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Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2014.10.30 17:50:47 -
[1] - Quote
Since IGÇÖve started playing EVE, one thing has been bothering me: the pointlessness of the bulk of PVP.
Now, IGÇÖm not questioning the fun factor. Each player will have their own definition of fun. IGÇÖm more puzzled by its lack of in-game benefit. I think most will agree that PVP is, at best, a poor isk maker or, at worst, a money sink (some form of well-planned piracy excluded). Consider some common PVP activities: FW plex hunting, when youGÇÖre not in a militia, low-sec roams, gate camping, high-sec corp wardecs, high-sec ganking or missioner baiting. They all share the same things: relatively easy, little preparation required and little to lose or gain (for the attacker at least). I get that GÇ£Some men just want to watch the world burnGÇ¥. But I want to imagine some nefarious evil scheming in the darkness of space. Instead, we have psycho capsuleers on booster induced rampages shooting at everything for no particular reason.
I would like players to blow things up more because they want to, need to and less because they canGǪ Maybe IGÇÖm too rational a guy, but I think it would cool for the EVE villains to be more Pr. Moriarty and less the Joker.
Anyway, any suggestion to make fighting more meaningful in general in EVE? |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6992
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 17:55:11 -
[2] - Quote
I know some industrialist types that benefit greatly in-game from shooty-shooty PVP.
Rule #34 (no, not that one)
" War is good for business. "
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
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R0mparkin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.10.30 17:57:02 -
[3] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote:Since IGÇÖve started playing EVE, one thing has been bothering me: the pointlessness of the bulk of PVP.
Now, IGÇÖm not questioning the fun factor. Each player will have their own definition of fun. IGÇÖm more puzzled by its lack of in-game benefit. I think most will agree that PVP is, at best, a poor isk maker or, at worst, a money sink (some form of well-planned piracy excluded). Consider some common PVP activities: FW plex hunting, when youGÇÖre not in a militia, low-sec roams, gate camping, high-sec corp wardecs, high-sec ganking or missioner baiting. They all share the same things: relatively easy, little preparation required and little to lose or gain (for the attacker at least). I get that GÇ£Some men just want to watch the world burnGÇ¥. But I want to imagine some nefarious evil scheming in the darkness of space. Instead, we have psycho capsuleers on booster induced rampages shooting at everything for no particular reason.
I would like players to blow things up more because they want to, need to and less because they canGǪ Maybe IGÇÖm too rational a guy, but I think it would cool for the EVE villains to be more Pr. Moriarty and less the Joker.
Anyway, any suggestion to make fighting more meaningful in general in EVE?
Few things to consider about EvE
1 Its not for everyone
2 you get out of it what you put into it :EFFORT:
3 Its not for everyone |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
17434
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Posted - 2014.10.30 17:57:10 -
[4] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote: I think it would cool for the EVE villains to be more Pr. Moriarty and less the Joker.
Its simple Mr Holmes.. we gank the Batman.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:00:23 -
[5] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:I know some industrialist types that benefit greatly in-game from shooty-shooty PVP.
Rule #34 (no, not that one)
" War is good for business. "
PVP happens to create a market opportunity for the industrialists, they profit from it, but they don't organize it. Well, in EVE at least. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6992
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:05:38 -
[6] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I know some industrialist types that benefit greatly in-game from shooty-shooty PVP.
Rule #34 (no, not that one)
" War is good for business. " PVP happens to create a market opportunity for the industrialists, they profit from it, but they don't organize it. Well, in EVE at least.
Really? You are 100% sure of that after playing less than a year?
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
|
Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:11:02 -
[7] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Mooh Bear wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I know some industrialist types that benefit greatly in-game from shooty-shooty PVP.
Rule #34 (no, not that one)
" War is good for business. " PVP happens to create a market opportunity for the industrialists, they profit from it, but they don't organize it. Well, in EVE at least. Really? You are 100% sure of that after playing less than a year?
Do I believe some groups encourage and support other players to blow ships for profit? Sure. Do I believe the majority of the PVP I mentioned falls into that category? No. |
Marsha Mallow
1637
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:12:35 -
[8] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote: Do I believe the majority of the PVP I mentioned falls into that category? No.
What do you believe PVP stands for?
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
288
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:15:30 -
[9] - Quote
No I understand the OPs sentiment and I share it to some extent. Im much less zerg and more cerebral, in fact thats why I enjoy Eves many complexities, and want to fight for a good reason or cause not just mindless PvP for its own sake. Thats why I have never been much into shooters and couldnt handle much WoTs as its mostly just that. I do enjoy it on occasion though so Im not entirely adverse to it.
Yet that being said I think that most people dont see it that way regarding PvP games. The purpose for most people is the enjoyment of destruction for its own sake and for them that is enough. Some need or want more to engage in it and some I think are really adverse to destructive tendencies and want to construct things and so wont engage in any PvP at all unless theyre getting ganked.
