| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Hoshi Takasu
Caldari
Takasu Trading International
   |
Posted - 2006.08.26 15:07:00 -
[1]
Since i couldnt find anything similair currently in existance and became somewhat annoyed with having to look on the Jita market for average prices i set out find people to help me create an online and dynamic Moon Mineral Price Index.
The Layout Preview can be seen here.
This is the index that displays all the diffrent basic minerals, The last average price (Havent decided if ill update it once a week or every 3 days), the total amount of Sell Orders on the market, the lowest sell order available, the average price for this week and the change in price between the last measurement and this one.
If you click on one of the mineral names it will take you to a page that displays more detailed information regarding that minerals behaviour on the market such as a graph detailing its price change of the last ~20 weeks as well as the overall supply change over that period. There will most likely be a small header detailing the possible profit you can stand to make on that mineral per POS size as well. This page however is still being coded so no preview there yet.
Depending on how many people visit it and the type of respone it gets once its done we might add simple and advanced reactions as well.
Comments, suggestions, etc are welcome.
PS: Looking for a website host as well, payment is ISK. 2-3 FTP accounts, 1 database, not too much MB of storage required. Convo me ingame with offers 
- = - = - = -
|
Astasia Orian
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.26 16:26:00 -
[2]
Very nice :)
|
voidvim
Minmatar
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.08.26 17:07:00 -
[3]
woot sound really cool
|
arkarsk
Provenance.
|
Posted - 2006.08.26 17:54:00 -
[4]
Amazing! I had to go through a lot of confusion to determine whether or not the stuff i was going to moon mine was worth it or not. This can definitely be a great asset to the community.
-----------------
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
;_; |
Serenity Steele
Rearden Steele
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.08.26 23:12:00 -
[5]
It would be great to see this service include the 'real price' of the minerals by using a derviation of the price of processed and advanced materials.
This would also place a definitive price on simple and complex reactions.
I have a computational model that should do the analysis correctly, but lack continuous data. (another project waiting to be done  ). Maybe we could do something together?
Please contact me in-game about hosting, I may be able to help, depending on what type of DB you want to use.
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
|
Hoshi Takasu
Caldari
Takasu Trading International
|
Posted - 2006.08.27 01:58:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Serenity Steele
It would be great to see this service include the 'real price' of the minerals by using a derviation of the price of processed and advanced materials.
This would also place a definitive price on simple and complex reactions.
Hmm i like that idea, ill convo you somewhere tommorow (Sundayish) about it
Originally by: Serenity Steele
Please contact me in-game about hosting, I may be able to help, depending on what type of DB you want to use.
I need a MySQL database.
- = - = - = -
|
Hoshi Takasu
Caldari
Takasu Trading International
|
Posted - 2006.08.27 17:28:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Hoshi Takasu on 27/08/2006 17:30:07
While doing some quick math to come up with the best database layout i bumped into interesting info.
Lets assume youre trying to make crystalline carbonide, youll need 100 carbon polymers and 100 crystalite alloy.
carbon polymers requires 100 Silicates and 100 Hydrocarbons, market value 216.49 and 99.29 ISK P/U respectivly.
100 carbon polymers would cost ((100*216.49)+(100*99.29)) = $31,612 in materials to produce, which means 158.06 P/U.
Average Price for 1 carbon polymer in Jita is 695.95 P/U.
crystalite alloy requires 100 Cadmium and 100 Cobalt, market value 1146.09 and 360.02 ISK P/U respectivly.
100 crystalite alloys would cost ((100*1146.09)+(100*360.02)) = $150,611.00 in materials to produce, which means $753.06 P/U.
Unfortunatly existing market price info available on this one.
Combining 100 of each you get 10.000 crystalline carbonide for $91,111.50 ISK ((150611/2)+(31612/2)), which places it at $9.11 ISK per unit. The Lowest sell order price in Jita is 71 isk.
Either i screwed up my math or people are crazy to just sell the raw minerals on the market...  Profit margins on reacted materials are pretty huge...
- = - = - = -
|
Pick Me
|
Posted - 2006.08.27 18:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hoshi Takasu
Edited by: Hoshi Takasu on 27/08/2006 17:30:07
While doing some quick math to come up with the best database layout i bumped into interesting info.
Lets assume youre trying to make crystalline carbonide, youll need 100 carbon polymers and 100 crystalite alloy.
carbon polymers requires 100 Silicates and 100 Hydrocarbons, market value 216.49 and 99.29 ISK P/U respectivly.
100 carbon polymers would cost ((100*216.49)+(100*99.29)) = $31,612 in materials to produce, which means 158.06 P/U.
