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Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:45:00 - [31] Some people can't be satisfied with disrupting someone elses day unless there is a killmail at the end of the tunnel. Sorry, cloaks should stay as is 100%. Making someone run to the safespot is taking money out of their pocket. Time is money... thank you for your time. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.25 00:04:00 - [32] I dont much care for cloakers, found a lot of them around FIX space when I used to fly there. Mainly the same names, warping to safe and cloaking as soon as local goes up. As a tactic it works to thwart most ppl looking for a kill. And as such, I dont really mind the cloaking. Warping to a safe would do the same in my case, cuz I mostly flew alone and didnt fit probes on my ships. However, I do have beef with the risk/reward system in place currently. There is little to no risk for npcers in 0.0. The only time an npcer risks dying (lest he/she is a complete moron) is when they travel, and even in that case most travel setups keep you safe from most situations. Large gangs of frigs/hacs and chokepoint bubble camps aside. CCP appear to be catering to the npc crowd probably cuz its larger. Understandable, but I wish there was an alternative. There was a time, I used to be on edge while npcing in curse, because almost every other spawn had 2-3 scrambling frigs, and the spawns themselves posed some problems. Nowadays, its warp in, shoot, tank, warp out as local goes up by one. Majority of the people I get to fight, I meet on gates, because even new ppl in 0.0 know to safespot immediately. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.08.25 00:13:00 - [33] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I have given up on cloaks. Cloaks do not need nerfing. Prototype cloaks should sell at 200M, improved cloaks at 400M and covert ops cloak at 600M. Cloaks are overpowered and too cheap at the moment. You popped another idiot carrying a T2 BPO, and got a cloak II BPO didn't you?
irishranger	Posted - 2006.08.25 02:11:00 - [34] lol this topic is rather funny so your actually saying if a player fits mods designed to avoid pvp like cloaks and wcs that ccp should bring something in so u can gank em anyway? LOL
Altai Saker Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:24:00 - [35] Originally by: inSpirAcy Originally by: Roxanna Kell Originally by: Kunming They should nerf local not cloaks.. 99% of eve agrees to that one, by hey CCP doesn't Give a @%@%^. Yes, dear. BTW, don't nerf cloaks. If some silly NPC'r wants to sit in a belt cloaked I'll happily do a bit of scanner work to decloak and pop him for the module. (SS's are another matter, but the cloak adds nothing) Wtf are you talking about, all the npcer has to do is come in at a longrange spotstart killing npcs, uh oh new local, warp to an asteroid, cloak, all before you can even scan him. You must be new at scanning people in belts. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Liet Traep Minmatar Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:33:00 - [36] Originally by: Kaylon Syi If you want more targets then ask CCP to start advertising on Sci-Fi in the US to bring more targets into the game. QFT
Roxanna Kell Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.25 08:43:00 - [37] Originally by: Liet Traep Originally by: Kaylon Syi If you want more targets then ask CCP to start advertising on Sci-Fi in the US to bring more targets into the game. QFT no no its, ok, tranquility is crowded as it is. all copying bookmarks
Lady Beauvoir	Posted - 2006.08.25 09:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Dred 'Morte Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 24/08/2006 22:25:45 Originally by: Roxanna Kell Originally by: Kunming They should nerf local not cloaks.. 99% of eve agrees to that one, by hey CCP doesn't Give a @%@%^. No, about 49-51% of EVE PvPers agree to that. I won't even mention non PvPers. Many NPCers do use cloaks. Specially Ravens. And what's the problem what? You can't kill a harmless NPCer who doesn' want to harm anyone? Are you afraid he kills all the spawns of your Alliances region? No, you just want to gank him because he is not in your alliance, ohhhh... buhuuuu... Well if one wants to kill the bothersome NPCer, there are many ways to get rid of an NPCer with a cloak you don't want in the system. Here's one. An NPCer with a cloak hangs around in a system. Get your alt with a cloaking ship into the system. Play around with your main and wait. If the NPCer doesn't want to fight and is too cowardly to call your bluff, he'll leave. Follow him with your alt and stay in the same system with him. Repeat and wait until he no longer returns to plague your systems. This just takes time, but EVE is not for the impatient. And hey, you didn't even have to kill anyone! :)
