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Noragli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
82
   |
Posted - 2014.11.27 10:18:16 -
[1] - Quote
With no counter balancing change to keep ice prices stable, prices have dropped significantly with the jump changes. This indicates supply is becoming far greater than demand.
Should changes to ice requirements for POS and or jumping be increased to help counter the reduction in consumption? Or alternatively perhaps new uses for ice products could be introduced? |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
15299
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 10:30:59 -
[2] - Quote
Noragli wrote:With no counter balancing change to keep ice prices stable, prices have dropped significantly with the jump changes. This indicates supply is becoming far greater than demand.
Should changes to ice requirements for POS and or jumping be increased to help counter the reduction in consumption? Or alternatively perhaps new uses for ice products could be introduced?
With the new year we should see a considerable reduction in supply, if you know what I mean.
blah blah blah COFFEE blah blah. Yess yess the sophistication. ... Roasted coffee mmmm --Pepper the Penguin
~ For this is the end, I've drowned and dreamt this moment ~
|
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1303
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 10:36:08 -
[3] - Quote
With the broadcasting changes, or for anyone with an IQ under 75 "Isbotter ban", there should be potentially less mega fleets mining ice in highsec. I expect this just means that regular players with only a few miners will clean up the ice belts instead, resulting in no net change.
If anything, once the speculation is over, yes, the demand for isotopes should start to wane, relative to supply, and drop the price. |
Grauth Thorner
Vicious Trading Company
228
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 10:41:20 -
[4] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:With the broadcasting changes, or for anyone with an IQ under 75 "Isbotter ban", there should be potentially less mega fleets mining ice in highsec. I expect this just means that regular players with only a few miners will clean up the ice belts instead, resulting in no net change.
If anything, once the speculation is over, yes, the demand for isotopes should start to wane, relative to supply, and drop the price.
Don't forget the people that are running away from ice mining right now, since the prices are this low. Ice miners might even come out of it better than before. Just be patient, OP, 2015 is coming.
Creator of the EVE Custom Ship Labeler application:
>EVE Custom Ship Labeler application forum thread
|
Lucrii Dei
Vector Galactic
Did he say Jump
139
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 12:48:15 -
[5] - Quote
The solution to this problem is some nice white hot pulse beams of justice.
Let us make violence upon these uppity ice cubes! Allow them to be blown up by missiles and guns!
Gÿå The Explorer I
Gÿå The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
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TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
948
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 13:44:27 -
[6] - Quote
No worries. With the mass exodus of multi boxing ice fleets the price will go up again in no time!
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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LordHascouf
Full Spectrum Inc
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
19
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 17:15:06 -
[7] - Quote
If it's not profitable move on to something else. |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
1055
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 17:20:58 -
[8] - Quote
Noragli wrote:With no counter balancing change to keep ice prices stable, prices have dropped significantly with the jump changes. This indicates supply is becoming far greater than demand.
Should changes to ice requirements for POS and or jumping be increased to help counter the reduction in consumption? Or alternatively perhaps new uses for ice products could be introduced?
Absolutely not. Why artificially influence and thus undermine the credibility of the market? Free markets fluctuate, and they WORK.
\m/ O.o \m/
"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1382
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 18:35:05 -
[9] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:With the broadcasting changes, or for anyone with an IQ under 75 "Isbotter ban", there should be potentially less mega fleets mining ice in highsec. I expect this just means that regular players with only a few miners will clean up the ice belts instead, resulting in no net change.
If anything, once the speculation is over, yes, the demand for isotopes should start to wane, relative to supply, and drop the price.
The ice field should be cleaned up at least a bit slower than they are now thus generating less respawn per day so the total produced might drop a bit. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
387
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 20:27:25 -
[10] - Quote
Well obviously the supply is greater then demand when jump fuel consumption was dropped to 1/3 over night. 
