wasn't that EVE complexity what we bragged about not too long ago? |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
650
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 22:24:02 -
[29] - Quote
This is a red herring.. very few people sell ABC ores in high sec because it's much more economical and convenient to sell the refined minerals.
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
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Finde learth
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
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Posted - 2014.10.26 00:55:43 -
[30] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:This is a red herring.. very few people sell ABC ores in high sec because it's much more economical and convenient to sell the refined minerals.
That's why the sheet use minerals price to calculate.
Mining High-end ores in null becomes a joke since Crius patch.
If Low-end ores have more isk/hr than High-end ores, Why should i go to null for mining?
Military 6/10 mission have 600k+ m3 ores and reset everyday. Mining in there is much safer than in null. |
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