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.25 09:47:00 - [39] Originally by: Wizie However, I do have beef with the risk/reward system in place currently. There is little to no risk for npcers in 0.0. The only time an npcer risks dying (lest he/she is a complete moron) is when they travel, and even in that case most travel setups keep you safe from most situations. Large gangs of frigs/hacs and chokepoint bubble camps aside. I don't find this to be the case. Infact, a lot of people don't NPC with cloaks. I only NPC with one on a dominix or carrier. Geddon with a cloak? You gotta be kidding me... goodbye CPU... goodbye tractorbeam. As for risk vs reward... I don't think you really 'get it.' If there was no module of safety such as the cloak many NPCers wouldn't bother going to 0.0 and would be content with lvl 4 missions. Traveling through 0.0 is tough to say the least in an NPC setup if you are solo or in a small gang. You risk your entire setup, which may or may not be able to change once you get to your destination. Once there you can still be followed. Infact... the risk could easily out weigh the reward. Until isk is in someones wallet it is an idea. Quote: CCP appear to be catering to the npc crowd probably cuz its larger. Understandable, but I wish there was an alternative. Um... I think the same could be said in regards to alliances and low security pirates. They are not catering to just one crowd they are catering to many crowds. I just don't see how you can say something so absolute that is bases solely on a partial perspective. I don't see it... I see many signs of the opposite. Quote: There was a time, I used to be on edge while npcing in curse, because almost every other spawn had 2-3 scrambling frigs, and the spawns themselves posed some problems. Nowadays, its warp in, shoot, tank, warp out as local goes up by one. Well... spawns are a bit easier this is true. But there are a lot more people in 0.0 than there was back in the glory days a year ago where NPC setups were not looked apon on these forums as 'noob.' CCP has done leaps and bounds in resource management to allow small corps and alliances to have a balanced risk vs reward in 0.0 considering there might only be 2 good low sec 0.0's in one constellation and that might contain 300 or so people trying to compete for it. Edge of your seat combat should be and is found in PvP. Quote: Majority of the people I get to fight, I meet on gates, because even new ppl in 0.0 know to safespot immediately. EVE isn't a game about ganking despite the popular beliefs. It is about having fun in a vast world where many ideas, backgrounds and beliefs can come together and play a science fiction space opera. Like it or not... being able to cloak is part of the game. Like it or not... being able to roam in space that isn't part of any point of interest, aka safespot, is a part of the game. Both together provide a very roleplay freidnly, logical, and down right sci-fi feeling of evasion. If it deny's you or anyone a killmail... get over it. Too many people on this forum want to utterly ruin all immersion of a sci-fi game in EVE just to farm more killmails. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
inSpirAcy Caldari The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:12:00 - [40] Originally by: Altai Saker Wtf are you talking about, all the npcer has to do is come in at a longrange spotstart killing npcs, uh oh new local, warp to an asteroid, cloak, all before you can even scan him. You must be new at scanning people in belts. Fair enough, I was under the impression that cloaked people appeared on the scanner. But my point still stands, a cloak gives next to no advantage to NPC'rs. They can't cloak while locked which is problematic if NPC'ing in the first place. More importantly, jumping between two SS's continually makes you 100% impossible to scan. You don't need a cloak to do that. All a cloak does is make it very expensive when you screw up.
