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Why doesnt mining make more isk?

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Cant tell Ifserious Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.10.29 03:36:04 - [1] - Quote I have a ishtar that makes about 21mil a tick in nullsec or around 80+mil an hour ratting hubs etc. Then i have a Rorq with max boosts and a mackinaw on another character mining, i cant even make close to that in nullsec. Why is this? Why does 1 character make more isk than 2. Why does a 200mil ship make more than a 2.5bil+ ship combo make less? shouldnt group play make more isk? ccp pls :(
Jegrey Dozer Ruatha Holdings 42	Posted - 2014.10.29 03:44:14 - [2] - Quote Generally speaking, risk is proportional to ISK/hour.
somedudeinaship Republic University Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2014.10.29 03:56:30 - [3] - Quote Try gas harvesting in nullsec/wormholes, I've read that is where the money is at the moment.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 21273	Posted - 2014.10.29 04:01:56 - [4] - Quote Jegrey Dozer wrote: Generally speaking, risk is proportional to ISK/hour. Edit: Oh and as a side remark, you make more ISK with 2 mining ships with no boosts compared to your current setup. IIRC it's around 4 miners before boosts pay for themselves, at least in the case of an Orca. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1166	Posted - 2014.10.29 04:14:02 - [5] - Quote I am pretty sure this is actually an anti-AFK-mining and botting troll post but anyway - taking the OP seriously for now: The miners in my mains corp log in with a couple of characters each and park in a belt and go off to watch a movie and cook dinner. They are logged in for maybe 6 or 8 hurs a night but actually "play" for about an hour of that. In terms of ISK/hour-actually-playing the mining makes more ISK per hour than even incursions.
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 2404	Posted - 2014.10.29 04:24:33 - [6] - Quote Supply and demand.
Emma Muutaras State War Academy Caldari State 61	Posted - 2014.10.29 04:30:59 - [7] - Quote income from ratting in hubs and such are set by CCP though the bounty payouts (Ticks) this is isk generated from nothing. Income from mining is generated by selling ore/minerals on the market which is player driven If the cost or ore went up the cost of minerals would also go up which in turn would effect the price of everything from a T1 afterburner to a Titan. Yes you would make more isk/per hour on paper but because the cost of everything would go up you would be no better off in fact you would be worse off because the ratting income would remain the same. It could be argued that Ratting income is to high but if you did lower the ratting income it would effect the ore/mineral price as people would no longer have as much isk to spend meaning less sales which leads to high supply low demand which will in turn lower the value of the item as people under cut to get rid of there stock
Rowells Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans 1568	Posted - 2014.10.29 04:45:56 - [8] - Quote Sadly, if mining was more profitable in isk terms, more people would do it, making it less profitable. That's the sad reality of being at the whims of market demands.
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1285	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:34:44 - [9] - Quote Because you are doing it WRONG. Mining is BORING and intended for industrial material supply, not for pressing F1 and going AFK. A.K.A Hodor Von Grootenberg
R0mparkin Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.10.29 06:10:06 - [10] - Quote mining is broken, eve is dying!!
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 17411	Posted - 2014.10.29 06:45:28 - [11] - Quote Can't tell if serious.... *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Carmen Electra SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 11575	Posted - 2014.10.29 06:48:17 - [12] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Can't tell if serious.... Came here for this. Was not disappointed. Bacon makes us stronger
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 140	Posted - 2014.10.29 07:27:06 - [13] - Quote Emma Muutaras wrote: as for this statement The miners in my mains corp log in with a couple of characters each and park in a belt and go off to watch a movie and cook dinner. They are logged in for maybe 6 or 8 hours a night but actually "play" for about an hour of that. i can tell you must be new to mining ive done a little mining and i cant go afk for any longer than 5 mins, stripminers tend to mine out a roid in 2 cycles at which point i need to relock a new roid and activate the stripminers again on top of that the ore hold fills up 2 quick to go afk for for more than 10 mins not to mention nullsec belt rats do hurt even in a skiff going afk is not advisable. unless your mining buddys are using a decent bot to jetcan and warp off if rats turn up. i cant see how they can go afk and watch a movie or cook dinner You in high sec Emma? Out in the back blocks of 0.0 there are roids no one gets to for years. Those babies just grow and grow and grow.
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 324	Posted - 2014.10.29 08:39:13 - [14] - Quote Emma Muutaras wrote: i can tell you must be new to mining You've never mined Null Anoms, have you? Set up on low competition roids (anything but the ABCMs in my experience) and you can mine the same rocks for ages, the occasional rat spawn is the biggest non-player threat.