I also think that there is more than enough PvP to suit most tastes in Eve, but for the greater purposes youll probably have to dig deeper. Fighting FOR something rather than fighting just because will be a big step towards what youre looking for. So go out and find a group of people that are worth fighting for, and together find a reason to fight. Common goals will help a lot in this area.
Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace
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Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Mooh Bear wrote: Do I believe the majority of the PVP I mentioned falls into that category? No. What do you believe PVP stands for?
In that instance:
Quote:FW plex hunting, when youGÇÖre not in a militia, low-sec roams, gate camping, high-sec corp wardecs, high-sec ganking or missioner baiting
As mentioned in the first post. |
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:21:33 -
[11] - Quote
PvP in Eve for the most part is ganking and griefing.
Sure its content, the lowest form of it.
Sadly, that is the type of pvp player that makes up most of Eve atm. |
Cynadore
3 R Corporation
7
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:25:30 -
[12] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote: PVP is, at best, a poor isk maker or, at worst, a money sink
Not a single ISK is removed from the economy through the loss of a ship. PvP is a material sink. It's actually an ISK faucet, through insurance payouts. The money you pay for your ship and modules changes from your wallet to the manufacturers' wallets. It does not disappear. I realize it might look like a "money sink" if you look at your wallet only, but this is not the case. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6993
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:26:59 -
[13] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Mooh Bear wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I know some industrialist types that benefit greatly in-game from shooty-shooty PVP.
Rule #34 (no, not that one)
" War is good for business. " PVP happens to create a market opportunity for the industrialists, they profit from it, but they don't organize it. Well, in EVE at least. Really? You are 100% sure of that after playing less than a year? Do I believe some groups encourage and support other players to blow ships for profit? Sure. Do I believe the majority of the PVP I mentioned falls into that category? No.
Moving the goalposts to defend your OP invalidates your position..
You said there was no in-game benefit, and I presented one. You then said industrialists did not organize PVP and when challenged you now want to change your position to something else.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
|
Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:29:53 -
[14] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Mooh Bear wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Mooh Bear wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I know some industrialist types that benefit greatly in-game from shooty-shooty PVP.
Rule #34 (no, not that one)
" War is good for business. " PVP happens to create a market opportunity for the industrialists, they profit from it, but they don't organize it. Well, in EVE at least. Really? You are 100% sure of that after playing less than a year? Do I believe some groups encourage and support other players to blow ships for profit? Sure. Do I believe the majority of the PVP I mentioned falls into that category? No. Moving the goalposts to defend your OP invalidates your position.. You said there was no in-game benefit, and I presented one. You then said industrialists did not organize PVP and when challenged you now want to change your position to something else.
I don't think we're talking about the same thing here. Point taken anyway. |
Marsha Mallow
1637
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:32:24 -
[15] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote:FW plex hunting, when youGÇÖre not in a militia, low-sec roams, gate camping, high-sec corp wardecs, high-sec ganking or missioner baiting
As mentioned in the first post.
PVP = Player vs Player. Not Pewer vs Pewer.
The term can be applied to the player driven market as well as combat activities. Actually trade and heavy industry can be a more ruthless arena to engage in than combat and requires significant preparation and execution. It's one of the few areas you can excel as a solo player.
If your ingame activities are measured in terms of profitability you will probably find it a bit difficult to understand the appeal of player driven combat.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2014.10.30 18:37:36 -
[16] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Mooh Bear wrote:FW plex hunting, when youGÇÖre not in a militia, low-sec roams, gate camping, high-sec corp wardecs, high-sec ganking or missioner baiting
As mentioned in the first post. PVP = Player vs Player. Not Pewer vs Pewer. The term can be applied to the player driven market as well as combat activities. Actually trade and heavy industry can be a more ruthless arena to engage in than combat and requires significant preparation and execution. It's one of the few areas you can excel as a solo player. If your ingame activities are measured in terms of profitability you will probably find it a bit difficult to understand the appeal of player driven combat.
Precisely. And I think it's not a good thing. Why does it have to be this way? Making ship fights more important overall in a ship fighting game seems like a good feature to me. |
Marsha Mallow
1638
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote:Precisely. And I think it's not a good thing. Why does it have to be this way? Making ship fights more important overall in a ship fighting game seems like a good feature to me.
The combat you describe doesn't include mercing, null or wormholes - which (in theory, at least) is where the money is. Fighting over areas of space which have assets you can extract is the reward. If ships lost for corp/alliance ops are covered by SRP policies it's generally just an exchange of time for the right to exploit the space you have access to.
I see your point though. Generally combat isn't a great earner, which is annoying for people who hate grinding to fund their hobby. If anything it's a time and ISK sink, which you have to finance by taking up a second job in the form of a mini-profession.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
636
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:48:19 -
[18] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Mooh Bear wrote:FW plex hunting, when youGÇÖre not in a militia, low-sec roams, gate camping, high-sec corp wardecs, high-sec ganking or missioner baiting
As mentioned in the first post. PVP = Player vs Player. Not Pewer vs Pewer. The term can be applied to the player driven market as well as combat activities. Actually trade and heavy industry can be a more ruthless arena to engage in than combat and requires significant preparation and execution. It's one of the few areas you can excel as a solo player. If your ingame activities are measured in terms of profitability you will probably find it a bit difficult to understand the appeal of player driven combat.
