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codepic
Mithril Inc
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.30 14:48:00 -
[1]
It just beats me how many threads we got about the same issue while in my opinion it's all just too easy to solve:
Improve Camping Equipment
Deflection Field Emitter
- deployable
- drops any ship from warp 5km from the object the deployable was dropped next to
- deployable in low sec & 0.0
- larger Field Emitters might be used in 0.0 only (in flavors of 10km for medium & 15km for large which pretty much nerfs instas completely)
- consumes liquid ozone
- interdictors might be able to naturally generate these
- or alternatively, interdiction sphere launched by an interdictor would generate a deflection field in low sec and you could select in 0.0 which one you wanna launch...
voila, you can defend your area without touching bookmarks at all
Reduce the server load and dreaded management issues related to bookmarks dramatically
Corporate Bookmarks
CEO & Directors could maintain a set of bookmarks. Each shared bookmark folder would have permissions & roles. So we could determine whos got the permissions to view which bookmarks.
Example:
Ceo creates a new corporate bookmark folder
- He gives every corp member the permission to view (not edit) the bookmarks
- He gives directors the permission to edit the bookmarks too
- He drags a regional G2G set into the folder
BOOM: Every member has the gate to gate set visible in their people and places
Decreased Server Load With Corporate Bookmarks
As everyone will be using single instance rather than personal copy of the bookmarks, this leads to people deleting a lot of personal copies as corp can provide them sets... Bookmarks need to be queried from the server any way but with this solution, there's be just a fraction of the bookmarks that currently exist because of the dreaded personal copies...
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Evelgrivion
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Posted - 2006.08.30 15:29:00 -
[2]
What he says: I have a solution to instas that will improve server load balancing
What he wants: GANK!!!!!!!!11111111111111ONEONEONEONELOLOLOLOLOLOL
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codepic
Mithril Inc
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:03:00 -
[3]
The Deflection Shield Emitter, if allowed in low-sec, would also allow CCP to let people to warp within 0km from gates nerfing Gate-to-Gate sets completely, leading people to delete them (to speed up loading ppl&places) and only the personal bookmarks, like safespots & for cans etc.. would remain...
This would get us rid of loads and loads of bookmarks at once and remove the need for ridiculous "5 bookmarks at a time" copying restriction which is currently under planning...
And people could defend their space...
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Taedrin
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:25:00 -
[4]
???
So you are essentially suggesting something to the effect of:
mobile small warp disruptor i
mobile medium warp disruptor i
mobile large warp disruptor i
To help people camp gates? I'm sorry if I'm missing something, as I've never used these, and don't even know if they work properly (I never operate <.5 sec space) And I thought that gate campers already used interdiction spheres to effectively camp gates?
As for the Corporate Bookmarks idea, that's OK by me.
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codepic
Mithril Inc
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.30 16:41:00 -
[5]
Mobile warp disruptors don't work in low sec...
Here's the bottom line of the problem:
- People don't like instas because it makes regions hard to secure
- Nobody likes bookmarks because of the dreaded management & server load they create
- People need instas to travel fast
And the solutions:
- Deflection Field Emitter would improve the ability of defending a region while not being too effective for low sec (Note: It wouldn't disable the access to the gate or disable ability to warp, just drop you 5km from gate so you need to approach it)
- Corporate bookmarks would fix the management issues
- Warping to 0km would allow normally fast travel times while rendering most of the current bookmarks unnecessary
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.08.30 21:43:00 -
[6]
Well put.
The deflector, used in empire, would be a mild inconvenience to most and a tactical tool against valid war targets. I think it would become popular in 0.0 as well. I'd say have it stop warps that are heading toward it, just like a conventional warp bubble does, but not prevent warping from within it, so players coming through the gate in the other direction are not disrupted at all.
Corporate BM collections for sniper vantagepoints, tactical scan locations, safespots, POSes and secure caches would allow a relatively small number of individual bookmarks to serve an entire military operation.
With the deflector made available with a low skill threshold, the 0km warp would not have any real impact on tactical gameplay, and so it could be implemented without difficulty.
As for autopilot, I think a 10km minimum warp for that would be appropriate, to effect a blanket reduction in travel time.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.30 22:14:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: codepic
Mobile warp disruptors don't work in low sec...
So? 0km manual warp, add a new bubble which works against war enemies in Empire.
//Maya |
Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:55:00 -
[8]
Actually, Maya, his warp deflection bubble is better than a war-target-only warp bubble, which reeks of the "magic pixie dust" you're always so venomously against.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:40:00 -
[9]
No, it's not. It's targeted against a precise, known status. It's really NOT hard to believe that a bubble could be made to affect only war targets (spinning up to full power only when a war enemy was landing) - you can SEE them as they drop out of warp!
"Deflection", globally and with no penalties, is waay too powerful.
