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eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:38:00 - [1] Piracy V2.0 Piracy in eve has come to gate camping and very rare ransoms at gate camping. "High sec piracy" is suicide bombing ships in high sec and then using a friend or alt to pickup the loot. Either way you look at it, piracy in eve currently sucks. Sucks for the pirates, sucks for the prey, sucks for everyone. Suggestions for Piracy V2.0: (explained below) 1. Ransom Window 2. Pirate Honesty Rating 3. Real NPC Convoys 4. No more easy sniper pirating (sorry but its lame - not fitting with EVE) 5. No "high sec pirating" at stations/gates (with a twist) 6. Bounty Hunting (transferrable killrights) 1. Ransom Window A ransom window, similar to the trade window. This can be accessed via right click>ransom (under start convo). ISK and items from cargo/assets list can be dragged into the ransom window (like a mini mobile escrow) and when everyones in agreement the window is closed and the ship is free to go. Once a successful ransom is made the victim is marked blue to the pirates alliance/corp for 1 hour, giving plenty of time to leave the area. 2. Pirate Honesty Rating If a member of the corp/alliance who just ransomed the victim tries to kill them after ransoming(within 1 hour of ransom), they are made permanent -11 (yes worse than 10 - and never recoverable. From then on that pirate would always be -11 no matter how much they NPC or whatever. Think of it as a permanent mark for bad behaviour, as such most people will not bother paying ransom to them in future so this encourages "honest piracy". 3. Real NPC Convoys NPC convoys consisting of say 2 BS, 4 cruisers, 6 frigates, escorting 2 industrials. Showing as white like current ones, which travel from NPC stations all over the galaxy. These should be comparable to level 4 NPC's in difficulty and drop half decent loot to make them worthwhile attacking for pirates. They only fire when fired upon. 4. No more easy sniper pirating (sorry but its lame - not fitting with EVE) Make Sentry Turrent range 350km. Yep that's all :) they're still not impossible to tank but its much harder to do with a sniper setup. 5. No "high sec pirating" at stations/gates (with a twist). Make opening high sec cans in situations where the ship was destroyed by "pirate", an offence without the owners permission. Permission can be requested by right clicking on can, request clearance for opening. If "block can permission requests" is enabled then only the owner can open his can and receives no permission requests (could become spam in jita for example). This means you can kill, but if you open the can (even to look at it) without permission you will be concorded also. (a new warning should be implented for this occurance in high sec). To further reinforce this, any ship destroyed by concord, will have its can's permissions owned by the victim it was attacking. It will also forfeit it's insurance (should have been done from the start). Opening other poeple's can's in low sec should also get the same response (sentry fire). This will make looting riskier for pirates. 6. Bounty Hunting (transferrable killrights) Killrights able to go up for sale on the new contracts system. Also can be traded by players in a trade window. It cannot be applied to an entire corp, only one member will have the killrights at a time. Bounty no longer awarded or removed except by a bounty hunter who has the killrights for the target. Killrights can be purchased by the person with the bounty (so they can still get a corp mate to pod themselves for their bounty - however they'd have to convince their victim to sell them their own killrights first - which may not be easy). These ideas would bring new life to EVE. Piracy would become piracy again, ransoming people would be fun and they could offer things out of their hangers if they don't have isk. Bounty hunting also would be an amazing new feature. The rest i think are just common sense. Discuss!