dalman Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:40:00 - [41] Originally by: inSpirAcy But my point still stands, a cloak gives next to no advantage to NPC'rs. They can't cloak while locked which is problematic if NPC'ing in the first place. No it's not a problem at all since almost no NPCs scramble (which pretty much all did back in the days). Originally by: inSpirAcy More importantly, jumping between two SS's continually makes you 100% impossible to scan. You don't need a cloak to do that. Wrong. But then you've already said you don't know much about finding ppl as you thought cloaked ships appeared on scanner... Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
inSpirAcy Caldari The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:45:00 - [42] Originally by: dalman Originally by: inSpirAcy But my point still stands, a cloak gives next to no advantage to NPC'rs. They can't cloak while locked which is problematic if NPC'ing in the first place. No it's not a problem at all since almost no NPCs scramble (which pretty much all did back in the days). Lock, not scramble. A locked ship can't cloak. That much I am certain of. Originally by: dalman Wrong. But then you've already said you don't know much about finding ppl as you thought cloaked ships appeared on scanner... Explain why it's wrong rather than pretending you're the master of all knowledge. Scan probes can't pick up a target which moves during their scan. Ergo, jump between two safe spots and you'll never be caught.
Mazare Mircea	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:52:00 - [43] Originally by: Roxanna Kell some people just cant help to smack, stick to the subject please. and psot with your mains. Here is an example of what i hate about EVE players, they are smack paranoid and alt paranoid. For instance, for you, smack just became whatever others say that destroys you're arguments. PS: This is my main, if you had taken the trouble to press show info on my char, you would have seen all of the signs of a healthy main, like an annoying bio, some faction ships sells, and quite some agent standings - those i regret.
Mazare Mircea	Posted - 2006.08.25 11:00:00 - [44] Guristas still scramble - 0.0 spawns, so that's not out yet. The funny thing is that i probably will rarely fit a cloak on my ship as i am training up to do 0.0 ratting in an AF - Ishkur, which would allow me to get away from hostiles in local by maneuverablity and speed - compared to the Raven anyway.
madaluap Gallente Anthrax Foundation	Posted - 2006.08.25 11:01:00 - [45] Originally by: Roxanna Kell Originally by: Kunming They should nerf local not cloaks.. 99% of eve agrees to that one, by hey CCP doesn't Give a @%@%^. Than im part of that 1%, local ftw... chatting, looking for targets..Asking for 1 vs 1..actually finding people so you can pvp and not get blobbed. F T W _________________________________________________
kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.08.25 11:09:00 - [46] I remember them saying they might nerf local, would be pretty cool if they did. Actually damn bring it on i was guna say theres too many draw backs but tbh im my profession its just too tasty an idea. IMHO tho i think there needs to be more skills for the scanner increasing range, being able to scan ships that are firing weapons so theres a distingtion between POS afk'ers and Npc'ers or perhaps other 3rd party pvp battles etc etc. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0608/Forever_Pirate_
kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.08.25 11:11:00 - [47] Originally by: Wizie I dont much care for cloakers, found a lot of them around FIX space when I used to fly there. Mainly the same names, warping to safe and cloaking as soon as local goes up. As a tactic it works to thwart most ppl looking for a kill. And as such, I dont really mind the cloaking. Warping to a safe would do the same in my case, cuz I mostly flew alone and didnt fit probes on my ships. However, I do have beef with the risk/reward system in place currently. There is little to no risk for npcers in 0.0. The only time an npcer risks dying (lest he/she is a complete moron) is when they travel, and even in that case most travel setups keep you safe from most situations. Large gangs of frigs/hacs and chokepoint bubble camps aside. CCP appear to be catering to the npc crowd probably cuz its larger. Understandable, but I wish there was an alternative. There was a time, I used to be on edge while npcing in curse, because almost every other spawn had 2-3 scrambling frigs, and the spawns themselves posed some problems. Nowadays, its warp in, shoot, tank, warp out as local goes up by one. Majority of the people I get to fight, I meet on gates, because even new ppl in 0.0 know to safespot immediately. Agreed more scrambling NPC frigates please. i lost a player kills yesturday becus a friggin Gurista ship jammed me!! -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0608/Forever_Pirate_
Deviana Sevidon Gallente easyCredits	Posted - 2006.08.25 11:18:00 - [48] I have never fitted a cloak when NPC'ing, but now I will do. Just to annoy Roxanna and her big-uber-blob mates, whining that everyone should be defenseless when they jump in.
Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.25 11:38:00 - [49] Cloaks don't need nerfed. From a pvp'er that likes to kill npc'ers. And miners. And other pvp'ers.
