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Why fantasy MMORPGs suck.

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Sigurd Ross	Posted - 2006.09.01 07:53:00 - [1] Before you flame me, hear me out, please. - First off, virtually no fantasy MMO out there is true to its setting, letting EQesque metagame cliches creep in. What I mean are "spawns," "camps," "corpse runs" and other anomalies that are obviously not explained in the game's fiction, and are antithetical to the setting. - Second, you never really feel heroic. Anything "epic" that you do requires about fourty other people, all "raiding" some monsters house, and ganging on it till it falls over. - Third, the special effects are silly. What cinematic fantasy has glowing green particle effects with healing spells, or healing spells to begin with? Know how stupid it'd be in the context of a fantasy for some guy to be "healed" faster than a sword in his guts could kill him, over and over again? - Fourth, the "level" "race" "class" system is very tired, boring, and cliche. D+D never intended "level" to be anything more than a reward for continued play of the same character in a tabletop setting, not a way to measure epeens or determine who "wins" before a battle starts. Anyone wanna add more?
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.09.01 07:55:00 - [2] Elves. I think it's been said before, but if you're seen one metrosexual, arrogant, prissy angsty "roleplayer" elf with a half-demon bloodline and Sephrioth-wannabe hair, you've seen em all.
Gyn Seng	Posted - 2006.09.01 07:59:00 - [3] Originally by: Benefactor Elves. I think it's been said before, but if you're seen one metrosexual, arrogant, prissy angsty "roleplayer" elf with a half-demon bloodline and Sephrioth-wannabe hair, you've seen em all.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:00:00 - [4] Elves ! They all suck BECAUSE THEY HAVE ELVES And I agree with most of your points lol, But the day a Warhammer 40k DECENT MMPORG / RPG comes out im bloody buying it! And those Eldar prats look remarkably like elves to me Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:02:00 - [5] Uhm that is why they are called fantasy MORON. what ever list you come up with a similar one could be created for eve, and how suddenly the same dam ship you seen and killed a zillion time is uber because some officer or commander is tagged for the name... Heck WTf is with names floating in space above your ship? I hope you get my drift it is personal preference, some like fanstasy based some like sci-fi based, which is really fantasy in space.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:12:00 - [6] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Uhm that is why they are called fantasy MORON. Heck WTf is with names floating in space above your ship? . OMG, What you mean like numbers and words and stuff showing up... but they shouldn't really be there ? No ***** wai Kinda like this ? 20,000 years into the future prehaps a Pod pilot has a slightly more advanced Heads up display than a current day f16.... who knows As to being able to see your ship from a 3rd prospective from within your POD, Urrr advanced computery wizadry, little drone with a camera ? Or in the Minmatar's case a 20th century video camera hanging from the back of the ship on a piece of string Who knows.... Alliaanna** DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Reksal Holiau Minmatar The Money Consortium	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:12:00 - [7] I got 2! 1) Warp into massive planets 2) A shuttle bumped my Raven LoL. I think Eve share the same list as any other games out there. This goes the same for movies. How many things we can picked up from the latest and the greatest movies?
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Uhm that is why they are called fantasy MORON. what ever list you come up with a similar one could be created for eve, and how suddenly the same dam ship you seen and killed a zillion time is uber because some officer or commander is tagged for the name... Heck WTf is with names floating in space above your ship? I hope you get my drift it is personal preference, some like fanstasy based some like sci-fi based, which is really fantasy in space. I'm glad WoW's target audience chimed in. Um, fantasy (as in, GOOD, original fantasy) doesn't have to include elves or any of that crap. But since you don't really read any of those kind of novels, I'll spare you an exhaustive list. Wheel of Time is a good start, and a fine example of a fantasy setting without Blizzard's tired, soulless fantasy cliches.
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Reksal Holiau I got 2! 1) Warp into massive planets 2) A shuttle bumped my Raven LoL. I think Eve share the same list as any other games out there. This goes the same for movies. How many things we can picked up from the latest and the greatest movies? Ah, but are we talking about EVE here? Did we imply EVE was perfect? Noooooooo.
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:14:00 - [10] Edited by: Benefactor on 01/09/2006 08:14:32 You know what? I think someone struck a nerve with Nanobotter. How DARE we make fun of his dark, brooding Sephiroth clone on a WoW roleplay server!
