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Ignasi
The Merch
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Posted - 2006.08.20 18:43:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Ignasi on 20/08/2006 18:43:52
 Originally by: Feja'dhtaki
I am a victim of the EIB scam, and gg to him. I'm not even that bothered about the ISK, but one question sticks for me...
In "real life" scams, or frauds are illegal, and are dealt with seriously, but for the scams that go on in EVE are just lol'd at, why are no actions taken? Agressive actions in safe space get you spanked, but scams get you hailed. Should victims not be reimbursed, and perps banned, I do not know, but you don't seem to care.
I am pretty sure a few people will have quit after this.
GG Cally
Yes, but in EVE scams are legal. Ergo no action taken by CCP.
As to your last comment: Good for them. They took a risk and it didn't pay off. If anything at least them quitting will reduce the amount of *****ing and moaning on the forums.
Originally by: Jenstruant Fogg
CCP refunded the IPO scams - what's the difference between an IPO type scam and this one? (other than it not calling itself an IPO outright)
The GMs already admitted that the refund was a mistake that won't be repeated.
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I buy/sell any and all faction ships. Drop me a line if interested in doing business! |
Too Kind
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Posted - 2006.08.20 18:45:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jenstruant Fogg
CCP refunded the IPO scams - what's the difference between an IPO type scam and this one? (other than it not calling itself an IPO outright)
It was a GM mistake or the rules were at least unclear.
That's why people got refunded in the first place, but later it was decided that the scammer was right and allowed to keep his money. Since then is has been made clear a few times that (IPO) scamming and things like that are allowed in EVE afaik.
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Post with your main !!!111 |
Cherybol
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Posted - 2006.08.20 18:50:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Beaty Swollocks
The scale of what this guy did tho is abit extreame. I mean he could make like $100,000 rl cash from this (buy gtc's and selling for rl cash, which is not illegal right?) or totaly unbalance the game econ which could have dire effects on there custom.
So in theory they could/should do something for this kinda scale.
Ok? So one dude now has 750 Bil. So what? How in the hell is he gonna disrupt the economy buy buying some fancy toys. Or converting to gtc's and selling them for cash.
All he's doing is filling the gap where someone wants to get isk by cash means. And usually these people only buy a couple hundred mil. Or so.
The only way he would wreak havoc and *****us all is if he bought t2 BPO's, monopolized them, trashed them, ect. Or if he manipulated the market, by killing all margins. Actually, if he did that, he could make trillions if he played the cards just right.
He's not disrupting it. The only way it could happen is if a MASSIVE influx of cash was generated out of no where. But this cash wasn't. He took it from players, hence, it was already ingame. And now he's eventually gonna return it.
No way in hell he's gonna make that cash dissapear. If he trashed it all. CCP would just fill the void if it ended up being that severe.
Be cool my *****es.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.20 19:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
How much did you all lose?
5 mil. I have perhaps 100 mil total in that kind of thing, because it's soo easy to scam. I invest hundreds of millions in friends ventures on a regular basis. Far safer.
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.20 19:25:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Karl Mord
Originally by: stoats
I don't have a problem with scamming, but at least be consistant, stop protecting game card and character sales.
If you can't see the diffrence between scaming someone out of actual money ($ for the GTC, or $ for the character transfer) and scaming someone out of fake game money, you have real problems.
If he buys a stackload of game time cards with that ISK, and then sells them for cash .... then it IS actual money. And he can legally do that.
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Uuve Savisaalo
Umbra Congregatio
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Posted - 2006.08.20 19:34:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Uuve Savisaalo on 20/08/2006 19:35:23
Originally by: Feja'dhtaki
Should victims not be reimbursed, and perps banned, I do not know, but you don't seem to care.
you do realise that people like currin trading, who purpetrated the last scam have been exposing EIB and cally for quite some time now? So, really - who do you want to reimburse you for a lack of due dilligence?
You've been had. Welcome to the harsh frontier of eve.
