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[REBALANCE] Nestor.... again

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Vulfen Snuff Box Snuffed Out 152	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:51:20 - [1] - Quote So once again CCP has broken the Nestor, with carriers now able to jump gates who in their right mind would choose to take a Nestor as a heavy logistics ship? No one.... The Nestor is once again in need of a re balance because of other ships simply doing it better at all times. CCP please revisit the nestor and try this time to do a job that isn't going to break in 6 weeks time. Feel free everyone to post your ideas on what you think the nestor should be re balanced with in this thread.
Rowells Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans 1638	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:54:04 - [2] - Quote was it ever fixed?
Antillie Sa'Kan Forging Industries Silent Infinity 741	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:04:59 - [3] - Quote Rowells wrote: was it ever fixed? Not really. The Nestor is a solution looking for a problem.
Vulfen Snuff Box Snuffed Out 152	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:12:07 - [4] - Quote Rowells wrote: was it ever fixed? It had one use we found after the last rebalance... heavy logi However they were still not a viable replacement for Logi ships on the big engagments
Zmikund Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:25:31 - [5] - Quote Another 0.0 tears about nestor, can u understand nestor was made for wormholers? not for your "im center of everything" gameplay ...
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 284	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:27:39 - [6] - Quote Zmikund wrote: Another 0.0 tears about nestor, can u understand nestor was made for wormholers? not for your "im center of everything" gameplay ... They're actually around the edges. HTH. Travelling at the speed of love.
Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1082	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:35:06 - [7] - Quote As Zmikund said, it's useful in wormholes. I'm more concerned about the Barghest. The point range bonuses are useful, but the general speediness and lack of tank aren't that useful. BSes need huge tank, pretty simple. TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us My ship fits
Zmikund Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2014.11.10 19:11:13 - [8] - Quote Warde Guildencrantz wrote: As Zmikund said, it's useful in wormholes. I'm more concerned about the Barghest. The point range bonuses are useful, but the general speediness and lack of tank aren't that useful. BSes need huge tank, pretty simple. Barghes has bad slot layout, it is supposted to be shield ship but i has same mid/low slot layout as armor nestor ... not to mention that 6 low slots on shield missile boat is pretty much big fail ...
Arthur Aihaken X A X 3908	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:32:15 - [9] - Quote Zmikund wrote: Barghest has bad slot layout, it is supposted to be shield ship but i has same mid/low slot layout as armor nestor ... not to mention that 6 low slots on shield missile boat is pretty much big fail ... The 6 lows on the Barghest are actually fine; it's the lack of overall damage and application that sucks. I'd actually prefer a 7H-5M-8L layout, 6 launchers @ 50% damage and some kind of damage application bonus - like a fixed 20% explosion radius as a role bonus. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1083	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:36:00 - [10] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Zmikund wrote: Barghest has bad slot layout, it is supposted to be shield ship but i has same mid/low slot layout as armor nestor ... not to mention that 6 low slots on shield missile boat is pretty much big fail ... The 6 lows on the Barghest are actually fine; it's the lack of overall damage and application that sucks. I'd actually prefer a 7H-5M-8L layout, 6 launchers @ 50% damage and some kind of damage application bonus - like a fixed 20% explosion radius as a role bonus. I'd prefer a torp balance pass, as of now cruises are almost always better. TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us My ship fits
Arthur Aihaken X A X 3908	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:46:10 - [11] - Quote Warde Guildencrantz wrote: I'd prefer a torp balance pass, as of now cruises are almost always better. You won't get any argument from me. Truthfully, all they need to do is switch the explosion velocity radius from cruise missiles to torpedoes. And we need a low-slot missile damage enhancer module. The Nestor isGÇª still beyond hope. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
craidie Blackwater USA Academy Mordus Angels 13	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:56:42 - [12] - Quote Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships?
Vulfen Snuff Box Snuffed Out 152	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:57:24 - [13] - Quote Zmikund wrote: Another 0.0 tears about nestor, can u understand nestor was made for wormholers? not for your "im center of everything" gameplay ... Cant remember the last time i was in 0.0 ....
Arthur Aihaken X A X 3908	Posted - 2014.11.10 21:06:29 - [14] - Quote craidie wrote: Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships? Not a bad idea, actually. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 446	Posted - 2014.11.10 21:53:50 - [15] - Quote Warde Guildencrantz wrote: As Zmikund said, it's useful in wormholes. I'm more concerned about the Barghest. The point range bonuses are useful, but the general speediness and lack of tank aren't that useful. BSes need huge tank, pretty simple. You should try that boat out on SiSi, she is a really fast boat and if you fly her like a nano-pest, you can do cool things from far away. Oh and the speed IS the tank. signature
Vulfen Snuff Box Snuffed Out 152	Posted - 2014.11.11 09:04:39 - [16] - Quote craidie wrote: Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships? Decent enough idea, however this would mean giving it a cov ops cloak ability as well, as only ships that can use the cov ops cloak can go through the bridge. Personally i would like to see it get the jump drive ability, but not be able to light bridges or get a bonus to any cloak. I think it's a more than fair change if that was the only thing it received. as it would then make a viable replacement for the now shorter range carriers as logistics to Black Ops fleets, which currently rely on very short range RRs. Furthermore i think that considering that it has the ability to refit ships from, which is still it's best quality then it may open other doors for people.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3077	Posted - 2014.11.11 09:54:46 - [17] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: [quote=Warde Guildencrantz]And we need a low-slot missile damage enhancer module. I'll take "Ballistic Control Units" for 600, Alex. If you're going to say "but what about application", I'll point you to TPs. Beyond that .. I don't think you want to open the Pandora's Box of "make missiles have the same modules turrets do".