It's less of a competition than you think.
The reason all T1 ships sell for 'below mineral value' is because production cost in exclusive zones is lower than most of us can imagine. As I sit in a .6 station making an Omen, someone deep in Null has a .5 fuel block cost, .4 time cost that impacts the production cost, I was cut out of the race and didn't even know it.
On the military side, most of EVE can be determined from a spreadsheet. There is really no need to practice and no cost benefit to it or even cost effective ways to try. While Canada and the US can sit in the Atlantic and have War games, Goons can't and while I have seen them try, people don't show up because the outcome is all that matters.
EVE is a means to an end.
I have no immediate idea on how to change that. None that can't be exploited anyway. |
Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 19:02:27 -
[19] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:
I see your point though. Generally combat isn't a great earner, which is annoying for people who hate grinding to fund their hobby. If anything it's a time and ISK sink, which you have to finance by taking up a second job in the form of a mini-profession.
The lack of incentive is driving the current state of combat. If there's no reason to shoot a ship then any ship will do :/ |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated
Executive Outcomes
677
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 19:11:38 -
[20] - Quote
Both exist in the environment.
Not every madman with an autocannon, zooming through space to kill and get a kick out of fighting has to be a mastermind. They're just people who like to fight - from psychos to honorable warriors (as rare as they might be).
There are masterful criminals that run their latest, revolutionary scam and making billions by fooling gullible people into following them. Beyond that, there are also nullsec masterminds who do, in fact, scheme and plot - signing pacts, breaking them, maneuvering around each other and fighting. To quote the Tyrannis trailer - "Your interests may align with some, and with others - collide with the force of suns".
EVE is a game so diverse it's hard to put all those who do PvP into one bag. Some are, in fact, the in-game equivalent of madmen doped up on boosters, rampaging through space (despite likely being cool cats in reality). Others are merely grunts in an army of one 0.0 warlord or another, and most of their fights have a strategic objective - they're just a cog in the machine.
Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986
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Serene Repose
1583
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Posted - 2014.10.31 02:49:22 -
[21] - Quote
PvP is pointless, insofar as organized society is concerned. That's why it's against the law everywhere. Want to test this? Get in a barfight. Tell the cop, "He started it!" See if that saves you a night of hospitality from the local constabulary.
Why is PvP such a big part of MMOs (or sandboxes  )? It isn't. CCP's own figures show only 20% (or so) of their players want to PvP. There are these testosterone driven adolescent (arrested developments included here) types who just haven't gotten this rowdy behavior out of their systems...YET. (Emphasis on the "yet".) They will. They always do. Even if they're sitting in a jail cell for it, they come around to society's way of thinking - PvP is pointless.
It's not worth the disruption. It's not worth the broken furniture. It's not worth the trip to the ER to get everyone sewn back up. It's not worth the loss of the peace and serenity that allows for the positive development and growth of creativity - and so creation. It's also annoying to have to listen to the ne'er do wells who prate endlessly about how PvP MAKES THIS GAME AND WITHOUT IT...right, we'll all DIE.
We're all gonna die anyway. It's just that, we don't want to get there as FAST as some people seem to want to...now. As I said, they'll eventually come around. Of course, in the process we have to put up with them, apparently. (In real life that's what my brogan-shod right foot is for - planting it in an area where the sun don't shine - three-legged race to the ER and all that.)
Welcome to civilization.
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
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Istyn
Freight Club
363
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:22:12 -
[22] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote: IGÇÖm more puzzled by its lack of in-game benefit. I think most will agree that PVP is, at best, a poor isk maker
You're doing it wrong. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
815
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:23:23 -
[23] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:I know some industrialist types that benefit greatly in-game from shooty-shooty PVP.
Rule #34 (no, not that one)
" War is good for business. "
Rule 34 on Doc Fury go
Not today spaghetti.
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Jaari Val'Dara
Grim Sleepers
Ocularis Inferno
101
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Posted - 2014.10.31 18:13:02 -
[24] - Quote
Imagine this - we are immortal capsuleers, so far beyond ordinary humans that we no longer feel any connection with them. When you have the budgets of empires and spaceships that could burn planets, what would you actually want to do. Have fun obviously and conflict is fun.