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Sirkill
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Posted - 2006.08.20 19:53:00 -
[37]
Doubt it will be converted into RL money. He has realy got the spotlight on himself, if he tries to trade it the isk will dissapear and he wil be banned.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.20 20:02:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 20/08/2006 20:02:12
If you are doing something "bad" for the profit, and not for the glory, you make sure that noone will be able to interfere with it. The best way to do it is by making sure noone knows.
Thats why "honest" players are far more suspect of ebaying then scammers who post all over the forums.
Maybe this scam is actually smoke and mirrors to cover some large-scale RMT somewhere else.
Sure, he can easily make 50-100b disapear at the cost of using the rest as a smokescreen, but converting it all is nigh impossible.
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Your Main
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Posted - 2006.08.20 20:03:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers
I gladly give newb players 10m ISK if they promise to do something fun.
And now you can do that for every newb in Eve! 
ps send my regards to the Rasts, Cally, Naph, EMFI Manager, EMFI Auditor, Kal, and Stingy.. among others  |
Ozmodan
Minmatar
Storm Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.20 20:07:00 -
[40]
Some of you seriously need to step back and think about what you are saying.
The status quo is not working, if you can't understand that your are truely mentally challenged.
A smart group of players could have funneled that isk into RL money, lots of it, how do you know that is not happening now? If not now, it will happen soon, because they can do it.
CCP is just asking for a major economy collapse in the future with their inaction with large scale scamming.
There is basically zero investment in this game that is not a scam, because even if it is not today, it will be tomorrow. Because there is no recourse and any telling me I can kill them has me truely rolling on the floor laughing that idea is so absurd.
Learners permit still current |
Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.08.20 20:11:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Death Kill on 20/08/2006 20:12:06
Originally by: Ozmodan
The status quo is not working, if you can't understand that your are truely mentally challenged.
Quote:
A smart group of players could have funneled that isk into RL money, lots of it, how do you know that is not happening now?
Theres already people doing that, and CCP is 'looking into it' on a regular basis (or so they say). But they wont change an open gamne just to suit your silly carebear ways.
You want a happy utopia? Go play wow.
For the state for the state for the state |
mir4ge
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Posted - 2006.08.20 20:17:00 -
[42]
It would be interesting if this scam was actually capable of being prosecuted in RL. If you were able to prove ISK has a direct RL monetary value (i.e. ISK to GTC), then why couldn't you submit a class action suit (involving everyone that lost a substantial sum)?
There is already precedent in this arena, though not a direct correlation. RL case where a court ruled virtual items have a RL monetary value.
Just wanted to throw this out there for discussion.
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.08.20 20:20:00 -
[43]
Originally by: mir4ge
It would be interesting if this scam was actually capable of being prosecuted in RL. If you were able to prove ISK has a direct RL monetary value (i.e. ISK to GTC), then why couldn't you submit a class action suit (involving everyone that lost a substantial sum)?
There is already precedent in this arena, though not a direct correlation. RL case where a court ruled virtual items have a RL monetary value.
Just wanted to throw this out there for discussion.
That guy got hacked, its not even remotely comparable. That being said, I think ingame money-rl court is rubbish. Say no to the police state.
For the state for the state for the state |
Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.20 20:21:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 20/08/2006 20:21:54
Originally by: Ozmodan
A smart group of players could have funneled that isk into RL money, lots of it, how do you know that is not happening now? If not now, it will happen soon, because they can do it.
Yep, 10/10 complexes, t2 BPOs, multi-account mining 0.0 ores for RMT. But what does it have to do with scamming?
Oh wait, you are using yet another ad ebayum argument to get support for something totally unrelated.
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mir4ge
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Posted - 2006.08.20 20:25:00 -
[45]
Quote:
That guy got hacked, its not even remotely comparable. That being said, I think ingame money-rl court is rubbish. Say no to the police state.