Great Artista Earthbound Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:40:00 - [2] Statement 2. Honesty rating utterly sucks. Nothing in this game should be permanent. ------------- ½Artista - One name. One legend.+ -Sloganizer.net
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:43:00 - [3] Sounds decent except for the permanent sec status/honesty thing. What if the pirate decides to turn over a new leaf? What if, due to lag, lost connections, or inattention (wtf - one of my guns was still on! etc.) he accidentally blows up the person he was trying to ransom? Remove the permanent setting and instead replace it with a 3-month moving average. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Caleb Paine Infinite Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:44:00 - [4] On your thing on the ransom window; That really takes all the fun out of the encounter and makes it into an abstract happening. I like the non-standard way of how things are going, the contact, chats, the uhm 'your mom' replies you get at times. People that are so ****ed they close chat on you, the negotiations and all that. If it would go like clockwork it would be boring as hell, as boring as mining, missionrunning and all that. Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
Akyan Caldari InQuest Ascension Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Great Artista Statement 2. Honesty rating utterly sucks. Nothing in this game should be permanent. Agree on the whole, apart from the exception mentioned by Artista. It would make more sense to have a new honesty standing rather than try to incorperate it into the security standing. It could then also maybe get linked with the new contract system also.
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:45:00 - [6] Originally by: Great Artista Statement 2. Honesty rating utterly sucks. Nothing in this game should be permanent. I feel you are very wrong, accountability for your actions and character development is lacking very badly in eve. Why do you think it shouldn't be permanent?
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Caleb Paine On your thing on the ransom window; That really takes all the fun out of the encounter and makes it into an abstract happening. I like the non-standard way of how things are going, the contact, chats, the uhm 'your mom' replies you get at times. People that are so ***ed they close chat on you, the negotiations and all that. If it would go like clockwork it would be boring as hell, as boring as mining, missionrunning and all that. The ransom window could also have a chat interface, that way people could smacktalk, YARRRRR!, and complain to their hearts' content. Personally, I'd prefer it this way - a chat window with an extra "ransom" component. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing* to this thread!"
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Wrayeth Sounds decent except for the permanent sec status/honesty thing. What if the pirate decides to turn over a new leaf? What if, due to lag, lost connections, or inattention (wtf - one of my guns was still on! etc.) he accidentally blows up the person he was trying to ransom? Remove the permanent setting and instead replace it with a 3-month moving average. what about a 1 month -11 status?
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Caleb Paine On your thing on the ransom window; That really takes all the fun out of the encounter and makes it into an abstract happening. I like the non-standard way of how things are going, the contact, chats, the uhm 'your mom' replies you get at times. People that are so ****ed they close chat on you, the negotiations and all that. If it would go like clockwork it would be boring as hell, as boring as mining, missionrunning and all that. I'm picturing it integrated into the convo window, so you get convo + ransom if you choose to ransom. Does that sound better? I agree if theres no communication it would be pretty boring. Lots of opportunities for "your mom" replies
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Wrayeth what i just said :P sorry mate u post too fast for me :)
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:51:00 - [11] Edited by: Wrayeth on 29/08/2006 12:52:31 Originally by: eLLioTT wave Originally by: Wrayeth Sounds decent except for the permanent sec status/honesty thing. What if the pirate decides to turn over a new leaf? What if, due to lag, lost connections, or inattention (wtf - one of my guns was still on! etc.) he accidentally blows up the person he was trying to ransom? Remove the permanent setting and instead replace it with a 3-month moving average. what about a 1 month -11 status? Much as blowing up someone after ransoming them is reprehensible, it isn't deserving of this. It might've been an accident; moreover, it doesn't fit the EVE standard of "buyer beware". If the person being ransomed ignores the pirates' honesty meter and pays him anyway, then it's on the ransomee (is that a word? lol) for being stupid. A 3-month moving average of ransom honesty would be a much better indicator. Oh, and you wouldn't be able to ransom your own corp members, alliance members, and anyone your corp and alliance has set to positive standings; this would make it harder (though not impossible) for people to scam their honesty meter. EDIT: Also make scamming the honesty meter one of the few bannable offenses as far as in-game scams are concerned. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:53:00 - [12] High Sec pirating: That is not gonna work. Cans are litter in space, and open for all to take. It's the "placement" of the can that is the crime. Your suggestion would also mean, that war targets would be the only one able to take their can back. (Sounds like a WoW corpse run with possible corpse camping ) I like the spirit of your suggestion, but not the proposed solutions. I hope that Kali faction wars will result in me beeing able to defend Amarrian convoys from other players without concord disturbing
Ombey	Posted - 2006.08.29 12:57:00 - [13] Excellent OP, gets my vote- apart from the perma -11. Maybe set it for a couple of weeks, but do it 3 times, then it's perma -11. No way you can blame lag/ Murphy/ Tooth Fairy 3 times. -- ombeve
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:06:00 - [14] Pirate Honesty rating lol
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:13:00 - [15] How is sniping any different to alliance fleet warfair. Both are lame, require no skill except grinding to tech II guns, and offer no chance of salvation for the guy getting spanked... Ummm sorry only read like the first few lines of the Op's post I'l go back and read it now ive flamed Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Spanker	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:20:00 - [16] /signed for the sentry gun range increase (since sniping is like, lolz) and fixing suicide empire ganking (since it's obviously a blatant exploit). Those two are all you need get rid of for the old school pirating to get going again imo. It was a year ago I was ransomed last, I miss it - now I just get instablobbed next to gates since I can't be arsed to use instas. - Shpank
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes High Sec pirating: That is not gonna work. Cans are litter in space, and open for all to take. It's the "placement" of the can that is the crime. Your suggestion would also mean, that war targets would be the only one able to take their can back. (Sounds like a WoW corpse run with possible corpse camping ) I like the spirit of your suggestion, but not the proposed solutions. I hope that Kali faction wars will result in me beeing able to defend Amarrian convoys from other players without concord disturbing Good point i hadn't thought of. In war the cans should be open to both sides of the war. Also with the can thing i suggested ^ make it a 1 hour timer? after that its free for all. I would also like a timer on anchoring cans, make it after 1 week of no activity they can be opened/destroyed by anyone? Any other things that need balance?
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii How is sniping any different to alliance fleet warfair. Both are lame, require no skill except grinding to tech II guns, and offer no chance of salvation for the guy getting spanked... Ummm sorry only read like the first few lines of the Op's post I'l go back and read it now ive flamed Alliaanna not sure what you were getting at lol, but i'd appreciate your input on the REST of the thread :P
Gift Amarr Loot	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:49:00 - [19] No thanks on all accounts. There are alot of problems with the current form of eve piracy but these suggestions would fix little to none & dont address the core issues. and about sniping: YOU DID THIS PEOPLE! Remember your "adapt or die" speaches ever time they would nerf piracy? IT's YOUR FAULT! ok, i feel better.
Waio Valerius	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:59:00 - [20] Ransom window sounds cool. Gatecamping has got to go That may be true, Sir. But I have a hammer
doyoulikemytightsweater	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:05:00 - [21] 3. Real NPC Convoys NPC convoys consisting of say 2 BS, 4 cruisers, 6 frigates, escorting 2 industrials. Showing as white like current ones, which travel from NPC stations all over the galaxy. These should be comparable to level 4 NPC's in difficulty and drop half decent loot to make them worthwhile attacking for pirates. They only fire when fired upon. I love this ;) You see a convoy in space and get to choose- should I attack it and get rich ? Maybing seeing someone attack it should I help defend it even and get some standings ? So much potential there - and hopefully something that ll reduce the gate camp ganking which gets boring (and kinda easy to evade if you re clever)
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:13:00 - [22] Originally by: Gift No thanks on all accounts. There are alot of problems with the current form of eve piracy but these suggestions would fix little to none & dont address the core issues. and about sniping: YOU DID THIS PEOPLE! Remember your "adapt or die" speaches ever time they would nerf piracy? IT's YOUR FAULT! ok, i feel better. Please be more specific. What are the core issues you are referring to that i haven't addressed? what do you see as the current problems?
La Tortura Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:20:00 - [23] Edited by: La Tortura on 29/08/2006 14:26:29 I'm wholeheartedly against 5 of 6 statements mentioned above as: 1. Nothing would stop pirate from shooting target that is marked blue for him. Nothing would stop the prey from dragging out till his friends jump in and blow the stoopid pirate to bits. 2. Just plain stoopid. And exploitable. Pirates will atack their preys with 2 independent corps. One ransoms, second kills. So wouldn't work as well. 3.What for? There are lvl 4 missions (hard as PvE activity) and there are belt rats (hard as PvP activity). 4.I think 250km range is a limitation of the current engine. Anyway, people will snipe even if there will be 500 km sentries, they will just use second ship with remote healing - a tanked BS if centries will aggro on healer or a logistic cruiser if they won't. Or they will just blob. 5.Why the hell? What the game will have got from this? Semmns it works just fine as is. There shouldn't be absolutelly safe space in eve. 6. The only good idea. UPDATE 6. On the second thought it will be exploitable. Not sure how atm, but for unknown reason it seems very exploitable to me. -- ignorance is bliss
Lo3d3R Implant Liberation Front	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:26:00 - [24] another poor soul that lost a ship to a sniper there are only 5000 scenario's where you can make the sniper(s) go boomboom, lazy- stupidness are not an option. ___________________ Eating Chopped Bear:
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.08.29 14:30:00 - [25] Edited by: eLLioTT wave on 29/08/2006 14:32:19 Originally by: Lo3d3R another poor soul that lost a ship to a sniper there are only 5000 scenario's where you can make the sniper(s) go boomboom, lazy- stupidness are not an option. FYI no, im usually the one with 4 points warping to the covops and landing ontop of the snipers, trapping them for the rest of the gang :) btw what has this got to do with the thread?
Savio	Posted - 2006.08.29 16:15:00 - [26] sounds good one bad thing is the pernament thing.. did like the transferable killrights, this could open up for some real bounty hunting :)
Kaomi Zorbaz	Posted - 2006.08.29 16:21:00 - [27] For high sec pirating erasing insurance reimbursement for being concorded will deter but not eliminate the practice. In high sec >.5 make containers dropped from ships unopenable by people other than the owner who got toasted will eliminate the practice all together. I perfer the first because even in high sec I think a suicide bomber should have a chance at it.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.08.29 16:39:00 - [28] In a resume your ideas stink ,don't resolve the issues we(pirates) have today ,the only good idea is the transferable killrights. You don¦t address STABS,ECM and INSTAS .
IDesert FoxI	Posted - 2006.08.29 16:48:00 - [29] Maybe instead of a sec hit for dishonest pirates, have another rating, detailing how often they have honoured ransoms or not. This would give an indication of how trustable they are for certain.
Gift Amarr Loot	Posted - 2006.08.29 16:57:00 - [30] Edited by: Gift on 29/08/2006 16:58:43 Originally by: eLLioTT wave Originally by: Gift No thanks on all accounts. There are alot of problems with the current form of eve piracy but these suggestions would fix little to none & dont address the core issues. and about sniping: YOU DID THIS PEOPLE! Remember your "adapt or die" speaches ever time they would nerf piracy? IT's YOUR FAULT! ok, i feel better. Please be more specific. What are the core issues you are referring to that i haven't addressed? what do you see as the current problems? What I see as major issues òWarp core stabs - nuff said òInstas - since sniping is the only defense òCriminal flagging in its current form - also encourages sniping, just makes things boring in general òLow-sec and its lack of rewards for everyone - only targets currently are at gates To address your points: Ransom Window I dont care for the idea of game mechanics forcing me to be honest as it just removes another freedom of choice we have, the window idea is fine as long as I can still shoot the person after if they talk smack. Pirate Honesty Rating Just, no thanks No more easy sniper pirating (sorry but its lame - not fitting with EVE) It has become the pilar of low-sec piracy because of constant nerfs. The eve-community made this bed, now lay in it. No "high sec pirating" at stations/gates (with a twist). Another freedom gone, ill pass.

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