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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.08.25 12:30:00 -
[61]
I like the idea of having those bonuses to the nighthawk tbh. Much better than the current ones. The huge problem with the current bonuses are that the ship, and fittings, dont match the bonuses. Its like saying ..Ok...we'll give the brutix 50% bonus at missile damage. Sure its a great bonus...but sadly, it has no missile slots :S.
The Nighthawk is a slow, bulky (and overmassed in some peoples opinions)piece of ****. So having its job of popping frigs is kinda useless when you're not able to do anything but spam missiles. Considering missiles arent fast enough to catch em (heavy missiles) its kinda useless.
The other downside is that for those who have trained up their missile precision skills to their max, those bonuses wont make much difference to popping a frig or not. Therefore the nighthawks bonuses itself are actually non-useful.
I just personally think the right way about it is just make it a bigger cerb. And before i hear it..i know nonnighthawk pilots will be saying "ahh overpowered ahhhhh nerf". The fact is that all the other CBC atm are based that way (field ones). Each ship has is own good sides and bad sides. But theres no reason for the nighthawk atm to be the Bad side of field command ships, and the other 3 to be the good side 
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Elenath
Gallente
The Vindaloo Enema Disasters
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Posted - 2006.08.25 12:44:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Elenath on 25/08/2006 12:45:32
 Originally by: Metacannibal
this thread shows the vast disparity between mission runners and pvp'ers.
sure, in missions, tanks never break because people run bazillion isk rigs. so that gist-x nighthawk is surely overly tanked, considering its ability to totally outtank a cerberus is nullified, since the cerberus could already tank the mission well. hence the yap yap yap about the crappy ship without sufficient damage, because in reality, all people want is a higher dps missionship.
in the random, daily pvp enviroment, gank is often the least important factor, especially on command ships.
i fly a cbc in pvp daily, and having a nighthawk in a gang is one of the best options. it is a shiny t2 ship with an extreme tank, usually the hostile fc targets it, making the worst call right there, allowing the nighthawks gang to win the fight while the nh tanks the attacks being half afk while still delivering a very very nice amount of damage to all kinds of targets.
tank>gank in most cases, leaving ew out of the mix. in missions, that rule does not apply hence people want to overpower the nighthawk
I can't figure out if this post is an attempt at being scarcastically entertaining... or if you are really serious... because my only experience with the Nighthawk is in PVP... which I do full time... and the Nighthawk absolutely sucks at PVP. Damage is FAR more important than tanking in PVP as most fights are all about warping in to a contact in gang... hitting a target and then getting out before you even have to tank.
The Nighthawk isn't even as good at killing support as many other ships. You mention that you fly a CBC daily in PVP... but I venture to guess that the 'CBC' you are referring to is not a Nighthawk... otherwise you'd know how there is not one situation where you'd want one instead of a Cerberus... or a Caracal... or a Scorp... or a Blackbird... etc... etc...
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Devils Sin
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Posted - 2006.08.25 13:01:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Devils Sin on 25/08/2006 13:02:03
I've never flown or flown with a nighthawk so ignore me if you like.
I gotta say though I thought the point behind command ships was a support role not a front and center role. Could it be the other command ships are over powerd for their role? I know no one wants to hear that.
They arnt suppose to directly add DPS. They add plenty with gang mods.
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Akiman
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Posted - 2006.08.25 13:23:00 -
[64]
tbh when i see nighthawks abilites ti hought it was awesome...but now u say it sux...well at least ppl cant tackle u :) if u want damage u have to take kinetic damage bonus tho i know you dont want it...u want rof to be more effective...i think its a trippy ship...got different ability...tho like someone said first u want more damage then want more tank it keeps going on and on...plus i think more missiles will be coming for u...maybe u wont need that bonus anymore?
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Vardemis
Confederation of Red Moon
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.25 13:51:00 -
[65]
Just nerf the Cerberus, then the Nighthawk will be right in its place without any changes.
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Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.25 13:54:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Necrologic
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Until we get assault missiles the bonus needs to stay as is. If the assault missiles don't particulary benefit the bonus there should be changes shortly after.
The NH shouldn't be balanced around assault missiles as it shouldn't be restricted to them any more than the other FCs are to their short range weapons. What they need to do is balance it now vs the cerb by atleast adding a rof bonus. Once assault missiles come out heavy missiles will probably need to be adjusted slightly, but that is and needs to remain a seperate topic/balance fight.
Who knows maybe the assault missiles will have very low precision and the NH will be quite the beast with them?! Just like a blasterboat needs MWD and dmg bonus..
Your assumtion is irrelevant I must say. Also caldari were never the dmg race and raven is quite the exception in that, though I agree NH should do more dmg than cerb that will probably be achieved with assault missiles.
