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Sentry Drones vs Heavy Drones, sustained dps on a pos?

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edbrown1911 Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:19:56 - [1] - Quote hi so me and a friend were shooting a pos once and we were using domis (drones, no reload, ultimate afk) we used heavy drones (t2 preators) because in the eve fitting window we got more dps out of them, compared to curators (EM was the best damage to use). we were wondering if while the heavy drones do more dps than the sentry drones, if the sentry drones alpha is higher would they have been a better choice for bashing the pos, to make it go quicker? any insight on these drones is useful.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 5033	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:28:01 - [2] - Quote Do heavy drones even hit a POS, considering they need to hit the tower but can't get into the shields. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
edbrown1911 Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:29:46 - [3] - Quote Abrazzar wrote: Do heavy drones even hit a POS, considering they need to hit the tower but can't get into the shields. sorry I didnt mention, it was an offline tower. no shield. thats why I had the option to either use heavies or sentries, just wondering which one is the best for quickest highest dps to get the job done.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 5033	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:33:39 - [4] - Quote If you don't expect opposition, use heavy drones for that bit more dps. If you can get attacked though and need to leg it, sentries are more convenient to reel in compared to heavies. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Ribor Elysian. Orderly Misconduct 17	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:33:46 - [5] - Quote Heavies if it's offline. Have to use sentries for an online one.
voetius Quiet Days in Clichy 285	Posted - 2014.11.01 22:20:26 - [6] - Quote If you can use T2 Neutron Blasters a Talos may be better. I get 1300 dps with Void L out of mine and that is better than my old pos bashing Domi with Garde II and 4 x T2 Neutrons. Though you will need some ammo nearby if you use blasters.
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 324	Posted - 2014.11.02 10:38:42 - [7] - Quote The ROF of sentries and Heavies is the same IIRC - so the "alpha" is purely the result of the Sentries not needing to move before firing... and on that sort of HP mass its effect would be negligable, far outweighed by the higher DPS of the Heavies. Making things go quicker (marginally) without losing the low maintenance approach is probably the job of lasers... The Oracle may be a better option than your current Domis, but you could just fit lasers to the Domis themselves. I immediately thought of the 'geddon but I can't recall if it has additional fitting for lasers compared to the Domi these days - the higher BS skill is the key consideration as so much comes from the drones, shoehorning on extra damage from a ship which has a lesser damage bonus due to the pilot's skills is pointless. Perhaps the Navy 'Geddon is the only "better" choice (as it's built like the old 'geddon, with 125MBits for drones and high laser damage).
Shey Nabali Collapsed Out Overload Everything 12	Posted - 2014.11.02 10:50:56 - [8] - Quote Jacob Holland wrote: The ROF of sentries and Heavies is the same IIRC - so the "alpha" is purely the result of the Sentries not needing to move before firing... and on that sort of HP mass its effect would be negligable, far outweighed by the higher DPS of the Heavies. Making things go quicker (marginally) without losing the low maintenance approach is probably the job of lasers... The Oracle may be a better option than your current Domis, but you could just fit lasers to the Domis themselves. I immediately thought of the 'geddon but I can't recall if it has additional fitting for lasers compared to the Domi these days - the higher BS skill is the key consideration as so much comes from the drones, shoehorning on extra damage from a ship which has a lesser damage bonus due to the pilot's skills is pointless. Perhaps the Navy 'Geddon is the only "better" choice (as it's built like the old 'geddon, with 125MBits for drones and high laser damage). Heavy drone rattlesnakes?
