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Bub Rub Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:18:00 - [1] Edited by: Bub Rub on 28/08/2006 11:21:17 Has their been any real discussion on Anti-Blob Combat(ABC)? I would like to suggest something to get us started if not. My Suggestion When battling for an outpost, there can be a Declaration of Attack *(DOA)* on the outpost. The DOA should be 24-72 hours in advance of the attack, and can be set within an eight hour time window declared by the attacker, this will hopefully allow different time zones the ability to defend or attack an outpost without being asleep/atwork. The defender is allowed to chose a time when the Outpost is attackable within that eight hour time limit. This is the Agreed Upon Attack Declaration *(AUAD). When enacting an DOA* the attackers are allowed to buy or manufacture a number of different levels of DOA. These different levels will consist of the maximum number of players able to participate. These can range from 50-200. This can be adjusted of course by CCP for hardware limitations. The costs should be substantial enough to prevent players from DOAing their own outpost with to prevent other corps/alliances from being able to attack their outpost. This will also add an additional ISK-sink into the game. NOTE: Their will be a roster that will be filled out which will include the participating members from the Attacking side. When the AUAD is reached, for up to eight hours from the start of the AUAD the outpost is warped to a seperate system only reachable by those on the ROSTER, their will be two stargates for each side, one will warp you to the outpost, and one warp you to a Stargate, which will lead back the normal Outposts original residing system. Neither side can warp to these gates until the AUAD has been reached. Neither side can warp to the opponents side until after a 15 minute grace period. The Displaced Outpost will remain in its current state but will technically reside on a seperate cluster to handle such things. The maximum particpant DOA would prevent large blobs from simply "zerging" opponents. -------- Ok, well that was my thought, if anyone has other suggestions or comments, please feel free to put them in this thread. I am not a fleet expert, so a lot of details could be off. I just read a lot of complaints about blob combat, and I wanted to through something out there for you guys to discuss.
Garia666 Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:20:00 - [2] Edited by: Garia666 on 28/08/2006 11:20:38 Why not make it a turn based game ? I know what you say is logics but it removes the freedom of the game..
Bub Rub Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:22:00 - [3] Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 28/08/2006 11:20:38 Why not make it a turn based game ? I know what you say is logics but it removes the freedom of the game.. I don't get your meaning.
Soren Eisarson	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:22:00 - [4] It's a nice try, A+ for effort. I like the idea, but it just doesn't fit this game's style.
Bub Rub Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Soren Eisarson It's a nice try, A+ for effort. I like the idea, but it just doesn't fit this game's style. Thanks for the compliment. I do agree with you that it does not flow perfectly with the idea that is EVE. But, lets not forget our new "feature" of queue'd gates
Shahadet	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:38:00 - [6] I think the main problem with something like this is tbh vary few people want to tell someone they are going to attack them. Kind of removes that element of suprise from a suprise attack. You like the Sig? Check them out hereand see who made them.
Beaty Swollocks	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:41:00 - [7] They do this is SoR and you know what its the biggest pile of crap ever .
Bub Rub Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:43:00 - [8] Originally by: Shahadet I think the main problem with something like this is tbh vary few people want to tell someone they are going to attack them. Kind of removes that element of suprise from a suprise attack. I understand. I personally prefer a game mechanic that does not allow someone to have their outpost ganked without their knowledge. You should not have to keep maximum numbers of people online at all time in order to defend something that costs so much. If someone wants to take it down there should be an fight for it. Piracy should not work on this level in my opinion.
Usotsuki	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:45:00 - [9] This sounds a lot like castle sieges in Lineage 2. One of the best things about pvp in eve is that it is non-consentual. It's all about staying on guard and catching other people off-guard. Unfortunately the game mechanics lead to a lot of blob ganking (which imo, ccp should be looking at) and when i read your thread title i thought you would be talking about that. Instead you're talking about making POS defense easier.... Not that i've ever participated in a POS battle, but judging from what i've read on the forums, is it really necessary to make them even harder to take down (by giving the defenders time to prepare for a 'registered' attack)? There seems to be a lot of "POS battles take too long" sentiment as it is.
Bub Rub Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Beaty Swollocks They do this is SoR and you know what its the biggest pile of crap ever . I think you are referring to Saga of Ryzom? I have never played it, but according to MMORPG rating it is a pretty decent game. I assume everyone is fine with lagged out Blob warfare then and every other thread I see about Fleet battles was just a figment of my imagination I guess?
Chip2k3 Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:46:00 - [11] It's a nice idea but i dont think it would work. It relies too much on corps/alliances being honourable, so an alliance might take 100people in and the defending alliance, not wanting to lose a POS does a omgwtf****heads login trap with 200people. Can you say "pwned by the POS's guns?" Yarr!!
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Bub Rub Originally by: Beaty Swollocks They do this is SoR and you know what its the biggest pile of crap ever . I think you are referring to Saga of Ryzom? I have never played it, but according to MMORPG rating it is a pretty decent game. I assume everyone is fine with lagged out Blob warfare then and every other thread I see about Fleet battles was just a figment of my imagination I guess? Blob warfare is a very difficult thing to stop. I think nobody really likes it under the current circumstances (lag), but so far I've seen no alternatives that don't break EvE's core principles. And having to issue a warning or 'instanced' PvP is a hefty violation of core principles I think. To be honest, I don't see a solution.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:50:00 - [13] Also it would be exploitable I bet. If I were an attacker I would DOA 2 enemy outposts at the same time. Find out which outpost is gonna be defended, and not use that DOA to attack, but take the other one. Zerging is still possible, just takes a little different approach.
Bub Rub Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.28 11:56:00 - [14] Well the only reason I chose POS's as the main focus, is because they are what determines Soveriegnity over a Region, am I right? not being sarcastic This is not the FINAL cut of how it would ideally work, it is just a general suggestion. I know instanced or consentual PvP is not one of the core principles of EVE, but on this level, I believe that it would really not hinder the nature of the beast. A well-organized tactically sound corp could truly when battles of skill, and no longer have the stigma of getting blobbed/blobbing to take control of regions. Like, I said this is just a rough draft of a thought. It was something that really was thought up and typed in about 5 minutes. I am sure if we really put our minds to it, we could adapt something similiar (or not) to help advance the nature of fleet engagements. The current state of which really seems to be lacking.
GoGo Yubari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.28 12:00:00 - [15] Solution for blobs: make every system/node crash if there are more than 40 people inside. No more blobs!
Shahadet	Posted - 2006.08.28 12:02:00 - [16] Originally by: Bub Rub You should not have to keep maximum numbers of people online at all time in order to defend something that costs so much. Then don't buy one. I'm sorry EvE requires work that is not completely easy and simple at the higher end. If you invest billions of Isk you should have a group of people from diffrent time zones (not hard to do) to defend it. I hate lagy and blob combat but I would much rather keep the open ended combat the way it is. Next you will require gate pirates to use the ingate option to build a toll both at a gate. But they will have to submit a request 3 days in advance and everyone in the region will get an EvE-Mail about what gate is camped. They in turn have to get a list to pass through that gate for the next 24 but only the frist 1000 people will get Gate Toll acces rigts. You like the Sig? Check them out hereand see who made them.
JOSEPHx Caldari Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.08.28 12:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Bub Rub I personally prefer a game mechanic that does not allow someone to have their outpost ganked without their knowledge. You should not have to keep maximum numbers of people online at all time in order to defend something that costs so much. If someone wants to take it down there should be an fight for it. Piracy should not work on this level in my opinion. Surely if it costs so much to build you would be prepared to defend that? Telling the attackers when they can attack seems a bit like consentual pvp? ---
Bub Rub Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.28 12:10:00 - [18] Originally by: Shahadet Originally by: Bub Rub You should not have to keep maximum numbers of people online at all time in order to defend something that costs so much. Then don't buy one. I'm sorry EvE requires work that is not completely easy and simple at the higher end. If you invest billions of Isk you should have a group of people from diffrent time zones (not hard to do) to defend it. I hate lagy and blob combat but I would much rather keep the open ended combat the way it is. Next you will require gate pirates to use the ingate option to build a toll both at a gate. But they will have to submit a request 3 days in advance and everyone in the region will get an EvE-Mail about what gate is camped. They in turn have to get a list to pass through that gate for the next 24 but only the frist 1000 people will get Gate Toll acces rigts. Please dont try to put words in my mouth. Gate camping has nothing do with my suggestion. I really am not sure what the problem is with the "Don't buy one" attitude. I am not saying you can not attack the thing for months at a time or something. A short, read..SHORT time to allow players to DEFEND their structure. You could even surprise attack it to where it is the state of invulnerability, which all turrets would be offline. But you can not destroy it until you have DOA'd the structure. This gives attackers the same advantage as before, except now you can have a time when you will all battle for this structure and move it to a NON-lagged cluster.
Bub Rub Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.08.28 12:12:00 - [19] Originally by: JOSEPHx Surely if it costs so much to build you would be prepared to defend that? Telling the attackers when they can attack seems a bit like consentual pvp? --- The cost is not the issue, it is the lag fest. Read above attackers could still disable the control tower, but could not physically destroy it until a set time has been reached by both parties, within a reasonable amount of time. You could DOA as many structures as you want at any time, you could DOA 20 POS's at a time if you want.
Kay Han Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.08.28 12:13:00 - [20] sipmle resolution Make outposts conquerable again.. at any given time. The invularabilty (sp?) of outposts was the dumbest thing which ccp added tbh. It was nice to log in the other day and see the station was conquered over night by your enemies, like in the old days ___________________________________________ A wise man said once: 'Violence is the escape of the mentaly poor guys.'
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.28 12:14:00 - [21] Edited by: Goberth Ludwig on 28/08/2006 12:15:02 Nothing wrong with blob tactics, eve is a ruthless game... And besides its been shown over and over than skills and organization can overcome numerical disparity. Originally by: Kay Han sipmle resolution Make outposts conquerable again.. at any given time. The invularabilty (sp?) of outposts was the dumbest thing which ccp added tbh. It was nice to log in the other day and see the station was conquered over night by your enemies, like in the old days erm remember station ping pong? that was the silliest warfare ever - Gob [IXC] Admiral Goberius
Beaty Swollocks	Posted - 2006.08.28 17:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Bub Rub I think you are referring to Saga of Ryzom? I have never played it, but according to MMORPG rating it is a pretty decent game. I assume everyone is fine with lagged out Blob warfare then and every other thread I see about Fleet battles was just a figment of my imagination I guess? Yes i did mean sage of ryzom , yes its a nice looking game and such . But if you wanna attack a Ooutpost you have to say "Hey we hereby give you 24hours notice that we are gonna attack" 24hours later one big zerg fest waiting for you and takes the fun out of suprse attackls and what not. its total bs tbh and such a crap pvp system.
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 17:21:00 - [23] My thought on Blobing: Anyone seen Lord of the Rings? Or any historical war documentary? To win, you get as ridiculously huge an army as you can muster and throw it at your enemy so they're purely overwhelmed. It's human nature, it's historically acurate, and it works. EvE's failing is not being able to handle Blobing in the server-loading aspect. Rome didn't become powerful because of lag. "Et tu, Brute?" "Lag, sorry" "lol pwnt" --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"

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