Missiles - flexible range, flexible dmg type, no tracking, moderate DPS, NO CAP use
Hybrids - Highest DPS at very close range, moderate DPS at long range, high cap use
Projectiles - Highest Alpha, flexible dmg type, lowest DPS, NO CAP use (ships that fit projectiles are designed for "hit and run"s so high alpha makes sense)
Lasers - High DPS, flexible optimal, no ammo need, too weak against armor (hopefully it will be fixed), moderate cap use
Drones - Uses drone bay instead of HI-slot (biggest advantage IMO), moderate DPS, better tracking than turrets, flexible range but more limited than missiles, flexible DMG type, slower than missles, need to be sacrificed most of the time in case of a retreat, crap interface, NO CAP use
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o0TuNa0o
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Posted - 2006.08.25 14:02:00 -
[67]
argh, was going to get a Nighhawk, not after reading this thread tho!
People seem to be slaggin off caldari for a few reasons. while I only have 4.5m SP's, ive come to the conclusion that the other races are better off with ship choices. Weve got 2 HAC's, ones not really much good for missiles, the others great but stupidly expensive. The NH is crap (so you say), the other command ship im not too clued up on but ive not heard much about it so thats not too good either. Now if i was from another turret hard point race, i could choose from another two races. yes i know they all use slightly different turret weapons, but they all at least use turret weapons. If your caldari, your abviously going to be using missiles (or your nuts), so where does that leave us with choices. sure i can spend months training turrets, but why? id have thought that making 2 races use missiles, and 2 races use turrets would have been a better idea, since then, at least each race would have 2 races of ships to choose from....
So im not gettin a highthawk. cerebs are too bloody expensive. yeah i can afford one, but im of the opinion you should not get a flash ship unless you can handle it. and the skills id want to have against the money involved, just dosent make sense. its too much cash for a ship too lose to a pirate in a cheap frig. to be honest id go for another race's HAC as my next ship, but because of the above reason, its a waste of time....
anwyay thats my view, at least i know not to waste 150m on a nighhawk. cheers :)
o0TuNa0o
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
The Nest
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Posted - 2006.08.25 14:09:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Necrologic
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Until we get assault missiles the bonus needs to stay as is. If the assault missiles don't particulary benefit the bonus there should be changes shortly after.
The NH shouldn't be balanced around assault missiles as it shouldn't be restricted to them any more than the other FCs are to their short range weapons. What they need to do is balance it now vs the cerb by atleast adding a rof bonus. Once assault missiles come out heavy missiles will probably need to be adjusted slightly, but that is and needs to remain a seperate topic/balance fight.
And the sleipnir is balanced for both ACs AND Arties? I'd like you to think about shield tanking with an XL booster on a 7 720mm II sleip. If you dont' have an XL booster you might as well fly a cyclone.
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.08.25 14:28:00 -
[69]
o0TuNa0o - the nighthawk is good - just not solo. Whilst the other CBC are. They have the advantage over the NH. To put it lightly, today i solo'd a domi. Granted it wasnt a very strong domi, but with heavy nos etc, my cap was gone. Yet i tanked for longer than he could.
HOWEVER - That was a fluke. And im sure an astarte could do it just as well.
And just to comment on the vulture. You can get something insane like 22k hp on it. and resists over 80% at the same time. So its a good little ship:P
Vulture is a bigger eagle, and nighthawk *should* be a bigger cerberus. Sadly tho, the devs didnt :S
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Elenath
Gallente
The Vindaloo Enema Disasters
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Posted - 2006.08.25 15:51:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Akiman
tbh when i see nighthawks abilites ti hought it was awesome...but now u say it sux...well at least ppl cant tackle u :) if u want damage u have to take kinetic damage bonus tho i know you dont want it...u want rof to be more effective...i think its a trippy ship...got different ability...tho like someone said first u want more damage then want more tank it keeps going on and on...plus i think more missiles will be coming for u...maybe u wont need that bonus anymore?
Inform yourself of the situation, read the post, think... then post.
The Nighthawk already has a kinetic missile damage bonus. I have also not once asked that it tank better.... only that it be on par with the other three races of combat battlecruisers. It takes mediocre skill in elementary school math to figure out that it comes up WAY short when compared to all three other combat battlecruisers.
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Elenath
Gallente
The Vindaloo Enema Disasters
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Posted - 2006.08.25 16:48:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Elenath on 25/08/2006 16:49:04
PS. For those of you who have not flown the Nighthawk... or have some opinion regarding it without much hands-on evidence... here are some links to some solid Nighthawk discussion threads that will put some numbers to the problem.
Link One
Link Two
Link Three
PPS. Notice that these are FIVE months old. Lightning fast reaction time to this particular problem.
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Elenath
Gallente
The Vindaloo Enema Disasters
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Posted - 2006.08.26 18:58:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Elenath on 26/08/2006 18:58:26
Interesting...
This thread dropped off the radar very quickly after posting those links.
Hopefully the Devs and some of the naysayers have perused the info contained within them... and consequently drawn the same logical conclusion that many others have - that the Nighthawk has needed fixing for months.
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