Arronicus Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra 1213	Posted - 2014.11.02 11:11:20 - [9] - Quote Jacob Holland wrote: The ROF of sentries and Heavies is the same IIRC - so the "alpha" is purely the result of the Sentries not needing to move before firing... and on that sort of HP mass its effect would be negligable, far outweighed by the higher DPS of the Heavies. Ogre II: 4.0s RoF, 1.92 Damage modifier, 48 thermal damage. Garde II: 4.0s RoF, 1.92 Damage modifier, 50 thermal damage. Going by the numbers, the sentry drones should volley harder and do more dps, but I think there is some missing factor that I'm forgetting, since heavies are supposed to do more dps. Shooting at a pos though, Offline = heavies, online = sentries.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 6461	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:26:42 - [10] - Quote Heavy drones are always moving... so you have to take the quality of their hits (due to tracking) into account... even against a stationary target. Sentries don't have this problem. They are at range. The target isn't moving. Their hits will be more consistent. Never not use Sentry drones against a stationary target. Heavy drones are good for when you are brawling a large ship and have to keep moving. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 17474	Posted - 2014.11.02 19:43:18 - [11] - Quote edbrown1911 wrote: so me and a friend were shooting a pos once and we were using domis (drones, no reload, ultimate afk) Thank you for showing that highsec needs a safety nerf. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Miromme Echerie Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.11.03 10:59:52 - [12] - Quote Arronicus wrote: Jacob Holland wrote: The ROF of sentries and Heavies is the same IIRC - so the "alpha" is purely the result of the Sentries not needing to move before firing... and on that sort of HP mass its effect would be negligable, far outweighed by the higher DPS of the Heavies. Ogre II: 4.0s RoF, 1.92 Damage modifier, 48 thermal damage. Garde II: 4.0s RoF, 1.92 Damage modifier, 50 thermal damage. Going by the numbers, the sentry drones should volley harder and do more dps, but I think there is some missing factor that I'm forgetting, since heavies are supposed to do more dps. Shooting at a pos though, Offline = heavies, online = sentries. Are you sure those stats are right? I have 4s RoF on both, 64 damage on both but 1.7dmg mod on Garde and 1.92 on Ogre. 31dps on Ogre/27 on Garde without bonuses.
Arronicus Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra 1215	Posted - 2014.11.03 11:58:20 - [13] - Quote Miromme Echerie wrote: Arronicus wrote: Jacob Holland wrote: The ROF of sentries and Heavies is the same IIRC - so the "alpha" is purely the result of the Sentries not needing to move before firing... and on that sort of HP mass its effect would be negligable, far outweighed by the higher DPS of the Heavies. Ogre II: 4.0s RoF, 1.92 Damage modifier, 48 thermal damage. Garde II: 4.0s RoF, 1.92 Damage modifier, 50 thermal damage. Going by the numbers, the sentry drones should volley harder and do more dps, but I think there is some missing factor that I'm forgetting, since heavies are supposed to do more dps. Shooting at a pos though, Offline = heavies, online = sentries. Are you sure those stats are right? I have 4s RoF on both, 64 damage on both but 1.7dmg mod on Garde and 1.92 on Ogre. 31dps on Ogre/27 on Garde without bonuses. Nope, my numbers are wrong. server was on DT or something so I checked numbers online and the eve wiki or something gave me old values. They are infact yes, 1.7 on garde, 1.92 on ogre, which fully explains why heavies do more damage. Thankyou =)
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 324	Posted - 2014.11.03 13:28:07 - [14] - Quote Shey Nabali wrote: Heavy drone rattlesnakes? Marginally better on drone damage alone than the other bonused heavy drone boats but almost half the Rattler's damage comes from the launchers and if the AFK aspect is important then you can only factor in one magazine from those - which is where the Lasers come in... I cannot be sure but I would guess that a Domi or 'geddon with drones and lasers will do more damage over the course of an hour than a drone only Rattler... and probably by a considerable margin. IIRC the Navy 'geddon can pull around 1300DPS on paper - and, with Energy Transfers running between the two ships, still be pretty close to that with a cap stable fit.