Vulfen Snuff Box Snuffed Out 152	Posted - 2014.11.11 09:58:45 - [18] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Arthur Aihaken wrote: [quote=Warde Guildencrantz]And we need a low-slot missile damage enhancer module. I'll take "Ballistic Control Units" for 600, Alex. If you're going to say "but what about application", I'll point you to TPs. Beyond that .. I don't think you want to open the Pandora's Box of "make missiles have the same modules turrets do". They still have rigs that can help application too. Just like shield and armour have variants (tanking module options) so should the different weapon platforms i.e drones, turrets and missiles.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3077	Posted - 2014.11.11 10:02:54 - [19] - Quote Vulfen wrote: Just like shield and armour have variants (tanking module options) so should the different weapon platforms i.e drones, turrets and missiles. The point I was making is that if we start giving missiles things like tracking enhancers and tracking computers and all the other things that turrets have and missiles don't, then we're going to see missiles getting modules aimed specifically at disrupting them as well, which I don't think will go over well for continuing to use missiles.
Vulfen Snuff Box Snuffed Out 152	Posted - 2014.11.11 10:14:04 - [20] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Vulfen wrote: Just like shield and armour have variants (tanking module options) so should the different weapon platforms i.e drones, turrets and missiles. The point I was making is that if we start giving missiles things like tracking enhancers and tracking computers and all the other things that turrets have and missiles don't, then we're going to see missiles getting modules aimed specifically at disrupting them as well, which I don't think will go over well for continuing to use missiles. I agree. Id rather see them just left alone in that sense
craidie Blackwater USA Academy Mordus Angels 14	Posted - 2014.11.11 11:43:01 - [21] - Quote Vulfen wrote: craidie wrote: Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships? Decent enough idea, however this would mean giving it a cov ops cloak ability as well, as only ships that can use the cov ops cloak can go through the bridge. Personally i would like to see it get the jump drive ability, but not be able to light bridges or get a bonus to any cloak. I think it's a more than fair change if that was the only thing it received. as it would then make a viable replacement for the now shorter range carriers as logistics to Black Ops fleets, which currently rely on very short range RRs. Furthermore i think that considering that it has the ability to refit ships from, which is still it's best quality then it may open other doors for people. No, if they give a covops cloak to a battleship, it should be the black ops... i'm just suggesting that they could be bridged through BO bridges. The nestor has ridiculously low mass for a battleship and as such would take less fuel than bridging 2 recons. Currently there's only one logistics ship for black ops gangs, and that's an AT ship and shield logi, as such the nestor would fill a role no other ship can.
Vulfen Snuff Box Snuffed Out 152	Posted - 2014.11.11 11:55:06 - [22] - Quote craidie wrote: Vulfen wrote: craidie wrote: Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships? Decent enough idea, however this would mean giving it a cov ops cloak ability as well, as only ships that can use the cov ops cloak can go through the bridge. Personally i would like to see it get the jump drive ability, but not be able to light bridges or get a bonus to any cloak. I think it's a more than fair change if that was the only thing it received. as it would then make a viable replacement for the now shorter range carriers as logistics to Black Ops fleets, which currently rely on very short range RRs. Furthermore i think that considering that it has the ability to refit ships from, which is still it's best quality then it may open other doors for people. No, if they give a covops cloak to a battleship, it should be the black ops... i'm just suggesting that they could be bridged through BO bridges. The nestor has ridiculously low mass for a battleship and as such would take less fuel than bridging 2 recons. Currently there's only one logistics ship for black ops gangs, and that's an AT ship and shield logi, as such the nestor would fill a role no other ship can. Yes i also think it should not have the cov ops cloak option. but in order to apply your idea it would have to have that trait otherwise it would be completely out of line with other ships that can use the cov ops bridge
Rek Seven Probe Patrol 1959	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:03:44 - [23] - Quote Remove turret slots add covert ops cloak. Done! +1
Komodo Askold No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad 202	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:25:17 - [24] - Quote Zmikund wrote: Another 0.0 tears about nestor, can u understand nestor was made for wormholers? not for your "im center of everything" gameplay ... Not empty quoting. You can't always have a carrier in W-space, but you can have a Nestor in any class thanks to its really low mass. Plus it's more mobile and less skill intensive.