In case you haven't realized capitals use fuel per light year which was dropped from 14,6ly to 5ly with a wait in between. |
Nou Mene
0ne Percent.
Odin's Call
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 20:31:36 -
[11] - Quote
Belts should be destructible. Then price would probably go up... |
Dar Saleem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 21:03:47 -
[12] - Quote
I only have the first months consumption since the patch as a guide, my corp under the old system kept 2 months worth of fuel on hand. We now have 14.5 months of fuel sitting in out hangers. I can see ice price going up a bit, but no where close to its old levels |
Josef Djugashvilis
2710
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 22:09:09 -
[13] - Quote
Single malt whisky with ice.
Repeat as needed.
This is not a signature.
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Serene Repose
1662
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 22:19:06 -
[14] - Quote
I have a better idea. Mine other things, unless of course the bots can't manage.
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
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Hal Morsh
Exodus Mining Corp
207
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 22:23:50 -
[15] - Quote
I think ccp was tired of isboxer fleets plexing and whatnot. You don't even know how many isboxer incursion fleets I noticed in one incursion.
EVE is going through chemotherapy, it will be rough for a little bit but lets just hope it survives.
CCP - Outpost code is scary.
CCP Greyscale - Starbases - They need to look @#$%ing awesome, and people need to want them and
want to be around them and have them and use them and like them and want them and stuff.
|
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
1170
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 08:43:27 -
[16] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Noragli wrote:With no counter balancing change to keep ice prices stable, prices have dropped significantly with the jump changes. This indicates supply is becoming far greater than demand.
Should changes to ice requirements for POS and or jumping be increased to help counter the reduction in consumption? Or alternatively perhaps new uses for ice products could be introduced? With the new year we should see a considerable reduction in supply, if you know what I mean.
Truth. |
metalravenous
S0utherN Comfort
DARKNESS.
44
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 09:06:28 -
[17] - Quote
the correct counter to over supply of ice is stop mining ice |
Alastair Ormand
Running With Scissors.
Apocalypse Now.
87
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 09:41:08 -
[18] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Noragli wrote:With no counter balancing change to keep ice prices stable, prices have dropped significantly with the jump changes. This indicates supply is becoming far greater than demand.
Should changes to ice requirements for POS and or jumping be increased to help counter the reduction in consumption? Or alternatively perhaps new uses for ice products could be introduced? With the new year we should see a considerable reduction in supply, if you know what I mean.
Jesus.... That guy who multiboxes like 90 accounts is screwed.
Don't run with a stick in your mouth.
|
Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services
CAStabouts
198
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 12:30:14 -
[19] - Quote
Oh noes, makret forces are creating a drop in prices and Im not making insanly huge space moneez, CCP please fix so I make insane space moneez. |
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
25164
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 12:32:13 -
[20] - Quote
Gö¼Gö¦Gö¼Gö¦Göñ-òGÇóߦÑGö£Gö¼Gö¦Gö¼Gö¦
What's going on here?
Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase
I like to gank it, gank it!
|
Ocih
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
826
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 12:39:50 -
[21] - Quote
I've been pestering them to give criminal dog tags a valid use for 5 years, get in line.
And as mentioned, we will see what happens in the new year. |
Raviel Oxidans
Uranus Intruders
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 12:41:45 -
[22] - Quote
I know!
Make ice belts hackable! |
AgentMaster
Dinoblood Reborn
Harkonnen Federation
3
|
Posted - 2015.02.13 17:19:45 -
[23] - Quote
Maybe need all ice miners to stop selling ice, but please "Do not fire blankets to kill fleas". No one think for miners - look theyr ships - look like from stone age  no any improvements for them.
CCP say only good things here but no one say: "Miners will pay for this !... Road to hell is paved with good intentions...
Blessed is the man who has nothing to say and yet silent!
|
Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
487
|
Posted - 2015.02.13 17:22:58 -
[24] - Quote
There's always those who think when an obscenely over-priced thing (they've been making a fortune from) finally reaches a reasonable price, the price is TOO LOW. Why is that, dyathink? Got me puzzled. No. Really.