It's very meta. |
DaReaper
Net 7
1178
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 18:41:12 -
[25] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:PvP is pointless, insofar as organized society is concerned. That's why it's against the law everywhere. Want to test this? Get in a barfight. Tell the cop, "He started it!" See if that saves you a night of hospitality from the local constabulary. Why is PvP such a big part of MMOs (or sandboxes )? It isn't. CCP's own figures show only 20% (or so) of their players want to PvP. There are these testosterone driven adolescent (arrested developments included here) types who just haven't gotten this rowdy behavior out of their systems...YET. (Emphasis on the "yet".) They will. They always do. Even if they're sitting in a jail cell for it, they come around to society's way of thinking - PvP is pointless. It's not worth the disruption. It's not worth the broken furniture. It's not worth the trip to the ER to get everyone sewn back up. It's not worth the loss of the peace and serenity that allows for the positive development and growth of creativity - and so creation. It's also annoying to have to listen to the ne'er do wells who prate endlessly about how PvP MAKES THIS GAME AND WITHOUT IT...right, we'll all DIE. We're all gonna die anyway. It's just that, we don't want to get there as FAST as some people seem to want to...now. As I said, they'll eventually come around. Of course, in the process we have to put up with them, apparently. (In real life that's what my brogan-shod right foot is for - planting it in an area where the sun don't shine - three-legged race to the ER and all that.) Welcome to civilization.
Not entirely true. But it depends on how you define pvp. And in the real world, you are technically pvping everyone, every second of everyday.
If you think PVP is just violent acts, be they a fist fight in a bar, or two ships in eve shooting each other, then yes your point is valid. But that's not what player vs player, or irl's human vs human is. PVP NEVER ends. Much like the idiots who don't think they will ever use algebra but they use it everyday without even understanding that it is what they are doing.
Every time you go on a date to try to make a gf/bf/get laid you are pvping, not in a violent way, but your are trying to outmaneuver your partner to each your own goal. In the work force, you compete indirectly against your co workers, for bonus, praise, hours, money, promotions, etc. Everyday you complete aging another human. You just don't think about it.
The same as eve, everyone completes against each other, it could be you trying to sell your item for the most money possible by undercutting someone, you wanting to mine all the ice in this belt as fast as you can. You want to get that bonus in this missing faster so look for the best price and ways to get in and out. You are ALWAYS completing against another person. Its part of the human condition and part of our nature. its unavoidable.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2014.10.31 18:48:37 -
[26] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:
Every time you go on a date to try to make a gf/bf/get laid you are pvping, not in a violent way, but your are trying to outmaneuver your partner to each your own goal.
That's a pretty ****** way of dealing with a potential partner. No offense, but you sound like a douche here.
What about actually caring about that person? Showing empathy and respect for their needs and desires? |
DaReaper
Net 7
1178
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 18:53:03 -
[27] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote:DaReaper wrote:
Every time you go on a date to try to make a gf/bf/get laid you are pvping, not in a violent way, but your are trying to outmaneuver your partner to each your own goal.
That's a pretty ****** way of dealing with a potential partner. No offense, but you sound like a douche here. What about actually caring about that person? Showing empathy and respect for their needs and desires?
Correct, that's is still a form of pvping. Any and all human interaction is a form of pvping. You may care about someone and want to date and be with them, so you will do things to try and 'win them over' by either, being nice, kind, sweet, treating them like trash, whatever. You are still interacting with someone and using the tools you have to try and make the like and want to be with you. And not just in dating, you treat various people differently for various reasons. There is prolly a friend that you are 'nice to' and another that you trash talk with and others might say you treat like dirt, but that's your relationship with said person. Its all about adapting and competeing for whatever your goal or prize is. You just do it without thinking about it, cause its ingrain in your thought process.
Its not a douche observation if you actually think about it. We as humans are selfish creatures, but when we want to be without, we fight out own nature to try and be what they want. *shrugs* you just do it without even really thinking about it. But in dating you are competing against others with the same goal, being with someone you are interested in. you just have to be whatever they want most.
And no, not really a douche irl, a blunt ******* as my wife will agree to, but douche? naw.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2014.10.31 19:45:27 -
[28] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Mooh Bear wrote:DaReaper wrote:
Every time you go on a date to try to make a gf/bf/get laid you are pvping, not in a violent way, but your are trying to outmaneuver your partner to each your own goal.
That's a pretty ****** way of dealing with a potential partner. No offense, but you sound like a douche here. What about actually caring about that person? Showing empathy and respect for their needs and desires? Correct, that's is still a form of pvping. Any and all human interaction is a form of pvping. You may care about someone and want to date and be with them, so you will do things to try and 'win them over' by either, being nice, kind, sweet, treating them like trash, whatever. You are still interacting with someone and using the tools you have to try and make the like and want to be with you. And not just in dating, you treat various people differently for various reasons. There is prolly a friend that you are 'nice to' and another that you trash talk with and others might say you treat like dirt, but that's your relationship with said person. Its all about adapting and competeing for whatever your goal or prize is. You just do it without thinking about it, cause its ingrain in your thought process. Its not a douche observation if you actually think about it. We as humans are selfish creatures, but when we want to be without, we fight out own nature to try and be what they want. *shrugs* you just do it without even really thinking about it. But in dating you are competing against others with the same goal, being with someone you are interested in. you just have to be whatever they want most. And no, not really a douche irl, a blunt ******* as my wife will agree to, but douche? naw.