Desimus Maximus Embargo. 124	Posted - 2014.10.29 08:52:08 - [15] - Quote Most activities in Eve have been carefully examined by CCP. You will make relatively the same amount of ISK over a given period of time doing any form of PVE activity if you have high skill levels. It all comes down to time and effort, but you will essentially be earning the same, give or take a few milliion.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 140	Posted - 2014.10.29 08:55:17 - [16] - Quote Desimus Maximus wrote: Most activities in Eve have been carefully examined by CCP. You will make relatively the same amount of ISK over a given period of time doing any form of PVE activity if you have high skill levels. It all comes down to time and effort, but you will essentially be earning the same, give or take a few milliion. Different activities scale differently.
Serene Repose 1577	Posted - 2014.10.29 10:50:31 - [17] - Quote Take the "R" out of "RISK" and you got...no wait....Take the "K" out...or was it...hang on. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
Cynadore 3 R Corporation 6	Posted - 2014.10.29 13:01:37 - [18] - Quote How about adding value to your mining by turning those minerals into something useful that people actually want. There's more profit in selling ships or ammo than in selling plain old minerals.
Satan's Spawn Satan's Enterprises 0	Posted - 2014.10.29 13:09:52 - [19] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: [quote=Emma Muutaras] Out in the back blocks of 0.0 there are roids no one gets to for years. Those babies just grow and grow and grow. lol, this.
Xavier Holtzman Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Fatal Ascension 196	Posted - 2014.10.29 13:22:52 - [20] - Quote Cant tell Ifserious wrote: I have a ishtar that makes about 21mil a tick in nullsec or around 80+mil an hour ratting hubs etc. Then i have a Rorq with max boosts and a mackinaw on another character mining, i cant even make close to that in nullsec. Why is this? Why does 1 character make more isk than 2. Why does a 200mil ship make more than a 2.5bil+ ship combo make less? shouldnt group play make more isk? ccp pls :( Because of Falcon. I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it. - Bill Frug
Dave Stark 7078	Posted - 2014.10.29 13:55:46 - [21] - Quote because ore is worth like 17 isk/unit for veldspar. that is the reason, and that alone. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Jegrey Dozer wrote: Generally speaking, risk is proportional to ISK/hour. Edit: Oh and as a side remark, you make more ISK with 2 mining ships with no boosts compared to your current setup. IIRC it's around 4 miners before boosts pay for themselves, at least in the case of an Orca. considering an orca's links gives you just over a 50% boost in yield, as soon as you get to 3 accounts it's paying for itself.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 21290	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:03:37 - [22] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: IIRC it's around 4 miners before boosts pay for themselves, at least in the case of an Orca. considering an orca's links gives you just over a 50% boost in yield, as soon as you get to 3 accounts it's paying for itself. Thanks for the correction Dave, it's been a while since I've used my Orca and alt mining accounts so my recollection is a bit dusty. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Petre en Thielles Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 92	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:19:59 - [23] - Quote Cant tell Ifserious wrote: I have a ishtar that makes about 21mil a tick in nullsec or around 80+mil an hour ratting hubs etc. Then i have a Rorq with max boosts and a mackinaw on another character mining, i cant even make close to that in nullsec. Why is this? Why does 1 character make more isk than 2. Why does a 200mil ship make more than a 2.5bil+ ship combo make less? shouldnt group play make more isk? ccp pls :( Mining isn't a profession. Mining is part of the industry profession. You can make a substantial amount from mining if you start producing stuff from the ore.
Dave Stark 7078	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:19:00 - [24] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: IIRC it's around 4 miners before boosts pay for themselves, at least in the case of an Orca. considering an orca's links gives you just over a 50% boost in yield, as soon as you get to 3 accounts it's paying for itself. Thanks for the correction Dave, it's been a while since I've used my Orca and alt mining accounts so my recollection is a bit dusty. for future reference. compared to a solo miner, boosts give you somewhere just over 70% extra yield i think. however when comparing an orca boosted miner to one being boosted just by fleet boosts (so like, 15% yield from a mindlinked squad leader etc) it drops to just over 50% which still makes it worth getting the orca as your third pilot. which is nice because it means the point for adding an orca is always 3 pilots (unless you don't have a mindlink because you're cheap)
Medalyn Isis Rosewood Productions 418	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:21:34 - [25] - Quote Peons, a Rorqual will pay for itself with just one miner. ;)
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 205	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:23:14 - [26] - Quote Because its effortless and can easily be done AFK/boxing/botting? If anything it should offer even less rewards, and there should be active involvement required so that it cannot be done AFK.
Petre en Thielles Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 92	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:57:38 - [27] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Because its effortless and can easily be done AFK/boxing/botting? If anything it should offer even less rewards, and there should be active involvement required so that it cannot be done AFK. So we need to kill more miners in high sec so that the reward for mining goes down? Great suggestion. I think I will do a bit of that tonight.
