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Feja'dhtaki
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:06:00 -
[1]
I am a victim of the EIB scam, and gg to him. I'm not even that bothered about the ISK, but one question sticks for me...
In "real life" scams, or frauds are illegal, and are dealt with seriously, but for the scams that go on in EVE are just lol'd at, why are no actions taken? Agressive actions in safe space get you spanked, but scams get you hailed. Should victims not be reimbursed, and perps banned, I do not know, but you don't seem to care.
I am pretty sure a few people will have quit after this.
GG Cally
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Sensor Error
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:09:00 -
[2]
CCP have said time and time again that they will NOT enforce your trust problems. Kinda like God's not interference because of free will thing. There are PLENTY of ways to get back at people who scam you, find them, kill them repeatedly, trace their supply lines etc etc. If you can't do this, just hire some mercs to do it for you...
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
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Dev Responses to common questions |
Torlack
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:10:00 -
[3]
If there was a programatic way of detecting scams (reliably), then CCP could treat scaming as just another form of piracy (white collar piracy).
However, there is no practical method of doing this and the amount of man power it would take to track down and prove scamming would be too costly. Thus CCP (to the best of my knowledge) rightly takes to stance of "buyer beware".
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Dao 2
Generals Of Destruction Syndicate
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:11:00 -
[4]
because space is harsh and concord sucks ;p
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NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
Also the gal |
Lala Ru
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:18:00 -
[5]
It's only possible in this case because Cally revealed his main. He could have just transfered his money to who knows where and there would have been no retaliation possible.
For all other forms of scams or pirating there are ways of retaliation. At the very worst case scenario you need to camp all the stations where he has jump clones and get ganked by CONCORD when you attack, but it CAN be done. With stuff like this, a scammer just sends the stuff to his main and there is no recourse.
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:19:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Feja'dhtaki
In "real life" scams, or frauds are illegal, and are dealt with seriously
but for the scams that go on in EVE are just lol'd at, why are no actions taken?
Listen to me like I were your father..........ITS.A.GAME.
For the state for the state for the state |
Trevedian
Amarr
KR0M
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:33:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Feja'dhtaki
I am a victim of the EIB scam, and gg to him. I'm not even that bothered about the ISK, but one question sticks for me...
In "real life" scams, or frauds are illegal, and are dealt with seriously, but for the scams that go on in EVE are just lol'd at, why are no actions taken? Agressive actions in safe space get you spanked, but scams get you hailed. Should victims not be reimbursed, and perps banned, I do not know, but you don't seem to care.
I am pretty sure a few people will have quit after this.
GG Cally
Your so right in saying ""real life" scams, or frauds are illegal, and are dealt with seriously".
So go call your local police and tell them that you were scammed in a video game and lost some video game money... They should have a good "lol" in rl about that one...
Should miners I kill in belts be able to charge me with "Assault & Battery" too, because they did not consent to my killin then smackin them? Oh sheeeze!
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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Beaty Swollocks
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:36:00 -
[8]
The scale of what this guy did tho is abit extreame. I mean he could make like $100,000 rl cash from this (buy gtc's and selling for rl cash, which is not illegal right?) or totaly unbalance the game econ which could have dire effects on there custom.
So in theory they could/should do something for this kinda scale.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:38:00 -
[9]
How much did you all lose?
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In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn. |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:40:00 -
[10]
Unhappy with what happened? Go wardec Dentara Rast then, its not like hes hiding in an npc corp.
Note: He has the funds to hire the MC on your ass a loooonnngggg time 
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:41:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 20/08/2006 15:44:15
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 20/08/2006 15:41:36
I think CCP will be forced to react. The guy gets a statue in Jita right next to the Monument of stabs. After all, he is an eve hero.
Call your lawyer and try to sue him IRL for scamming. Do something, be proactive. Make the world a better place. try to enforce RL morals and laws in video games. Make sure that every alliance will have to sell ISK on ebay to pay for the RL lawyers to back their wars. After all, every POS that gets blown up is worth 40$ or so. Make online gaming a better place.
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Beaty Swollocks
The scale of what this guy did tho is abit extreame. I mean he could make like $100,000 rl cash from this (buy gtc's and selling for rl cash, which is not illegal right?)