Spugg Galdon APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front 565	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:33:39 - [25] - Quote craidie wrote: Currently there's only one logistics ship for black ops gangs, and that's an AT ship and shield logi, as such the nestor would fill a role no other ship can. There's also cloaky logi Tech 3's Really, the Nestor needs to return to the drawing board. It doesn't fit in with the SoE line up. Even with the bonkers long list of bonuses it has. To that end I would suggest moving into a new role like this: Scrap the logistics role of the Nestor all together. Make it simply a BS with a SMA and a BLOPs style set of bonuses to cloaking (not fully covert). Consider giving the ship a covert jump drive and the ability to fit covert jump portal generator so the ship can actually support it's smaller ship classes by bridging them. This will mean giving the Astero and Stratios the ability to fit covert cyno generators (perhaps just the Astero). Next, look at remote rep modules themselves. They're pretty much gimped on anything without a range bonus to them so I think a good idea would be to double the range of all remote rep modules and half the range bonuses on logi ships. This makes remote rep ships that aren't logi feasable again (I miss those RR BS battles). It also makes strategic cruiser logi fits feasable without making them stupid. Then create an entirely new ship which is a Battlecruiser. This ship will be the support ship. It will have the logistics bonuses the current Nestor has and will be able to fit links. Why a battle cruiser? a few reasons... mobility, covert cloak, scan resolution, it's easier to balance. The new Battlecruiser: Eurydice GÇó Amarr BC skill bonuses: +4% to all armour resists per level Gallente BC skill: +10% drone damage and HP per level Role bonuses: 50% bonus to remote armor repairer amount 100% bonus to remote armor repairer range 50% bonus to medium energy turret optimal range Can fit warfare links GÇó Slot layout: 7 H, 5 M, 5 L, 5 turrets, 0 launchers GÇó Fittings: 1495 PWG, 410 CPU GÇó Defense (shields / shield recharge time (s) / armor / hull) : 4500 / 1800s / 7500 / 6750 GÇó Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 3125 / 822 s / 3.8 GÇó Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 150 / 0.69 / 13000000 / 10.2 s GÇó Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 / 400 GÇó Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 260 / 7 GÇó Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric GÇó Signature radius: 260 It will only have the same offensive capabilities of the Stratios but it will be a little tankier and slower so giving it a Cov Ops cloak won't be that big of a deal. Then we have ships with real purpose: Astero: Combat Scout Stratios: Combat Exploration Eurydice (Battlecruiser): Combat Support Nestor: Combat Mothership - Battleship
Tabyll Altol Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two 42	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:33:50 - [26] - Quote Vulfen wrote: So once again CCP has broken the Nestor, with carriers now able to jump gates who in their right mind would choose to take a Nestor as a heavy logistics ship? No one.... The Nestor is once again in need of a re balance because of other ships simply doing it better at all times. CCP please revisit the nestor and try this time to do a job that isn't going to break in 6 weeks time. Feel free everyone to post your ideas on what you think the nestor should be re balanced with in this thread. Please make a thread with an idea. Not call others to make the work 4 you. Vote 4 close --> missing idea
Vulfen Snuff Box Snuffed Out 152	Posted - 2014.11.11 13:09:21 - [27] - Quote Tabyll Altol wrote: Vulfen wrote: So once again CCP has broken the Nestor, with carriers now able to jump gates who in their right mind would choose to take a Nestor as a heavy logistics ship? No one.... The Nestor is once again in need of a re balance because of other ships simply doing it better at all times. CCP please revisit the nestor and try this time to do a job that isn't going to break in 6 weeks time. Feel free everyone to post your ideas on what you think the nestor should be re balanced with in this thread. Please make a thread with an idea. Not call others to make the work 4 you. Vote 4 close --> missing idea Try reading the entire thread. Also my idea/recommendation is CCP should fix the ship, and not keep rebalancing it every 3 months because something else they have done broke it / made it pathetic.
Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1087	Posted - 2014.11.11 18:12:47 - [28] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Warde Guildencrantz wrote: As Zmikund said, it's useful in wormholes. I'm more concerned about the Barghest. The point range bonuses are useful, but the general speediness and lack of tank aren't that useful. BSes need huge tank, pretty simple. You should try that boat out on SiSi, she is a really fast boat and if you fly her like a nano-pest, you can do cool things from far away. Oh and the speed IS the tank. Yeah, but I could do it better in an orthrus. Or any kiting cruiser. I'm not going to fly something that is half-fast. TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us My ship fits
Hopelesshobo Tactical Nuclear Penguin's 349	Posted - 2014.11.11 18:44:04 - [29] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Vulfen wrote: Just like shield and armour have variants (tanking module options) so should the different weapon platforms i.e drones, turrets and missiles. The point I was making is that if we start giving missiles things like tracking enhancers and tracking computers and all the other things that turrets have and missiles don't, then we're going to see missiles getting modules aimed specifically at disrupting them as well, which I don't think will go over well for continuing to use missiles. My issue with missiles is that it takes more SP to max them out when you compare them to gunnery skills. From there, the gunnery support skills support 3 different racial weapons. This is while the support skills for missiles, only support missiles, and take longer to train. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Rayzilla Zaraki Tandokuno 270	Posted - 2014.11.11 19:37:16 - [30] - Quote I'd like to see the Nestor moved out of the battleship class altogether and moved in line with the Orca so that is does for exploration what the Orca does for mining. Drop weapon hardpoints and bonuses. Drop combat drone bonuses in favor of repair and salvage drone bonuses. Keep RR bonuses. Keep exploration bonuses (or drop hacking/archeology bonuses and up scanning). Increase SMA to accommodate 2 cruisers and maybe a frigate. 10000 m3 fleet hangar. Uses new exploration-related gang links. Fiddle with the other stats as needed. Optional: jump drive with bridge capabilities (covops, of course). This would accommodate both the solo and small gang explorers nicely. Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 447	Posted - 2014.11.11 22:32:17 - [31] - Quote Rayzilla Zaraki wrote: I'd like to see the Nestor moved out of the battleship class altogether and moved in line with the Orca so that is does for exploration what the Orca does for mining. Drop weapon hardpoints and bonuses. Drop combat drone bonuses in favor of repair and salvage drone bonuses. Keep RR bonuses. Keep exploration bonuses (or drop hacking/archeology bonuses and up scanning). Increase SMA to accommodate 2 cruisers and maybe a frigate. 10000 m3 fleet hangar. Uses new exploration-related gang links. Fiddle with the other stats as needed. Optional: jump drive with bridge capabilities (covops, of course). This would accommodate both the solo and small gang explorers nicely. So in other words a battleship from the SOE faction that could carry the smaller SOE ships around? And why instead of a cov ops cloak, they give the Nestor an "improved tech2 cloak" mobility bonus like +125% base speed per Gallente battleship skll level when cloaked? signature
Marcus Tedric Tedric Enterprises The Star League 11	Posted - 2014.11.11 23:32:13 - [32] - Quote I've posted it before here not long ago...... Other tweaks might be useful - but just give it a Fuel Bay and BLOPS-ability. Then it fits the SOE-line (bridging the other two).