Regnag Leppod Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 91	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:03:27 - [28] - Quote Petre en Thielles wrote: You can make a substantial amount from mining if you start producing stuff from the ore. Bullshit. You can break even or get a small profit on top of it, nothing more, and the only way you're going to make any profit is by opening up Excel and turning Eve into a JOB. Most modules and ships you might want to build you are competing with builders who have perfect BPO's, and half of them sell their product at a loss over mineral value.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 205	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:16:08 - [29] - Quote Petre en Thielles wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Because its effortless and can easily be done AFK/boxing/botting? If anything it should offer even less rewards, and there should be active involvement required so that it cannot be done AFK. So we need to kill more miners in high sec so that the reward for mining goes down? Great suggestion. I think I will do a bit of that tonight. No, you need to find a way to permanently shut down the 50 ship russian bot fleets. Killing one miner may make you feel good, but it won't actually solve the problem.
sereneabt 28	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:17:06 - [30] - Quote Xavier Holtzman wrote: Cant tell Ifserious wrote: I have a ishtar that makes about 21mil a tick in nullsec or around 80+mil an hour ratting hubs etc. Then i have a Rorq with max boosts and a mackinaw on another character mining, i cant even make close to that in nullsec. Why is this? Why does 1 character make more isk than 2. Why does a 200mil ship make more than a 2.5bil+ ship combo make less? shouldnt group play make more isk? ccp pls :( Because of Falcon. Stop messing around with the classics Love me... Hate me... ...as long as you pay me
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 313	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:42:10 - [31] - Quote IMO the only way to make money by mining is by shooting miners. OTH occasionally I do mine. But for me its the zen like nature of mining that is the attraction - so mining is its own reward. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Pen Ris Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:54:40 - [32] - Quote Petre en Thielles wrote: Mining isn't a profession. Mining is part of the industry profession. You can make a substantial amount from mining if you start producing stuff from the ore. Because the stuff you mine is free so the profits are bigger. amiright?
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 392	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:59:24 - [33] - Quote Because Highsec the Code ALWAYS wins
DaReaper Net 7 1165	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:34:50 - [34] - Quote mining though I love it, is the lowest rung of the industry chain. Its the equivlant of being a simple miner in real life and mining something like coal, and expecting to be as rich as the guys who turn that coal into something else. Its decent isk, but its not a way to get rich fast. If you wan tto make more money you need to move up the food chain and make stuff. Mining is a simple task so there are TONS of minerals on the market, thus flooded, thus prices for ore are kept relatively low OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Cant tell Ifserious Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:37:10 - [35] - Quote WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame wrote: Because you are doing it WRONG. Mining is BORING and intended for industrial material supply, not for pressing F1 and going AFK. what do you think ishtar ratting is?
Petre en Thielles Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 92	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:43:42 - [36] - Quote Regnag Leppod wrote: Bullshit. You can break even or get a small profit on top of it, nothing more, and the only way you're going to make any profit is by opening up Excel and turning Eve into a JOB. Most modules and ships you might want to build you are competing with builders who have perfect BPO's, and half of them sell their product at a loss over mineral value. Yes, you have to use a few spreadsheets, but if you do you can make a lot of ISK. Yes, you need to have connections to research BPOs, have connections to have a perfect nullsec refiner refine your ore, etc...but this IS a social game. If you don't want to do all that, I understand, but that is the 'endgame' of mining. Veers Belvar wrote: No, you need to find a way to permanently shut down the 50 ship russian bot fleets. Killing one miner may make you feel good, but it won't actually solve the problem. Shut down bot fleets? If you see one, report it. Botting is not allowed per EULA. Pen Ris wrote: Because the stuff you mine is free so the profits are bigger. amiright? No, because there are certain items (if you follow the market) that are cheap to make and sell for substantially more than their raw materials. Find a buddy who can research BPOs for you, find a buddy who has perfect refining, and get to your spreadsheets.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 144	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:47:29 - [37] - Quote Regnag Leppod wrote: Petre en Thielles wrote: You can make a substantial amount from mining if you start producing stuff from the ore. Bullshit. You can break even or get a small profit on top of it, nothing more, and the only way you're going to make any profit is by opening up Excel and turning Eve into a JOB. Most modules and ships you might want to build you are competing with builders who have perfect BPO's, and half of them sell their product at a loss over mineral value. 1. Get a perfect BPO. It is much easier now than it ever has been to have perfect BPO's. 2. High-Sec regional market variance is over 30% in some high volume low yield items. Don't join the rush to the bottom in the busiest places. Find a small niche area and enjoy the lack of competition. or 3. Some low sec/0.0 hubs have 70% - 120% variance from the across regional average. Some low sec/0.0 regions have no hubs. There are plenty of places to maximise your profits - your time investment in market research will pay dividends - it can also be done while your mining fleet is grinding the rocks.
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1166	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:12:05 - [38] - Quote Emma Muutaras wrote: ive done a little mining and i cant go afk for any longer than 5 mins, stripminers tend to mine out a roid in 2 cycles at which point i need to relock a new roid and activate the stripminers again on top of that the ore hold fills up 2 quick to go afk for for more than 10 mins not to mention nullsec belt rats do hurt even in a skiff going afk is not advisable. unless your mining buddys are using a decent bot to jetcan and warp off if rats turn up. i cant see how they can go afk and watch a movie or cook dinner Not my experience, though have not mined for years. So long as you scan the rocks and choose the good ones you get at least 10 minutes a rock maybe more and that was in a fleet with an orca and mining boosts. You must be in crap belts. As far as rats go someone in your fleet is likely to be on even if you are not plus a large fleet does mean an awful lot of warriors out. Regardless ... even if you mine on a second screen so you can keep an eye on things, while playing Farmtown or Candy Crush in Facebook on your main screen, mining is a low attention activity that lets you do other stuff at the same time and hence lots of people do it and that reduce the income.
Decian Cor Trust Doesn't Rust Triumvirate. 185	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:14:10 - [39] - Quote 1) stop mining 2) shoot things 3) Profit [u]Unfiltered for the masses.[/u] http://imgur.com/mzSl1Ie
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 1747	Posted - 2014.10.29 22:55:59 - [40] - Quote Shooting rats straight up gives you isk. Ore is only worth what other players are willing to pay for it.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2332	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:34:11 - [41] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Supply and demand. This. There are too many miners.
Hicksimus Plan-It Xpress Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 391	Posted - 2014.10.29 23:58:28 - [42] - Quote To put it a different way....people in nullsec are making piles of money and if they want ore they can buy a pile of alts which will all be self-sustaining and then some in the isk department. It's a side profession for people in nullsec and so you are doing alt work and you are getting paid like an alt for it. Edit: And that's the downside of having nearly unlimited ore and so many types of minerals in highsec.....mining is easy while you pay attention to the important characters. Do you have it?
Cattegirn Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2014.10.30 00:02:46 - [43] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Desimus Maximus wrote: Most activities in Eve have been carefully examined by CCP. You will make relatively the same amount of ISK over a given period of time doing any form of PVE activity if you have high skill levels. It all comes down to time and effort, but you will essentially be earning the same, give or take a few milliion. Different activities scale differently. Could you explain what you are referring to?
Anthar Peva Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.10.30 03:32:21 - [44] - Quote Well for one, the activity requirement. I know you can semi-AFK rat, but I don't think it was intended to be done like that. I doubt they intended mining to be anything but semi-afk isk making, because it's like structure bashing. But alone.
Josef Djugashvilis 2636	Posted - 2014.10.30 16:40:08 - [45] - Quote [quote=Cant tell Ifserious]I have a ishtar that makes about 21mil a tick in nullsec or around 80+mil an hour ratting hubs etc. Then i have a Rorq with max boosts and a mackinaw on another character mining, i cant even make close to that in nullsec. Why is this? Why does 1 character make more isk than 2. Why does a 200mil ship make more than a 2.5bil+ ship combo make less? shouldnt group play make more isk? ccp pls :( [/quote Kill all the other miners, then you will make a fortune. This is not a signature.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 6563	Posted - 2014.10.30 17:05:22 - [46] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Supply and demand. This. There are too many miners. And not enough ship destruction. Hopefully that is about to change with the low/ null changes. Three things make this game possible. Harvesting, building, destruction. For the longest time now, we've only seen two of these happening. That needs to change and CCP seems to be taking steps to get that balance back again. It will take some time to burn through the massive stockpiles of ships sitting in the currently stagnant null alliances, but I have faith that we'll see some interesting gameplay in the future that will boost the price of minerals again. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Notorious Fellon 348	Posted - 2014.10.30 17:08:43 - [47] - Quote Simple answer: Because the activity requires little interaction. As soon as mining cannot be done afk and it actually becomes more engaging and maybe even a touch more risky then the ores supply will drop as AFK miners can no longer perform the task. Thus, prices go up. Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1344	Posted - 2014.10.30 17:50:28 - [48] - Quote The ease of macro managing a group of miner is what kills it at the end of the day. Players can do the work of tens without breaking a sweat so the work of a single character become about 1/10th or less of a player. If it was not possible to make it afk or via automation/cloning of imput, the pay would probably rise a bit.