We have a different values then. I don't talk trash to my friends or my wife. I respect them. I don't try to cajole, deceive or coerce them to do my bidding. Friends don't do that to friends. People to that to competitors or enemies.
I don't see any mention of collaboration, working together or compromising in your statement. Just "I do what I need to get what I want, everybody else be damned".
As far as dating is concerned, hiding your true self to seduce your "target" and out-compete others, that may get you laid; however, that's a poor foundation for a relationship. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc.
Illusion of Solitude
1327
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Posted - 2014.10.31 20:48:38 -
[29] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Mooh Bear wrote:DaReaper wrote:
Every time you go on a date to try to make a gf/bf/get laid you are pvping, not in a violent way, but your are trying to outmaneuver your partner to each your own goal.
That's a pretty ****** way of dealing with a potential partner. No offense, but you sound like a douche here. What about actually caring about that person? Showing empathy and respect for their needs and desires? Correct, that's is still a form of pvping. Any and all human interaction is a form of pvping. You may care about someone and want to date and be with them, so you will do things to try and 'win them over' by either, being nice, kind, sweet, treating them like trash, whatever. You are still interacting with someone and using the tools you have to try and make the like and want to be with you. And not just in dating, you treat various people differently for various reasons. There is prolly a friend that you are 'nice to' and another that you trash talk with and others might say you treat like dirt, but that's your relationship with said person. Its all about adapting and competeing for whatever your goal or prize is. You just do it without thinking about it, cause its ingrain in your thought process. Its not a douche observation if you actually think about it. We as humans are selfish creatures, but when we want to be without, we fight out own nature to try and be what they want. *shrugs* you just do it without even really thinking about it. But in dating you are competing against others with the same goal, being with someone you are interested in. you just have to be whatever they want most. And no, not really a douche irl, a blunt ******* as my wife will agree to, but douche? naw.
Other human beings have an entirely different philosophy and would choose ANY alternative other than thinking and behaving this way. And selfish creature and Human do not belong in the same sentence, possibly you are doing it wrong?
[u]_There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE _[/u]
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
392
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Posted - 2014.10.31 21:48:08 -
[30] - Quote
I'm fighting to restore Pithum C-Type Invulnerability Fields to 500+ mil a piece. It's a small goal, but a tough fight, and I'm not having much success. Perhaps in part because I can't be arsed to play this game every day. Give me a hand? |
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Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
5
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Posted - 2014.10.31 22:02:59 -
[31] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:I'm fighting to restore Pithum C-Type Invulnerability Fields to 500+ mil a piece. It's a small goal, but a tough fight, and I'm not having much success. Perhaps in part because I can't be arsed to play this game every day. Give me a hand?
Shooting ships might help with that. You'd need a good intel network to identify targets carrying that module and gank squads to blow them up 
Or you could just try to corner the market? Buy all of the orders <500M and control the supply. The volume traded isn't that high. |
Jason Xado
Xado Industries
182
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 22:03:41 -
[32] - Quote
EvE is a sandbox. Any PvP you wish to participate in has as much meaning as you want to give it.
I can assure you that there is a lot of meaningful and rewarding PvP happening in EvE. |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
147
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 22:47:39 -
[33] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:I know some industrialist types that benefit greatly in-game from shooty-shooty PVP.
Rule #34 (no, not that one)
" War is good for business. "
They benefit from PvP in general, but their personal contributions to PvP are negligible. |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
147
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 22:50:01 -
[34] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:PvP in Eve for the most part is ganking and griefing.
Sure its content, the lowest form of it.
Sadly, that is the type of pvp player that makes up most of Eve atm.
Well there isn't anything to fight over. Unless I want null sov or to evict someone from wormholes, there is very little to actually fight over. |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
147
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 22:51:21 -
[35] - Quote
Cynadore wrote:Mooh Bear wrote: PVP is, at best, a poor isk maker or, at worst, a money sink Not a single ISK is removed from the economy through the loss of a ship. PvP is a material sink. It's actually an ISK faucet, through insurance payouts. The money you pay for your ship and modules changes from your wallet to the manufacturers' wallets. It does not disappear. I realize it might look like a "money sink" if you look at your wallet only, but this is not the case.
Pod loss is an isk sink. You have to update your clone and if you have any implants those cost isk. |
Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 23:35:53 -
[36] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:Cynadore wrote:Mooh Bear wrote: PVP is, at best, a poor isk maker or, at worst, a money sink Not a single ISK is removed from the economy through the loss of a ship. PvP is a material sink. It's actually an ISK faucet, through insurance payouts. The money you pay for your ship and modules changes from your wallet to the manufacturers' wallets. It does not disappear. I realize it might look like a "money sink" if you look at your wallet only, but this is not the case. Pod loss is an isk sink. You have to update your clone and if you have any implants those cost isk.