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1677	Posted - 2014.11.11 23:38:38 - [33] - Quote Vulfen wrote: craidie wrote: Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships? Decent enough idea, however this would mean giving it a cov ops cloak ability as well, as only ships that can use the cov ops cloak can go through the bridge. Personally i would like to see it get the jump drive ability, but not be able to light bridges or get a bonus to any cloak. I think it's a more than fair change if that was the only thing it received. as it would then make a viable replacement for the now shorter range carriers as logistics to Black Ops fleets, which currently rely on very short range RRs. Furthermore i think that considering that it has the ability to refit ships from, which is still it's best quality then it may open other doors for people. This is just something people are terrified of for no real reason. A Cov cloak would not break a BS since they still have the targeting delay and then they have BS level scan res to try and lock something also. All it would do would improve the roaming ability by warping cloaked. Same as the Black Ops should get the Cov Cloak. It's just something that makes sense but that people are terrified of with having never seen it.
Rayzilla Zaraki Tandokuno 270	Posted - 2014.11.12 13:00:44 - [34] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Rayzilla Zaraki wrote: I'd like to see the Nestor moved out of the battleship class altogether and moved in line with the Orca so that is does for exploration what the Orca does for mining. Drop weapon hardpoints and bonuses. Drop combat drone bonuses in favor of repair and salvage drone bonuses. Keep RR bonuses. Keep exploration bonuses (or drop hacking/archeology bonuses and up scanning). Increase SMA to accommodate 2 cruisers and maybe a frigate. 10000 m3 fleet hangar. Uses new exploration-related gang links. Fiddle with the other stats as needed. Optional: jump drive with bridge capabilities (covops, of course). This would accommodate both the solo and small gang explorers nicely. So in other words a battleship from the SOE faction that could carry the smaller SOE ships around? And why instead of a cov ops cloak, they give the Nestor an "improved tech2 cloak" mobility bonus like +125% base speed per Gallente battleship skll level when cloaked? Except without "battle" in the name. Drop combat bonuses and even turret hardpoints. Explo-Orca. Explorca! Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1358	Posted - 2014.11.12 13:34:10 - [35] - Quote The nestor is unfortunately not as successful as hoped, as it lacks a reason for existing, low mass without covert ops cloak? Great for not collapsing wormholes too easily, no cloak so no one will take it out of their home system. Logistics bonus and ship hangar? As expensive as a carrier and less effective. Combat ship? Others do it better. It is just not special, and does nothing special. So, what now? We are getting new wormhole space. What is really really useful in wormhole space and visible from anywhere idscan range like a big flag? A Pos and we have no personal pos. Make the nestor anchor into a small pos mode,weapons disabled, built in refitting and storage just give it a force field when anchored like a small pos and "we have a winner" [u]_There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE _[/u]
Arthur Aihaken X A X 3917	Posted - 2014.11.12 14:40:33 - [36] - Quote A 1,000m3 Fleet Maintenance bay would go a long way towards improving versatility. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken X A X 3917	Posted - 2014.11.12 14:42:35 - [37] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: If you're going to say "but what about application", I'll point you to TPs. Beyond that .. I don't think you want to open the Pandora's Box of "make missiles have the same modules turrets do". I did mean application, but yes - I do realize it's toying with Pandora's Box... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Rayzilla Zaraki Tandokuno 270	Posted - 2014.11.12 14:53:20 - [38] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: The nestor is unfortunately not as successful as hoped, as it lacks a reason for existing, low mass without covert ops cloak? Great for not collapsing wormholes too easily, no cloak so no one will take it out of their home system. Logistics bonus and ship hangar? As expensive as a carrier and less effective. Combat ship? Others do it better. It is just not special, and does nothing special. Just lots of nothing special....... So, what now? We are getting new wormhole space. What is really really useful in wormhole space and visible from anywhere in Dscan range like a big flag? A Pos and we have no personal pos. Make the nestor anchor into a small pos mode,weapons disabled, built in refitting and some ship storage just give it a force field when anchored like a small pos and "we have a winner" Ps it even looks like a pos if vertical. I can see it tipping forward to vertical to go into POS mode. Your idea makes sense, but it seems like it would be OP when used in fleets. Nevertheless, let it cloak, scan, refit and repair in POS mode and I'll sign up right now. Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
Lloyd Roses Blue-Fire 743	Posted - 2014.11.12 14:54:56 - [39] - Quote So Nestor is used as a very special guardian that can drop drones too, and usually fed cap by a guardian (with or without talismans). So it got that niche, would love to see more tinkering with those capabilities to make the Nestor generally worthwile in those situations instead of the current state of requiring remote sebos/eccm and remote cap to that extent to make it viable. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Fin Diritez Universal Defense Initiative 0	Posted - 2014.12.01 01:50:01 - [40] - Quote covert jump drive covert jump portal generator 40.000m3 fighterbay (just to get some ppl thinking)
Noxisia Arkana Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire 407	Posted - 2014.12.01 02:48:55 - [41] - Quote Rowells wrote: was it ever fixed? Agree, for it's price - it doesn't make sense. It's a niche RR ship... that has a ****** niche
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 5359	Posted - 2014.12.01 03:02:44 - [42] - Quote I'd give it a role bonus to remove the targeting penalties for fitting a standard cloaking device, around 5k corp hangar and 20k-40k ship hangar. Remove the hacking bonuses as those wouldn't fit the role as a deep space support vessel. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2011	Posted - 2014.12.01 03:14:32 - [43] - Quote The Nestor is a pirate faction logistics battleship. It isn't an ISK-efficient way to get the job done, and it isn't supposed to be. The only reason people consider it to have its own niche is because there aren't any other logistics battleships. If CCP released just one tech-1 logistics battleship, they would find themselves extremely useful as a heavy logistics tool that is much more mobile than a carrier while also being much cheaper. The Nestor is much more mobile than a carrier without being much cheaper. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 301	Posted - 2014.12.01 06:03:36 - [44] - Quote What it really needs is a cap battery strapped in permanently, and a slightly better agility, so that the increased mass of a prop mod doesn't absolutely destroy the things performance. Making battleships worth the warp Tech 3 battleships. Moar battleships
Saisin State War Academy Caldari State 198	Posted - 2014.12.01 10:15:02 - [45] - Quote +1 for the making it a black ops logi ship "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope...