And THEN, you could get the police interested, because now he's scammed you out of real-life wealth and not just ISKies in a game.
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Nyabinghi
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:43:00 -
[13]
Hmmm...I wonder how many other MMORPGs allow players to scam other players...
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nyabinghi
Hmmm...I wonder how many other MMORPGs allow players to scam other players...
Hmmm...I wonder how many other MMORPGs suck ass...
The answer: all but one.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Miss Razor
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
How much did you all lose?
think its somthing like 750billion
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Miss Razor
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
How much did you all lose?
think its somthing like 750billion
I mean individuals. Would be funny to see CCP scamming players and do massive ISKs sink. Nah, will never happen. 
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In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn. |
Larkonis Trassler
g guild
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:53:00 -
[17]
Really... how is this any different to piracy? Eve is after all a PVP game, be it combat, trade or theft. Why is scamming money no more of a legit tactic than piracy (not that I condone either)? At least he had the stones to reveal his main. You invested money, you got burned, you'll be more careful next time, that's the way it goes. I lost out too in the form of EIBI shares. Am I complaining? Hell no! It's a learning experience. If you invested more than you can afford then you're an idiot. I say well done to Dent for pulling the wool over everyone's eyes and getting away with such a huge amount.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.20 15:59:00 -
[18]
The PROBLEM with "many" Scams
(Note for Idiots: Look up the meaning of the word "many")
Many scams use alts. This makes them a completely risk free for of economic PvP
While risk vs reward is a non-issue for NPC (as there is no risk when facing NPCs if you know what you are doing....), for PvP of any kind, risk is REQUIRED.
PvP risk need not be "instant" risk. But it MUST be real risk. If someone ganks my hauler with a Battleship, the battleship pilot has no "instant" risk, but he does take "real" risk. Alt scamming includes no real risk.
For that reason, and that reason alone, such scamming should be utterly nerfed into non-existance.
Having said that, rushed action by CCP would be bad.
But even if it proves impossible to fix the problem without doing more harm than good (very possible...) only a moron would then decide that alt scamming should be "acceptable" game play. Just because you can't fix something that is flawed to its core is no reason to "accept it". Condemn it, and move on. maybe with time there will be a fix.
Scamming that involves actual risk, such as with the main character on paid accounts that is close to as old as your main, is actually playing the game. Using characters not "valuable" ABOVE AND BEYOND THEIR ABILITY TO SCAM is worthless play that should not be respected by players, nor by CCP.
If you scam, and think CCP should take your style of play seriously, use a character that is of "HIGH" value to you for reasons above and beyond scamming. To be even more specific: If for "ANY" reason you are taking no "real" risk when harming other players, then your style of play deserves no respect, and should be nerfed.
Something that bears repeating:
Rushed action by CCP would be bad. But even if it proves impossible to fix the problem without doing more harm than good (very possible...) only a moron would then decide that alt scamming should be "acceptable" game play. Just because you can't fix something that is flawed to its core is no reason to "accept it". Condemn it, and move on. maybe with time there will be a fix.
*snip*
This type of comment has no place in a signature, please remain courteous - Pirlouit
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Tate Iceni
Caldari
Iceni Combat and Logistical Support
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Posted - 2006.08.20 16:10:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tate Iceni on 20/08/2006 16:15:50
Many of the Individuals, Corps and Alliances who have been sucked into the EIB "scam" I would imagine have considerable in game experience.
I would also imagine that many of those individuals, corps and alliances have told newbs who have lost ships to ganging scams and thousands of isk on escrow scams to quit whining and learn from the experience.
I would now like to ask those individuals, corps and alliances who have lost a few hundered million to quit whining and learn from the experience!
If you think alt scamming is unacceptable - then why trust "young" characters with your cash?? I was new to the game when the EIB was set up - and I wasn't going to even invest 1mil Isk until they had become established for some time, and luckly I never took the plunge; but then I would have only invested what I could afford to lose and accepted it as a gamble.
To those who've lost money and have been able to laugh about it - I salute you! 
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.20 16:26:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 20/08/2006 16:29:02
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
stuff
No. This is not a problem. The idiots who fall for alt scams are the problem. So are the idiots who judge a character based on NPC standings and corp history. If you fall for a "low-value" character scam, and complain, you deserve to lose everything you lost again.
