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We need some combat training arenas

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Torik	Posted - 2003.10.14 22:20:00 - [1] What we really need are some way to train PvP combat without risking our ships. The main reason why I choose to avoid PvP is that I lack the training for it. I know that a competent pirate would eat me for breakfast. I don't know what to expect and how to react. Trying PvP at this point would just result in me losing my ship and clone. What I would love to see is a sort of combat simulator where players could fight against each other without risking their ships, clones or implants. It could be a new solar system or maybe an option on a station. Fighter pilots go through hours of simulations before they are ready to engage in real combat. If people could try out combat without the fear of losing weeks of work, more of them would be inclined to engage in full combat in the game.
sutty	Posted - 2003.10.14 22:30:00 - [2] that is a fantistic idea, i dont know how they would impliment it but it would be cool :D
Indigo Seqi	Posted - 2003.10.14 22:31:00 - [3] I'd use the test server for this if I were you
sutty	Posted - 2003.10.14 22:33:00 - [4] no the guy is right, like PS has its simulator bit. it would be really cool but proberly would be a long time comming, there is a big learning curv in eve :>
Arkonor	Posted - 2003.10.14 22:35:00 - [5] they have its called "CHAOS" but it would be nice to have arena's where you can go and sign up for knock out contest's and stuff
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.14 22:36:00 - [6] Edited by: Drethen Nerevitas on 14/10/2003 22:37:31 Perhaps Indigo, but a large amount of people can't be bothered d/ling the masses of patches just to get on Chaos (A lot probably don't even know how), even fewer can be bothered to stomach the possible bugs. I think a stationbased combat simulator would give new pilots some experience and more will to go out and do things. (And it'd let the people who already do combat test things without risking their ship ) I think it's a good idea. Edit: A large, perhaps majority of Eve that doesn't do combat doesn't have a clue how to get onto/use Chaos. More just don't want to. The training simulator would be an alternate and much easier way of doing the same thing. And as suggested above, you could use it for in-corp tournies if you were isk-shy. _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Thanatar Thed	Posted - 2003.10.14 22:41:00 - [7] I like the idea of pilot combat training area but I can see a problem (a problem for me anyway). I'm no PvP expert but it seems to me that PvP hinges on the effective use of modules. If you had access to a load of modules in the training area it would kinda ruin it for me in the main game. The excitement of getting new modules would be gone. It agonised over joining in with Armagedon in Beta for the same reason. In the end I decided not to take part.
voogru	Posted - 2003.10.14 23:01:00 - [8] Chaos is best for this. Though everyone uses battleships and torp's. Hence why they call it "Chaos". But go on with a friend and have your own private matches, you can blow up ships all day and not loose a isk. ------- Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes Guardian Enforcer, wrecking for 827.3 damage.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.14 23:11:00 - [9] The idea of someone wasting time to code a training simulator or arenas when all I ask for is the ability to sell/buy an item using the corp wallet makes me... They could offer full insurance for every single module and implant + ship insurance and people would still avoid PvP as you can't fit for mining and combat at the same time. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.10.14 23:15:00 - [10] Combat simulator is actually pretty much a requirement for this game. Whilst I agree there are more urgent issue it is a long-term required aspect if EVE wants to encourage PvP, especially if it wants to lessen the learning-clff that exists for new players.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.14 23:32:00 - [11] Quote: Combat simulator is actually pretty much a requirement for this game. Whilst I agree there are more urgent issue it is a long-term required aspect if EVE wants to encourage PvP, especially if it wants to lessen the learning-clff that exists for new players. At that point, I'd still agree with the people saying "Chaos". THere's a fight club. They have tons of modules. There are people there who'd gladly kill you. And you can help find bugs in the process. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.14 23:34:00 - [12] Edited by: Drethen Nerevitas on 14/10/2003 23:38:56 To remove the problem of people just using the sim to play the game, instead of going out and getting stuff: Why not just use what you have? You have stuff in your hangar. When you activate the training simulator, you do so with: The ship you currently have active. The modules equipped to that ship, and any items in cargo bay and drone bay. Any skills you currently have trained. So if I had a Moa kitted for combat, and activated the sim while it was my active ship, I would enter the sim in my Moa (And yes, I do realise I am saying sim...I'm trying to ignore that). However, if I didn't have an Armageddon, I couldn't sim in one. Simple. Edit (just for you Jash ): I'll say again. Most people don't know how to use the test server. Many more simply cannot repeatedly download numerous patches every day to keep up to date. Even more just don't want to, due to various reasons from it being out of date, the bugs, etc. I myself originally thought Chaos was the dev server where only devs could go to test things (). In addition, it would make to-the-death in-corp tournaments a LOT more feasible. I know it would take a chunk out of the devs time. But it would introduce a lot more PvPers, and prepare others yet further. _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.14 23:44:00 - [13] Quote: Edited by: Drethen Nerevitas on 14/10/2003 23:38:56 To remove the problem of people just using the sim to play the game, instead of going out and getting stuff: Why not just use what you have? You have stuff in your hangar. When you activate the training simulator, you do so with: The ship you currently have active. The modules equipped to that ship, and any items in cargo bay and drone bay. Any skills you currently have trained. So if I had a Moa kitted for combat, and activated the sim while it was my active ship, I would enter the sim in my Moa (And yes, I do realise I am saying sim...I'm trying to ignore that). However, if I didn't have an Armageddon, I couldn't sim in one. Simple. Edit (just for you Jash ): I'll say again. Most people don't know how to use the test server. Many more simply cannot repeatedly download numerous patches every day to keep up to date. Even more just don't want to, due to various reasons from it being out of date, the bugs, etc. I myself originally thought Chaos was the dev server where only devs could go to test things (). In addition, it would make to-the-death in-corp tournaments a LOT more feasible. I know it would take a chunk out of the devs time. But it would introduce a lot more PvPers, and prepare others yet further. 1st step to removing PvP from the game completely. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.15 00:15:00 - [14] Edited by: Drethen Nerevitas on 15/10/2003 00:42:05 Only if you let it run unchecked. You can insert all sorts of ways to stop that from happening, from isk requirement to use the sim to not being able to train skills. And...errr...not giving in to the sudden increase of furcovered strangers walking into the CCP HQ asking for bigger, better training arenas . _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Inflatable Teen	Posted - 2003.10.15 00:17:00 - [15] Test server... "Chaos" Join any fight club there free stuff free ships free skills free love
IZON	Posted - 2003.10.15 00:26:00 - [16] Good call, they had one in Jumpgate if I recall and it worked out pretty well. You could fly 'any' ship and test all weapons, and hone your skills for that fateful day when you had to use them for real. But I wouldn't trust ccp to be able to pull off something like that, it would create way too much fun and for sure it would be buggy as hell, plus some wise nut would find an exploit and transfer it to tranquility. "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
IZON	Posted - 2003.10.15 00:29:00 - [17] Not enough people use Chaos for it to be set up over there, it has to be 'in game' on the tranquilty server and be accessible from any station that the pilot is docked at. putting it on choas would be the death of it. "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.15 00:30:00 - [18] Edited by: Drethen Nerevitas on 15/10/2003 00:31:11 People posting in the thread should read it before posting. Thankyou. I've already listed why Chaos is out of the window for most people. Edit: That's not at you Izon . _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Beringe	Posted - 2003.10.15 00:36:00 - [19] Train in frigates! And that is only if you want "lethal" training...I've held at least 3 training sessions with my corpmates in safe space, just testing modules and maneuvers. Recommend frequent testing of this kind for anyone who is going to use EW. In my experience, you can't beat actual combat experience. With training, you may get the feel of how lag works, and some rudimentary tactics, but nothing short of being in sheer panic about losing your BS in real combat will prepare you for it. ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead." "No, it's none of your business."
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.15 00:42:00 - [20] Beringe, I would have thought the lag in the sim would be exactly the same, considering it's pretty much the same except your ship isn't lost permanently (only in the sim till you exit). And again; for a lot of people it's not practical to find a quiet place to go and test things. This is a good way of introducing people to PvP. _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Beringe	Posted - 2003.10.15 00:49:00 - [21] Maybe. But my point was that a training area should probably not be high on the developer's priority list. :shrug: ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead." "No, it's none of your business."