Miromme Echerie Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.11.03 13:51:58 - [15] - Quote Jacob Holland wrote: Shey Nabali wrote: Heavy drone rattlesnakes? Marginally better on drone damage alone than the other bonused heavy drone boats but almost half the Rattler's damage comes from the launchers and if the AFK aspect is important then you can only factor in one magazine from those - which is where the Lasers come in... I cannot be sure but I would guess that a Domi or 'geddon with drones and lasers will do more damage over the course of an hour than a drone only Rattler... and probably by a considerable margin. IIRC the Navy 'geddon can pull around 1300DPS on paper - and, with Energy Transfers running between the two ships, still be pretty close to that with a cap stable fit. You're wrong there. A rattlesnake (with minimum skills) with pure drones has DPS = to a domi with Gal BSV. Let's say drones each heavy does 1 DPS. A rattlesnake has 50mb bandwidth (2 heavies) and a 275% damage role bonus. so the 2 heavies are = to 7.5. A dominix has 125mb bandwidth (5 heavies) and gets a 10% damage bonus / level of gal bs. So at V, it's 5+50%. 7.5. And the rattlesnake then has the DPS from missiles, but I wouldn't use those on a bash. A typical RS pve fit is still getting more DPS from a 4th dda compared to using a 3rd BCS, so the lows are typically something like 4DDA:2BCS, shield mods (and maybe prop mod/drone mods) in mids (XLSB is popular) and then launchers (does it have utility highs? I can't remember) in the highs. Cruise seems to be the most used.
Elsa Hayes Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 61	Posted - 2014.11.03 14:23:27 - [16] - Quote Get a Navy Geddon, 1400+ dps that do not need to be taken care of. No fancy mods needed. Vanilla Geddon is also fine with around 1200 sustained dps and by sustained I mean until you get interrupted or your crystals break.
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant randomly named no tax corp v2 27	Posted - 2014.11.03 14:32:59 - [17] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Heavy drones are always moving... so you have to take the quality of their hits (due to tracking) into account... even against a stationary target. Did the sums, I think heavies still do a bit more damage, at least vs something as large as a pos. Looking at drone stats they have the tracking to cope with their orbit: eg ogre2 on a non-bonused ship, no drone mods fitted, orbits at 2800 (within its optimal so that's not a factor) at 300m/sec, for an angular velocity of around 0.11. It tracks far better than this, at 0.54, resulting in hit chances of basically 100%. For afk pos bash, as someone else said: laser domi looks good for afk work, 1400dps and doesn't need reloaded. The new max speed rigs might be useful too, a Domi could stay aligned at 26m/sec - you'd only need turn it around every hour.
War Kitten Panda McLegion 5415	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:51:28 - [18] - Quote edbrown1911 wrote: hi so me and a friend were shooting a pos once and we were using domis (drones, no reload, ultimate afk) we used heavy drones (t2 preators) because in the eve fitting window we got more dps out of them, compared to curators (EM was the best damage to use). we were wondering if while the heavy drones do more dps than the sentry drones, if the sentry drones alpha is higher would they have been a better choice for bashing the pos, to make it go quicker? any insight on these drones is useful. Why would more alpha ever be a consideration in shooting a POS? Unless you can kill something in < 10 shots, alpha is going to be a worthless stat. Higher DPS is higher DPS. I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
Desimus Maximus Embargo. 135	Posted - 2014.11.03 20:58:13 - [19] - Quote edbrown1911 wrote: sorry I didnt mention, it was an offline tower. no shield. Common misconception. The POS bubble is not a shield. It is a FORCE FIELD that is pw protected that keeps unauthorized ships at a minimum distance depending on size. The actual POS structure is just like a ship.. Shield / Armor / Structure. The bubble is not a shield.
Baneken Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 344	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:22:44 - [20] - Quote Elsa Hayes wrote: Get a Navy Geddon, 1400+ dps that do not need to be taken care of. No fancy mods needed. Vanilla Geddon is also fine with around 1200 sustained dps and by sustained I mean until you get interrupted or your crystals break. Quite literally so friend of mine had his alt's baddon shooting an abandoned POS for 10 hours straight with T1 crystals.

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