That was a specious argument from Tear Jar anyway. Your in-game wealth is not determined only by your wallet. Your assets count as well. If all your assets are destroyed, it won't affect your wallet. But no one would argue you haven't lost any wealthor that those assets had no isk value. |
Serene Repose
1584
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 23:48:12 -
[37] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Serene Repose wrote:PvP is pointless, insofar as organized society is concerned. That's why it's against the law everywhere. Want to test this? Get in a barfight. Tell the cop, "He started it!" See if that saves you a night of hospitality from the local constabulary. Why is PvP such a big part of MMOs (or sandboxes )? It isn't. CCP's own figures show only 20% (or so) of their players want to PvP. There are these testosterone driven adolescent (arrested developments included here) types who just haven't gotten this rowdy behavior out of their systems...YET. (Emphasis on the "yet".) They will. They always do. Even if they're sitting in a jail cell for it, they come around to society's way of thinking - PvP is pointless. It's not worth the disruption. It's not worth the broken furniture. It's not worth the trip to the ER to get everyone sewn back up. It's not worth the loss of the peace and serenity that allows for the positive development and growth of creativity - and so creation. It's also annoying to have to listen to the ne'er do wells who prate endlessly about how PvP MAKES THIS GAME AND WITHOUT IT...right, we'll all DIE. We're all gonna die anyway. It's just that, we don't want to get there as FAST as some people seem to want to...now. As I said, they'll eventually come around. Of course, in the process we have to put up with them, apparently. (In real life that's what my brogan-shod right foot is for - planting it in an area where the sun don't shine - three-legged race to the ER and all that.) Welcome to civilization. Not entirely true. But it depends on how you define pvp. And in the real world, you are technically pvping everyone, every second of everyday. If you think PVP is just violent acts, be they a fist fight in a bar, or two ships in eve shooting each other, then yes your point is valid. But that's not what player vs player, or irl's human vs human is. PVP NEVER ends. Much like the idiots who don't think they will ever use algebra but they use it everyday without even understanding that it is what they are doing. Every time you go on a date to try to make a gf/bf/get laid you are pvping, not in a violent way, but your are trying to outmaneuver your partner to each your own goal. In the work force, you compete indirectly against your co workers, for bonus, praise, hours, money, promotions, etc. Everyday you complete aging another human. You just don't think about it. The same as eve, everyone completes against each other, it could be you trying to sell your item for the most money possible by undercutting someone, you wanting to mine all the ice in this belt as fast as you can. You want to get that bonus in this missing faster so look for the best price and ways to get in and out. You are ALWAYS completing against another person. Its part of the human condition and part of our nature. its unavoidable. I'm sorry, but precisely true in every way, and I can't believe you'd try to refute my point from the direction you have. The nature of our "competitive" society produces sociopathy as a direct result. This is not a matter of opinion, it is observable fact and has even been adopted as a metric by the American Psychiatric Association. People can't on the one hand decry the culture for its brutality and insensitivity, then rush in and use it as a justification for what they mistakenly call "human nature" because it's all they see around them.
Not only do I think about it - read my sig. TYVM Have a nice day.
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
393
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 18:56:16 -
[38] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote:Shooting ships might help with that. You'd need a good intel network to identify targets carrying that module and gank squads to blow them up
Hmm I hadn't thought about scanning ships for c-types and then suicide ganking them. Seems like too much effort for too little effect though. For a long while I've just been contesting Caldari hisec combat exploration sites as much as I can when I'm online. I figure that is where the majority of the c-type invulns come from, the people running the hisec 4/10s. Stealing their loot, blowing them up if they shoot at me. The goal is to discourage people from running the sites in Caldari hisec. There is more competition there, and more of a cutthroat attitude being developed among the exploration pilots there it feels like. I thought maybe if the environment turned nasty enough, the number of explorers would drop and the prices would raise again. But the value of the invulns has not rebounded. Still, its an example of "ruthlessness" for the OP, or having a goal, rather than blowing up ships for no reason at all.
Mooh Bear wrote:
Or you could just try to corner the market? Buy all of the orders <500M and control the supply. The volume traded isn't that high.
It looks like it would take about 30bil ISK just to clear out Jita alone. More ISK than I have. Now accepting donations. :) |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
457
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 00:44:27 -
[39] - Quote
I don't care about ISK or reason.
The thing I like most, is watching your bars go red. My eyes are glued to the screen and my fist leaves my mouse while I scream "Die punk, die!".
It's why I suck at solo pvp. My "tactics" are nothing more then get a point and start firing. Any n00b with a brain could kill me. It's also why I'm such a fan of FC's. They change my auto-demise into a situation where I can get a fix for my "bloodlust" by pressing F1.
Thats right. I press F1, you die.
I love EVE
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Pestilen Ratte
Artimus Ratte
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 07:35:24 -
[40] - Quote
The gameplay is open to everyone, b ut I would caution the OP against perceiving Eve as a game where the object is to make ISK.
It can be, sure, if you want to play the game that way. But Eve is about way more than ISK, for most players. The great thing about Eve is that you can play a lot of different games, depending on your choice, or even many different games at once.