Average Price for 1 carbon polymer in Jita is 695.95 P/U.
crystalite alloy requires 100 Cadmium and 100 Cobalt, market value 1146.09 and 360.02 ISK P/U respectivly.
100 crystalite alloys would cost ((100*1146.09)+(100*360.02)) = $150,611.00 in materials to produce, which means $753.06 P/U.
Unfortunatly existing market price info available on this one.
Combining 100 of each you get 10.000 crystalline carbonide for $91,111.50 ISK ((150611/2)+(31612/2)), which places it at $9.11 ISK per unit. The Lowest sell order price in Jita is 71 isk.
Either i screwed up my math or people are crazy to just sell the raw minerals on the market... Profit margins on reacted materials are pretty huge...
No you are right.
-There are many that simply don't understand how to make isk with POS (thus they should'nt try).
-There are many that are too afraid to own a POS (you can spot them when they say 4 Dreads can blow up any POS in eve).
-Then there are thoses that do it. Usually, they don't speak about it because less competition mean better profit.
Like you said, the cost versus the selling price seem to indicate it would be very rewarding, it could be. Depend on many things.
Also don't forget some of us base their price on spreadsheets and not the current market (even if we are buying the stuff).
So our selling price will be higher. It's not our problem if many are selling their raw at a loss, it's only turning into our profit.
It's not easy money since thoses that are selling at a loss won't last long, they will stop working (ice mining or stop hauling the fuel) or they will ran out of cash. At one point or another, they will be taken out of the system, so we cannot rely on them in the long run.
There is also the gaz dumping (evaporite etc) that are mined on the side by an harv to a silo that will be dropped on the market in hope to drive some out of the market. The size of that is hard to know, it's happening but since Jita run out of all the gaz at one time or another, it must not be that big. |
Andrew Gunn
Frontline Defense Force
Maelstrom Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.08.27 19:28:00 -
[9]
This would be a huge asset to the community!
I'll be contacting you ingame about hosting. 
--
Capital Ship Build Info |
Rathstern Executus
|
Posted - 2006.08.28 02:22:00 -
[10]
The cost of advanced materials is affected a bit by the fuel cost. Crystalline carbonide requires a minimum of a large tower, and a small tower. Fuel costs for that will be about 320k per hour, placing the breakeven cost at 32/unit.
The fuel cost is why certain moon minerals fall under "worthless", as you cannot make a profit mining them alone.
|
TitusFlamininus
Ars Caelestis
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.08.28 15:41:00 -
[11]
Edited by: TitusFlamininus on 28/08/2006 15:42:43
Firstly, AWSOME TOOL! Thanks a lot!
Secondly:
Originally by: Rathstern Executus
The cost of advanced materials is affected a bit by the fuel cost. Crystalline carbonide requires a minimum of a large tower, and a small tower. Fuel costs for that will be about 320k per hour, placing the breakeven cost at 32/unit.
Yeah, that is one part of the indirect costs. POS consumables do cost a lot and are a major cost driver for advanced materials.
Another hidden cost driver is simply hauling. The amounts of hauling necessary for POS consumables and POS products is nothing else but staggering. The amount of time sunk into hauling and operating a POS is huge. It very quickly develops into pure tedium and a second job.
|
West Allis
Minmatar
Cornerstone Unlimited
|
Posted - 2006.08.30 19:41:00 -
[12]
Looks wonderful.
I do have a suggestion. The grouping of the minerals into arbitrary groups like "worthless", "cheap", etc. isn't particularly useful and over time would only lead to confusion. It would be better to not group them at all. The value judgements you've made for these groups are based on current price, which will change over time.
For example, Technetium is "expensive" mostly because the regions (North part of the map) where it is most common are undergoing a lot of warefare. As a result, supply to empire space is sparse, making the value high. If that region calms, the price of Technetium will fall as supply increases. Would you then change it's group? As far as the rarity of technetium moons, it's approximately the same as Ceasium - which you have listed as a "mediocre" material.
If you must group them, then they should probably be grouped by rarity of moons containing them, rather than by price. That grouping looks like this:
You may want more descriptive titles than I used, such as Gases, Abundant, Common, Rare, Very Rare.
I wrote something a while back in an attempt to help explain reactions and the supply & demand forces on moon minerals. It can be found here.
The price index will be nice, but the only place I find all the moon materials traded in any considerable volume is Jita. If you wanted a "deal", then you would go to the empire space nearest where that mineral is produced. For example, Platinum is cheaper "down south" than it is in Jita - because "down south" is where you find more Platinum moons. But there isn't really anywhere "down south" that I find *all* the minerals traded at meaningful volumes.