Cant tell Ifserious Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.10.31 00:02:58 - [49] - Quote Notorious Fellon wrote: Simple answer: Because the activity requires little interaction. As soon as mining cannot be done afk and it actually becomes more engaging and maybe even a touch more risky then the ores supply will drop as AFK miners can no longer perform the task. Thus, prices go up. you cant afk mine in nullsec. You have to worry about battleship rat spawns that kick ur ass and over powered interceptors warping to your belt.....
Petre en Thielles Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 95	Posted - 2014.10.31 13:59:00 - [50] - Quote Cant tell Ifserious wrote: you cant afk mine in nullsec. You have to worry about battleship rat spawns that kick ur ass and over powered interceptors warping to your belt..... Sure you can. Just have one guy in the belt watching with fleet warp on.
Mark O'Helm Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt 5	Posted - 2014.11.01 05:16:05 - [51] - Quote Cant tell Ifserious wrote: I have a ishtar that makes about 21mil a tick in nullsec or around 80+mil an hour ratting hubs etc. Then i have a Rorq with max boosts and a mackinaw on another character mining, i cant even make close to that in nullsec. Why is this? Why does 1 character make more isk than 2. Why does a 200mil ship make more than a 2.5bil+ ship combo make less? shouldnt group play make more isk? ccp pls :( I make at least 60 mil/hour with 1 orca and 2 hulks mining blue ice in hs. I think thats pretty good. In null i guess i could make 100mil/hour by replacing the orc with a rorq. Am i wrong? Btw. While mining i watch tv or youtube on the second screen.
Arronicus Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra 1211	Posted - 2014.11.01 09:26:59 - [52] - Quote Jegrey Dozer wrote: Generally speaking, risk is proportional to ISK/hour. Edit: Oh and as a side remark, you make more ISK with 2 mining ships with no boosts compared to your current setup. rorq boosts yield by 100% with max links (between speed and amount mined) so IF you were factoring hauling out of the equation, ie, actually had the rorq on site like ccp wants, and mined directly into it, you make the same isk/hour with 2 hulks as 1 hulk 1 rorq. However, with incursions a single decently skilled player can make over 100m an hour between isk and LP. Same with fast blitzing level 4s. Or even soloing level 5s in a passive tengu. 100m an hour takes THREE or more hulk pilots. (or 2 + rorqual)
BrundleMeth Caldari Provisions Caldari State 290	Posted - 2014.11.01 10:25:36 - [53] - Quote This is an AFK cloaking thread isn't it???
Arronicus Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra 1211	Posted - 2014.11.01 12:40:50 - [54] - Quote Mark O'Helm wrote: Cant tell Ifserious wrote: I have a ishtar that makes about 21mil a tick in nullsec or around 80+mil an hour ratting hubs etc. Then i have a Rorq with max boosts and a mackinaw on another character mining, i cant even make close to that in nullsec. Why is this? Why does 1 character make more isk than 2. Why does a 200mil ship make more than a 2.5bil+ ship combo make less? shouldnt group play make more isk? ccp pls :( I make at least 60 mil/hour with 1 orca and 2 hulks mining blue ice in hs. I think thats pretty good. In null i guess i could make 100mil/hour by replacing the orc with a rorq. Am i wrong? Btw. While mining i watch tv or youtube on the second screen. Ignoring ice belt size for a minute here; 60m an hour with 1 orca 2 hulks. perfect orca boosts = 70% yield/hour boost. So your base yield on the 2 hulks is 35.28m/hour. Perfect rorq boosts = 100%, so your nullsec isk/hour = 70.56m. Lets say null ice is worth 15% more/hour, that puts you at 81.15mil an hour.
Mark O'Helm Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt 5	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:58:30 - [55] - Quote Arronicus wrote: Ignoring ice belt size for a minute here; 60m an hour with 1 orca 2 hulks. perfect orca boosts = 70% yield/hour boost. So your base yield on the 2 hulks is 35.28m/hour. Perfect rorq boosts = 100%, so your nullsec isk/hour = 70.56m. Lets say null ice is worth 15% more/hour, that puts you at 81.15mil an hour. My Orca Boost is not maxed out. Neither are my Hulks. And i mine ore too if the 3 Ice belts around my home are out. Its just more profitable, easier and more sozial to mine ice, together with 20 other pilots, then standing all day long alone in a belt, although its less stressful. So there is more to gain for me i guess. I cant wait to see the change of the rorqual to come. Sorry for my bad english.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2014.11.02 04:54:49 - [56] - Quote To put it simply: Selling ore and minerals is ultra competitive and people need high turnover compared to high profit. If Miners sold their ore for more, ships and modules would also have to increase their prices to sell profitably, and they'd have to then RISK not selling units as often. Same with miners. Everyone's willing to sell their time and effort as cheaply as possible because they don't want to opt for something better. [quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
Mark O'Helm Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt 5	Posted - 2014.11.02 05:25:11 - [57] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Everyone's willing to sell their time and effort as cheaply as possible because they don't want to opt for something better. Maybe i understand that incorrectly, but doesn't want everybody sell their time as highly as possible?