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Uhm that is why they are called fantasy MORON. I think you're confusing the word "fantasy" with the word "Everquest". It's understandable. The keys are like.. right next to each other. One thing I hate about the level system in fantasy games is that level is everything. It determines PvP before it starts when a level 10 guy can't even touch a level 20 guy. In eve, it'd be like battleships being automatically immune to cruisers and below. There aren't many MMOs out there with decent PVP systems. Eve is one of the ones that makes PvP really work. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Twilight Moon Minmatar eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Benefactor Originally by: Reksal Holiau I got 2! 1) Warp into massive planets 2) A shuttle bumped my Raven LoL. I think Eve share the same list as any other games out there. This goes the same for movies. How many things we can picked up from the latest and the greatest movies? Ah, but are we talking about EVE here? Did we imply EVE was perfect? Noooooooo. No, I think this was simply a cheap bash thread aimed at WoW. Given that it captivates over 50% of the MMORPG market I'd say that its somewhat unjustified. They must be doing something right to have that many subscribers. You're saying you want a MMORPG that is based basically on what it was like in the Dark Ages. Sounds woefully boring to me, having to sit in a hut that constitites for a hospital in those days, trying to recover from someone seperating 1/2 your gut from your body with a legnth of steel. you're lie there, watching your character in agony on screen, for a few weeks (providing he isnt dead already), seeing the wound getting infected, develop gangrene and die. Oh....and then you have to re-roll a new character, because its "unrealistic" to come back front the dead. No....I think a certain detachment from reality serves as a good thing in MMO's. ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Twilight Moon Originally by: Benefactor Originally by: Reksal Holiau I got 2! 1) Warp into massive planets 2) A shuttle bumped my Raven LoL. I think Eve share the same list as any other games out there. This goes the same for movies. How many things we can picked up from the latest and the greatest movies? Ah, but are we talking about EVE here? Did we imply EVE was perfect? Noooooooo. No, I think this was simply a cheap bash thread aimed at WoW. Given that it captivates over 50% of the MMORPG market I'd say that its somewhat unjustified. They must be doing something right to have that many subscribers. You're saying you want a MMORPG that is based basically on what it was like in the Dark Ages. Sounds woefully boring to me, having to sit in a hut that constitites for a hospital in those days, trying to recover from someone seperating 1/2 your gut from your body with a legnth of steel. you're lie there, watching your character in agony on screen, for a few weeks (providing he isnt dead already), seeing the wound getting infected, develop gangrene and die. Oh....and then you have to re-roll a new character, because its "unrealistic" to come back front the dead. No....I think a certain detachment from reality serves as a good thing in MMO's. I stopped reading that with the popularity statement. I suppose McDonald's is fine dining, pop music is the pinnacle of talent, and MySpace is the reason the Internet exists.
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Benefactor I stopped reading that with the popularity statement. I suppose McDonald's is fine dining, pop music is the pinnacle of talent, and MySpace is the reason the Internet exists. And who appointed you God, that your personal opinion is law and what millions of other people think has no bearing on anything? Popularity IS the only measure of quality for things like this. If you don't like it but 75% of the population does, then I'm afraid you're outvoted. Tough. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.09.01 08:37:00 - [15] Edited by: Benefactor on 01/09/2006 08:38:13 Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Benefactor I stopped reading that with the popularity statement. I suppose McDonald's is fine dining, pop music is the pinnacle of talent, and MySpace is the reason the Internet exists. And who appointed you God, that your personal opinion is law and what millions of other people think has no bearing on anything? Popularity IS the only measure of quality for things like this. If you don't like it but 75% of the population does, then I'm afraid you're outvoted. Tough. Um, that is probably the most ignorant thing I've read all day. Begging your pardon, popularity means nothing more than "more people play X." In WoW's case, I argue it's not a quality statement, but excellent PR, "OMG BLIZZARD" word of mouth that swamped over just about everyone I knew, and generally, whenever a WoWer I knew tried a new game, they placed their WoW biases on the game (WHAT LEV DO U PVP IN EVE?). Vicious cycle, that is. I'm glad fringe games like EvE exist, for those of us that look for more in a game than how many people jump on the bandwagon. Besides... did the OP mention WoW? Nooooo, plenty of fantasy games have the tiresome mechanics that he mentioned. But I guess the WoW fanboys have to come out of the woodwork to defend their baby. I just wish there was more good to say about WoW than "OMG 5 MILLION CAN'T BE WRONG!"
