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Make battleships and battlecruisers worth the warp! 2.0

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elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 423	Posted - 2014.11.05 14:14:43 - [1] - Quote Need to give this a read but first I want to give you some appreciation for putting a ton of effort into this! signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 423	Posted - 2014.11.05 22:59:00 - [2] - Quote James Baboli wrote: For those watching, initial commentary on almost every ship is up, and the overall problems and points to consider in the balancing pass as I see them are up for all the weapons. The remaining ships to go up are the faction battleships, and faction battlecruisers. Still debating if I want to bring the t2 BC + BS balance into this, as these ships are even more contentious than some of the pirate battleships. Thank you dear! I just read your document and as expected it is sound and accurate. Sidenote: While reading, you remind me of Azur Skoll (The Tuskers) and his EVE blog. So I want to give you a shout out here for your work in the past! Call me a beancounter but it really feels that battleships are not quite worth the pricetag they carry or the additional minerals they require to built. James, if you like I can give you some input for tachyon laser, large railgun turrets and large pulse laser and blaster turrets and or the medium ones for most of the former tier 1 and 2 battlecruisers. I will leave missiles out of this. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 425	Posted - 2014.11.06 01:05:58 - [3] - Quote Maraner wrote: -shorted for better reading- They were the most disadvantaged ships in the game from the damn warp speed changes, no one else needed to fit those modules except BS so BS lost either rigs, low slots or clone options just to go at the speed they went for during the last decade. My suggestion would be to raise the warp speed on ALL BS ships to 2.5 at least or ideally back to 3.0 and give then a buff of around 10% to base shield / armor levels. But I dont think it will happen. Good luck on your thread. This is what I would like the most. I have tried that in a similar thread a few weeks back and I wish James more luck than I had. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 427	Posted - 2014.11.06 12:24:23 - [4] - Quote Back in September 2006 when I started with 50.000 skillpoint New Eden was huge. So huge that I have a travel time of close to an hour for seven jumps from Todaki -> Autaris. It felt like the universe was a very big place. Maybe some of you might remember that having close to zero skillpoints in navigation made you have to warp in hops of 5-10AU at a time because you had to wait until your capacitor was recharged enough to make the next few warps to the 15km in front of the next gate that would take you to the next system. With time and skillpoints the universe became smaller but not less interesting. It almost pains me to say this but I will say it anyway. Now listen very carefully, gods of the Jovean, I told you so! Being accused of whatever you kids do on your weekends doesn't help the fact that I am a really, very bright cookie. I can predict things that will happen in the future long before they actually happen. Yes, that sounds arrogant and I know that the truth hurts, but it doesn't change anything - big surprise.. So thanks again, Joveans, for fixing problems you created with modules and implants that weren't necessary before. And nope, looking cool does not make the situation better, nor does this "offer" any choices that you want to make when you fly ships that are fitted for one purpose. The Philosopher, e2 signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 430	Posted - 2014.11.06 22:31:21 - [5] - Quote Dear James, I promised you something different but with further reading I changed my mind and will just add a few comments. While being viable, talking about tracking and other turret attributes will not bring us closer to what you want to achieve. So let me just give a few comments on the ships themselves. Rokh: While an excellent sniper with 425mm railguns at insane ranges of today, she lacks some mobility. If you forgo to fit a large cap booster you will cap yourself out with prolonged fireing of antimatter L, javelin L and spike L Megathron: You can do both with her, sniping and brawling and she can field a strong active tank but still lacks some mobility. Navy-thron: This would be the Megathron done right. Navy Dominix: Feels like a less agile Hyperion but doesn't lack any firepower. Hyperion: For short jumps and in a pure battleship field, she can hold her own with an unmatched active tank. I wouldn't recommend sniping with her though. The speed and agility seems fine. Apocalypse: Here I have to admit that I don't have a very long experience with lasers but what I have seen so far is that both pulse and beam laser fits are "punished by their gun" so to speak. She could be a tad more agile but the speed is okay-ish but both tech 2 pulse and beam laser crystals will cause more problems than their powergrid requirement. Navy Apocalypse: Better fitting, better everything. Doesn't suffer too much from shooting tech 2 crystals for a long period of time. Navy Armageddon: I like her. Good overall mobility, firepower is okay but still she suffers from shooting the guns for a long period of time, even more so with the bonuses. Abbadon: As you said, nice brick. She is better suited for fitting lots of 1600mm plates and have an Archon behind her to give her capacitor and armor reps. The capacitor is just sad and being a laser-boat - I got nothing.. Nightmare: Also nice brick. Wait what? Yeah, the Nightmare is one of the coolest looking ships in EVE but she could use some better engines. She is in dire need of more agility and a stronger afterburner bonus (not base speed). An active shield tank and even just four turret still hurt the capacitor alot. Large Laser Turrets: My advice would be in case of dire capacitor needs, shoot with standard L only. Anything that comes closer than 20km on beam laser ships will be the end of that fight. Anthing that gets below 5km for large pulse laser and it webbed and scrammed, will make your large hull convert into a white triangle, unless it's a Nightmare. Hybrid Turrets: Large railguns will put close to the same pressure on any capacitor, unless it's the Naga or a Talos. Large blasters don't have much capacitor problems, just range problems and tracking a small and close objects. Overall: All battleships are in dire need of better technology. Meaning, all sensor resolutions should be in a range of 150-175mm. By the time you may have a target lock on anything, you will probably have to upgrade your clone again. This must be a terrible funny joke in the Island office but the Caldari invented technology and they have the sensor resolution of a galaxy cluster, they should have the highest sensor resolution of all ships in EVE. What I can live with is warping with 2 AU/s on the way to action but what I cannot live with is the terrible brakes we have of the largest engines in New Eden. S..............................................................l............................................................o...........................................................w...................................ing down in 6d5h45m. Please wait. Weeks later and looking around on the grid. WARP DRIVE ACTIVE.....................(hey I landed half an hour ago)...................................WARP DRIVE ACTIVE..................................... One hour later.. Aaaah finally. I cannot comment on minmatar ships or auto-cannons. And as promised, I'll leave comments about missiles out of this. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 434	Posted - 2014.11.07 14:19:10 - [6] - Quote Katarina The Despoiler wrote: Theres been so many buffs to frig and cruiser hulls, that the BS have been left behind, It's at the point now, where BS is trained to jump onto caps... Many PvE applications for BS are overshadowed by T3s, t1 BS over shadowed in incursions by faction BS which generally don't get used in PvP anyway. I feel for the most part battle ships aren't even worth training these days and I would love to see any buffs or changes to them to encourage mid - advanced SP players to use them once more. Yes exactly. The changes to frigates and tech 1 cruisers were necessary and well recieved. Battlecruisers of the former tier 1 and 2 classes got lesser changes and at least in the Gallente thread the devs listened to what we said. The tier 3 class battlecruiser got minor changes in agility which now turn out to be unwarrented. Battleships were divided into attack and combat classes and were shaved of some base ehp for minor base speed changes. Note: The recent change to the capacitor need of 100nm mwds were a nice touch and in edge cases were you need high velocities for a longer duration this helps battleships alot. When the "tiericide" was announced, I made a long post in which I raised some concerns about "balancing". Experience showed a tendency to give instead of taking away. Now we have frigates doing 200-300 dps which doesn't sound much but everyone who attended primary school will know how to add values. Now five frigates or less are capable of murdering battleships without breaking a sweat. Everyone in their right mind will ask her or himself, why would I want to fly brick that cannot keep up or track all those smaller ships? For the same pricetag I can buy a HAC or some small tech 1 cruisers for me and some buddies and do amazing stuff. The only place where you can see a lot of battleship being used are in nullsec for ratting, mission runners and SiSi. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 435	Posted - 2014.11.07 14:45:57 - [7] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Too fat to do sub cap work where mobility matter a lot, not strong enough to do strategic jobs where cap are more effective. Very true on both accounts. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 440	Posted - 2014.11.08 15:18:09 - [8] - Quote FireFrenzy wrote: -shorted-I also like the idea of upping scanres on them in general Locking a frigate in 12 seconds with maxxed applicable skill is nice and all but wouldnt say 9 seconds also work? Would allow you atleast a glimmer of a chance to get the Atron barrling down on your ship with just enough transversal to be hard to hit... This is what I was going for with the scan resolution. By the way, if you are on SiSi people will use links and snake implants (the signature ones) and a linked interceptor takes 30 seconds to lock on in a Rattlesnake, Scorpion and Scorpion Navy Issue. "The minute" you have a target lock, that ceptor is either out of range or yoloing circles around you. In the battleship changes threads other and I did say that increasing the scan resolution to the range of 150-175mm on all battleships (all the things at level V) will not suddenly make them op or breake EVE. What happened then was that they more or less increaded and decreased the ehp on some ship to bring them "closer together". The idea behind it wasn't bad but the execution left some questions like, so my boat has less ehp for some higher top speed and will cost twice as much signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 441	Posted - 2014.11.09 05:13:04 - [9] - Quote James Baboli wrote: Zekora Rally wrote: Battleships need a good 30% increase in dps across the board. As it stands, we have all sorts of cruisers encroaching on battleship level DPS and tank plus better mobility and agility save for a handful. I think that 30% is more than a bit too high as an across the board buff, but certainly some ships and weapons are going to some fairly large increases if all goes as planned, mostly in things that currently under-perform. That's only because of links and suff thats smaller than an escape pod @5000+m/s. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 441	Posted - 2014.11.09 05:38:20 - [10] - Quote James Baboli wrote: ...Or because some weapons just need some real love. Large ACs are in a pretty bad spot for DPS, and are completely inferior out to linked faction point range. Yes poor projectile weapons, need no cap, haz 3 billion alpha and the short range guns have short range, that's really odd. signature

elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 441	Posted - 2014.11.09 14:39:21 - [11] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: If you want to help out the scorp I think rather then adding more jam power to make i relevent i think keeping it mostly the same but adding a cycle time reduction could make it useful in pvp again as well as adding a new way to use ECM/Burst (depending on the amount of reduction the strength bonus to ECM burst may need to be modified sigh ...you never forget your first... The Scorpion was my first ever battleship when I was still in (EVE-)diapers, only to loose her in a level 4 "Duo of Death" vs. Sanshas - ouch.. Scary territory dear. The ECM burst bonus is unique but not powerful enough to call broken, since it breakes target locks once and maybe once more 30 seconds later. I wish the Scorpion would actually be able to poke you from behind and knock you of your feet or out of your ship in our case. That automatic "primary" that the Scorpion has going right now is just sad. The only thing you will be jamming with her are tech 1 frigates and maybe tech 1 cuisers but everything else will just ignore her or make the call to remove her from the field. If it were up to me, I would make the Scorpion a "bigger Rook". signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 441	Posted - 2014.11.09 15:28:56 - [12] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: -gets too long to read- then it would start to but into the Widows role causing it to cycle faster will help it mix well with damping fleets as you raise your chance to jam but they don't last as long That is not what I want but black ops haven't being changed yet. Meaning that it wouldn't hurt the Scorpion if they do it. At this time it is difficult to talk about black ops because they lack something cool and unique besides the "bridge 50 bombers there, bomb, come home". While a nice featue the ships themselves don't offer that much. When you read "black ops" you think about some cool navy seals that sneak into enemy territory, do stuff, get out and not "jump 50 covert ops bombs with remote operation". Then we have this current pickle with our entire ewar. That's what I meant, when I said "scary territory". signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 443	Posted - 2014.11.10 01:55:09 - [13] - Quote Lugh, I would rather not go down this road. That being said, instead of giving, they should not fear to take away - in terms of firepower of smaller ships. James dear, when you further analyse the firepower of our existing battleships, you may stumble upon the fact that dps is not always same dps, even when the values are the same. Let me make an example, imagine a turret - any turret - which does one of the following 300dps: - a turret that does 3000hp / 10seconds (hint: cruiser size turret) - a turret that does 300hp / 1 sesonds (hint: frigate size) - a turret that does 30.000hp / 100 seconds (hint: battleship size) Which one would you prefer? All things being equal and all of those theoretical guns are doing 300dps. I hope you get, where I want to go with this. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 445	Posted - 2014.11.10 10:55:05 - [14] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: elitatwo wrote: That's only because of links and suff thats smaller than an escape pod @5000+m/s. Nope. These are nto supposed to be the battleships targets. When we detect a fleet of a few battleships and RR ships at 5-7 jumps and someoen ask if we shoudl bbring battleships. .the answer is always NO!!! BEcause battleships do nto bring extra damage capability Even over other battleships to be worth HUGE travel time Kagura dear, I know that and I wasn't solely talking about links, since roaming gangs don't have them with them all the time. I was referring of what is currently popular in space. Oh and despite sounding arrogant again, just three weeks ago I made a similar thread about battleships and battlecruisers and was harshly shut down. Out of sight, out of mind much!? You are right, don't get me wrong and I know that you have a long year experience on the field and everyone with long year experience is gratefully invited to come here and help to get something done. Maybe we even get the council of missile haters here. I will take any hp and firepower buff for battleships we can get even though I must be the most hated girl of mankind because I proposed something ahead of time. It still doesn't mean that is has less merrit because I was a few weeks early. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 447	Posted - 2014.11.11 07:10:54 - [15] - Quote James Baboli wrote: Question to you all who care: Are there particularly important ranges other than m4, t2 and top faction ranges for webs, scrams and points, with and without links that you want made a particular note of in the weapon comparisons? Is it worth noting loki web range for example, or just let those who care remember it and use that? Proteus point range? James dear, no that would be a little overboard. And as far as I know the ewar subs on tech 3 were in the same range as the current recon ships. Let's keep our focus on battleships and battlecruisers. James Baboli wrote: Also, are there any particular mistakes or additions in the issues with the t1 and pirate ships? I know I haven't gotten to the navy hulls yet, and I'm kicking myself on it and they are on the way for the self imposed end of the week deadline. As far as I have read it, it looks fine. Maybe you can mention the Gecko on the Rattlesnake which is a really strong wingman. The machariel and Barghest are becoming the posterchildren for mobilty and long(er) range kiting in a battleship hull. Top speeds of up to 2400m/s are no joke on them without heat. The Nestor is still trying to blend in and the Nightmare could just a very little more agility and afterburner top speed, nothing major, somewhere in the line of 10%. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 447	Posted - 2014.11.11 23:52:13 - [16] - Quote Nikk Narrel wrote: ...I believe that cruisers have overtaken battleships, and I lump battlecruisers in with cruisers for a good reason. The reason for this, is that the only difference between the ships is one of size. They were competing for the same exact roles, in too many cases. CCP has evolved the cruisers to absorb the roles previously performed by the BS.... One could argue that battleships were supposed to be a painful threat to cruisers and battlecruiser. Now those are just gankmails waiting to happen. So in an attempt to put battleships into this spot once again, changes are necessary. Another step might need to be taken to area of effect weapons, the 50 account yolo-bomber ones for instance. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 453	Posted - 2014.11.14 10:06:40 - [17] - Quote James Baboli wrote: ...@ FireFrenzy: Thanks for bringing up scan res. Definately gonna get looked at. Sorry we aren't FC bros no more, but lets still chill and make some mad isk together some time. Thank you James for almost listening what I was saying since the battleship rabalance threads got a sticky on. So I am poking you because I did say the same thing about scan resolution before FireFrenzy even with example values that should sound reasonable. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 453	Posted - 2014.11.14 15:58:11 - [18] - Quote James Baboli wrote: I am sorry. I wrote that last thing before bed during quite a long day yesterday. It's fine, dear! Just get enough attention that our council of missile haters and griefers grace us with their presents and we get something important accomplished. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 456	Posted - 2014.11.15 17:33:34 - [19] - Quote It should be clear now that we cannot discuss anything with goons. Kagura dear, the only thing that will happen is that you get mad I get mad very easy but lucky for the rest of mankind so far I only got upset so far. Humans are making any attempt in improving life unnecassary difficult and depressing. A small summary for what we are trying to do here: - Battleships get better mobility - Tech one battleships get better sensors as in signature resolution starting at 150mm for minmatar, 160 for Gallente, 170mm for Amarr and 180mm for Caldari, all of them, no exceptions. - Faction battleships start at the same range at 155mm for minmatar, 165mm for Gallente, 175mm for Amarr and 185mm for Caldari. All values for the sensors are maximum values with skills at V. - Base target lock range for all battleships start at 100km. - All turrets that shoot beyond 180km at this point get a tracking buff to accommodate for the shorter range(s). - All additional minerals that were added to the battleship bpos will be reset to the old values. Everyone except goons will be happy battleship pilots in New Eden. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 458	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:13:59 - [20] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: Here's what I'd like to see for a battleship rebalance: -All battleships get 50% more targeting range -All battleships get a 20% boost to capacitor regeneration -All battleships receive a 25% boost to base HP -Abaddon gets a mid moved to a low, and 20% more pg -Raven and Typhoon get their application bonuses applied to heavy missiles -Tempest loses its firing rate bonus, gets 2 turret slots, and a 7.5% tracking speed bonus per level -Remove the bonus to ECM burst radius on the scorpion, add a launcher slot and give it a 10% bonus to kinetic missile damage. Here's what I'd like to see for a battlecruiser rebalance: -Myrmidon, hurricane, and harbinger get 15% additional base capacitor regeneration -Tornado gets its falloff bonus switched to optimal range -Drake gets loses 1500 hull and gains 1500 shields -Ferox gains an extra turret slot, 100 grid and 50 CPU -Cyclone gains an extra launcher slot, loses two turret slots -Hurricane gets 44 m/s added to its base speed -Prophecy gains 75 pg Please let me know what you think about this, or if any of these are too much. Agreed for the most part. May I suggest an agility buff for the Raven, either inertia buff or mass reduction, whichever seems more agree-able. signature

elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 459	Posted - 2014.11.20 08:34:22 - [21] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: -shorted- Fair point, but I figured it's in a decent enough place in relation to the other attack battleships. I think having full usability and range with rapid heavies would be alright even with being clunkier, especially considering the potential it would have fighting cruisers at that point. True, maybe that was a perception thing but last Monday on SiSi even with links the Raven felt like she could use a tiny mobility improvement. Trinkets friend wrote: Warp speed From my POV, one of the biggest problems with BS and BCs is the warp speed. It just takes so long to even land on grid...its a good 5 seconds between when you saunter on to grid and when you can even begin to lock a target...with your crappy native 100mm scan res. All your targets are now either kiting, have you scrammed, are gone, or you are suffering EWAR, neuts, DPS before you can even begin affecting things. Compare this to any frigate or most cruisers warping on to grid - you just appear as if by magic where you need to be, and can begin affecting the outcome of the battle instantly. This infers that scan res and the warp onto grid is at least as important as the warp velocity. Even if the current warp velocity stays the same, the entry and exit from grid should be sped up significantly, so that BS and BC can begin making an impact. Yes dear! Hence my thread from last month with the title "We need better brakes". I can only hope that we get something like this done. Thing is, I can live with the 2AU/s warp speed on battleships but I cannot live with the time we appear on grid and are still in the process of slowing down when ceptors or other stuff is already kiting us, waiting to lock us and we start locking target but the second we can lock something to shoot at, we are going down signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 461	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:08:47 - [22] - Quote Nikk Narrel wrote: The devs should be fully aware of the dangers power creep holds to the game. When they made cruisers overtake the roles previously held by the BS class, and made the BS clearly less desirable for faster roams with the warp speed changes... that was not some oversight or mistake on their parts. Clearly, they are intending the BS class to have a role where these changes are no obstacle. So they made them for station games and close travel highsec pve, awesome.. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 464	Posted - 2014.11.21 14:58:41 - [23] - Quote Cardano Firesnake wrote: Yes, more Tank and more DPS for BC and BS. These ships are slow as hell so I agree that they must have an awesome firepower and Tank in counterpart. This is one part I do not agree with. Battleships already have a hefty tank and in some cases lots of ehp to boot with. Think about it, IF CCP were to give give more firepower and ehp for battlecruisers and battleships it will not take long for someone to ask for more firepower to kill them. And IF someone would ask for more firepower then the smaller ships would be in a spot "waiting" to get boosted to the according powerlevels. This is the very definition of a powercreep. While CCP and nobody else for that matter can nerf people, we get into this spiral. I think the best course of action is asking for reasonable things we can all agree upon without "breaking the game" - our game. Think about this as a peace treaty where both parties get something and if all goes well both leave a little pleased and a little unhappy. What I do not want is going one step ahead and then two step backwards, that gets us nowhere. So I my more or less passionate opinion on that matter is that we ask more more scan resolution - that value on the fitting screen that determines how quickly we can target lock another ship or collidable object to a level that does no longer deter us from using those ships we hold dear. And to "ice the cake" a carefully placed mobility increase which I know some of you may not agree with (my analogy with a jet-ski approaching guns blazing a high-tech US Navy ship comes to mind). signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 464	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:22:43 - [24] - Quote SFM Hobb3s wrote: Hate to break it to you, but everything sub-bc already got its 'power creep'. Boost EHP and dps of battleships, and yes, people will want something more powerful to beat them, like, say, battleships? IMHO more people in battleships would be a good thing, no? Don't. And don't even feel bad about it. Of course more people in battleships would be great, so people start fighting back with them. Yes the powercreep already happened, just like I told everyone in a long post at the tine when the tiericide was announced. I had my concers first but it turned out not too bad until battlecruisers and battleships were being changed and made twice as expensive without much merrit. We could be behind that frigates and tech one cruisers were in dire need of something and they have their weaknesses, so the price increase wasn't bad at all. When battleships tiers went away and ontop of that the (mineral) price was increased, the performance was increased that much to warrant the additional cost. The rest is written history at this point signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 464	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:34:50 - [25] - Quote Bullet Therapist wrote: -shorted for reading- In the case of battleships and battlecruisers, rebalance involves some bigger number than they do with the other subcaps, and I think honestly think that's the heart of the issue. They're afraid, and rightly so, of making big changes because they don't want things to scale out of control. The problem with that line of thinking though is that because of how speed, tracking, and signature radius work, small and fast ships scale much more quickly with buffs than bigger ships do. Bullet dear, they had no problem at all throwing that warp speed thing upon us at the worst time possible and say, slurp that! signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 464	Posted - 2014.11.21 22:41:43 - [26] - Quote Bullet Therapist wrote: -shorted- Also, I think that you might be mis-interpreting me here, I'm arguing that power creep is one of the reasons that battleships are in such a funk right now, and that despite what CCP says, it's probably going to keep happening despite their efforts and awareness of it. That was in response of making large changes. In case I have taken your post out of context, I apologize! Experience tells us that nerfing and buffing can get out whack really quickly. Take the Drake and hurricane nerf prior to the battlecruiser rebalance for example. The Drake was over-nerfed and now she is barely squeezed into one viable pvp fit that isn't worth undocking. Before that the True Sansha ships were over-nerfed and the other pirate faction ships were buffed in Apocrypha, leaving the Sansha ships in a sad state until the pirate faction ship changes. Don't get me wrong, I am all for a buff of battleships so they "can keep up" and the never ending up-spiral of powercreep keeps happening, I was taking that as a given. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 464	Posted - 2014.11.22 06:26:06 - [27] - Quote baltec1 wrote: -shorted-Battleships haven't been widely used in roaming gangs since CCP added tracking and diminishing returns to mods. Maybe but you want to see them back as much as we do, no? signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 464	Posted - 2014.11.22 06:46:17 - [28] - Quote baltec1 wrote: -shorted- People will always make excuses to not use them in small gangs for all the reasons they haven't used them for the last decade. There is a good number of ships that don't see a lot of use for no good reason. My excuse is the pricetags people come up with when they have weird dreams in the night. I would love to fly a lot of ships and have expensive brain surgery performed on me but I cannot afford that kind of stuff. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 466	Posted - 2014.11.22 23:26:59 - [29] - Quote Bullet Therapist wrote: -shorted for reading- I think that the issue lies with the perception that power creep is somehow a negative phenomenon and hurts the game over time. I don't think that in the case of EVE that this is really true. As dumb as it seems to write it, and I hate doing this, I think that it comes from games like WoW, where repeated expansions and the need to differentiate the comparative strengths between old and new content, leads to tremendous, exponential stat growth between expansions. Now, when the discussion turns to the poor performance of battleships, people are reluctant to see changes based on their expectations of what will happen with power creep, and are averse to the kind of numbers that battleships will need to make them competitive with other classes of ships. Good stuff BTW, glad you posted and I enjoyed reading it. Bullet dear, while I do not know about other games, the very same discussion was held a while back in the old forums. Your observation might be right, though in my case, I have never been active in another forum but EVE. Years back when "the old" cruisers were in dire need of something that would make them worth flying, EVE was infected with rule breaking bots that broke the economy. Battleships and battlecruiser were not that different from the earlier days. EVE was in a meta and at a breaking point into a wasteland. As far as the forums goes, pilots were talking about powercreep very early on. While powercreep is not even a bad thing, it was associated with a bitter taste over time. EVE was so very different than it is now and nerfs or buffs came maybe twice a year. Some of you might remember Apocrypha and the pirate ship balance. The Sansha ships were up to this point the goto pirate-solo-bbq-ftw-pwn-mobiles so to speak. With Apocrypha they were nerfed and the rest of them buffed in a way that left Sansha ships so far behind that is took them "only" about six years to fix them. This is where the "bitter taste" comes from, here and even from other games, which I cannot comment on. EVE didn't have the numbers from today and when TQ was showing about 5000 people online at Europe time zones "prime time" and soloers and small numbers of pirates in lowsec had a blast. Back then, soloers, videomakers and lowsec pirates that wanted to be in space for longer durations took battleships or battlecruisers into space depending on if they wanted some increased mobility vs firepower and tank. Smaller ships didn't have much firepower and the number of people you were engaging in where not a large thread to your ship(s), so you could bust a gatecamp in your battleship and tank them all for quite some time. Battleships, like you said, were not as expensive as today and the income you had was measured in how much level 4 missions you could make. Another "bitter taste" comes from exactly that, the price. While some currency manipulators will not like what I am about say, the close to 100% mineral increase in a battleship bpo production didn't help battleships and battlecruisers either and that is what the prices are coming from. Thing is, the increased "price" does not even compare in the slightest to the raw performance in- or decrease as a whole. While battleships and battlecruisers between themselves can deal with each other, all of the smaller ships very given so much more power that the bigger and less mobile ships can no longer deal with them. Modules like those asb shield boosters didn't help the game either. What they did is that they allow smaller ships to field battleship-like tanks and left battleships much further behind. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 467	Posted - 2014.11.23 10:08:30 - [30] - Quote Albert Spear wrote: -shortened for reading, I don't want to be disrespectful- Having served on almost every class of ships listed above in my career, I can tell you that Eve's idea of a battleship does not even begin to match what a real battleship was... This is completly off topic, but I will say it anyway. I salute you, sir! signature

elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 468	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:14:30 - [31] - Quote Kaerakh wrote: Bullet Therapist wrote: Albert Spear wrote: Lots of good stuff. I like the synopsis of navy history here, but I think in the context of EVE ship names are really just names, we could call battleships Ice cream sandwiches and it wouldn't really have a big impact on game balance. I think drawing analogies to real historical contexts can be fun sometimes, but it isn't really helpful for game balance. I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at, but it probably wouldn't benefit the game to try to emulate real world physics or combat in EVE. Yeah, unfortunately, while interesting, the post has no real relevance to the current discussion. Maybe, but it gives a few important pointers where to look at when we analyse where our battleships a dire lacking. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 471	Posted - 2014.11.24 03:11:36 - [32] - Quote Bullet Therapist wrote: -shortned- Edit: Anyhow, I want to know, what do you think should happen with battleships and battlecruisers? How do you think they should be changed, if at all and why? So far, I'll let James run the show and if I believe that something is off too much I'll point it out. Please excuse my ignorance on minmatar ships, since I don't fly them. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 487	Posted - 2014.11.28 10:47:08 - [33] - Quote James Baboli wrote: Bullet Therapist wrote: And the napoc doctrine took a little bit of a nerf today, not a bad one really, but they didn't need it. I missed it. What happened? Read the stickies signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 494	Posted - 2014.12.01 00:36:10 - [34] - Quote James Baboli wrote: and its the sort of small change that would be great as a polish pass, if there weren't cliffs of imbalance between many larger issues. Like large guns and ships or large guns on way too small ships. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 504	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:54:05 - [35] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Both ships can kill the other but in terms of raw firepower the brutix wins. The brutix also gets to fit more tank in both active and buffer as well as the ability to fit things such as the 100mn AB. ...only on the fitting screen! The 1053dps Brutix will do something in the range of 200dps against the resistance of a Deimos, which in return can tank that Brutix with one rep and kill it. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 505	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:45:30 - [36] - Quote James Baboli wrote: He did specify thorax, and lets not quible. I will agree that because of how the two ships are most often set up (pretty straight DPS and tank, with mostly just DPS, tackle and tank, no fancy stuff) that the brutix will usually murder the thorax. Oh, I read Deimos.. The Thorax is a complete different story and will die in scram range immediately. But let's not talk Thorax in a battleship thread, shall we? signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 505	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:11:29 - [37] - Quote baltec1 wrote: elitatwo wrote: James Baboli wrote: He did specify thorax, and lets not quible. I will agree that because of how the two ships are most often set up (pretty straight DPS and tank, with mostly just DPS, tackle and tank, no fancy stuff) that the brutix will usually murder the thorax. Oh, I read Deimos.. The Thorax is a complete different story and will die in scram range immediately. But let's not talk Thorax in a battleship thread, shall we? Argument was the battlecruisers are outmatched by t1 cruisers. Thats simply not true. In that case, I agree. The thing that makes cruisers so strong is good firepower with very good mobility and kiting is the current sexy style which leaves them behind. Do you think it would breake EVE if battleships got better sensors to get a quicker target lock on things? signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 505	Posted - 2014.12.03 23:19:54 - [38] - Quote Bullet Therapist wrote: Most brutixes aren't doing that much DPS now anyhow. Hull tanked the generally have in the 6-700 range, any higher than that and they start losing a lot of buffer quickly. Dual web brutixes can fit a medium neut, but a deimos can still comfortably tank it's dps with one rep running and an occasional pulse from the second without having to worry about it's cap booster being strained. Small neut MMJD brutix fits fair a little worse but either one will go down to a competent deimos pilot. Oh. My excuse is that I didn't make a rail-kiting Brutix fit yet. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 505	Posted - 2014.12.03 23:47:00 - [39] - Quote baltec1 wrote: People not using them does not mean they are underpowered. People in games will always follow the FOTM rather than use a wide range of ships. The rook for example is a great ship that sees very little use because people just dont know about it because they never fly anything outside of the current FOTM. So nerf people You didn't answer my question yet. I am curious what you think? signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 505	Posted - 2014.12.04 00:02:37 - [40] - Quote baltec1 wrote: -snip- I run off the rule of if your target dies before you can lock it then your gang didn't need your firepower anyway. Interesting! That would imply that you have support and are on the "giving" end of things, I would be curious to know that your stance would be from the "recieving" end? signature

elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 505	Posted - 2014.12.04 00:25:15 - [41] - Quote Bullet Therapist wrote: -snip- WTF? lol you... What I meant was, when you have a fleet and your battleships just adds firepower and in the other case the battleships jumps into a camp of small ships - eeek.. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 505	Posted - 2014.12.04 00:31:21 - [42] - Quote James Baboli wrote: baltec1 wrote: Bullet Therapist wrote: elitatwo wrote: baltec1 wrote: -snip- I run off the rule of if your target dies before you can lock it then your gang didn't need your firepower anyway. Interesting! That would imply that you have support and are on the "giving" end of things, I would be curious to know that your stance would be from the "recieving" end? WTF? lol Calm your dirty mind! -gets the ceremonial pants of jimmy rustling- Yep, its gonna be one of those threads for a post or two. Hey we made it 16 pages without "incidents" Should we give up hope for ever getting a "blue" opinion in here? signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 505	Posted - 2014.12.04 00:40:32 - [43] - Quote James Baboli wrote: I've been told by a few members of CSM that they would make sure to point it out to those blue ribbon folks, but so far neither set has commented. Maybe you could poke that member, to grace us with her / his presents here? signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 514	Posted - 2014.12.15 19:29:48 - [44] - Quote baltec1 wrote: People do silly things like that. Another example is their refusal to deliberately use the smaller sized large guns even though you have the fitting room for the biggest high damage ones. Sometimes I wonder if you put sarcasm into your line of thinking or not?! Even if you put the largest possible guns on a battleship and the obligatory propulsion + tank, you still face the problem you cannot hit anything small with them. Let's take the Rokh as a posterchild railboat here. You should have no problem whatsoever to fit a full rack of 425mm railguns on that ship + shieldtank - be it buffer for logi if you have that. Let's say you face an Interceptor gang zooming around the field. The ceptor gang can leave whenever they want and your turrets won't hit any of them while they can sink you and your logi with impunity. You may recall that you could bust a gatecamp of smaller ships with some stress to your tanking mods and win. Either folks are even more risk averse then before or the tools are lacking. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 514	Posted - 2014.12.15 19:42:17 - [45] - Quote James dear, finally I got the time to look over your values and so far I like what I see. Let me add a few comments on ships that I can sit in. Your doc takes very carefull into account where all ships are lacking and without making them "odd" you pinpoint exactly where I would point my finger on. It is not a must but if you take "common" fits into account for the "attack" line, you sould know that especially the Hyperion, the Apocalypse and the Raven want to fit a mwd. The Apocalypse will make this more apperent and losing 25% capacitor can make megabeam lasers taxing. The Rohk still has no reason to have a singature radius of a small planet and 475 or even 465mm should be large enough. The Scorpion is such an oddity. When I started she already was that large Blackbird but upon reason a little history, she used to be a turret boat. I have no objections on the rest of the Amarr or Gallente lineup and you know I don't fly minmatar, so I cannot comment of them. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 514	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:07:04 - [46] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: ... Refusal to use smaller large guns mean people don't want to use ions/electron/350/dual 250mm rail ... I admit I'm usually guilty of this but then again, I never said I was good at fitting ships. I do understand. On one of my Apocalype fits I use smaller large pulses so I can fit two large reps or Ion blasters on a Navy Dominix fit. There is nothing wrong with that. We have to make the same choices for smaller ships. One of the problems of large guns is that even the smaller model won't gain you much. baltec1 wrote: For cepters its missiles you want, a rapid light missile raven for example is downright deadly to cepters and bombers. My point is the smaller sized large weapons are ignored by the very people who complain about poor tracking. You can get suprisingly good tracking out of electons for example. I didn't say you don't. You should also know that I don't always get to choose what I will be facing since I don't have a say in "doctrines". I do wander in a boat and time of my choosing and have to deal what people throw at me. But we can agree on that most of the fellas will fit for the occasion or just bail. That is what I take from my short years of experience. Only every now and then you have an amazing fight that fits your boat and fitting perfectly. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 517	Posted - 2014.12.18 21:23:38 - [47] - Quote baltec1 wrote: If anything logi needs nerfed from current levels, our fleets are already nigh invincible vs smaller organisations. If they made a battleship class logi boat the repping power should be what the current logi cruisers have with an emphesis on large reps and the logi cruisers toned down and all about medium reps like the tech one general logis. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 518	Posted - 2014.12.20 06:07:35 - [48] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Most people dont fly 90% of the ships out there, they only aim for whatever the fotm is. Also dont use real life examples to try and justify yourself in an internet spaceship game. Just because you have no idea how to use a ship does not mean it is underpowered in any way. That is true. Thing is that even before the warp speed changes battleships were put in that awkward position of being twice as expensive to build for the sole purpose of being more expensive to build. What I can get behind is that frigates and cruiser got more expensive to build but they were given a ton of more performance so I think it is okay. When battlecruisers and battleships were changed I could not get behind the reasoning for making them that much more expensive to build. The performance didn't change much and only a few slots were changed. See the Brutix and the Ferox were exchanged so that the Brutix has 6 turret slots and the Ferox has 7 of them. Before the change they were reversed. The Prophecy got a nice change and the Drake and hurricane were overnerfed - twice. Some of the battleships even got ehp reduced but got increased build cost which are not even a little warranted. Can you see now that battlecruisers to some extend and battleships are in dire need of something worthwhile? I think James has put this nice in the right direction in his sheet. Not too dramatic changes where approtiate and some ehp here and there. Now even if they still warp slow they might be considered worth undocking if we do it right this time. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 603	Posted - 2015.03.31 21:04:18 - [49] - Quote Shaklu wrote: In my opinion Battleship tank and damage should be doubled, or made to be closer to 15-20% of a Dreadnaught. They seem to have been changed very little over the years, while many new powerful ships have been added and since eclipsed the role of BS in fights. You can fit a T2 Cruiser to have more tank and equal dps as a Battleship, with a tiny sig radius and high agility and speed, effectively making them better than Battleships in every single way. Heck, the Ishtar even uses Battleship weapons and is literally a Dominix with high speed, agility, and a tiny signature. So buff up the BS... While I agree that battleships need something to compensate for the current shortcomings, a simple damage and or ehp buff won't do. You just contradicted yourself and already answered the right question. Here is the thing, you can triple or make battleships damage even tenfold - it just won't do you any good. Take an Apocalyse and let's say mega-pulses do 3000dps on that Apocalyse. Then take a linked tengu or whatnot and try to hit it - nada. You can have all the damage you want on your fitting screen but if your gun doesn't hit for any shot you just end up doing zero damage or for the slow - 0 dps. From the other site of that fight any cruiser will do 100% to that Apocalypse of what the fitting screen is telling you it will. Even at 1100m/s with an mwd on that Apocalypse will not be able to mitigate any damage since she will have the signature radius of the milky way galaxy at that speed. And as I said earlier last week, the concept of 'fast attack' battleships went out the window before the tiericide approach at the concept phase. When those mjd's were introduced they could have been a thing that battleships would have going for them but three minutes is just too long - your 250m battleship will be a yellow triangle in space by then anyways. There are things that need to be looked at but the paper damage isn't on the list - their application is. Long range battleship gun would need a hefty tracking increase, the signature resolution on all battleships hulls need a generous buff and short range battleship guns would need a need a milder tracking increase. Now I have to brake a promise to James here and I hope he won't be too mad at me for it. By battleship guns I mean all battleship wepaon system - yes CCP Fozzie that mean missile too. You can make your jokes in front of a camera and believe I won't listen but you are clearly mistaken - information has always found a way to reach me - without even asking for it. You may not realize it yet but my thread about missiles from four months ago does was sincere, maybe a little early for the meta to catch up but here we go. At least some of you know that I will have adapted to metas before they even hit TQ. That paired with a mild back-roling on the warpspeed and the pre-tiericide mineral requirement to build them will bring battleships back on the field and fun to fly and loose and do it all over again. signature
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 621	Posted - 2015.04.07 01:12:50 - [50] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Well, Rapids exist - why not this. Double standards all around: Droneboats with 1-3 more bonuses per hull vs. other turret ships, missile ships with RL/HMLs, while turrets enjoy 400m/125m sig res. Really explains this graph of PvP damage done by shiptype, segmented by weapon types - http://i.imgur.com/z4ynWV9.png I wouldn't mind if battleships guns would get changed to 275m signature resolution instead of 400m they have now and a 50% tracking buff and put it on SiSi and see what happens. If you don't like it, don't release it. Another gimmick could be that 100mn mwds would be immune to scrams so that at least some battleships could at least try to slingshot something smaller. signature

elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 642	Posted - 2015.04.23 11:34:08 - [51] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: What James said is correct. Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Some random thought on increasing BS utility/survivability: Halve the number of Turrets/Launcher Hardpoints and compensate with a Damage Role bonus. This is being done to T3 Destroyers, albeit for different reasons. This frees up the precious Highslots for Neuts, Smartbombs, better OH performance, even RR. Success stories: Marauders, Nightmare, Bhaalgorn, and all Battleship drone boats. Tempest would have a total of 3 Turrets, Apoc - 4, etc. What do you people think of this idea? No that doesn't solve the problems they are facing. As I said before, if you hit nothing no amount of dps will help you. And since battleships got reduced in performance and doubled in price they are not worth undocking. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 642	Posted - 2015.04.23 18:23:30 - [52] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: How many logi should be required to outrep 1 mega for it to be balanced? I agree with Baltec here. You may want to look at it this way, one logi is no problem but 2x logi makes ships indestructable at least in small gangs. The risk vs reward is out of whack by a margin there. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 642	Posted - 2015.04.23 20:26:18 - [53] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Taking the Megathron with 7 Turrets as an example: Mega has 7 * (1 / (1 - 0.25 RoF bonus)) = 9.33 Effective turrets, by reducing the Turret hardpoint count to 4, we get 5.33 Effective turrets, so to compensate that, a 75% Role damage bonus brings it back to 9.33. ... Well that means that there will only be 3 gun battleships with 239892823 neuts on in different colors - who needs diversity anyway.. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 650	Posted - 2015.04.30 09:57:44 - [54] - Quote James Baboli wrote: Suggested stats for navy caldari and minmatar hulls are up in the working space. Offcially supporting the changes contained in the OP of battlecruiser application bonus thread as the way to go to make CBCs worth flying, and part of a holistically balance sub-cap environment which includes all sizes of sub-caps. May get other navy hulls done yet this morning. I said this before but you have been doing so much to keep this up that I must say thank you once more! Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 656	Posted - 2015.05.03 18:22:04 - [55] - Quote I actually like the split bonus on the Navy Dominix. It gives the younger Vexor pilots an idea on how this ship would be if they train for it. And she will not be entirely useless once all the drones have been destroyed. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 670	Posted - 2015.05.15 15:38:45 - [56] - Quote James dear, I am not conviced that bigger plates or shield extenders are the way to go because that will end up with a thread like this in the not distant future. Many threads like this one were made here which lead to the tiericide announcement in late 2011. With Crucible and Retribution came the cruisers and a very heavy nerf to the most popular ships of that time. When they the devblog about the tiericide I had some reservations and made a long list of what could go wrong if they give too much. Now here we are. Except for most faction and pirate faction battleships the general tech one need a little something to make them worth undocking once more. While being a huge success the attack and combat line of battleships just doesn't work in the nano ageGäó 2.0 and the main reason for asking for more tank is that battleships are prone to recieve more damage - 70-100% of all what cruisers have ready to throw at them. The mjd was certainly a good idea but the module has too many downsides to have them as a mandatory everyday module. The mwd capacitor consumption was a very good and welcome mini-buff in overall mobility of battleships. Movement is the single most important aspect of pvp and I think we should start there and give battleships some resiliance to propulsion systems like all battleships mjds and mwds can no longer be turned of by any scram and a 50% less effectiveness of stasis webbifiers on battleships. And an overall gun signature reduction to 275mm instead of 400mm should help with tracking. (Then put it on SiSi and let us take an extended look) Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 671	Posted - 2015.05.15 16:35:44 - [57] - Quote James Baboli wrote: elitatwo wrote: Movement is the single most important aspect of pvp and I think we should start there and give battleships some resiliance to propulsion systems like all battleships mjds and mwds can no longer be turned of by any scram and a 50% less effectiveness of stasis webbifiers on battleships. And an overall gun signature reduction to 275mm instead of 400mm should help with tracking. (Then put it on SiSi and let us take an extended look) Resilience is already a factor in inertia, and I am seriously against removing the ability to lock down an MWD with a scram as anything but maybe a bonus for a T3 subsystem or pirate faction role bonus, as the inconsistency of such a mechanic is gamechanging and extremely powerful... Yes it can be but look what we have right now, take a Megathron into lowsec and only very few seconds later you will have 23 sleipnirs and 3837274 rapiers or huggins on the field until 23736718389757281 ishtars arrive to 'get on zee mail'.. If you fraps that 10 second fight you will see that one regular web slows down a battleship that moves very slow by natur already that by definition it is pinned down, scrams or not. Leaving the mwd on increases the already large signature by a ton and let's the battleship take even more damage - even heavy missile damage. So even if you had a mjd on that Megathron to jump 100km of and start shooting with long range guns or not a dual-prob fit with something that can be called an active tank, your options on your weaponary is very limited on this fit already. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 671	Posted - 2015.05.15 18:01:22 - [58] - Quote SFM Hobb3s wrote: I still think that the best change they could make to all battleships would be to remove the weapon bonus that are based on class, allow that bonus to apply to all weapon sizes. This would give battleships the choice to fit some large weapons but keep some smaller ones for point-defense, or even have some battleships in a fleet solely set for point defense work. and if CCP thinks that having a BS with a full rack of bonused small guns is just a little too OP, they could lock the bonus to a specific number of hislots or whatever. ... which reminds me of the small beam laser Rokh... Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 681	Posted - 2015.06.02 21:22:18 - [59] - Quote jeebus the market.... What all tech one battleships need is a dire price decrease to match their 'usefulness'. I am not willing to pay 200 million for a bare Armageddon hull that used to cost 100m. Unless the Armageddon got a 300% sentry tracking and range buff, the price is wayyyy out of whack and so are other hulls. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 681	Posted - 2015.06.02 21:30:43 - [60] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: elitatwo wrote: jeebus the market.... What all tech one battleships need is a dire price decrease to match their 'usefulness'. I am not willing to pay 200 million for a bare Armageddon hull that used to cost 100m. Unless the Armageddon got a 300% sentry tracking and range buff, the price is wayyyy out of whack and so are other hulls. Increasing the mat requirement to build everything push everything up... I know dear, I do have blueprints of several ships and took a look on them (note to self, don't look in the industry tab again..). Just saying it stinks Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!

elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 682	Posted - 2015.06.02 22:31:18 - [61] - Quote Sylvous wrote: I think that the following thread has caught the issue with BS' quite well: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=420645&find=unread Its not that BS' aren't good (they are), its that their primary targets (BC's) are not worth their price tag compared to cruisers after the cruiser buff. So with limited BC's beeing fielded BS' don't have much use. A buff to battlecruisers would make battleships matter again because there would be a point to flying both. Where do you think Stich got that idea from? I like what he is doing and he isn't wrong to do it. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 694	Posted - 2015.06.25 07:08:58 - [62] - Quote Now even though I don't fly minmatar, let me say, ouch! Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 750	Posted - 2015.07.20 16:39:26 - [63] - Quote Yep. This should stay front page material for the time being. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 753	Posted - 2015.07.21 21:04:46 - [64] - Quote Jezza McWaffle wrote: Brilliant thread this, in my opinion the current t1 line of battleships could be changed in price slightly (general increase over the board but decrease on the old tier 3 ones).... #1: Agreed. The build cost need to go back to where they were before the tiericide. #2: Nope. That would bring back tiers again. As I said when the tiericde came battleships didn't warrant any price increase at all while the tech one cruiser line did. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 757	Posted - 2015.07.23 17:42:12 - [65] - Quote The buildcost in minerals was what I meant with price increase. They still don't warrant any of it. Battlecruisers didn't warrant the increase either but Stich is already fighting for them and CCP said something about a change to them after the tournament, so fingers crossed. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 757	Posted - 2015.07.23 23:26:01 - [66] - Quote Have a nice holiday, James and no worries we have been behaving for about 30 pages now, I'm not intending to change that. Stich, the tournament start at the second August weekend on August 13th in think and end two week later. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 815	Posted - 2015.08.26 17:57:21 - [67] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: FireFrenzy wrote: I checked the flagships for the AT and they seemed to be Geddons, bhaals, PhoonFleets, some scorp navy's and a rattlesnake or two.. IE, all the ships we know are decent and mostly the same ones... Drones and neuts, neuts and web, no idea, tanky, tanky and drones. neuts they only gameplay for the weak. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 815	Posted - 2015.08.26 18:50:18 - [68] - Quote FireFrenzy wrote: says the person who doesnt have bhaals with 5 points in amarrian battleships... Or a spidertanked dominixes&geddons docterine:) I like the Armageddon, don't get me wrong, it's just that every ship in EVE must have 5 neuts or go home. And flying a blobb of battleships in w-space only provides you with new connections or a not funny new way of getting into the unkown. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 816	Posted - 2015.08.27 18:48:13 - [69] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: ...I just came here mainly to say.. wheres the BC rebalance thread? :) (Yes i know, after AT....) I am twiddleing my thumbs too. Been curious what they have in store for them. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!

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