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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.22 02:30:00 -
[1]
Everyone has bookmarks. Those who don't will die that one time and then quickly get bookmarks. And also copy them for their friends. And the results is just lag lag lag.
There are tools now to catch people on warpin - mobile bubbles - so a "Warp to 0 KM" is not a path to invincibility.
Neither will a "Warp to 0 KM" option save the pilot who jumps into a system to find himself surrounded by hostiles, just as a bookmark wouldn't. If he gets away there, he was going to get away irrespective of a "Warp to 0 KM" option.
Pirates and gate gankers - please train up to use mobile bubbles. It only takes a few days for the medium and even less for the small. I even support the seeding of their BPO's onto the market so they can be produced easily and cheaply. Let this endless cycle of bookmark copying and lag begone.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.22 02:40:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Dark Shikari However, mobile warp disruptors don't work in low security space.
i fully support their use in 0.4 and below, with a security hit or aggression timer just like you'd get for killing or firing on a ship.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.22 02:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: mazzilliu and if you can lock people before they align, then instas or warping to 0km wont help anyways 
exactly, this is how i presume the vast majority of kills happen - not because someone is slowboating to a gate. they would remain.
and as for the slowboaters, they can't have much of value because they can't afford or don't know of instas.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.22 17:45:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lo3d3R Letting people warp to 0km is the most absurd thing I have ever heard, sure the odd player might have a region or two, some routes etc etc, but giving everyone a free ride to everywhere is just plain silly, another great game changing feature like removing local , I hope CCP knows when to and when not to change stuff that are brought forth from whining.
not the odd player. like thousands of others i have thousands of instas collected over several months. i want to delete them all except the handful of safespots. a "Warp to 0 KM" option would allow me to do that and would reduce server lag immensely.
i don't have a Domain set yet. you know the first thing i would do if i ever had to go to Domain? i would get an insta set, and then copy it for my friends/corp/alliance. we'd all then have a "Warp to 0 KM" option at the cost of the server.
removing the need for instas for the most part only reduces lag. it is the best stopgap solution, and we can work on the downsides later.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.23 15:07:00 -
[5]
hey, who changed my topic title? 
the short of it is, a "Warp to 0 KM" option is the only way to get people to delete their bookmarks and to prevent new ones from being copied. it is not a perfect solution, i'll be the first to admit, but it is the best of the bad solutions, so to speak. server performance must be the priority, and the downsides to this imperfect solution may be remedied later.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 14:00:00 -
[6]
no skills please, and especially no high rank skills. we want everyone to delete their bookmarks ASAP, and if a skill is implemented nobody will do that until the skill is trained to V.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 15:54:00 -
[7]
could a dev comment on this topic please. i know you guys are reading the thread. a mod would only change the thread title if it were offensive, which it was not. a dev would change it to make it more neutral, so they could gauge player responses.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 22:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Avon Warp to 0km is a nerf to Minmitar, and a boost to Caldari. Remember that when then come to get you.

i'm curious as to what you mean by this.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 22:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
2) People already warp to 0km anyways with insta's so allowing the optin to warp to 0km doesnt change SQUAT for 90% of the player base.
Proof please that 90% of the players have every gate to gate insta in Eve.
Making stuff up just makes you look even dumber.
how many people in your corp/alliance do you estimate don't have gate instas?
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 22:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Exioce
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
2) People already warp to 0km anyways with insta's so allowing the optin to warp to 0km doesnt change SQUAT for 90% of the player base.
Proof please that 90% of the players have every gate to gate insta in Eve.
Making stuff up just makes you look even dumber.
how many people in your corp/alliance do you estimate don't have gate instas?
I doubt any have every g2g insta in Eve, and that is what warp to 0km gives everyone.
It isn't a case of keeping things as they are now, as the warp to 0km crowd would have you believe.
that's not the question i asked, if they had every gate insta in game. i asked for an estimate of the percentage that had them.
a further question, when your corp/alliance decides to go adventuring outside its normal space, does it do so without buying/copying gate instas?
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 22:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Exioce
a further question, when your corp/alliance decides to go adventuring outside its normal space, does it do so without buying/copying gate instas?
Well, lots of us didn't have instas around SU when we came up to visit. I certainly didn't have any.
i notice you have left out an answer to the question of what estimated percentage of corp/alliance members have gate instas.
however, with regards to S-U, you say a lot of you didn't have instas when you arrived. would i be right in presuming this was because you arrived in a gang where only the leader was required to have instas.
as you've said you didn't arrive with them, did you acquire Syndicate instas during your stay?
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 23:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 24/08/2006 23:03:48
Originally by: Exioce
as you've said you didn't arrive with them, did you acquire Syndicate instas during your stay?
No. Still haven't got any.
