Why, because you say so?

Now we enter another idiotic debate where you say it's risk-free PvP, and in comes people with actual experience to tell you it's not, and you deny facts, logic, and reason and kiss CCP's butt because you want to be safer in HiSec.

I'm ready to unsub my accounts basically any time at this point.

No point in staying subbed... once EVE goes themepark it'll go the way of all the other themepark MMOs.

In it's place some other small, niche, dark game will pop up to satisfy people who actually enjoy hard games without having their hands held.

(which is ironic because you said "grow a pair") I'm just going to hide your posts. Bye bye.

Ships blowing up always benifit the game. People produce ships, if ships didn't explode nothing any of us do in EVE would worth anything.

The appeal of EVE to many of us was that there was supposed to be no comfort zone. Anyone that's looking for a comfort zone is playing the wrong game. Looking for comfort zones in EVE is like getting in a plane but never taking off. Unfortunately, it seems that won't be the case for much longer. It looks like a day is coming where EVE will only be EVE by name, but the game it is/was will no longer exist.

EVE was originally created by people who didn't like the PVP restrictions in Ultima Online. Now they're going in a completely opposite direction, and handing it over to the same kinds of people who ruing Ultima.

Point is slippery slope we been going down. Wardecs are next. Once people still stay in npc corps after this change ccp will see its cuz wardecs and supanerf em. Heard here 1st

PROS:

1. Easier player corp management (less time working, more time playing).
2. Player corps would still be vulnerable to corp thieves (so some work is still necessary).
3. Potentially more players in player corps (i.e. more wardec targets).
4. Potentially more players in the game overall (i.e. more targets, period).

CONS:

1. No more Safaris.


I can't possibly imagine how some lulzmails generated in a Safari could outweigh the pros of removing AWOXxing. And I say this as a general non-carebear who enjoys creating content.

I've come to realize that goons were doing it right, quickly ejecting their new players from high sec before they could become brainwashed lol. I now encourage new players to get the hell out of high sec as soon as possible, and avoid pve only high sec corps if they don't stay with my group.

Once you get out into the wider world, our new players need to join a social group. Except that hisec corporations are skittish about letting 'new players' join because of hisec awoxing: griefers such as my own space-tribe joining a corporation and then murderzoning the membership through a loophole in Concord enforcement - you can join a corp and attack anyone in your own corporation, even in hisec. Here's another sacred cow to slaughter: hisec awoxing is absolutely stupid from a business and retention perspective as it disincentivizes players from reaching out to genuine confused newbies. The dueling mechanic completely removes the 'need' for corp members to shoot one another outside of Concord enforcement.

Hey Mike, since you're so fixated on "makes sense" in regards to CONCORD ignoring inter corporate violence.

Tell me how it "makes sense" that if they can't be asked to show up in a mission pocket to shoot the NPC actual pirates, that they can just appear by magic if a player shoots at another player.

Please tell me how that "makes sense" and isn't exactly the kind of arbitrary thing you're claiming to crusade against.

If they won't show up to shoot the rats, I think they shouldn't show up at all. "Makes sense", right?

Or we can admit to ourselves that absolutely nothing about the Infallible Magic Space Police makes sense, and just talk about game mechanics without hiding behind non logic false flags. Because if you want it to "make sense", they should not exist in the first place, let alone have unstoppable weapons.

It does preclude you from pointing that finger at others.

So let's knock off the "makes sense" bullshit, and talk about it on it's own merits, or lack thereof.

Furthermore, CCP should not be concerned with the kind of people who "level their Raven and then quit", because they'd be quitting anyway. This game will never attract AND keep such people, they treat it like it's a Facebook game.

Prove that it does.

Awoxing is no more "the soul of the game" than jumping 50 supers to gank a bumped titan 100 lightyears away. Both are a simple consequence of mechanics, and both can (and will) be removed in a likely fashion.

[quote=Kaarous Aldurald]"If you remove awoxing, you will have more targets! ... for the mechanics that don't actually work like wardecs."

You lot expect us to swallow that nonsense?

No, that's just suicide ganking. That existed before, and I can do 100% it without being in their corp beforehand. Also, as a largely solo player, my choice of targets is sharply limited by the unreasonable restrictions on this playstyle. While on the other hand, wardecs are toothless.

Stop with the disingenuous nonsense already.

You're ****ing kidding me.