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.25 12:08:00 - [50] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter ... but i so disagree for removing local tbh this will change game to much and makes it just for rich bastards with **** load of industrail alts game I havent said remove local, I said nerf it. In every strategy game there is a "fog of war", covering the map and making exploration and scouting a worthwhile tactical element. You can keep your precious local in empire space for all I care, but in 0.0 alliances should put up POSs with scanning arrays to give you the info, while ships cloaked should be removed from local no matter if there is a scanning array or not. Also just for the record Kunming is the char I use to pvp as well as carebear, the myth that pvpers have all tons of industrial alts is just that.. a myth, I know maybe 10 players like that from all over EVE.
Xantina Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.08.25 12:49:00 - [51] Originally by: Kunming I havent said remove local, I said nerf it. In every strategy game there is a "fog of war", covering the map and making exploration and scouting a worthwhile tactical element. Remove "pilots in space" from the F10 map then you can remove local :) In that matter the locals couldn't see hostiles entering the system, and the hostiles would actually have to scout if there were any targets IN the system :)
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.25 13:27:00 - [52] Originally by: Xantina ... Remove "pilots in space" from the F10 map then you can remove local :) In that matter the locals couldn't see hostiles entering the system, and the hostiles would actually have to scout if there were any targets IN the system :) OFC man, its pretty much one and the same thing, this would make EVE (especially 0.0) feel so much bigger. I definetly wish the map was not so omnipotent, would make everything more interesting in EVE. POD kill and SHIP kill info can stay to warn about blockades, but atm I can see whats going on at the other end of the universe by just looking at the map, thats bull****.
Twilight Moon Minmatar eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 13:58:00 - [53] Edited by: Twilight Moon on 25/08/2006 13:58:21 Originally by: Foulis No, they really don't. Or rather, it wouldn't make a difference, if you have 3 safespots in the system (or even 2) you can't be caught by a prober. See thats what I do. Hostile comes into local, I SS. I'm not removing a gun for the sake of and unneccessary cloaking device. cough Not that I can use cloaks anyway... ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
DeMundus The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:07:00 - [54] IMHO: Cloaks are fine, but there is something wrong withe the current situation. I agree that local needs to be nerfed and i do think 0.0 is far to safe with current game mechanics. Tbh 0.1-0.4 space is far more scary to fly around, especially with more pilots flying capital ships. I really don't have any good suggestions; but i think there should be far more NPC'ers that would scramble pilots in belts and on gates in 0.0... other than that, well pirates and pvp'ers alos uses cloaks to catch their targets so why should PvE'ers not use em as well? Abandon all hope But take care of teh cake!11 - Immy
Harris	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:11:00 - [55] As Oveur hinted at in one of his replies, perhaps the solution to local intel lies in making local chat cover whole constellations as opposed to systems. Add to that, the extension of making the F10 map show constellation average numbers instead of systems and you could possibly have a system that is fair to both sides. Non PvPers get to know when someone is around, but not where they are exactly. On topic, cloaked ships will be able to be scanned for in the future with the right skills if the dev blogs are to be believed so that form of 'cowardly' play will cease to be as effective if the hunters are prepared to bring the right tools for the job. Hunters know that "prey" is near but will not be able to find them without scanning in the appropriate systems. A lot of pluses to the system and apart from that "you still know when a pirate is coming" cries from those that like that sort of thing, there aren't too many negatives that I can see just now when you look at this as a compromise. Thoughts anyone?