I look forward to seeing your finished work!
|
Hoshi Takasu
Caldari
Takasu Trading International
|
Posted - 2006.08.30 22:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: West Allis
I do have a suggestion. The grouping of the minerals into arbitrary groups like "worthless", "cheap", etc. isn't particularly useful and over time would only lead to confusion. It would be better to not group them at all. The value judgements you've made for these groups are based on current price, which will change over time.
Well currently the minerals are sorted by their value this week and grouped into 5 groups of 4 for easy reading. Because of this the term gasses or what rarity level a group has wouldnt apply.
This system will be slightly modified in the next version where minerals are no longer placed in 5 groups of 4 but instead are grouped by their value. Then each group will be based on their value. Ie; 'No/Low Profit Minerals', 'Okay Profit Minerals', etc.
Originally by: West Allis
The price index will be nice, but the only place I find all the moon materials traded in any considerable volume is Jita. If you wanted a "deal", then you would go to the empire space nearest where that mineral is produced. For example, Platinum is cheaper "down south" than it is in Jita - because "down south" is where you find more Platinum moons. But there isn't really anywhere "down south" that I find *all* the minerals traded at meaningful volumes.
I notoiced this was well and its quite unfortunate. Depending on where you live Jita can be quite far away. I have been looking at some plans of trying to ship cheap minerals from Jita to say Rens and try and sell them at a small profit there in the hopes kick starting the moon mineral market there and possibly attract produces in that direction as well. This however requires quite a large fund to work with so its reserved for the future
- = - = - = -
|
Tashia Rizti
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 18:27:00 -
[14]
This is very interesting and useful. What times are you on eve for contact about hosting (if your still looking?)
|
West Allis
Minmatar
Cornerstone Unlimited
|
Posted - 2006.08.31 21:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Hoshi Takasu
Well currently the minerals are sorted by their value this week and grouped into 5 groups of 4 for easy reading. Because of this the term gasses or what rarity level a group has wouldnt apply.
I understand. You want to group the minerals because they look better this way. It's intended as a cosmetic thing instead as additional information.
Originally by: Hoshi Takasu
This system will be slightly modified in the next version where minerals are no longer placed in 5 groups of 4 but instead are grouped by their value. Then each group will be based on their value. Ie; 'No/Low Profit Minerals', 'Okay Profit Minerals', etc.
This is still arbitrary. The amount of profit you get varies greatly depending on your costs. For example, a small POS running only 2 harvesters and silos using little power and CPU (therefore little Heavy water and Liquid Ozone) can be very cost effective - making even inexpensive materials profitable. Further, what is profitable and how profitable would also be affect by the price of fuels - which fluctuates.
And you are going to dynamically regroup the items every week so that they move from group to group as the price changes relative to similarly priced materials? Take a look at the current chart... you have Neodymium as a "decent profit" item at 2400 pu, but you have Mercury as "excellent profit" though it's at 2100 pu. Likewise you have Tungsten and and Evaporite deposits as "Low profit", though these are both cheaper than Cobolt which you have as "No Profit".
If you do group dynamically, I wouldn't expect the price breaks to naturally fall at every 5th item. For example, Titanium is priced at 600 pu; Cadmium is 1150 pu; and Scandium is 1400 pu;. Do you feel that Cadmium belongs in the group with Titatium and not Scandium? It is if you arbitrary assign it based groupings of 4 or 5 in order of increasing price.
I still suggest sticking to unchanging "facts" as labels, not dynamically regrouping based on changing prices. Group them alphabetially, by rarity, by atomic number... by anything that doesn't change on weekly or situational basis.
|
hinch
Gallente
The Legion.
|
Posted - 2006.09.04 12:54:00 -
[16]
if you still need hosting give me a shout char name is hinch i should be able to sort some out for you nps
|
Kaell Meynn
|
Posted - 2006.09.05 10:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: West Allis
I do have a suggestion. The grouping of the minerals into arbitrary groups like "worthless", "cheap", etc. isn't particularly useful and over time would only lead to confusion. It would be better to not group them at all. The value judgements you've made for these groups are based on current price, which will change over time.
I agree here. It is very nice but I don't like the groupings. Either group by rarity, or don't group at all. We can see the prices ourselves. Having minerals jump categories when people start mining the expensive semi-rares (technet), would be strange having it jump categories.
|
Technosites
Beagle Corp
|
Posted - 2006.09.05 18:47:00 -
[18]
Price depends a lot on region, see my article here: http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=7&page=3
This project will help the community a lot though, good luck :)
Technosites
-------------------------------------
"We would change the world, but God wouldn't give us the source code."
[url="http://www.eve-tribune.com |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |