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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
132
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Posted - 2014.11.16 17:22:47 -
[1] - Quote
Are Skiffs overpowered insofar as given a certain scenario they are too difficult to move on or destroy 
I will portray a scenario and follow up with some comment and questions associated with it:
We are in a 0.6 system. There is a probable single or multiple ISBoxer controlled fleet of 18 ships comprising a Charon, Orca, Cyclone, and 15 Skiffs. They are believed to be only fluent in Russian so communication in chat channel may be problematic but using EVE mail with google translate assistance would be possible. They are using one or more MTU's to assist in collection of the ore being mined. All members of the fleet are in NPC corporations so a wardec cannot be used to destroy or disperse them.
They appear to be feeling invincible as a cursory ship scan revealed they are using modules such as ORE miner which appear to sell for about 400 million ISK each. Further intel collection will probably reveal more high value module use.
Nevertheless for small operations such as [KRUSA] these characters are proving a hard nut to crack. I am coming from a T2 fit Gallente destroyer & cruiser basis . A single T2 dessie or even a T2 Thorax isn't going to take down a Skiff with some defences, or is it? I have tried the 'James315' cruiser 'bumping' fit in a Thorax with a 10MN but this doesn't seem to move them very far at all. Do I need to approach/hit them from a certain direction ?
I cannot fit a standard 100MN on a cruiser because of lack of powergrid even with decent skills. So I am left with either sourcing a COSMOS 100MN which may be tricky or skilling up to a strategic cruiser or a battleship. Actually thinking now the battleship is probably my next option...... . Other than that I am considering attacking their MTU's to force a fight or jet can theft.
So in short I propose that the Skiff is currently overpowered and with the above scenario in place which is I daresay not uncommon. It's good for CCPs bank balance it is dare I say it 'game-breaking'. Ships have to be able to be destroyed in New Eden and this is disrupting the balance.
I open this out for discussion.
PS If others are interested in visiting destruction upon these 18 accounts I can pass on intel which I am currently collating while trying to move them on. |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
151
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Posted - 2014.11.16 17:28:13 -
[2] - Quote
Here is the thing. Skiffs are overpowered in highsec. They were before they got a yield tank and damage buff. flying a skiff makes you extremely safe. Being able to afk mine with no situational awareness is extremely powerful.
However, most miners are lazy and bad. As such, skiffs are extremely underutilized. CCP is not going to need them until they become extremely popular, which would require miners to stop being lazy and bad(the New Order has done a lot to encourage skiff use). |
Josef Djugashvilis
2676
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Posted - 2014.11.16 18:17:40 -
[3] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:Here is the thing. Skiffs are overpowered in highsec. They were before they got a yield tank and damage buff. flying a skiff makes you extremely safe. Being able to afk mine with no situational awareness is extremely powerful.
However, most miners are lazy and bad. As such, skiffs are extremely underutilized. CCP is not going to need them until they become extremely popular, which would require miners to stop being lazy and bad(the New Order has done a lot to encourage skiff use).
I notice that you have started a thread in GD to continue trolling.
Please stop.
This is not a signature.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Second-Dawn
504
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Posted - 2014.11.16 18:30:20 -
[4] - Quote
Well there is nothing wrong with having a target to aim for, they are made strong to be able to operate in 0.0, however rest assured that only people who want to be hard to kill use them, most people are easy to gank. Personally I like them very much and will actually mine every so often when I cannot be bothered to do anything else, the key thing is because I can use a ship with a tank, and no I do not mine AFK because I don't like being an easy kill.
Ella's Snack bar
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
192
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Posted - 2014.11.16 20:59:47 -
[5] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:Here is the thing. Skiffs are overpowered in highsec. They were before they got a yield tank and damage buff. flying a skiff makes you extremely safe. Being able to afk mine with no situational awareness is extremely powerful.
I concur. Skiffs are a little too powerful now. I agree there should be a ship that is highly resistant to highsec gankers, but as it is, the yield of the Skiff is not that much lower than a Mackinaw making the choice (to those paying attention) obvious.
After all these buffs to the Skiff, there really is no reason to choose anything else in highsec, especially for the AFK miner. Buff the yield of the Hulk/Mack or nerf that of the Skiff to bring things back in line.
But to really fix things we also need to get people out of NPC corps to prevent such hiding from wardecs, as well as giving mining some more active game play so that multiboxing Skiffs in highsec is no longer the optimal strategy for being a profitable miner in this game. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10627
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Posted - 2014.11.16 21:19:25 -
[6] - Quote
For their incredible tank, they don't pay much in terms of yield, that's for sure.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
109
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Posted - 2014.11.16 21:33:48 -
[7] - Quote
Wanna shoot skiffs?
Just leave hisec you carebears!
Skiffs where buffed because guys like you, so no need for crying ganker tears.
What now codies always say miner should do more to not be ganked and now when they do...
You are crying for mama?
As said: Leave hisec and grow some hair...
Forum Main
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Zedutchman
The Miners of Hyperion
0
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Posted - 2014.11.16 22:23:11 -
[8] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:Wanna shoot skiffs? Just leave hisec you carebears! Skiffs where buffed because guys like you, so no need for crying ganker tears. What now codies always say miner should do more to not be ganked and now when they do... You are crying for mama? As said: Leave hisec and grow some hair...
.... Why... Nell sec ores are worth nothing and low-sec has been a death trap for a decade.
I feel your pain though OP... I saw a VERY similar group(prolly the same guy) in an ice belt the other day with 15 skiffs and Orca and a hauler in perfect formation cruising slowing through and devouring everything....
And i thought.... You know for ALL the times i've been suicide ganked.. those CODE B******* are never around when you need them. |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
67
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Posted - 2014.11.16 23:12:32 -
[9] - Quote
Pointing out that a ship has too much yield is now trolling in the eyes of the carebears. 
Eventually just logging in will be trolling, and they'll ask CCP to nerf that somehow too.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
482
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Posted - 2014.11.16 23:26:45 -
[10] - Quote
While I agree that the Skiff is overpowered, I have to point out that ganking is not the only weapon against them.
Bumping, while not really effective against a single Skiff is highly effective against a fleet of them. They often rely on an Orcas fleet hangar to move their Ore to the Freighter. Bump the Orca away with a 100MN MWD Cruiser and you will shutdown their complete operation. It's extremely satisfactory to shutdown a fleet of 10+ ships with just one cruiser.
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
132
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Posted - 2014.11.16 23:37:15 -
[11] - Quote
Yes I am going to use 'bumping' to get them to move elsewhere. I had a brain block or something earlier and now realise I can probably use a Brutix as that will have more powergrid so I can fit a 100MN on it. I didn't think about just 'bumping' the Orca far away. That will be much easier. |
CODE Agent AC
The Conference Elite
CODE.
744
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Posted - 2014.11.17 00:20:23 -
[12] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:While I agree that the Skiff is overpowered, I have to point out that ganking is not the only weapon against them.
Bumping, while not really effective against a single Skiff is highly effective against a fleet of them. They often rely on an Orcas fleet hangar to move their Ore to the Freighter. Bump the Orca away with a 100MN MWD Cruiser and you will shutdown their complete operation. It's extremely satisfactory to shutdown a fleet of 10+ ships with just one cruiser.
Skiff bumping an ice mining OP always makes me happy.
The Artist Formerly Known As AC.-á
The-áterminal end of the digestive system.-á
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Anal Canal
The Conference Elite
CODE.
746
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Posted - 2014.11.17 00:20:23 -
[13] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:While I agree that the Skiff is overpowered, I have to point out that ganking is not the only weapon against them.
Bumping, while not really effective against a single Skiff is highly effective against a fleet of them. They often rely on an Orcas fleet hangar to move their Ore to the Freighter. Bump the Orca away with a 100MN MWD Cruiser and you will shutdown their complete operation. It's extremely satisfactory to shutdown a fleet of 10+ ships with just one cruiser.