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.15 00:52:00 - [22] Depends. If they want more PvP, this is a good way to introduce it. At no point did I say it should override more pressing concerns (Bugs...platforms...). It's a good idea, imho. Remember a lot of people don't explore Eve to the entirity simply because it's too much hassle. _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.15 00:59:00 - [23] Edited by: Jash Illian on 15/10/2003 01:00:39 Quote: Maybe. But my point was that a training area should probably not be high on the developer's priority list. :shrug: I'd say an expansion pack would be a higher priority than a training area. My feeling is this: The furbearing inhabitants of the universe would use such a thing as an excuses to eliminate all non-corp PvP. Call me paranoid but given the silly suggestions from some of them to remove any justification for pirating, I can easily see them saying "They have an arena! Pirates can fight there all they want! Remove non-consentual attacks!" Anyone that can suggest with a straight face travelling for an hour to hunt a single mining party in the hopes to loot their lasers and expanders while blockading a system will have 10-20 undefended industrials with cargo come to you is fully capable of silliness on that order. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Valeria	Posted - 2003.10.15 01:02:00 - [24] It'd be cool, but only if you were limited to ships/modules you already own, IMO. Stations could offer a "combat simulator" service and whatever ships and modules you bring there would be avalible to use in the simulator. And to fight a player/players, they'd have to be in the same station. There could be a lobby where you could setup teams and the like. There would have to be limits or else the rest of the game would be overtaken by the simulated simulator. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.10.15 02:19:00 - [25] Well simply allowing a consensual duel would actually solve most of the problems/issues. Probably too simple though.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.15 02:29:00 - [26] Quote: Well simply allowing a consensual duel would actually solve most of the problems/issues. Probably too simple though. Gang I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2003.10.15 02:51:00 - [27] Had an idea earlier in beta that involved ships going to "training mode". Training mode would be sorta like a 2nd level of fighting in EvE where all commands are done as normal but the weapons actually don¦t fire. You also wouldn¦t get any weapon effects, only indication of you hitting your enemy would be the log. You can only attack other ships if they are in training mode aswell, but ships that are in training mode can be attacked by others that don¦t have training mode enabled. I thought of this because IMO that would be much more "realistic". Just look at the army, they also do these kinds of trainings. The possibility of being attacked while in trianing mode would add some spice to it and from what I know such a system would be easer to implement. Anyways I don¦t think you¦ll ever have any simulators in EvE and to be honest I don¦t think that¦s a bad thing. Having an evironment where you can¦t really lose would be the death for real PvP IMO. Mai's Idealog
Bjorn Nilfheim	Posted - 2003.10.15 03:14:00 - [28] Quote: Quote: Well simply allowing a consensual duel would actually solve most of the problems/issues. Probably too simple though. Gang the problem with using gangs for consented duels is the gang leadership skills. i don't really want my oppenent getting the speed and shield bonus that i trained for. Admiral of the Forsaken Fleets Pillar of the Fallen Emperor
Sarae	Posted - 2003.10.15 03:49:00 - [29] When DAoC introduced the battleground (esentially risk-free arenas) they quickly became one of the most popular parts of the game. I suspect the same thing would happen in Eve. Instead of "arena" though, I'd rather see something like a "simulator", a big video game that we could take part in without risking ships.
EvilEric	Posted - 2003.10.15 07:02:00 - [30] Non-lethal, non-damage training mode or training simulators... Both are a good idea. The easiest to code would be the training mode. You wouldn't need to code areanas and have a big button on the GUI to turn it off if you are interrupeted. You could still spar/train WITHOUT losing that presious battleship or even taking damage. I think soon after this ppl would soon realise that battleship pvp is not about who has the biggest guns but who has the greatest tactics. I think this would be a boon to fleet combat too as a corp could train together without spending isk on ammo (I'm thinking of torps/heavy cruise here) and try new tactics in gang mode. Train Hard, Fight Easy.