Raider Zero Minmatar Federation	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:34:00 - [56] Originally by: Harris As Oveur hinted at in one of his replies, perhaps the solution to local intel lies in making local chat cover whole constellations as opposed to systems. Add to that, the extension of making the F10 map show constellation average numbers instead of systems and you could possibly have a system that is fair to both sides. Non PvPers get to know when someone is around, but not where they are exactly. On topic, cloaked ships will be able to be scanned for in the future with the right skills if the dev blogs are to be believed so that form of 'cowardly' play will cease to be as effective if the hunters are prepared to bring the right tools for the job. Hunters know that "prey" is near but will not be able to find them without scanning in the appropriate systems. A lot of pluses to the system and apart from that "you still know when a pirate is coming" cries from those that like that sort of thing, there aren't too many negatives that I can see just now when you look at this as a compromise. Thoughts anyone? The problem I see with a constellation wide local channel is that in the most heavily populated regions, you'll see local chat looking like the corp channel in a newb corp. In 0.0 it's probably pretty viable, although if implemented one alt can now give intel on an entire constelation by logging in, and login traps are all the more deadly and could likely see an increase in popularity. What's the use of a cloaking device if it doesn't make your ship invisible to sensors and enemies? Seems like this is another 0.0 PvP is too hard to kill anybody thread. As I've noted before, everybody gets harder to kill as they learn about how to play a game-As many others have noted before "Eve is not Quake in space." If you're out looking for fights and kills, the simple answer is go to Jita and challenge people to duels. When 20k people are in a game with thousands of systems, frankly it should be hard to kill people who are not looking to fight you.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:37:00 - [57] Originally by: Roxanna Kell carebears if it was up to them, they would have a red light warning when any hostiles get clsoe withing 5 jumps. Damn, but I am SO going to petition for one of those... Thanks Roxanna for supporting carebears everywhere with this fantastic idea. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Kalavoz Caldari Calista Industries	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:53:00 - [58] Cloaks rock in 0.0, I fit a cloak almost always. Having a cloak means if the phone rings, or the dog starts playing up, it's simple to safespot, cloak and walk away from the PC for a few mins. As for local being nerfed (not that I think it will/should be) it would pretty much stop me going into 0.0 - I could make almost as much isk running level 4 missions in my Raven, and for considerably less effort and risk. Tbh, I dont think it would just be me, but a lot of other people too. Then, imho, PvP'ers would complain even more bitterly that there were now even less targets to find in 0.0. This is only my opinion, of course, but if CCP really do want to encourage newer players into 0.0 instead of staying happily in empire, well, nerfing Cloaks and Local cld be the most counter productive change of all.
Wayback	Posted - 2006.08.25 15:18:00 - [59] Originally by: Roxanna Kell Originally by: Kunming They should nerf local not cloaks.. 99% of eve agrees to that one, by hey CCP doesn't Give a @%@%^. You sir, are wrong. That is all
Harris	Posted - 2006.08.25 15:46:00 - [60] Originally by: Raider Zero The problem I see with a constellation wide local channel is that in the most heavily populated regions, you'll see local chat looking like the corp channel in a newb corp. In 0.0 it's probably pretty viable..... You're right of course and that would be a pain in the butt, but only really if local is used as it is at present for spammage and the like. And perhaps it could only be adopted in true 0.0 as a symptom of no empire having control over local systems and gates etcetcetc (insert requisite roleplay immersion as required). Oveur said that they (the devs) want to try to adopt a system that allows for friendly interaction with other players yet stops local being used as a tactical tool that it is at present. To that end, some sort of compromise must be reached. If 'local' is too busy then it can get closed at your leisure, no matter how many players are in it. It's function needs to go back to being a social interaction 'facility' with little or no use as a tactical tool. As it happens, constellation chat (system channels) works at present but doesn't show who is in it till you chat, I think that would work if perfectly if it showed how many were in the constellation so that you could get an idea of any surges in nearby areas without knowing specific intel unless you scout for it. As for the cloak thing, Originally by: Oveur Cloaked ships will be scanable, but they won't get uncloaked if they are found on the scanner. Which to me says that you will know 'where' they are but still can't get them unless you uncloak them by producing an accurate scan to land you close to them and for you to fly within 2km of them from where your warp in point is... I think that will alleviate the OPs concerns as with the right tools you can still find the NPCers and will also combat the 'AFK cloaked alt in system' tactic. At the same time it will not nerf true cov-ops pilots (on duty) as they can move as required if their spot gets busted without the enemy ever knowing how close they were to finding them.

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