In the final analyses, most of us are far better off doing one more hours work each week and buying PLEX for ISK, than we are trying to earn the same amount of ISK in game. That is true no matter who you are. Even if you are super ISK profitable, if you added up all the hours you have spent getting there, you probably would have made more delivering papers or washing cars on a weekend.
ISK is a reward system, and a metric for warfare. When big alliances go to war, they are inflicting a metric loss and suffering a metric loss. So ISK becomes the overall score card for wars. As in life, many wars are lose lose, and many third party corporations grow rich from such wars.
Finally, stop and think about the time the big alliance members are putting into noob recruitment and fleet protocol training. These are high skill people, and they are devoting hundreds of hours towards the long term welfare of their corporations and alliances. If you value the time of these players at their hourly salary rate, and then convert that to ISK, you find we talking about commitments of thousands of trillions of ISK.
It is worth keeping in mind, if you get cranky because you lose a battleship with mods that cost about five bucks real world money.
Everyone puts in, and we all take out. It is the nature of the sandbox. |
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
968
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 10:02:44 -
[41] - Quote
I fight for the mutant space hamsters.
Also, no matter what you do, or who you blap, Chribba has already defeated you.
Somehow, someway, he has already won.
All the rest of us can do is just fight over the scraps.
*looks at 'Serene Repose'*
Man, they'll let any sociopathic uneducated freak in this game nowadays.
*sighs*
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
416
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 10:24:43 -
[42] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote: but I think it would cool for the EVE villains to be more Pr. Moriarty and less the Joker.
But I adore Mr. J.
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Kirobacsi
Hell Campers
Heiian Conglomerate
13
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 11:16:33 -
[43] - Quote
You can mask isk off of pvp, i made 700+m profit one month doing solo and small gang pvp. FW plexers are basically like mission rats, easy to kill and drop tags that can be worth alot! |
Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
6
|
Posted - 2014.11.03 23:33:15 -
[44] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Mooh Bear wrote: but I think it would cool for the EVE villains to be more Pr. Moriarty and less the Joker. But I adore Mr. J.
What! A CODEy worshipping the Joker? I can't believe it! /s
Joke aside, I think I have been looking at the problem the wrong way. In EVE, the only point of blowing spaceship is the one you want to make. Still, I wish we could fight over more things.
Imagine turf wars for mission agents or belts in high-sec... |
DGSix Kado
Disturbed Holdings
Disturbed Heros
6
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 10:57:12 -
[45] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:I fight for the mutant space hamsters.
Also, no matter what you do, or who you blap, Chribba has already defeated you.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of Eve |
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1827
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 11:21:59 -
[46] - Quote
Cynadore wrote:Mooh Bear wrote: PVP is, at best, a poor isk maker or, at worst, a money sink Not a single ISK is removed from the economy through the loss of a ship. PvP is a material sink. It's actually an ISK faucet, through insurance payouts. The money you pay for your ship and modules changes from your wallet to the manufacturers' wallets. It does not disappear. I realize it might look like a "money sink" if you look at your wallet only, but this is not the case.
I find it amazing and sometimes a little shocking how many people do actually and genuinely not seem to understand this. |
Mithandra
Serene Vendetta
Brawls Deep
219
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 11:28:44 -
[47] - Quote
The point of PVP depends on who you ask.
Tears
Fun
Claiming resources
defending resources
boredom
Pyromania
revenge
tears
more tears
There are as many reasons to PvP as there are pilots in eve.
You cant say which is the best way for everyone to play eve, you can only say which is the best way for you to play.
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Nalha Saldana
Shattered Void
Spaceship Samurai
861
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 11:30:24 -
[48] - Quote
I agree with OP, goal driven PvP is a good thing and I think EVE needs a lot more of it.
The biggest issue in EVE imo is the lack of things to do in space. Most fights happens on gates when it should be somewhere inside the systems but what do you have to fight for there?
FW plexes
POCOs
POSes
SOV structures
PvEer ganking
And thats pretty much it, what we need are more reasons to fly around and do things inside systems, away from gates. |
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1828
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 11:35:57 -
[49] - Quote
It almost makes space seem small and limited, doesn't it? |
Shaily Kemen
Architects of Eternity
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 12:01:56 -
[50] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:PvP is pointless, insofar as organized society is concerned. That's why it's against the law everywhere.
...
Welcome to civilization.
Well, Serene, and other like-minded people. Have you guys ever watched a channel like Animal Planet to see how nature goes about its business? You would be amused to know how much point there is in killing "what isn't smart enough" or "what could spin out of control".
Due to the sheer amount of such undergrown profanes and detached carebears living in their egocentric fantasies, our whole society will most likely collapse very soon under its own weight that doesn't cease to grow without gaining much wisdom as the time passes.
And if the whole world will crumble, it will be due to the people like you, who were too afraid to open their eyes and see what it takes to keep things balanced around existence in whole rather than a specific group of like-minded beings.