So... you actually think that PvP should require jumping through that many hoops, just to get the slightest chance to kill somebody? I just want to make sure you actually believe what you're telling me here, because I can barely believe it myself.

If you think that's all that awoxing entails, then you're a fool.

You actually think pvp should require nothing more than joining some daft fool's corp? I just want to make sure you actually believe what you're telling me here, because I can barely believe it myself.

No, I can still get into the their corps.

Being able to do anything in any way after that is what is proposed to be removed.

Api exists and they could take 2 minutes to check to see if "ikillblues420" has killed corpmates instead of having :ccp: do it for them.

By killing me while I am awoxing them, they aren't helpless and can fit guns to any ship with hard points.

Which means that awoxing ceases to exist, since what you described is suicide ganking and already exists.

if you want to stop people awoxing with such impunity, fix the broken neutral logi mechanics.

Yeah, this is very puzzling. I bet he is only in that goon corp to awox the **** out of them.

Here's another sacred cow to slaughter: hisec awoxing is absolutely stupid from a business and retention perspective as it disincentivizes players from reaching out to genuine confused newbies.

Or you can just tell us the real reason why you insist in discussing CODE. business with "Veers Belvar"-level "arguments" rather than the actual topic at hand?

As you've been repeatedly told, that turns it into a suicide gank, so for all intents and purposes awoxing is being removed.

There is criticism and there is delusional rambling about made up facts and fantasies. It's fun when it starts, usually because the level of stupid is so surprisingly high. But it gets old very fast.

Solving a psychological issue via game mechanics.

Currently it's possible for the awoxer to lose his ship at the hands of the people being awoxed. There is no guaranteed outcome, which renders your "equations" invalid.

Because its a symptomatic treatment instead of treating the cause of the problem.

Thanks

lol I'm not denying that awoxers target newbie friendly corps, but they don't exclusively target them. They target pretty much anybody that will recruit them, which includes corps that should know better as well as newbie friendly ones.

Apples to oranges, is EVE the real world? No it isn't treating this symptom with a hamfisted attempt is only going to make the overall cause and problem worse. Not only that it's a waste of resources when they could be working on the cause instead of trying random crap.

No it isn't treating this symptom with a hamfisted attempt is only going to make the overall cause and problem worse. Not only that it's a waste of resources when they could be working on the cause instead of trying random crap.

It was never about preying on new players like every pro-highsec person wants to assert. It was about preying on people with more isk than brains. Lowsec corporations were not targets as much because they were more aware of the potential for violence than the deliberately ignorant highsec corporations.

If the corp leadership is ignorant of game mechanics then they shouldn't be leading a corp, and they definitely shouldn't be recruiting newbies.
IMHO a corp that recruits newbies should be in a position to teach those newbies how to protect themselves, without knowledge of game mechanics they aren't in a position to do so, thus they shouldn't be recruiting newbies.

Post change lowsec, wh's and null will be the only places in which awoxing can happen, the leadership of corps in those areas of space tend to be more savvy than the average highsec corp and thus less likely to recruit without practising due diligence; although there are always exceptions.

I'm aware of that those corporations are the same as the lowsec example I provided. We're here talking about highsec.

Wrong. They were called assassinations or sprees before the awox tag.

Imagine if there were areas without concord that had limited resources that were worth the :effort: and fighting over.

I can't say I disagree tbh. Personally I won't join a corp that doesn't run checks on recruits, it shows incompetence and laziness IMHO.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but awoxing back then was relatively rare and those entities have learnt from it, and embraced the practice to use against others.

Nowadays it's a well publicised practice, yet people still recruit obvious awoxers without doing the most basic of checks, you only have to look at the amount of awoxs Psychotic Monk managed to pull off despite the characters he was using having killboards full of green on green shenanigans.

There's already a thread I made about this in the past and provided data for that shows why you are full of swap.avi on this point.

-see post history.

Removing the ability to engage in any direct PVP element without losing a ship does not directly hurt new players.

Use the search function it does not take much effort to find the thread use "highsec reward" as your term.

Where'd you guys leave the keys to fountain, if you don't mind my asking? Seeing as it's not worth the :effort: ...

So why not remove War Dec's then?

I am sure War Dec's cause a lot more people to stay in NPC Corps and lose more new players then axowing does.

I have never heard of a Corp to fold because of an axower where as according to many people War dec's have and continue to do so.

Yet your justification is "it makes sense" instead of anything well reasoned.