Twilight Moon Minmatar eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.01 09:12:00 - [16] Edited by: Twilight Moon on 01/09/2006 09:12:41 Originally by: Benefactor I stopped reading that with the popularity statement. I suppose McDonald's is fine dining, pop music is the pinnacle of talent, and MySpace is the reason the Internet exists. Where did I say that popularity makes WoW the pinnacle of MMO's? I didnt. Perhaps if you'd actually bothered to read the post, instead of just jumping to conclusions, we might be able to have a decent debate about this. ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.01 09:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Heck WTf is with names floating in space above your ship? The names are there because your pod puts them into your optic nerve. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.01 09:20:00 - [18] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Benefactor I stopped reading that with the popularity statement. I suppose McDonald's is fine dining, pop music is the pinnacle of talent, and MySpace is the reason the Internet exists. And who appointed you God, that your personal opinion is law and what millions of other people think has no bearing on anything? Popularity IS the only measure of quality for things like this. If you don't like it but 75% of the population does, then I'm afraid you're outvoted. Tough. So Britney Spears, Busted and Girls Aloud must all be real quality then. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Twilight Moon Minmatar eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.01 09:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Rodj Blake So Britney Spears, Busted and Girls Aloud must all be real quality then. Since when were Britney Spears, Busted and Girls Aloud classed as MMO's? ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.09.01 09:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Twilight Moon Originally by: Rodj Blake So Britney Spears, Busted and Girls Aloud must all be real quality then. Since when were Britney Spears, Busted and Girls Aloud classed as MMO's? I guess popularity exclusively matters to MMOs alone. Which makes absolutely no sense. Either the taste of 5 million people matters, or it doesn't. In my case, being in retail a few years clues you in to the intelligence of Average Joe and Average Jane, and so popularity means nothing to me. If anything, popular MMOs make me wary to try em. (I played WoW to the raid grind, so don't assume I didn't try it)
Twilight Moon Minmatar eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.01 09:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Sigurd Ross - Third, the special effects are silly. What cinematic fantasy has glowing green particle effects with healing spells, or healing spells to begin with? Know how stupid it'd be in the context of a fantasy for some guy to be "healed" faster than a sword in his guts could kill him, over and over again? Anyway...the point I was trying to make was that by trying to make an MMO more "lifelike" you would make it dull. I dont want to get killed by getting one sword in the gut. I want to re-spawn, not re-roll on death. If you can think of a better means of going about it then by all means, let us know. As for "shiny green healing"....you ever seen an Armour Repairer in EVE in action? It needs to be this way. If it were to be realistic Healing/Repairing, I'd have to sit in a space station repair yard for a few months while little men in spacesuits welded shiny new armour plating to my hull. ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Benefactor	Posted - 2006.09.01 09:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Twilight Moon Originally by: Sigurd Ross - Third, the special effects are silly. What cinematic fantasy has glowing green particle effects with healing spells, or healing spells to begin with? Know how stupid it'd be in the context of a fantasy for some guy to be "healed" faster than a sword in his guts could kill him, over and over again? Anyway...the point I was trying to make was that by trying to make an MMO more "lifelike" you would make it dull. I dont want to get killed by getting one sword in the gut. I want to re-spawn, not re-roll on death. If you can think of a better means of going about it then by all means, let us know. As for "shiny green healing"....you ever seen an Armour Repairer in EVE in action? It needs to be this way. If it were to be realistic Healing/Repairing, I'd have to sit in a space station repair yard for a few months while little men in spacesuits welded shiny new armour plating to my hull. Yes, but glowy special effects are all over sci-fi. Ever see heal0rs in fantasy cinema?
Melkor Bloodaxe Minmatar LEGI0N	Posted - 2006.09.01 09:42:00 - [23] To the OP. The reason most fantasy MMO's suck is because the majority of them are all the same: Dwarves, Elves, tree-rich environment, strange looking monsters, etc. You've seen one, you've seen most of them. In most cases however, it's the majority of the people who rule. Sad, but true. ____ "Since when is justified killing more fun than random killing?" -HippoKing- TEAM MINMATAR - In Rust We Trust -
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2006.09.01 09:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Reksal Holiau 2) A shuttle bumped my Raven Yeah, those shuttles are evil. ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
Nyssa Dakalsai Cosmic Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.09.01 10:32:00 - [25] Bring me Warhammer 40K MMO, and i'll be happy.! FOR THE EMPEROR!
Lemming Wonder	Posted - 2006.09.01 10:57:00 - [26] Death to the False Emperor! That because in this day of age, there are currently lots of fantasy MMO out there. EQ2, Lineage2, Ragnarok Online, Maple Online, Dark and Light, WoW, Archlord, DAoC, Asheron Call, Seal Online, Runescape, etc. All of them with almost the same layout, human, orc, dwarf and elves... .. especially those Korean MMO which has elven fetish in it... PS: The Eldar in W40K are elves in space... but it's not going to stop me from playing W40K online tho.
Roxanna Kell Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.09.01 11:07:00 - [27] you guys complain too much, yet you still play all this games. it will take a lots of work to create real life again, wether past or future, you just can;'t. so if you want real fantasy hero action, picky up armor, sword and shield, and head over to chelsea to fight their fans, kill their manager he drops officer loot.
Sean Dillon Caldari Shadows of the Dead Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.09.01 11:16:00 - [28] When U played one fantasy mmorpg u have played them all. There are some unique, but hard to find. I am sorta looking at Pirates of the burning sea, now that can be something original and fun to play actualy.
Zaldiri Caldari Automated Industries	Posted - 2006.09.01 12:12:00 - [29] To have good fantasy you have to have a little originality, at least a newish take on the standard elf ridden D&D thing. Have a look at the elder scrolls games for example. ----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
XenoPagan	Posted - 2006.09.01 12:27:00 - [30] At some point in my life I had enough of fantasy RPG's too. Lots of people like them though so I don't see the problem. Of course I'd love to see that Blizzard would have made World of Starcraft instead of Warcraft, but hey... marketing rules e'm all. Fantasy theme is easier-going than sci-fi universe. Of course sci-fi CAN have elves in thongs too but... well, let's hope they stay in fantasy universe :p More thongs = more kiddies But! I know that when Warhammer Online comes out, I'm going to try it.

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