Komodo Askold No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad 222	Posted - 2014.12.01 13:31:56 - [46] - Quote People seem to still forget, or not realise, that the Nestor is a W-Space ship. Look at its mass; it's the only battleship that can enter C1 systems through the most usual WH's. Look at its Ship Maintenance Bay, meant for in-space reffiting of friendlies. Look at its RR bonuses, made for fast repairs, useful for any nomadic/invading fleet. For a ship that flies in W-Space, the fact that capital ships can use stargates and the lack of a role bonus to the use of cynos is irrelevant. Can a carrier enter all W-Space systems so easily, and be so mobile, while requiring so many less skills? I think not. Don't try to make it fulfill a role it's not meant for; it ends badly, no matter which ship it is. The Nestor is fine (unless you want to discuss PW, CPU, module slots...).
Kaerakh Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling 489	Posted - 2014.12.01 14:18:56 - [47] - Quote Kaerakh wrote: James Baboli wrote: Kaerakh wrote: James Baboli wrote: Nestor: Keep hearing it is a wormhole thing and in use there, and in wormholes does quite well. Need more feedback about how it is used, and see if a way to keep its allegeded W-space use intact while making it useful somehow in K-space. My corporation(and previous iterations where relevant) thinks the Nestor is a hilarious waste of isk. In my opinion it's a worthless hull. I appreciate the sentiment, and share it, but I keep hearing people say they are "vital" in wormhole space and would like to hear this. Thus the alleged uses and so on above. Well basically all of it's roles and bonuses can be provided for in cheaper platforms that are also more effective. 10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints, Dominix does the exact same thing with better bonuses and a fraction of the price tag and half the training. 4% armor resist bonus: Admittedly nice, but with 6 low slots you either limit your dps or tank there by nullifying one or the other bonus. An Ishtar would achieve the same effect without the sig radius or speed penalty without even touching a tank bonus. From a DPS perspective it can be loaded out to provide below average DPS and below average tank from a battleship perspective. Then from a logi perspective is shines considerably brighter, but still falls incredibly short. For half the price tag, three times the range, a cap transfer range bonus, a fraction of the sig radius, and better mobility, you can have two guardians do the exact same thing better. Then from an exploration perspective, a covert ops frigate does the exact same thing, can cloak, more than quadruple the maneuverability, a smaller destiny sphere(detection purposes), a fraction of a fraction of the price tag, and can fit small rigs which are far cheaper to interchange. Finally, a T3 hull can do all of the above for half the price and with considerably higher survivability. The Nestor is completely over shadowed and only liked by sentimental bears that don't make any pvp considerations. I really have nothing new to say on the subject that I haven't stated previously. Schrodinger's Hot Dropper The Fate of Forum Alts
Tchulen Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult 850	Posted - 2014.12.01 15:05:09 - [48] - Quote Kaerakh wrote: Finally, a T3 hull can do all of the above for half the price and with considerably higher survivability. The Nestor is completely over shadowed and only liked by sentimental bears that don't make any pvp considerations. You miss the point where the T3 hull can rep significantly less and at 1/3 the range making it basically useless (which is why no one uses it). Your comparison falls flat on it's face, I'm afraid. And what "bears" are using it for non-pvp related things? As you've said, for every combat related purpose there is a ship that outstrips it for massively less cost and risk that does the job better. It seems to me that the only people that actually use this ship are likely to be using it in pvp in wormholes, where it was designed to be used. Kaerakh wrote: I really have nothing new to say on the subject that I haven't stated previously. One could question why you posted in that case. Just repeating the same thing over again doesn't alter whether it's true or not. You still seem to be completely ignoring the fact that this ship is meant for wormhole use primarily which, it seems, it's already useful for. If all those other examples are better in your opinion, what's the problem? Why don't you just use them rather than try to alter a ship which people actually use just so it fits your personal perspective of what you'd like? That seems somewhat selfish, really.