Soul Reaver	Posted - 2003.10.15 08:00:00 - [31] Ha Ha Learning Cliff Morkt! :) let me relate a tale of Souls early days and his learning cliff. So I am in my ibis and being very gung ho I am venturing in 0.0 space ha ha. God I knew nothing and was just playing. I didnt even know how to target a gun at this point. Anyway I warp to a gate and there we have some blood raiders that locked me up. So I warped away thinking they were, get this REAL players!!! Yes I am sad to admit it but I thought NPC blood raiders were a corp of real players at the time. So I thought ok Ill wait a bit and they will go away and I can jump out! I ended up waiting over an hour LOL before I could head back into safe space. All the time thinking they were a corp that were trying to find me LOL. Why am I admitting this LOL I must be mad it will tarnish my reputation forever :) But I know all about new player learning cliffs. When I joned the CUlt my rep was for losing ships as I thought I could attack 4 or 5 other ships at the same time! man did I lose some MOAS ROFL. Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants Currently chasing Lianhaun
IcemansMiner	Posted - 2003.10.16 07:17:00 - [32] That SOul has got to be worth a darwin Award ha ha ha..
Aelius	Posted - 2003.10.16 09:08:00 - [33] Use the system in startrek. Introduce a new button saying "simulated combat" that way you can shoot a corp fellow without the risk of destroing him. The normal UI would be replaced by a simulated one. When one of the ships has been simulated destroyed the normal ui would appear and the simulation would end. Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station
Valeria	Posted - 2003.10.16 11:02:00 - [34] Quote: Gang Have you tried this? I have and I took quite a nice security hit frigate-dueling. Same corp, yes. Same gang, big no-no. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Shaelin Corpius	Posted - 2003.10.16 11:27:00 - [35] Ok, well for now there is no combat simulator, which would be a nice feature for ppl who don't have corps, or at least a medium sized corps. Quick Fix Solution....Since PvP can either last a little while, of be done in 0.2 seconds practice heavy combat with your corpmates. Just remember, don't forget how to turn your weapons off. My Corpmates and I have been doing this since we started playing, warp to the sun to test weapons, and practice scenerios that really happen in the game i.e..jumpin point camping battle tactics. This is about the best training you can get for PvP without actually fighting other corps. You need to be very careful at first so as to learn what your ship(s) can handle in combat. This is so effective for learning how to counteract EW. But heres the kicker, if you mess up, and lose a nice BS in friendly practice combat, it really blows goats, and you get really ****ed at the guy who just had to get that last 500 damage on you and couldn't turn off his damn lasers.........(its ok crick I forgive you). So with this little bit of info, take it into consideration. You can become a great fighter doing this and go out in Eve and whoop up some booty.
Alfius Togra	Posted - 2003.10.16 15:33:00 - [36] im sorry but thats a ******* joke... eve is meant to be like real life, theres no simulator in life if u get wasted then thats just tough
Alfius Togra	Posted - 2003.10.16 15:35:00 - [37] i'll tell you whats another ******* joke .... replacing what i type with *s cos some pathetic muppet might get offended, c'mon even if we're all no grown ups we are cirtainly mature enough to let people have freedom of speach
Drutort	Posted - 2003.10.17 08:39:00 - [38] Edited by: Drutort on 17/10/2003 08:41:46 Aelius ehhh what heck your like my clone lol thats funny support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.10.17 08:50:00 - [39] "eve is meant to be like real life, theres no simulator in life if u get wasted then thats just tough" ... I could swear the real pilots in real life spend lots of time in real simulators learning how to cope with all different scenarios they might encounter... but that's just me. :s
McWatt	Posted - 2003.10.17 09:26:00 - [40] PvP is dead. lets start a simulator! brilliant idea! PK for EVEr
Aelius	Posted - 2003.10.17 11:57:00 - [41] Quote: ehhh what heck your like my clone lol thats funny Well it depends who started playing first Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station
Drutort	Posted - 2003.10.17 21:59:00 - [42] Quote: Quote: ehhh what heck your like my clone lol thats funny Well it depends who started playing first that depends in retail or in beta I did start the game 1 month after release, because i wanted to see how it would go hehe... then i joined but if talking about beta i got into it in beta 7 support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog

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