Still didn't stop me roaming around.
I guess the difference is that I was looking for fights, not looking to avoid them.
As to the percentage of people with g2g instas, I think you are missing the point somewhat. (And I honestly don't know) Some people may have lots, some may have only a few, but with warp to 0 everyone gets them all. That is not maintaining the status quo, as those who argue for it claim. That was my point.
if this is truly the case, then i should think you are the exception rather than the rule. i'll be blunt, since i have seen BoB gangs working firsthand. your gang leaders do have Syndicate instas, effectively giving everyone in their gangs a Warp to 0km. a significant percentage of those gang members also have instas of their own. your members certainly have instas for their home regions, and those areas they need to regularly pass through.
just like Goonswarm. and ASCN. and D2. and LV. and -V- and every other established entity in the EVE universe.
let's cut the newbies a break, and the database some load.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 23:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Exioce Stuff
Look, warp to 0km would be ace for me. I'd have every insta in Eve, and I would use it against my enemies.
I'm not arguing against it because it would make me less effective, but because it would make me more effective.
Warp to 0km would be great for me, but that doesn't mean it would be great for the game.
We don't all feel the need to argue for changes to Eve from our own selfish perspective. Eve deserves better than that.
I want a better game, and that does not always mean easier or more convenient.
there is a price that comes with Warp to 0km, i'll be the first to agree. but the benefit to server performance outweighs it. we have 100k users and millions of instas currently, and we often find ourselves chugging along. how much worse will it be when we have double or triple that number. instas must be killed, and Warp to 0km may not be pretty, but it is certainly effective.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 23:36:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Exioce on 24/08/2006 23:36:59
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Exioce
there is a price that comes with Warp to 0km, i'll be the first to agree. but the benefit to server performance outweighs it. we have 100k users and millions of instas currently, and we often find ourselves chugging along. how much worse will it be when we have double or triple that number. instas must be killed, and Warp to 0km may not be pretty, but it is certainly effective.
So why not go for a module based solution if your only concern is server performance? Scared you might have to compromise?
simply this, a module will not get people to delete their instas to the extreme degree Warp to 0km would, because keeping the instas would mean they wouldn't then have to 'waste' a slot.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 23:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel Warp to 0km won't get rid of bookmarks or instas. People will still want safe spots and sniping spots.
safespots and sniping spots make up a far far few percetage of bookmarks than gate and station instas. if i am typical of others, then my safespots and snipespots number less than 1% of my bookmark total.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 23:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Exioce
simply this, a module will not get people to delete their instas to the extreme degree Warp to 0km would, because keeping the instas would mean they wouldn't then have to 'waste' a slot.
They don't get the choice. ners often bookmark specific cans so they don't have to slowboaThe instas are deleted, and creating them again is made impossible (not all bm's, just those around gates and stations).
i'm not sure CCP would go for such an invasive act as deleting all bookmarks from their end. perhaps they do have the means to determine what is a gate/station insta and what is not from the data, but it is just as likely they don't. and i should think they shudder at the amount of programming they have to do and petitions that would result.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.24 23:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Exioce
i'm not sure CCP would go for such an invasive act as deleting all bookmarks from their end. perhaps they do have the means to determine what is a gate/station insta and what is not from the data, but it is just as likely they don't. and i should think they shudder at the amount of programming they have to do and petitions that would result.
They don't really have a choice. It isn't like you can rely on the player to do it.
while it's true that not every insta would be deleted - what about the inactive accounts after all - i think it's safe to say that from amongst the active players, the vast majority of those who use instas hate them. i would certainly delete them, and if this thread is any indication so would a lot of others.
somewhere down the line a bookmark limit might have to be implemented to cull the inactives, if that's even possible. so why not have a bookmark limit now? because again, it's a question of complexity. do we only include bookmakrs in People and Places? or does it include bookmarks in station hangars and ship holds? and on the debate goes, all the while the number of instas keeps growing.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.25 00:17:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Exioce on 25/08/2006 00:17:47
Originally by: Kim Chee It shouldn't be that hard, really. They know the coordinates of every gate/station, they know how big they are. Iterate through all player bookmarks and delete any that fall within the X km radius. You might miss a few edge cases, but the players will delete those themselves, when they discover they're useless and just clutter up their right-click menu.
out of 5000 systems, there must be a minimum of 30000 gates and stations. now consider there are tens of millions of instas in existence. while it may be possible to iterate all that data, the bottom line is CCP is a company with limited time and resources. how much simpler and cost-effective to implement Warp to 0km, and have the players themselves delete their insta folders with a few clicks of their mouse buttons.
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Exioce
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.26 00:05:00 -
[19]
it's hard to take a position seriously when you know the fellows of the person taking that position love their de facto Warp to 0km tool so very much.
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