I gladly give newb players 10m ISK if they promise to do something fun. There was actually an IPO of a guy who wanted to use the money to pirate, then write stories and poems about his exploits. He was talking about t1 cruisers or something like that.
But everyone ignored this one, and threw money after the 10th "i am an alt, i need 25b to buy t2 BPOs" IPO.
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MrRookie
Caldari
Dark and Light inc.
D-L
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Posted - 2006.08.20 16:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sensor Error
CCP have said time and time again that they will NOT enforce your trust problems. Kinda like God's not interference because of free will thing. There are PLENTY of ways to get back at people who scam you, find them, kill them repeatedly, trace their supply lines etc etc. If you can't do this, just hire some mercs to do it for you...
Ofc with the exception of escrow scams. Escrow scams > God since you cannot do anything to get back at the scammer which is why I can't wait for the new contract system
________________________________________________
________________________________________________ |
Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.20 16:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 20/08/2006 16:29:02
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
stuff
No. This is not a problem. The idiots who fall for alt scams are the problem. So are the idiots who judge a character based on NPC standings and corp history. If you fall for a "low-value" character scam, and complain, you deserve to lose everything you lost again.
I gladly give newb players 10m ISK if they promise to do something fun. There was actually an IPO of a guy who wanted to use the money to pirate, then write stories and poems about his exploits. He was talking about t1 cruisers or something like that.
But everyone ignored this one, and threw money after the 10th "i am an alt, i need 25b to buy t2 BPOs" IPO.
If a player does not take any meaningful risk when harming other players, it does not matter how stupid and selfish his victims are, HE is even more worthless, and he is more worthless by such a large margin that even CCP should sit up and take notice of his worthlessness.
If you screw with other players, there must be risk. It can be indirect, it can be once or twice or three times removed, it can subtle risk, but it must be "real" risk.
I indirectly harm every player that is shot by BNC. They can indirectly harm me back by blasting my POSs (or even shoot me personally when I do fly with teh combat groups....). They can harm me once removed by shooting my corp mates, etc. The risk is there. There is no risk for an alt scammer.
*snip*
This type of comment has no place in a signature, please remain courteous - Pirlouit
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.20 16:57:00 -
[23]
Escrow is actually scam-proof. What you see is what you get. Some people dont want to see, but whatever.
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.20 17:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Many scams use alts.
People who give their money to alts are just begging to be scammed.
If there where no stupid people in Eve there wouldnt be any scammers eithers.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Delzo
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Posted - 2006.08.20 17:23:00 -
[25]
I can't believe the number of people here begging for nerfs.
If you want to see what happens to a mmorpg who listens to needless calls for nerfs, look no further than SWG and then ask yourself if it's worth it.
We either live and learn or get restrictions up the wazoo, and then it just won't be freeform play anymore...would that still be Eve?
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stoats
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Posted - 2006.08.20 17:43:00 -
[26]
I don't have a problem with scamming, but at least be consistant, stop protecting game card and character sales.
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Karl Mord
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Posted - 2006.08.20 17:53:00 -
[27]
If you can't affoard to lose it, don't fly it.
Dentara Rast just capped your mining cruiser. Hardcore.
TBH, I'm getting sick of all the forum drama from people trying to beg questions and make serious and important implications every time one of these goes through.
People lol at you because it is a game and your taking it seriously. Playing to win is good, it is just a game.
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Itzena
Amarr
OtakuDyne Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.20 17:55:00 -
[28]
Two quotes:
"There's a sucker born every minute"
"If something looks too good to be true - it probably is"
--
I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power...
I want us to be what we used to be. |
Karl Mord
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Posted - 2006.08.20 17:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: stoats
I don't have a problem with scamming, but at least be consistant, stop protecting game card and character sales.
If you can't see the diffrence between scaming someone out of actual money ($ for the GTC, or $ for the character transfer) and scaming someone out of fake game money, you have real problems.
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Jenstruant Fogg
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Posted - 2006.08.20 18:40:00 -
[30]
CCP refunded the IPO scams - what's the difference between an IPO type scam and this one? (other than it not calling itself an IPO outright)
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