Let me clarify. For the hypothetical class action, you would only need the precedent that virtual money/items have a RL monetary value. You would still have to argue the merits of case.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.20 20:30:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 20/08/2006 20:32:02
This scam may very well have RL implications. And yes, its obvious that virtual currencies have RL value, even if the part of the EULA that robs you of all actual ownership is legal. Because you have to spend real time to aquire the fake money.
And yes, such a law action could have success, depending on some factors. But that would not be the first time in history were law is used to promote injustice.
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Etien Jeins
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2006.08.20 20:52:00 -
[47]
In my opinion CCP should persecute any scams perpetrated on its forums. For a long time it has been clear that if you want to scam, you had to do it inside the game. One on one interaction scams, escrow scams, corp. thefts, etc, all are OK, so long as they are not taken out of game.
Now, it is clear that any arse-wipe can make a fake IPO or some other 'investment opportunity' or some bogus lottery or something, bring it to forums, take our ISK and run, w/o any repercussions.
CCP and GMs made it clear that Forum Scamming, so long as it does not involve the GTC or Character scamming is OK, and not actionable.
In my opinion this is plain wrong, CCP should have instabans in place for any of the following:
GTC Scams, no recourse, if GM can confirm that you scammed someone with a useless GTC = Instant Account Ban
Character Sales, no recourse, if GM can confirm that you scammed or sold a misrepresented character = Instant Account Ban.
Fake IPO/Investment Opportunity/Fake Lotto: if GM can confirm that it was a scam = Instant Account Ban.
Right now GMs are way to lenient, people get ęWarningsĘ that about it. Anyone who scams outside of game should be banned. This will cut down on allot of trash we are seeing these days.
There have to be some harsh rules out there.
[Hi, I am an exclamation mark! What's your name? And no, I am not a Goon ALT] |
Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.08.20 20:56:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Death Kill on 20/08/2006 20:55:56
Originally by: Etien Jeins
There have to be some harsh rules out there.
Yeah there already is :
Rule#1 : Bad things happen to stupid people
Rule#2 : Always remember rule#1
For the state for the state for the state |
Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.20 21:04:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Etien Jeins
Fake IPO/Investment Opportunity/Fake Lotto: if GM can confirm that it was a scam = Instant Account Ban.
Real scammers wont let the GMs confirm that it was a scam. And really bad people will let the GMs confirm that your honest IPO actually was a scam. Scammers make money by fooling .. humans. GMs are ... humans (i hope).
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Keta Min
Pre-nerfed Tactics
Blood of the Innocents
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Posted - 2006.08.20 21:07:00 -
[50]
happened so many times already and it's always the same.
a big scam, the gullible victims whining about CCP's policy on scamming with alts, the community laughing at them.
and it's still funny every single time.
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Ketrin
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Posted - 2006.08.20 21:20:00 -
[51]
There was a guy in Jita that scamed a lot of ppl by selling "Navy issue" ships. I was one of them. It seems that the guy scamed at least 40-50 ppl. Their money or items weren't reimbursed.
I do not see how is this EIB scam different except that it included far more ISK. If your only argument is "it will effect economy" then you are out of luck.
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Ketrin
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Posted - 2006.08.20 21:20:00 -
[52]
There was a guy in Jita that scamed a lot of ppl by selling "Navy issue" ships. I was one of them. It seems that the guy scamed at least 40-50 ppl. Their money or items weren't reimbursed.
I do not see how is this EIB scam different except that it included far more ISK. If your only argument is "it will effect economy" then you are out of luck.
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Deja Thoris
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.20 22:06:00 -
[53]
People asking for nerfs are the reason we have "warning the contents of this coffee cup may be hot" labels.
Christ people, use some common sense. You knew before you threw your money at this "get rich" scheme that there are no game mechanics other than blind trust to enforce an IPO. You trusted a totally unknown entity who didn't even have a digital history and now you come and cry here because you got burned.
Just how stupid can you get?
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Kage Getsu
Lordless
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Posted - 2006.08.20 23:53:00 -
[54]
I didn't know there were 600 billion worth of morons in this universe, but once again I am proven wrong.