//Maya |
Kyuzo
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
Actually, Maya, his warp deflection bubble is better than a war-target-only warp bubble, which reeks of the "magic pixie dust" you're always so venomously against.
Maya seems to be venomously against alot of things ive noticed related with instas and other new PvP related features...
she definately seems to know better then all of us... and seems to understand know whats best for EVE more then the developers and all of the players... 
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:55:00 -
[11]
There's no venom. People read things into my posts which are not there.
And if you post something and can't defend the idea against basic criticism, then why does it deserve a look from the devs? If you CAN - and some people can, consistantly, j0sephine first among them then I admit I change my mind.
//Maya |
codepic
Mithril Inc
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.31 02:02:00 -
[12]
Edited by: codepic on 31/08/2006 02:03:25
Originally by: Maya Rkell
bubble could be made to affect only war targets
And allow noob corp alts or your enemy enter with corp switching or allow your enemys merc corp or anyone with a little more brains than an average amoeba pass through..
I think not... 5km isn't a distance at all to go through if you've fitted your ship right and be prepared.
And let's face it, low sec IS low sec. "Low Sec" as it is, means low security. Not a kindergarden where noobs hurdle by with shuttles waving to gate-camps...
A Deflection Field is a very mild version of a warp bubble and fits very well in low sec.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.31 02:16:00 -
[13]
codepic, it's a FIRST PASS. What the bare minimum is, and can be done in a week.
5km is dead to snipers in even mild lag.
And yes, LOW security. Not NO security. Someone pushing stuff off gates should be gategunned.
//Maya |
codepic
Mithril Inc
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.31 03:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
5km is dead to snipers in even mild lag.
And yes, LOW security. Not NO security. Someone pushing stuff off gates should be gategunned.
5km isn't dead to snipers.. Unless with stupid fittings, nervousness, no player skills etc added to the stew... Hey, we don't need stupid features in the game to avoid people dying from stupidity!
Admitted, haulers will pop like corn, but they already do so with snipers anyway so no big deal... If you are stupid enough to haul through low sec a hauler without any kind of intel knowing deflection fields exist, you're asking to be popped... Otherwise use a ship that can tank for the magical 5km (a cruiser)
There IS security. Gate-sentries WILL shoot anyone initiating aggro against anyone (not in war) and this is NOT about pushing something away from the gates. This is just slowing the approaching ship down before the gate without bumping it back...
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Kyuzo
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Posted - 2006.08.31 04:11:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Kyuzo on 31/08/2006 04:12:30
Originally by: Maya Rkell
There's no venom. People read things into my posts which are not there.
And if you post something and can't defend the idea against basic criticism, then why does it deserve a look from the devs? If you CAN - and some people can, consistantly, j0sephine first among them then I admit I change my mind.
your points are very crude and straight to the point.. and do point out true problems 'most of the time'..... but it only takes in a direct action-reaction problem... not thinking any further...
... this is generally speaking.. your replies are almost on every thread regarding a particular topic so everyone who reads these forums is aware of your forum warrior activities for your fight to keep insta type mechanics... and against PvP....
your delivery is very crude and not always correct... your quick to point out problems.. but you rarely try to point out solutions... you find flaws in peoples suggestions which is useful ... but in such a manner that you try to render these suggestions useless .... part of being critical is also thinking constructively... and formulating ways of making the idea feasible... in your own eyes...
but you rarely try to constructively critique and you attempt to stifle most suggestion threads you post in ...
their is no problem in bashing a bad idea... but alot of the suggestions you post against are actually decent... or atleast contribute good conceptual ideas that might not have been considered before...
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ian666
Minmatar
Turbulent
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Posted - 2006.09.01 11:15:00 -
[16]
/Signed
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TheBelgarion
Caldari
Kinetic Vector
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.01 12:46:00 -
[17]
with this idea that difference would it make to remove GateBM completely and simply allow 0km warp`?
the one diff i could think of are some noob who dont have empire BM set yet - and i heard BM Copy carebears crying .. but i think they are rich enough by now ... and should get to serious business - mining veldspar 
--------------------------------------------
upgrade to Combat Log - additional Information |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.01 12:59:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
No, it's not. It's targeted against a precise, known status. It's really NOT hard to believe that a bubble could be made to affect only war targets (spinning up to full power only when a war enemy was landing) - you can SEE them as they drop out of warp!
Well well.. now what if two ships - a war target and a non war target arrive at the same time?
The war target gets caught and the other one doesn't? In this case, Maya, your reasoning is as flawed as those you're regularly opposing. Magic pixie dust..
________________________
-Don't try to enforce your opinion by usage of multiple exclamation marks, question marks, CAPS or swear words. It doesn't work- |
MaKaVeLi DaDoN
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.01 13:19:00 -
[19]
Jump to 0km at high sec. Jump to 5km in 0.1-04.
