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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.16 18:45:00 -
[121]
Rubbish.
Total rubbish.
You are assuming that there will never be any chance of rebuttal or that ALL rebutal should be in the same article or news snippet. (Patently untrue, both for practical reasons and synchronicity reasons)
You are doing nothing now but splitting hairs in your own favour and being intentionally obstreperous.
I think you also know this to be true.
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Valkyrium Larr
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Posted - 2003.10.16 18:47:00 -
[122]
 Quote:
(Edit - I wasn't aware that "son" was an insult..
Not an insult, but it is somewhat demeaning. And of course you did not learn that today did you? 
Quote:
As to EG, you still cant see it can you? They printed what CA think, not what they think... and then they said it wasn't even verifiable. This really is a difficult concept for you isnt it? Division between "I " "We" "You" and "Them". Remarkable.)
What were you saying on your first post about pushing your viewpoints on people? Let's see...
Quote:
When people start working so hard to try to prove "thier" view is the only one it gives me serious cause to question their actions and motives.
Well, it seems to me you need to start eating some of your own junk food Mr. Drak.
All pun intended...  |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.16 18:50:00 -
[123]
/em sighs
I made a bet that you would try to turn the subject at this point.
Sad to see I was right. 
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Stained
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Posted - 2003.10.16 18:54:00 -
[124]
(ooc) Just FYI: This isn't the longest post ever made. The longest post ever made was the Stroy chronicals made by HEllGremlin(ahhh the good old days.)
___________________________________________________________________
Hair is Over-rated.
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Zaphod Robotnik
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Posted - 2003.10.16 19:00:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Zaphod Robotnik on 16/10/2003 19:03:39
Quote:
nothing neutral about it. And that's what apparently you fail to "grasp".
EVE Guardian posts it's news in a rolling format - I would, as a reader, expect any rebuttal from CFS to appear in a later article.
However, from reading articles so far on EG, things seem fairly well balanced - for pro-CFS we have "CA Overextended", "Holding the line - CFS at War", and "Strenuous denials from CFS Navy".
Also, I am now, rereading the articles, having trouble finding any article that is anti-CFS. There isn't any. Yes, they claim that the CFS is not highly skilled at PvP, but nowhere does it even attempt to make out that either side is "right" or "wrong".
Seems fairly unbiased to me.
Also, I'd be interested in what moves are currently afoot to restabilise the CFS Regions beyond conflict. Seeing how my well meant suggestions have been blatantly ignored 
--
Zaphod "Zaprobo" Robotnik
President, Royal Communication Department
http://eve.britishspacecorps.co.uk/http://eve.britishspacecorps |
Moralis
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Posted - 2003.10.16 19:07:00 -
[126]
Quote:
Well, it seems to me you need to start eating some of your own junk food Mr. Drak.
Seems to me like you got totally pwned Valkyrium and you're trying to change the subject.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.10.16 19:35:00 -
[127]
As an aside, I think I would consider an attempt to muzzle and defang the free press as something of a valid Casus Beli myself. Morkt is entirely right here on the technicalities of news reporting and linear sequential rebuttle.
If any corp or alliance has rights to edit or limit the scope of an external article before publication then the concept of "free press" is a nonsense and we are back in the realm of state-censorship and Ragnar being asked questions from his own imagination at a fictious press conference.
Its not a difficult concept to grasp.
Honestly, this leaves me wondering who these Zitec geezers actually are?
Two posters, both apparently idiots.
Can we have somebody sensible from Zitec to speak to?
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.10.16 19:36:00 -
[128]
Valkyrium,
Zaprobo from BSC is correct. EG does "ongoing" news. Who knows what they'll print tomorrow.
I find alot of comparisons to real life here. Like real politics you either "love it or hate it". Finding a common ground is often very difficult.
Lets see what develops as Zaprobo said.
Calladen
(PS - Zaprobo - if you could send me an evemail and clarify what you meant by "suggestions". I didn't see them and was wondering what I'd missed - thanks)
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Zaphod Robotnik
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Posted - 2003.10.16 19:59:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Zaphod Robotnik on 16/10/2003 20:00:55
I'd love to send an evemail, but am (alas) at work. My suggestions are on my post here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=38768&page=5#97
Nothing that a good bit of mediation can't resolve! 
--
Zaphod "Zaprobo" Robotnik
President, Royal Communication Department
http://eve.britishspacecorps.co.uk/http://eve.britishspacecorps |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.16 20:00:00 -
[130]
I think we can safely say that "things developed" already.
(I wonder what our mysterious Zitek friends will now slate myself and EG for? Blatant favouritism to the CFS? Bias towards the Press? Not having synchronous news reports? Too much salt on the Long-Limb Dip? I found a hair in the Hot-Sauce?)
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.16 20:06:00 -
[131]
It has to be said... surely the CA have no chance at all to "win" any war.... sure they might force a few victories and call it quits as "Military winners".. but they will never win a war agaisnt the CFS with their existing forces?
Unless I've seriously over-estimated the CFS forces and under-estiamted CA's?
Lets bear in mind that atmt he only way to win a War is to do waht Evolution/Xanadu/CoC did to the old Venal Alliance - bankrupt them over an extended seige.
You cant "seige" empire space...
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.16 20:40:00 -
[132]
(Ironic how the rabid anti-press mob suddenly have gone very quiet now)
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Supe
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Posted - 2003.10.16 20:49:00 -
[133]
We keep having people tell us about these so called acts of piracy that sinister commited so plz do tell us what acts of piracy we are guilty of and who commited such acts proir to your secret declaration of war against CA and the poding of Shinra indies.
They keep talkin about all this piracy being commited in there space but actual Sinister x pirates can't get into empire space yet so more likely then not it's them talkin out of there ass.
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Edward Preble
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Posted - 2003.10.16 21:15:00 -
[134]
I don't think there was a rabid anti-press mob. I think there were alot of CFS members exasperated with CA disinformation, with no where to throw it, because CA just tries to spin it. As such, some anger got thrown at EG. But I don't think you heard people seriously suggesting they couldn't print what they wanted to. I doubt Teister believes that--my guess is that is his annoyance is not being contacted for a CFS opinion on many of the stories or issues at hand.
And ironic that I haven't heard a response from you on my issues Mr. Drak.
Edward Preble
Coalition of Free Stars
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UnFriendly Fire
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Posted - 2003.10.16 22:11:00 -
[135]
Edited by: UnFriendly Fire on 16/10/2003 22:22:03
Edited by: UnFriendly Fire on 16/10/2003 22:17:34
Quote:
We keep having people tell us about these so called acts of piracy that sinister commited so plz do tell us what acts of piracy we are guilty of and who commited such acts proir to your secret declaration of war against CA and the poding of Shinra indies.
They keep talkin about all this piracy being commited in there space but actual Sinister x pirates can't get into empire space yet so more likely then not it's them talkin out of there ass.
Hey Supe:
This is straight from that anonymous CEO of a CA corp in an Eve Guardian article:
"Shira corp indy was loaded with minerals and making his way out of CFS space was fired on and destroyed. At that time a number of CFS pilots were hunting npc's and responded to his (Shira Indy) distress calls and engaged the aggressors."
So explain where it says we podded Shinra indies? Or explain why the indy in question had no clue what we were talking about when CFS messaged him about his death?
What antipress mob Morkt? 2 people are not a mob. Unless of course you interpret my post about wishing to have been able to provide rebuttal as slavering anti-eve guardian vitriol.
Ah well, this is pointless in the extreme, its fairly obvious we are not going to agree on the current events, so I'm dropping it.
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Kipkruide
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Posted - 2003.10.16 22:33:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Kipkruide on 16/10/2003 22:35:42
Edited by: Kipkruide on 16/10/2003 22:34:16
Yeah well, and , and .. know what i'm gonna say.
Absolutely nothing.
Hmm, now i'm probably gonna get flamed too,
on the upside i'm not plannig to read this again , ever, so go ahead, flame away
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.16 22:35:00 -
[137]
Quote:
I don't think there was a rabid anti-press mob. I think there were alot of CFS members exasperated with CA disinformation, with no where to throw it, because CA just tries to spin it. As such, some anger got thrown at EG. But I don't think you heard people seriously suggesting they couldn't print what they wanted to. I doubt Teister believes that--my guess is that is his annoyance is not being contacted for a CFS opinion on many of the stories or issues at hand.
And ironic that I haven't heard a response from you on my issues Mr. Drak.
So i imagined all the "they are trash talking tabloid journalists with no profesionalism who peddle lies and inuendo" - cool, for a moment i thought i was going mad with that summation of trash-talk CFS press-killers.
They were quite clear - EG was a tabloid of no repute and professionalism because they did't get Teister's reply on the CA letter to EG... its in blacn and white in this thread so not too difficult to see what they said and meant. (The fact that the neutrals here universally shot them down adding to the entire point...)
No irony needed Edward...thought I'd answered the "beligerent" bit already.
His first reply to mine was beligerent.. even he admits as much in his next post.
His response to EG appears to have been needlessly belligerent also ( We can take as much from their reaction alone)
Not sure whether you want me to go "dig-up some more dirt" on your Pres or.... what...?