Kaerakh Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling 489	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:56:45 - [49] - Quote Tchulen wrote: You miss the point where the T3 hull can rep significantly less and at 1/3 the range making it basically useless (which is why no one uses it). Your comparison falls flat on it's face, I'm afraid. Useless from a blob warrior perspective. Tchulen wrote: And what "bears" are using it for non-pvp related things? As you've said, for every combat related purpose there is a ship that outstrips it for massively less cost and risk that does the job better. It seems to me that the only people that actually use this ship are likely to be using it in pvp in wormholes, where it was designed to be used. As a wormhole player I can safely say that this abomination is useless for the previously stated reasons. Tchulen wrote: One could question why you posted in that case. Just repeating the same thing over again doesn't alter whether it's true or not. Because it's the same discussion again and the position of the Nestor has not altered in current gameplay since those discussions. Tchulen wrote: You still seem to be completely ignoring the fact that this ship is meant for wormhole use primarily which, it seems, it's already useful for. I live in a wormhole, and don't fight in blobs, unlike you. Tchulen wrote: If all those other examples are better in your opinion, what's the problem? Why don't you just use them rather than try to alter a ship which people actually use just so it fits your personal perspective of what you'd like? That seems somewhat selfish, really. That probably sounded better in your head. Schrodinger's Hot Dropper The Fate of Forum Alts
Mario Putzo Welping and Dunking. 960	Posted - 2014.12.01 18:10:17 - [50] - Quote I post this in every Nestor thread! I was thinking it would be interesting if it could bridge, but not actually jump itself (no jump drive) It would have to be bridged itself by another black ops battleship. This may require a reduction in mass to facilitate though (with a respective reduction in baseline HP). I kinda picture a ship that was respectively battlecruiser size, but required Battleship skills with no combat capability (gives up drone bay for its fuel bay). I was thinking maybe 5-10K more baseline HP than the Guards/Oni's. But retaining the resists. Something like Amarr BS bonus 4% to Resists Gallente bonus 15% to Remote Rep Activation Role Bonus 300% to Range of Cap Trans and Armor Reps 125% to Speed when using cloaking devices No targeting delay 60% reduction in Cap Trans activation. Can fit Black Ops Jump Portal Generators. Battle Cruiser size, speed, tank. mass (BC size + the reduction SOE get) Black Ops Cargo/Fuel Bay * No drone bay, Has no Jump Drive. 100% pure black ops logistics.
Akemon Numon Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 3	Posted - 2014.12.01 18:32:35 - [51] - Quote Nestor Sucks please fix this mess.
Tchulen Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult 850	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:01:36 - [52] - Quote Kaerakh wrote: Useless from a blob warrior perspective. Nope, from pretty much anyone's perspective. Kaerakh wrote: As a wormhole player I can safely say that this abomination is useless for the previously stated reasons. Other than the fact that there are people using them in WHs. Kaerakh wrote: Because it's the same discussion again and the position of the Nestor has not altered in current gameplay since those discussions. No, you posted the same thing twice in the same thread. That's what I'm questioning. Kaerakh wrote: I live in a wormhole, and don't fight in blobs, unlike you. Unlike this char. I also live in WHs with other characters. Just looking up the char that someone posts on doesn't really give you crap about what that person (person, not character) actually does or understands about EVE. Kaerakh wrote: That probably sounded better in your head. Nope. It's a perfectly decent question which you've failed to answer. Perhaps if you tried to use the ship as it's intended rather than try to bend it to a purpose it isn't you might have more luck with it but then I guess one can say that about pretty much anything in EVE. Good luck getting it changed. I agree that it's not perfect but I would say the issue here is 50:50; 50% the ship needs some love and 50% you need to learn to think. Fly stupid ;)
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 42	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:12:48 - [53] - Quote When will CCP wake up and realize that CCP Rise does a very poor job. He destroyed a playstyle on the Rattlesnake and flipped the ship on its head from what it was before and for no good reason whatsoever.
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1384	Posted - 2014.12.03 17:25:57 - [54] - Quote NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote: When will CCP wake up and realize that CCP Rise does a very poor job. He destroyed a playstyle on the Rattlesnake and flipped the ship on its head from what it was before and for no good reason whatsoever. Hi Rod!
Neuron Stew Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 2	Posted - 2014.12.03 17:27:05 - [55] - Quote The problem is battleships in general are lacking.
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 328	Posted - 2014.12.03 17:29:12 - [56] - Quote Neuron Stew wrote: The problem is battleships in general are lacking. This is a big part of the issue. If you feel like helping, I have a thread in my sig I'd love feedback on. Making battleships worth the warp Tech 3 battleships. Moar battleships
Ersahi Kir Froosh INC. SpaceMonkey's Alliance 395	Posted - 2014.12.03 18:22:39 - [57] - Quote I see the nestor like I view a sports car with a tow hitch on it. Technically utility was added. Realistically, they missed the mark.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 6685	Posted - 2014.12.03 23:25:50 - [58] - Quote Ersahi Kir wrote: I see the nestor like I view a sports car with a tow hitch on it. Technically utility was added. Realistically, they missed the mark. I think you are lacking creativity. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
M1k3y Koontz Thorn Project Surely You're Joking 618	Posted - 2014.12.04 00:20:25 - [59] - Quote The Nestor, living proof that players shouldn't ask CCP to add new ships without specifying a role. Astero and Stratios are cool. Nestor was a lousy attempt to round out the bunch, since making it cov ops would be hilariously OP. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 505	Posted - 2014.12.04 00:27:58 - [60] - Quote James Baboli wrote: What it really needs is a cap battery strapped in permanently, and a slightly better agility, so that the increased mass of a prop mod doesn't absolutely destroy the things performance. Give it a hybrid damage bonus instead of the laser range bonus and a bonus for propulsion mods. signature
Arthur Aihaken X A X 3985	Posted - 2014.12.04 03:11:40 - [61] - Quote "The Nestor being called the GÇÿworst ship in the gameGÇÖ has become somewhat of a running joke at CCP. The Nestor, as I pointed out in my keynote presentation is actually getting more usage than the Bhaalgorn and has developed its own niche." -- CCP Rise Great - can we fix the Bhaalgorn now? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1423	Posted - 2014.12.04 12:20:45 - [62] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: "The Nestor being called the GÇÿworst ship in the gameGÇÖ has become somewhat of a running joke at CCP. The Nestor, as I pointed out in my keynote presentation is actually getting more usage than the Bhaalgorn and has developed its own niche." -- CCP Rise Great - can we fix the Bhaalgorn now? I missed that comment first time round from CCP Rise..... Whilst they are doing some great work, on this they are really in Denial, I know every mother loves her children, but really! It must hurt so much to have people laugh at them, and try to mend their little broken hearts, when you instead could allow them to have the operation to make them better. Hint- adding extra limbs is not helping. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Schluffi Schluffelsen State War Academy Caldari State 14	Posted - 2014.12.04 12:29:11 - [63] - Quote I don't agree with you, the Nestor has it perks - but not as a solo ship. I'd personally love to see a remote cap bonus on (amount/range), then I'd be happy :) . And if CCP reintroduces combat relic sites, the nestor will cool to have :)
Schluffi Schluffelsen State War Academy Caldari State 14	Posted - 2014.12.04 12:34:21 - [64] - Quote whoopsy, pls delete
Kaerakh Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling 489	Posted - 2014.12.04 16:38:30 - [65] - Quote Tchulen wrote: Nope, from pretty much anyone's perspective. Tchulen wrote: Other than the fact that there are people using them in WHs. Such argue, very point, wow, amaze, very effect. Tchulen wrote: No, you posted the same thing twice in the same thread. That's what I'm questioning. That's a straight up lie. Tchulen wrote: Unlike this char. I also live in WHs with other characters. Just looking up the char that someone posts on doesn't really give you crap about what that person (person, not character) actually does or understands about EVE. Seeing as how we've established that you're a liar. I don't have much faith in your claim. Tchulen wrote: Nope. It's a perfectly decent question which you've failed to answer. Perhaps if you tried to use the ship as it's intended rather than try to bend it to a purpose it isn't you might have more luck with it but then I guess one can say that about pretty much anything in EVE. Good luck getting it changed. I agree that it's not perfect but I would say the issue here is 50:50; 50% the ship needs some love and 50% you need to learn to think. Fly stupid ;) Fine, I'll answer it your question. The problem is that we have a useless asset clogging up gameplay that has no effective place. Every ship I listed but the Domi can access the same locations as the Nestor, ergo it's overshadowed by smaller cheaper ships. You also seem to think I have some emotional attachment to this ship. I don't. I've never bought one on TQ or flown one on TQ because the numbers are simply inferior to any other dedicated platform at a higher price tag. It's borderline brain dead to buy one of these rather than use a more effective and cheaper platform as I outlined earlier. Also, it's immaterial if I'm a selfish ******* or not. That does not undercut or invalidate my argument or its points. Meanwhile most of your points and arguments are completely irrelevant to the discussion and make no forward progress to the discussion. You don't make any observations based on observable numbers or facts, meanwhile every point I made can be reinforced by a quick stroll over the numbers, EFT, and some referencing of the market. Lastly, this board isn't for one upping your competition and winning the argument. This board is for the exchange of ideas in an open format so that CCP can either utilize, draw inspiration, or monitor feedback. Bickering over hurt feelings is a distraction. The fact that I had to remind you of this tells me that you're not here to contribute anything and are therefore a crap poster. Schrodinger's Hot Dropper The Fate of Forum Alts
Tchulen Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult 850	Posted - 2014.12.05 14:42:44 - [66] - Quote Kaerakh wrote: >>me - Other than the fact that there are people using them in WHs. Such argue, very point, wow, amaze, very effect. What the fuq? Have you just strung a random bunch of words together because you have nothing useful to respond due to me being right? Cos... you know... I'm right on this one. Kaerakh wrote: >>me - No, you posted the same thing twice in the same thread. That's what I'm questioning. That's a straight up lie. I've just looked back through the thread and you're correct, you posted that in a different thread. I thought I'd read it before and didn't check so no, I'm not lying, I'm mistaken. There is a massive difference. Kaerakh wrote: >>me - Unlike this char. I also live in WHs with other characters. Just looking up the char that someone posts on doesn't really give you crap about what that person (person, not character) actually does or understands about EVE. Seeing as how we've established that you're a liar. I don't have much faith in your claim. Well, seeing how you've established nothing, whether you have or don't have faith in what I've said is irrelavent. Kaerakh wrote: >>me - Nope. It's a perfectly decent question which you've failed to answer. Perhaps if you tried to use the ship as it's intended rather than try to bend it to a purpose it isn't you might have more luck with it but then I guess one can say that about pretty much anything in EVE.) Fine, I'll answer it your question. The problem is that we have a useless asset clogging up gameplay that has no effective place. Every ship I listed but the Domi can access the same locations as the Nestor, ergo it's overshadowed by smaller cheaper ships. So you say but there are quite clearly people using it. People have posted in threads on the forums that they use it and it's still selling for around a billion isk. People are using it. Just because you're not doesn't mean no one has worked out a good use for it. It just means you haven't. Kaerakh wrote: Lastly, this board isn't for one upping your competition and winning the argument. This board is for the exchange of ideas in an open format so that CCP can either utilize, draw inspiration, or monitor feedback. Bickering over hurt feelings is a distraction. The fact that I had to remind you of this tells me that you're not here to contribute anything and are therefore a crap poster. I'm posting counter points. Just because someone disagrees with you it doesn't mean they're not allowed to voice their concerns and thoughts on the subject. Just because someone disagrees with you it doesn't make them a shiptoaster, either. The fact that you think it does says a lot about you. You're the one who needs to be reminded of it, to be honest. I suggest you stop with the bickering but I suspect you won't be able to stop yourself from posting another "bickering" post.