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Infinity Ziona
Apostasia
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Posted - 2006.08.21 00:31:00 -
[55]
There is a problem with the thinking in this thread and that is that until there is a way that gives some option for real trust there will never been a real bank or other similiar organization in the game.
While I think that scams are okay and I myself scam people I think that having player runs companies are a great thing. Think about Big and the Lottery. They add content and depth to the game. Which is always a good thing.
It would be good if CCP would sell licences for isk, purchased on the market to run real institutions, that have garantee's in some fashion.
Banking Corporation [Name] - Creation of the Corp 10,000,000,0000 isk
Money is deposited directly into the corporations account. The money can be used by the CEO and directors of the corporation to buy items, when those items are sold (only on market) and they cannot be sold for less then the value of the initial purchase, that money is returned to the banks account. At the end of the month the CEO may take a % of the profits of the investment.
I think that would be a neat way of providing a banking system / investment system in EvE that isnt easy or cheap to set up and which has a degree of reliablity.
Click Me
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Uggster
Caldari
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.21 00:45:00 -
[56]
Haveing spent time reading up on this whole thing since it broke (I dissmissed the idea when it was first shown to the public at large and promply forgot about it) I can only come to one real conclusion :
When you gamble you accept the fact that you can lose.
How was this any differant ?
Think about it. |
Hannibal AntePorta
Minmatar
Finis Lumen
Muffins of Mayhem
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Posted - 2006.08.21 19:10:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Death Kill
Originally by: Feja'dhtaki
In "real life" scams, or frauds are illegal, and are dealt with seriously
but for the scams that go on in EVE are just lol'd at, why are no actions taken?
Listen to me like I were your father..........ITS.A.GAME.
A game that takes considerable trouble to model many of its mechanics after real life. We could be flying rowboats instead of spaceships, I wonder why we aren't....
k |
Arkanor
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.08.21 20:08:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
How much did you all lose?
0.00 ISK
Seriously though, there needs to be in some cases a better way to fight back against scammers. He could have just as easily not revealed his main and thus take no responsibility for his actions.
Scamming is the only way to get 0 risk, multibillions reward.
Originally by: Ghosthowl
WoW = hardcore paladins smashin dat face.
Originally by: HippoKing
I just cried, you know that? |
Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.21 20:26:00 -
[59]
I think it's about time CCP steped up and did something about scamming in it's current form. But it should be within the game and within the story/spirit of the game.
Now, I'm a big believer in people playing how they want, including scamming.
So here is what I think CCP should do.
Banks in game and other investment schemes can hire "concord insurance". Which is simply this, if a person runs off with the money, they become -10 KOS to all, no penalty for high sec kills and concord actively hunts this person when they are in empire. *CCP needs to go after the real character, not the alts. And a set amount of money is repayed out of the scammers wallet back to players. Much the way banks are insured in the real world. Something like 100m insured, the reast isn't. This only works if CCP tracks the money and where ever it lands they set that person to -10. For at least 6 months, if not permanetly.
The insurance should be spendy, and a monthly cost, but not so high that no one is willing to pay it.
This would allow legit banks and investments to run in game with some level of protection. Beyond just the "trust me". And also fits in with the game mechanics and game story.
CCP should also make an event out of these kinds of things. Have a eve wide manhunt on for cally and all his alts. Have concord make them all -10 to all for 90 days because he is a "wanted criminal". (90 days of logged in time, counting 4-8 hours as a "day") Have a big ass bounty for his head.
Scamming is fine. Even these huge scams are fine. But they need to have a counter IN GAME. Rather than just "don't trust people", well thats all well and good, until someone pulls something like this off and walks away scott free.
I doubt anyone besides CCP even knows who cally's real main character is. Presuming he just doesn't buy a few new ones.
___________________________________________
The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain.
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Kespii
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.21 20:37:00 -
[60]
I bet the people bashing the victims wouldnt support ccp adding a viable stock system in the game. You guys would rather have scams instead of good content....*****s.............
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