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Asimir Kurdugal
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Posted - 2003.10.16 23:08:00 -
[138]
So the tally is up to four, and personally, I couldn't care less. Have fun with whatever justification you can muster up. But, you say you're past that, so there's only one thing left.
It just saddens me that now any act of retribution or self-defence can be spun off into a pirate action as long as a member of the CA is involved. Have it your way. We will see if the added weight of the CFS can acomplish what the SA/FA/CC could not. Keep the clones on standby.
________________________________________________
Moving again, comfort of the chase
Now and again, this my saving grace
Dead on the inside, I've got nothing to prove
Keep me alive and give me something to lose
I've been gone so long, but I will come back
I will come back for you |
Edward Preble
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Posted - 2003.10.16 23:46:00 -
[139]
Asimir, it's amazing. At first I thought you were a CFS member posting.
Your "acts of self-defense" involved shooting down miners and npc-hunters, or your "act of retribution" involved doing 100M+ damage to anyone you could get near, when you hadn't even lost a ship. If this were self-defense, why aren't we fighting in Curse?
As for Mr. Drak, I don't think we've seen evidence of a mob hating the tabloids. Certainly a few posters, but perhaps you're overly defensive because you helped bankroll the newspaper. (a worthy venture btw, even if I think you're surprisingly distoring this particular issue)
It was NOT because of some CFS inability to recognize the ability of a corp to change that conflict occured--ways to fairly do this were being debated, even though SINC members were still pirating, and reports of REDC pirates trickled in as well.
It was because these corporations ignored agreements made by CA, attacked CFS and non-CFS ships in the area, and completely refused to go through any sort of process or period for becoming non-KOS. Instead, we were told with force and threats and insults that we would simply take SINC and REDC's word that (in one of their leader's words) "we're not pirating at the moment" and should therefore be granted full immunity.
Teister's personality might have been abrasive to some (lord knows it's a thousand times better than the CA reps that insulted us, lied to us, cussed at us and threatened us) but good lord--CFS was the one handing out compensation when CA was attacking them. CFS was the one willing to grant extensions when CA forces decided to ignore aggreements signed asking them to leave our space. CFS came to the aid of SNRA ships, according to their reports, while CFS was lied to, threatend, attacked, provoked and badgered.
And let me repeat again, since it is amazing how few people seem to recognize this--CA invaded *our* space. (and again, the fact that their fleet materialized moments after they claim to have been "betrayed" (because the senate considered restricting our space) certainly suggests they were eager to attack all along.
You asked why we were at this war repeatedly, and ignored the obvious reason--we were invaded.
Edward Preble
Coalition of Free Stars
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.16 23:50:00 -
[140]
I fail to see anything suspicious about the ancient and steeped-in-tradition tactic of
"Oh! Look! I happen to have an invasion fleet in my back pocket even though we came to peace talks!"
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Asimir Kurdugal
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Posted - 2003.10.17 00:00:00 -
[141]
Quote:
Asimir, it's amazing. At first I thought you were a CFS member posting.
Your "acts of self-defense" involved shooting down miners and npc-hunters, or your "act of retribution" involved doing 100M+ damage to anyone you could get near, when you hadn't even lost a ship. If this were self-defense, why aren't we fighting in Curse?
Like I said, I'm not here to argue with you. I could provide a number of explanations for what occured, but we are past that point.
The line has been drawn.
________________________________________________
Moving again, comfort of the chase
Now and again, this my saving grace
Dead on the inside, I've got nothing to prove
Keep me alive and give me something to lose
I've been gone so long, but I will come back
I will come back for you |
Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.10.17 00:18:00 -
[142]
Asimir,
"It just saddens me that now any act of retribution or self-defence can be spun off into a pirate action as long as a member of the CA is involved. Have it your way. We will see if the added weight of the CFS can acomplish what the SA/FA/CC could not. Keep the clones on standby."
Have you read all the chatlogs here? What do you think? Do you see all was needed was for the CA pirate corps to stay out of CFS space?
There was no question about our charter. Pirates are KOS here. Period. What part of PIRATES DONT BELONG HERE don't you comprehend?
Read the logs, look at the timeline, they had DAYS to leave our space yet kept coming back. Why? Why didn't they just stay away? Look at Lallantes attitude and what she said "oh I'm neutral" like thats supposed to remove her from a KOS list. Its absured.
What do you call that if not provocation? Then when shots are fired and both sides claim the other did it who do you trust? The residents with a history of patience and respect for honest trade or a former pirate corp that isn't supposed to be there in the first place?
What possible excuse do you have for these continual incursions into our space DESPITE all the best efforts of Sarkos and crew? After all the agreements, the cooldown period and everything else they kept "appearing" in our space.