Kaerakh Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling 489	Posted - 2014.12.05 16:06:17 - [67] - Quote Tchulen wrote: What the fuq? Have you just strung a random bunch of words together because you have nothing useful to respond due to me being right? Cos... you know... I'm right on this one. Because it's meaningless. Hearsay is meaningless. Those statements are hearsay. Also: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/doge So in essence I didn't think it was worth responding to. Tchulen wrote: I've just looked back through the thread and you're correct, you posted that in a different thread. I thought I'd read it before and didn't check so no, I'm not lying, I'm mistaken. There is a massive difference. Quality control after trying to slander me, sweet. I'm inspired with complete confidence. Tchulen wrote: Well, seeing how you've established nothing, whether you have or don't have faith in what I've said is irrelavent. You've probably never heard of burden of proof. Tchulen wrote: So you say but there are quite clearly people using it. People have posted in threads on the forums that they use it and it's still selling for around a billion isk. People are using it. Just because you're not doesn't mean no one has worked out a good use for it. It just means you haven't. Forum posters are the minority, sure people will use it, but it's so rare and far flung because it has no proper usage that it alone excels at. Edit: Which I have illustrated at length. Tchulen wrote: I'm posting counter points. Just because someone disagrees with you it doesn't mean they're not allowed to voice their concerns and thoughts on the subject. Just because someone disagrees with you it doesn't make them a shiptoaster, either. The fact that you think it does says a lot about you. You're the one who needs to be reminded of it, to be honest. I suggest you stop with the bickering but I suspect you won't be able to stop yourself from posting another "bickering" post. This is exactly what I was talking about. More of the same. Instead of trying to get into my head you should be focusing on the issue and producing something of quantifiable worth. Right now you're just saying, "They do because I say so." Which is a terrible and ineffectual argument. Anyways, I'm done. I've told you how to convince me several times now and even spelled it out, but you're rabidly focused on the one-up-manship. You can go flame bait someone else. Schrodinger's Hot Dropper The Fate of Forum Alts
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1387	Posted - 2014.12.05 16:30:01 - [68] - Quote Since CCP don't want to give it covert cloak, how about just just the ability to jump to a covert Cyno. It can follow a black ops gang around but can't warp cloaked. You would have to make it enter directly when the shooting begins to not have it get spotted but at least it could follow and rep if needed at that point.
Tchulen Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult 850	Posted - 2014.12.08 08:30:26 - [69] - Quote Kaerakh wrote: This is exactly what I was talking about. More of the same. Instead of trying to get into my head you should be focusing on the issue and producing something of quantifiable worth. Right now you're just saying, "They do because I say so." Which is a terrible and ineffectual argument. No, I'm saying "They do because lots of people say so". I don't think anything is correct just because I think it is. It depends on whether others do as well, which they do. You clearly can't see past your opinion though. Kaerakh wrote: Anyways, I'm done. I've told you how to convince me several times now and even spelled it out, but you're rabidly focused on the one-up-manship. You can go flame bait someone else. What makes you think I want to convince you? My only interest is in letting CCP know that your opinion isn't the only one and that they should carefully consider the current use cases before they go changing things just because someone like you gets all opinionated and vocal on the forumes. I've already expressed my opinion that the ship should perhaps be considered again but just that. I don't think your points of "other ships do each individual thing that this ship does better" to be true or relevant. They don't all do everything that the Nestor does and I've already explained that for some of the roles they don't necessarily do it better. You just stick your fingers in your ears and refuse to listen to reason whilst firmly stating that your opinion is the only truth in a rather over-zealot sort of way which kind of invalidates it.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo The Happy Meal 98	Posted - 2014.12.08 09:35:26 - [70] - Quote It has it's uses in short spurt scenarios, as it reps more than any other ship can. That's why you see them flashing yellow on undocks. ~ Bookmarks in overview ~ Fleet improvements
Fin Diritez Universal Defense Initiative 0	Posted - 2014.12.18 01:51:43 - [71] - Quote Hope we will see something in the next update...
Aran Hotchkiss Phoibe Enterprises 31	Posted - 2014.12.18 02:34:24 - [72] - Quote Tchulen wrote: MOTHER OF ALL SHITSTORMS Good god it's like I dropped two cats in an ice-bath then shoved both of then into an empty sack. Stop, please. The oral diarrhea is starting to obscure everyone's sensors. From my limited experience, the Nestor's price is being artificially raised by SOE probes and launchers - we use Dominixes over Nestor's in our wh ops because for a quarter to a fifth of the hull cost, the Dominix is able to do everything at a sufficient level already.
Kaleesa Paradox Collective Triumvirate. 22	Posted - 2014.12.18 02:58:00 - [73] - Quote Perhaps something that really says it all is that I keep forgetting the Nestor even exists... It's super pointless in its current configuration. Also, all you guys that want to see it turned into a black ops logi.... No... Just no.
Jenshae Chiroptera 614	Posted - 2014.12.18 06:08:30 - [74] - Quote Warde Guildencrantz wrote: As Zmikund said, it's useful in wormholes. I'm more concerned about the Barghest. The point range bonuses are useful, but the general speediness and lack of tank aren't that useful. BSes need huge tank, pretty simple. You can make an armour Barghest with an (80km?) point. CSM Ten movement for change. EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Momiji Sakora Omni Galactic 38	Posted - 2014.12.18 10:50:35 - [75] - Quote Vulfen wrote: Tabyll Altol wrote: SNIP~ Try reading the entire thread. Also my idea/recommendation is CCP should fix the ship, and not keep rebalancing it every 3 months because something else they have done broke it / made it pathetic. Nestor works like a dream for Incursion running - 2x the power of a Guardian whilst still putting out the DPS of a Napoc/Apoc.

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