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2014.11.02 06:58:38 - [58] - Quote That's true, you'd think that, but then again look at how low people have to price their ore in order to sell. [quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
Mark O'Helm Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt 5	Posted - 2014.11.02 07:37:04 - [59] - Quote I only look for the best buy order in 2 regions (i live in a border system) and sell it right there. Blue ice = 240000 - 245000 isk. Would i refine ... i mean reprosses it. I would only make around 224000 isk. And i had to haul it a longer way. (There are 2 buyers, who try to outdo each other.) Better price for me.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 763	Posted - 2014.11.02 11:35:28 - [60] - Quote Cant tell Ifserious wrote: I have a ishtar that makes about 21mil a tick in nullsec or around 80+mil an hour ratting hubs etc. Then i have a Rorq with max boosts and a mackinaw on another character mining, i cant even make close to that in nullsec. Why is this? Why does 1 character make more isk than 2. Why does a 200mil ship make more than a 2.5bil+ ship combo make less? shouldnt group play make more isk? ccp pls :( because too many people farm afk-money, many have their own isbotter mining fleets.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8891	Posted - 2014.11.02 11:58:06 - [61] - Quote Cant tell Ifserious wrote: I have a ishtar that makes about 21mil a tick in nullsec or around 80+mil an hour ratting hubs etc. Then i have a Rorq with max boosts and a mackinaw on another character mining, i cant even make close to that in nullsec. Why is this? Why does 1 character make more isk than 2. Why does a 200mil ship make more than a 2.5bil+ ship combo make less? shouldnt group play make more isk? ccp pls :( 21 mil per tick is 63 mil per hour not 80. Perhaps your problem is basic math?
Dave stark 7117	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:09:36 - [62] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Kill all the other miners, then you will make a fortune. can't, ccp is removing awoxing.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 6606	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:15:16 - [63] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Kill all the other miners, then you will make a fortune. can't, ccp is removing awoxing. I'm pretty sure that more miners die each day to suicide ganks than have been destroyed in 10 years from awoxing. And no one is suggesting that ganking be removed. In fact, no one is suggesting that awoxing be removed either. Just that it has consequences. Find something to have a meltdown about that has a hint of reality to it. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 42	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:16:50 - [64] - Quote Petre en Thielles wrote: Cant tell Ifserious wrote: you cant afk mine in nullsec. You have to worry about battleship rat spawns that kick ur ass and over powered interceptors warping to your belt..... Sure you can. Just have one guy in the belt watching with fleet warp on. How is it afk if someone is at the keyboard waiting to hit fleet warp.
Sol Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 85	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:32:55 - [65] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Cant tell Ifserious wrote: I have a ishtar that makes about 21mil a tick in nullsec or around 80+mil an hour ratting hubs etc. Then i have a Rorq with max boosts and a mackinaw on another character mining, i cant even make close to that in nullsec. Why is this? Why does 1 character make more isk than 2. Why does a 200mil ship make more than a 2.5bil+ ship combo make less? shouldnt group play make more isk? ccp pls :( 21 mil per tick is 63 mil per hour not 80. Perhaps your problem is basic math? Isn't a tick every fifteen minutes?
Dave Stark 7117	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:35:12 - [66] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Kill all the other miners, then you will make a fortune. can't, ccp is removing awoxing. I'm pretty sure that more miners die each day to suicide ganks than have been destroyed in 10 years from awoxing. And no one is suggesting that ganking be removed. In fact, no one is suggesting that awoxing be removed either. Just that it has consequences. Find something to have a meltdown about that has a hint of reality to it. Mr Epeen we're talking about becoming rich... suicide ganking ain't cheap.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 6606	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:37:32 - [67] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Kill all the other miners, then you will make a fortune. can't, ccp is removing awoxing. I'm pretty sure that more miners die each day to suicide ganks than have been destroyed in 10 years from awoxing. And no one is suggesting that ganking be removed. In fact, no one is suggesting that awoxing be removed either. Just that it has consequences. Find something to have a meltdown about that has a hint of reality to it. Mr Epeen we're talking about becoming rich... suicide ganking ain't cheap. Then you're doing it wrong. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8891	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:58:56 - [68] - Quote Sol Project wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Cant tell Ifserious wrote: I have a ishtar that makes about 21mil a tick in nullsec or around 80+mil an hour ratting hubs etc. Then i have a Rorq with max boosts and a mackinaw on another character mining, i cant even make close to that in nullsec. Why is this? Why does 1 character make more isk than 2. Why does a 200mil ship make more than a 2.5bil+ ship combo make less? shouldnt group play make more isk? ccp pls :( 21 mil per tick is 63 mil per hour not 80. Perhaps your problem is basic math? Isn't a tick every fifteen minutes? 20
Dave Stark 7117	Posted - 2014.11.02 19:29:46 - [69] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Kill all the other miners, then you will make a fortune. can't, ccp is removing awoxing. I'm pretty sure that more miners die each day to suicide ganks than have been destroyed in 10 years from awoxing. And no one is suggesting that ganking be removed. In fact, no one is suggesting that awoxing be removed either. Just that it has consequences. Find something to have a meltdown about that has a hint of reality to it. Mr Epeen we're talking about becoming rich... suicide ganking ain't cheap. Then you're doing it wrong. Mr Epeen if you're ganking miners for their rocks, no amount of "doing it right" will make it particularly profitable.