I can see that the instas are problem for some and blessing for others.
But the database cluttering effect us all.
Why not introduce shill, which effects the warping range?
Higher level, closer warping. No need of instas anymore.
Make the skill rank 3 and with high prerequisites in Navigation and Science, than clear the bookmarks around gates/stations/planets and so on.
Or add some equipment which gives this effect "Align computer" or something. Maybe in conjunction with the skill above.
Also some device that prevents closer warps also can be introduced.
This way the both side shall be happy.
The people who hate the slow moving of industrials and so on can do their job faster, and the campers can deploy this devices to prevent insta jumps.
Something like the warp scrambling. The campers try to prevent you to insta, you put a lot of "stabilizers" and training the skill high so you can try insta.
Maybe event "Alliance pass" or something, which allows you to insta in alliance space of they trust you. The alliance can give the passes to which ever they want.
These passes should be made non sellable once acquired (Implants anyone?)
Or maybe sellable at the black market?
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Kittamaru
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Posted - 2006.09.01 19:55:00 -
[20]
easy solution to let empire based warp bubbles affect only war targets:
each ship's warp drive has it's own specific subspace signature. Thus, the warp bubble would detect the warp signature of an incoming ship. Anything deemed hostile (under 0 standing) would be affected. Anything neutral or above would be left alone.
This also makes bubbles a cool alternative way to protect trade routes- set a bubble every so many gates and use it as a way to clean the trader from persuing hostiles!
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Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2006.09.01 20:54:00 -
[21]
The more I see the concept of a 'selective' warp bubble, the more interesting it seems at an item on its own. I can think of many fun uses for one, and some other folks here have put up great ideas for using it too.
But combining that with a 'warp to 0' as a solution to the bookmark issue, I just see too many possible problems with that. The current situation with instas basically requires gate camps with warp bubbles in 0.0 space if you want to force a fight with somebody. Without gate camps, and warp bubbles, a target that gets into warp is basically a target that can get out of the system. Warp bubbles make this an even more static situation, because it takes a few minutes to get into position and anchor them. PvP has lost its fluidity already, I'd hate to see life reduced to station camps even more than it already is. It promotes blobwars, overwhelming ganks, and reduces the possibility of fun skirmishes.
They are also issues of cost. A small warp bubble normally runs at about 6-7mil right now, and a medium at 20 or so in the regions I operate. Though I know they go for cheaper in some areas. For newer players that is a steep price to pay in order to conduct PvP combat if they are already having issues getting an 5mil isk cruiser. And if you make bubbles more important, as well as eligible to anchor in empire space, that price will go up. This further pushes lower isk players out of pvp combat. Interdictors are just another elite-only option. Having to drag a T2 ship around just to have ANY fight is a bit out of reach for many small corps already having to pay isk just to have the war in the first place. They need an inexpensive way to get into fights they want, as much as they need a way to get away from fights they don't.
Another problem I can forsee is that, for instance, you are in an empire corp that is currently at war. You know the enemy always comes through a certain gate, so you want to put up your selective warp bubble You go to the gate, and somebody you don't know has one there already. They aren't in you alliance and are at war with somebody not hostile to you. You can't anchor things within a certain distance of each other, so you're just out of luck. Try again some other time, because you can't fight today. No bubble, and they all are warping to 0, so you're ONLY chance is to maybe catch them when they uncloak after a jump or when they undock.
And leaving instas alone, to be honest it is a kludy system as it is. Even if you don't change how they effect game play, its still a goof system to operate. No matter what the final result is, I would like to see something better integrated into the functionality of playing the game that doesn't involve deciphering obscure little descriptions and digging 3 levels into a menu.
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codepic
Mithril Inc
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.02 08:48:00 -
[22]
I don't think selective bubbles would work. At least not if it requires a war dec. Do not promote declaration of war just to be able to set up a gate camp. It's already way too easy for any corp to dec war on any other corp and leave the fees unpaid...
And you know, war decs have other significant effects on corporate logistics which reaches also high sec.
Do not talk about warp bubbles as I don't think they should be EVER introduced in low sec.
What I proposed, was a Deflection Field Emitter which isn't selective, doesn't require war dec, doesn't cause aggro, doesn't suck in (like warp bubbles do), just slows down the approaching ship 5km before the gate. Just like the force field in POSes.
Maybe if you want a believable storyline behind this, the Deflection Field Emitter is a hacking device for the gate to launch it's natural self-protection systems. This way, when successfully hacked, it's quite obvious that there's no CONCORD response.
If this appears later on too aggressive for low sec, maybe CONCORD adds hacking detection methods into the stargates which when triggered, will cause aggro, deflection will fail etc.. funky effects...
Please share any ideas you get.
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