Skiff bumping an ice mining OP always makes me happy.
The Artist Formerly Known As AC.-á
The-áterminal end of the digestive system.-á
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
3615
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Posted - 2014.11.17 00:23:36 -
[14] - Quote
Confirming that bumping Skiffs is very effective if the Skiff pilot is AFK.
If they aren't AFK, they should be using a Hulk instead.
www.minerbumping.com - Mining accidents are on the increase. Don't become a statistic, become a permit holder!
Ganking doesn't need a purpose, the gank is its own purpose.
You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I gank.
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Hannibal Carlisle
Black Storm Cartel
Snuggle Struggle.
19
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Posted - 2014.11.17 01:18:55 -
[15] - Quote
As a few others noted, bumping the orca is the key. The skiffs generally orbit the orca so 3-4 good bumps on the orca pretty much ends it all together. |
Michael Ruckert
SECURE TRANSPORTS
217
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Posted - 2014.11.17 01:21:47 -
[16] - Quote
Position a Skiff or Procurer right up against ice or roid. Proceed to mine. Note what happens when bumping is attempted. Nice having that ice or roid close for a bump. 
"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
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CODE Agent AC
The Conference Elite
CODE.
744
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Posted - 2014.11.17 01:57:04 -
[17] - Quote
Hannibal Carlisle wrote:As a few others noted, bumping the orca is the key. The skiffs generally orbit the orca so 3-4 good bumps on the orca pretty much ends it all together.
I call this event 'Eve-Bowling'
The Artist Formerly Known As AC.-á
The-áterminal end of the digestive system.-á
|
Anal Canal
The Conference Elite
CODE.
746
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 01:57:04 -
[18] - Quote
Hannibal Carlisle wrote:As a few others noted, bumping the orca is the key. The skiffs generally orbit the orca so 3-4 good bumps on the orca pretty much ends it all together.
I call this event 'Eve-Bowling'
The Artist Formerly Known As AC.-á
The-áterminal end of the digestive system.-á
|
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
3616
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Posted - 2014.11.17 05:01:18 -
[19] - Quote
Hannibal Carlisle wrote:As a few others noted, bumping the orca is the key. The skiffs generally orbit the orca so 3-4 good bumps on the orca pretty much ends it all together.
Ganking the Orca should also be considered. It sends a very clear message to the Skiff pilots.
www.minerbumping.com - Mining accidents are increasing. Get your permit now.
Ganking doesn't need a purpose, the gank is its own purpose.
You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I gank.
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Jurico Elemenohpe
Laughing Coffin's
Surely You're Joking
12
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Posted - 2014.11.17 06:00:47 -
[20] - Quote
In fleet mining, the Skiff is actually better than the Mackinaw.
Their yield is equal, but in fleet mining, there is no travel time for the ships, so the larger hold of the Mackinaw is completely useless, which is why the Skiff is super popular. It's also probably better than the hulk in fleet mining, because of the fact it'll rarely get ganked, so your "effective isk/hour" is better. I think.. I'm not sure how many hours a hulk needs to mine to cover the cost of itself. |
Ria Nieyli
22678
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:47:01 -
[21] - Quote
So, a single person can not deal with a congregation of eighteen players? Seems to be working as intended. HTFU.
Clone Grade Nu
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Josef Djugashvilis
2677
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:47:51 -
[22] - Quote
The Skiff is not overpowerd, the ganker is under-skilled.
This is not a signature.
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
132
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Posted - 2014.11.17 11:07:18 -
[23] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:The Skiff is not overpowerd, the ganker is under-skilled.
Actually for the record I am fully skilled in terms of T2 fit destroyers & cruisers in the Gallente line and in terms of fittings. |
Jack Morrison
Sinister Spinster
167
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Posted - 2014.11.17 11:11:31 -
[24] - Quote
You have your solution, bump the Orca and the Freighter, skiffs become useless. Enjoy the tears and share them.