Bluespot85 Cherry Popper Mining Company 13	Posted - 2014.11.02 19:34:26 - [70] - Quote Rowells wrote: Sadly, if mining was more profitable in isk terms, more people would do it, making it less profitable. That's the sad reality of being at the whims of market demands. it's not just that, the mineral values in all blueprints are wrong which makes mining unprofitable. Mineral values that are required by blueprints need to be altered to cater for todays game. It's crazy that blueprints need huge amounts of trit and very little zyd and mega, thats what is wrong with mining. Thats why mining trit in a 1.0 system will allways pay more than mega in a -1.0 system. If the values of zyd and mega required by blueprints were increased by a factor of 10 or more, then mining in 0.0 would become worthwhile, and give people plenty to fight over.
Altirius Saldiaro Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 174	Posted - 2014.11.02 21:18:40 - [71] - Quote I wish that making isk from mining was as lucrative as ratting. Doubt it will ever happen though.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1645	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:21:03 - [72] - Quote Bluespot85 wrote: Rowells wrote: Sadly, if mining was more profitable in isk terms, more people would do it, making it less profitable. That's the sad reality of being at the whims of market demands. it's not just that, the mineral values in all blueprints are wrong which makes mining unprofitable. Mineral values that are required by blueprints need to be altered to cater for todays game. It's crazy that blueprints need huge amounts of trit and very little zyd and mega, thats what is wrong with mining. Thats why mining trit in a 1.0 system will always pay more than mega in a -1.0 system. If the values of zyd and mega required by blueprints were increased by a factor of 10 or more, then mining in 0.0 would become worthwhile, and give people plenty to fight over. Other than the small fact it doesn't most of the time. Right now is one of the first times that Ark is worth less than Veld (Other ores have priced higher for a bit, but not Veld). And that you can mine Trit in a -1.0 system also with larger rocks, more rocks, AND better 5% & 10% ores. Anything you can mine in High or Low sec exists in Null also. Null miners are just so stuck in their ways they can't even think of doing anything but what the 5 year old guides say (Or their bots are too old and need updating). Null mining is always more profitable than High sec if you actually do it right.
Josef Djugashvilis 2639	Posted - 2014.11.03 07:42:09 - [73] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Kill all the other miners, then you will make a fortune. can't, ccp is removing awoxing. Sir, are you drunk? CCP has no intentions of removing suicide ganking. This is not a signature.
Vizjira Nanashi no Geemu FOX.HOUND 0	Posted - 2014.11.03 10:21:46 - [74] - Quote 1) Don't bring in other parts of the industrial chain to justify/evaluate the profitability of mining, you can always buy ore and do only the second part which means those processes have to be considered seperate 2) The entire problem can be explained in one single word: Scalability The problem with mining is that it is so amazingly simpel and passive that you can, esp given those handy and regrettably allowed tools like ISBoxer, just add more and more miners to your fleet with nearly proportional scaling. In one world you need 50 miners with 1 ship to satisfy the supply needs for x, in this world you can just have 1 miner with 50 ships - less hassle organizing, way less vulnurable to ganks in HS (loosing a ship as a single miner hurts/is a non issue in mboxing - allowing for thin tanked setups) etc. Or the other way around, if you single boxing can make a lot of money, someone else will get more and more chars until he reaches financial equilibrium and resets the system back to square one.
Nick Starkey Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 85	Posted - 2014.11.03 11:34:45 - [75] - Quote For the same reason every other easily scalable activity doesn't make much isk: because anyone can do it, with little effort and in large numbers. Since the value of minerals is fully related to market supply and demand, it is never going to be worth much when the barrier of entry is so miniscule. ..
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 763	Posted - 2014.11.03 13:18:48 - [76] - Quote Altirius Saldiaro wrote: I wish that making isk from mining was as lucrative as ratting. Doubt it will ever happen though. this wont happen as afk ratting isnt as easy as afk mining. Effort = Reward is somewhat valid in this formula.