Same applies to the game.
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Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
582
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 13:07:02 -
[51] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Mooh Bear wrote: but I think it would cool for the EVE villains to be more Pr. Moriarty and less the Joker. But I adore Mr. J. What! A CODEy worshipping the Joker? I can't believe it! /s Joke aside, I think I have been looking at the problem the wrong way. In EVE, the only point of blowing spaceship is the one you want to make. Still, I wish we could fight over more things. Imagine turf wars for mission agents or belts in high-sec...
You say that like there aren't wars over belts in high sec
And a lot of missioners get ganked regularly enough to drive them from the system they were using |
The Tomonator
Central Builders Incorporated
Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 14:00:30 -
[52] - Quote
Cynadore wrote:Mooh Bear wrote: PVP is, at best, a poor isk maker or, at worst, a money sink Not a single ISK is removed from the economy through the loss of a ship. PvP is a material sink. It's actually an ISK faucet, through insurance payouts. The money you pay for your ship and modules changes from your wallet to the manufacturers' wallets. It does not disappear. I realize it might look like a "money sink" if you look at your wallet only, but this is not the case.
methinks the op was meaning sink for the user ... ie, you spend more than you get out. Not relating to the entire eve economy, or mirroring the RL fact that energy can't be destroyed (just transferred etc). |
Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
8
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 15:56:28 -
[53] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:Mooh Bear wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Mooh Bear wrote: but I think it would cool for the EVE villains to be more Pr. Moriarty and less the Joker. But I adore Mr. J. What! A CODEy worshipping the Joker? I can't believe it! /s Joke aside, I think I have been looking at the problem the wrong way. In EVE, the only point of blowing spaceship is the one you want to make. Still, I wish we could fight over more things. Imagine turf wars for mission agents or belts in high-sec... You say that like there aren't wars over belts in high sec And a lot of missioners get ganked regularly enough to drive them from the system they were using
There aren't any war over belts in places I play. Plenty of ore and ice there
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inta Vakaria
Orbital Offence
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.05 10:22:47 -
[54] - Quote
While I do engage in random pvp for me it's not about the mindless destruction it's more about pitting my mind against someone else's.
Trying to work out a better ship and fit then your potential opponent.
Finding someone who you believe would make a excellent target.
Hunting said target down and try to catch him in a position that works to your advantage.
Picking the perfect moment to strike .
Useing my modules, range and ship to its fullest potential and finally getting my target.
I find all of these things much more entertaining then the feeling that I've destroyed something.
Though the explosion at the end is nice.  |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
972
|
Posted - 2014.11.05 12:49:14 -
[55] - Quote
DGSix Kado wrote:Chribba is the Chuck Norris of Eve
This is getting stolen for Da Sig....:)
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chirbba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
13132
|
Posted - 2014.11.05 13:10:04 -
[56] - Quote
One time I got caught in the gravitational field of the sun in JB-007, after 5 days of intense orbiting the sun had burned all its fuel and went supernova.
GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
Twitter @Chribba
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Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
585
|
Posted - 2014.11.05 13:42:40 -
[57] - Quote
Mooh Bear wrote:Ruskarn Andedare wrote:Mooh Bear wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Mooh Bear wrote: but I think it would cool for the EVE villains to be more Pr. Moriarty and less the Joker. But I adore Mr. J. What! A CODEy worshipping the Joker? I can't believe it! /s Joke aside, I think I have been looking at the problem the wrong way. In EVE, the only point of blowing spaceship is the one you want to make. Still, I wish we could fight over more things. Imagine turf wars for mission agents or belts in high-sec... You say that like there aren't wars over belts in high sec And a lot of missioners get ganked regularly enough to drive them from the system they were using There aren't any war over belts in places I play. Plenty of ore and ice there
Lucky for the guys near you - I've seen a fair few. Mainly started by groups who want to be able to mine in later TZs |
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2593
|
Posted - 2014.11.05 14:02:39 -
[58] - Quote
Chribba wrote:One time I got caught in the gravitational field of the sun in JB-007, after 5 days of intense orbiting the sun had burned all its fuel and went supernova. So that blinding light was your doing...
That said, I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.
The Rules:
3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counter productive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Mooh Bear
Gurista Testing Group LLC
9
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 00:04:44 -
[59] - Quote
inta Vakaria wrote:While I do engage in random pvp for me it's not about the mindless destruction it's more about pitting my mind against someone else's. Trying to work out a better ship and fit then your potential opponent. Finding someone who you believe would make a excellent target. Hunting said target down and try to catch him in a position that works to your advantage. Picking the perfect moment to strike . Useing my modules, range and ship to its fullest potential and finally getting my target. I find all of these things much more entertaining then the feeling that I've destroyed something. Though the explosion at the end is nice.
It's all fine to want challenge. But the line between challenging and suicidal is very thin (and very wobbly) in EVE. Plus, many of the activities I cited do not really present much challenge actually. |
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