"This is nothing more than a rumor with no basis of fact. Hope that's enough of a confirmation for you guys. :)"
Coolstorybro
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
132
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Posted - 2014.11.17 11:21:39 -
[25] - Quote
Jack Morrison wrote:You have your solution, bump the Orca and the Freighter, skiffs become useless. Enjoy the tears and share them.
Will do my friend. New ship is ready to go. 
I still feel the Skiff is overpowered though. If as others have said, maybe elsewhere, that the yield on a Skiff & a Mackinaw is virtually the same then probably a drop in yield on the Skiff would make the situation better.
Also the Procurer has too low a build cost given that it has a tank similar to battleship. So I would suggest it should have a build cost at a minimum of 50 million in terms of materials needed to build.
Other than that the mining vessels are probably about right. I think....... |
Leto Thule
Whelp Club
1596
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Posted - 2014.11.17 12:40:22 -
[26] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:The Skiff is not overpowerd, the ganker is under-skilled.
Because moar shkillz will allow a gank catalyst to take down battleship EHP in less than 20 seconds.
Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
Ripard Teg sucks.
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Zedutchman
The Miners of Hyperion
0
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Posted - 2014.11.17 13:14:49 -
[27] - Quote
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:In fleet mining, the Skiff is actually better than the Mackinaw.
Their yield is equal, but in fleet mining, there is no travel time for the ships, so the larger hold of the Mackinaw is completely useless, which is why the Skiff is super popular. It's also probably better than the hulk in fleet mining, because of the fact it'll rarely get ganked, so your "effective isk/hour" is better. I think.. I'm not sure how many hours a hulk needs to mine to cover the cost of itself.
Depends what you are minning, but if it's ICE and it's not super-populated you make 18 mil an hour in a MAC.... A hulk is about 20% better, so.... your still looking at 10+ hours of uninterupted ice mining(which would never happen anymore). So you'd need at least 3 Ice belt spawns......
About a day.... if you did nothing else, and jumped systems to chase ice-belts for a hulk to pay for itself. Although anyone farming that hard with a hulk with Code lurking about is out of their minds. |
Josef Djugashvilis
2678
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Posted - 2014.11.17 13:20:26 -
[28] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:The Skiff is not overpowerd, the ganker is under-skilled. Because moar shkillz will allow a gank catalyst to take down battleship EHP in less than 20 seconds.
Bring more friends to the party.
This is not a signature.
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Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
133
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Posted - 2014.11.17 13:51:46 -
[29] - Quote
Drone damage bonus of 50%, yield on par with mackinaw so I heard (dunno if true), speed, capable of insane tank even with mostly yield oriented fits, decent ore bay and I think it had it's sig radius reduced too this year?
Nothing wrong with any of these on their own or several combined but all of them put together on a MINING vessel, yes, I'd say it's pretty goddamn overpowered.
As it stands now, it's a 'get out of gank free (semi)afk'-card that gives good yield. In the spirit of EVE I'd say that it's yield should be by FAR the lowest of all mining barges/exhumers (except it's T1 brother of course). Like 2/3th of a Mack for instance. Then it can keep all it's other bonusses which are still very good. And I do mean a YIELD nerf, not an ore bay nerf since those are easily circumvented by using a hauler, most Skiffs I come across have Orca support anyways so an ore bay nerf would be mostly symbolic.
I like the Skiff, but it should be a low yield mining vessel with very good defense instead of having the best of not both but all worlds. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
738
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Posted - 2014.11.17 15:21:52 -
[30] - Quote
CCP gave pilots a choice: you can fly for tank, yield, or capacity.
Hisec suicide ganking renders two of the three choices undesirable, so players eventually start choosing the third option en masse.
Emergent gameplay.
Working as intended.
Whines of something being overpowered ensue, and those that understand both sides of the issue grin with an overwhelmingly powerful sense of irony.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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