Awesome MILF Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:03:50 - [77] - Quote Because of reprocessing loot stuff. This can bring billions of minerals so the ore from mining is less neccesary, thus prices drop. If CCP changed loot stuff, for example just spawn T2 items or rare expensive items, or just meta4 stuff that is a waste to reprocess...
Gallowmere Rorschach Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 800	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:27:50 - [78] - Quote Awesome MILF wrote: Because of reprocessing loot stuff. This can bring billions of minerals so the ore from mining is less neccesary, thus prices drop. If CCP changed loot stuff, for example just spawn T2 items or rare expensive items, or just meta4 stuff that is a waste to reprocess... Didn't reprocessing already get a boot to the nuts in the last few months?
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2889	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:42:32 - [79] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: this wont happen as afk ratting isnt as easy as afk mining. Effort = Reward is somewhat valid in this formula. Well, I don't know about it. I never saw my strip miners going postal on rocks by themselves and my bouncers quite often melt rats even when I get lost in archives of redtube :) Invalid signature format
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 5043	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:02:24 - [80] - Quote I think passive mining should be less profitable than it is now, while hands-on, competetive mining should be of greater reward, while the medium of somewhat interactive mining stays around the same. But that would require new mining mechanics. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Phedina Borbonica Claws of the Demon Skeleton Crew. 0	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:33:55 - [81] - Quote "hands-on, competetive mining" Lol
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 5043	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:49:42 - [82] - Quote Phedina Borbonica wrote: "hands-on, competetive mining" Lol Small volume high value veins that need active moving around rocks, scanning and luck, thus hands-on. Limited amount of those means competition through extinction pressure. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1169	Posted - 2014.11.04 06:03:44 - [83] - Quote Abrazzar wrote: Phedina Borbonica wrote: "hands-on, competetive mining" Lol Small volume high value veins that need active moving around rocks, scanning and luck, thus hands-on. Limited amount of those means competition through extinction pressure. You are suggesting mining anoms as a new exploration activity ? Curious. May actually work.
Skydell Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums 641	Posted - 2014.11.04 07:20:08 - [84] - Quote Altirius Saldiaro wrote: I wish that making isk from mining was as lucrative as ratting. Doubt it will ever happen though. I guarantee it never will. NPCs pay bounties, players buy minerals and they need an income to pay for those minerals. Mining missions need A LOT of love before mining becomes a faucet.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6480	Posted - 2014.11.04 07:20:34 - [85] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Awesome MILF wrote: Because of reprocessing loot stuff. This can bring billions of minerals so the ore from mining is less neccesary, thus prices drop. If CCP changed loot stuff, for example just spawn T2 items or rare expensive items, or just meta4 stuff that is a waste to reprocess... Didn't reprocessing already get a boot to the nuts in the last few months? Yeah, it was nerfed. Among other reasons, preventing this form of gunmining was one consideration... Not that it was PARTICULARLY major in the first place, though (modules I mean) ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Rek Seven Probe Patrol 1954	Posted - 2014.11.04 07:54:28 - [86] - Quote Because high sec has too much of the different ores. +1
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 1828	Posted - 2014.11.04 11:25:21 - [87] - Quote Hasikan Miallok wrote: Abrazzar wrote: Phedina Borbonica wrote: "hands-on, competetive mining" Lol Small volume high value veins that need active moving around rocks, scanning and luck, thus hands-on. Limited amount of those means competition through extinction pressure. You are suggesting mining anoms as a new exploration activity ? Curious. May actually work. I don't think mining will ever be more complicated than it currently is. It needs to be doable by people who run 30 character operations on their own. They make good money and are probably part of the reason why mining is a bad way to make ISK for everyone else.
Sol Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2014.11.04 17:31:50 - [88] - Quote People who ask this show that they have no clue how the game works. I need a stack/queue for mass payments of ISK ingame Click the above link!
Seven Koskanaiken The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 1363	Posted - 2014.11.04 18:52:02 - [89] - Quote Prime Arkonor is the rarest of the rare; the king of ores. Giving a 10% greater mineral yield than regular ark, this is the stuff that makes billionaires out of people lucky enough to stumble upon a vein. The rarest and most sought-after ore in the known universe. A sizable nugget of this can sweep anyone from rags to riches in no time.
Dave Stark 7119	Posted - 2014.11.04 19:06:54 - [90] - Quote Seven Koskanaiken wrote: Prime Arkonor is the rarest of the rare; the king of ores. Giving a 10% greater mineral yield than regular ark, this is the stuff that makes billionaires out of people lucky enough to stumble upon a vein. The rarest and most sought-after ore in the known universe. A sizable nugget of this can sweep anyone from rags to riches in no time. i lol'd

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