As for the Shinra indy incident I noticed a post here where Luke said he WAS NEVER ATTACKED! In the chatlogs its right there. Where is the evidence? The evemail about it and who was responsible. Again nothing but silence and more disinformation.
Its obvious you wanted a war from your own members post about being "bored" in another thread. Don't act so shocked when your called on it.
Calladen Nimitz
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Primer Xenius
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Posted - 2003.10.17 01:10:00 -
[143]
Morkt, the dicision for us on this issue is very simple. Sinister and their pirate friends have fired on our ships since day one. They fire on us anywhere in 0.0, in Curse and now parts of the CA alliance in their brief visit in JK-FIX.
In my humble opinion, the mistake here is that the CFS is even bothering to debate this issue in here. CA should not be welcomed in CFS space for the simple reason that they ARE pirates. Corps totally unrelated to the CFS lost ships to Shinra and co.
"we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
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Edward Preble
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Posted - 2003.10.17 01:11:00 -
[144]
As always Primer, if you have reports of any such activity, please let us know. We do care about the opinions of the corporations acting in our Protectorate, and if you're under fire, then we'd like to know (because such pirates are not welcome, CA or not, in our space).
Edward Preble
Coalition of Free Stars
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Valkyrium Larr
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Posted - 2003.10.17 01:16:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Valkyrium Larr on 17/10/2003 01:22:10
Wow so many people offended over my opinion... my, my.  I wonder how many more will come out of the woodwork. I guess you can't take a break for RL before people take it as carte blanche and try a few uncontested verbal jabs.
Well, I'm glad EG posted that new article. Otherwise it would have been overly difficult to counter the perception of them being unbiased. So definitely a step in the right direction, I'd say.
Now, to all you haters out there who seem to lack the capacity to indite any worthwhile response to my comments other than insults... bzzzzzt!
I'm done with this discussion. |
Primer Xenius
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Posted - 2003.10.17 01:21:00 -
[146]
Oh we do now.
and you have our support now (we have quite a few battleships there now since CA feels the need to shot anyone)
"we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
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Redge
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Posted - 2003.10.17 02:12:00 -
[147]
Quote:
Im sitting up here in Lonetrek listening to the CFS leadership preach about "waging justifiable war" and thinking.. I wonder how long before im banned from CFS space because I just dont agree with their leaders?
Don't bother to come here anymore. I've heard they podded CFS Members for speaking against what the CFs was doing.
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The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.10.17 02:31:00 -
[148]
Edited by: The Reclaimer on 17/10/2003 02:35:58
Look, we all know how we got in this situation. Teister is 16 years old and too immature to lead a bunch of good ppl. He is a snake I wonder how long until is Ragnar'd? Hopefully for CFS it is sooner rather than later. The fine ppl of CFS need to ask this question; Would you trust your Viper to your kids? Lets hope something can be worked out here before this becomes a blood feud.
Add: I read his reaction to the Eve-Guardian and I must say it conferms my beliefs. I can't believe how he acts and that you fine CFS members allow him to make your decisions. I really hope something can be done sooner rather than later.
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Kashre
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Posted - 2003.10.17 03:13:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Kashre on 17/10/2003 03:14:14
Quote:
Don't bother to come here anymore. I've heard they podded CFS Members for speaking against what the CFs was doing.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA! Wait, are you saying the CFS podded CFS members for dissagreeing? Where, pray tell did you hear that joke?
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Kashre
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Posted - 2003.10.17 03:19:00 -
[150]
Quote:
Edited by: The Reclaimer on 17/10/2003 02:35:58
Look, we all know how we got in this situation. Teister is 16 years old and too immature to lead a bunch of good ppl. He is a snake I wonder how long until is Ragnar'd? Hopefully for CFS it is sooner rather than later. The fine ppl of CFS need to ask this question; Would you trust your Viper to your kids? Lets hope something can be worked out here before this becomes a blood feud.
Add: I read his reaction to the Eve-Guardian and I must say it conferms my beliefs. I can't believe how he acts and that you fine CFS members allow him to make your decisions. I really hope something can be done sooner rather than later.
He doesnt make all the desicions. We have a senate to help him out with that.
And this started because corps which were on our KOS list refused to stay our of our space untill we had waded through enough red tape in the senate to remove them from the KOS list. Wether you were intentionally trying to pick a fight or just too impatient or un-informed on our policies to stay out doesnt really matter at this point.
All mud slinging aside, and thats a lotta mud, if Curse really wanted peace with us they could come and talk to us about it. Im fairly sure there would be those who would listen. But insulting us or our officers is just going to throw wood on the fire and make you look like a troll.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
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