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9768
|
Posted - 2015.02.13 17:30:50 -
[25] - Quote
Took me a second to notice the necro, I'm reading this and thinking "WTF do they mean a near year is coming" lol. |
DaReaper
Net 7
1782
|
Posted - 2015.02.13 19:42:47 -
[26] - Quote
Yup helping with my necromancer powers.. rawr!
Depending on the changes to null and pos' that should be comign Soon(tm) we will most likly see ice prices fall again. Or they could go up, boo knows. interesting times are ahead
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1585
|
Posted - 2015.02.13 19:56:36 -
[27] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Took me a second to notice the necro, I'm reading this and thinking "WTF do they mean a near year is coming" lol.
It took me all the way to my own previous post. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
19819
|
Posted - 2015.02.13 20:04:15 -
[28] - Quote
Grrrrr Player-driven economy!!!!!
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6236
|
Posted - 2015.02.13 22:26:20 -
[29] - Quote
Noragli wrote:With no counter balancing change to keep ice prices stable, prices have dropped significantly with the jump changes. This indicates supply is becoming far greater than demand.
Should changes to ice requirements for POS and or jumping be increased to help counter the reduction in consumption? Or alternatively perhaps new uses for ice products could be introduced?
Spirits, Quafe, and Ice cubes in my hold would help me further define what kind of person I am to whoever destroys my ship
(someone who was probably too drunk to PVP would be the best assumption at that point)
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Memphis Baas
160
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 00:37:58 -
[30] - Quote
Instead of increasing demand let's cut supply. We should be forced to defend the ice belts from the evil Drifters and their battleships that can destroy the ice roids with one shot. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6236
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 00:39:55 -
[31] - Quote
Start seeding ice and roids with Drifters so when the stuff is harvested and the ships "dug up" they be mighty perturbed and then take out the Orca that everybody was mining into.
Oh wait did I let that slip out?
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6538
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 04:05:40 -
[32] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Instead of increasing demand let's cut supply. We should be forced to defend the ice belts from the evil Drifters and their battleships that can destroy the ice roids with one shot.
Only if the highsec ones also drop amazing drifter loot, turning it into highsec belt ratting for uber rewards
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
934
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 08:34:03 -
[33] - Quote
The skybox is falling!
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
|
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
273
|
Posted - 2015.02.14 14:32:45 -
[34] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Instead of increasing demand let's cut supply. We should be forced to defend the ice belts from the evil Drifters and their battleships that can destroy the ice roids with one shot.
Rare means nothing in EVE.
The market is full of super rare and super useless things. All rare does is delay the bloat. |
Brutus Utama
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
3
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 09:01:07 -
[35] - Quote
The low ice prices doesnt stop people from mining it they just store it up instead of selling it.....once the price rises the market will flood crashing the price again. |
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2131
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 15:25:34 -
[36] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Grrrrr Player-driven economy!!!!!
Nerfing jump distances seems very player driven =p |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
The Irukandji.
1913
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 22:33:33 -
[37] - Quote
Kiandoshia wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Grrrrr Player-driven economy!!!!!
Nerfing jump distances seems very player driven =p
That's not an economic issue, it's an exogenous variable which the player driven economy will adapt to and find a new equilibrium. |
Slickste
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 22:42:21 -
[38] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Kiandoshia wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Grrrrr Player-driven economy!!!!!
Nerfing jump distances seems very player driven =p That's not an economic issue, it's an exogenous variable which the player driven economy will adapt to and find a new equilibrium.
Which is exactly what the op suggested. To change the variables to help undo some of the damage done to prices by the jump nerf. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
753
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 12:20:10 -
[39] - Quote
Noragli wrote:With no counter balancing change to keep ice prices stable, prices have dropped significantly with the jump changes. This indicates supply is becoming far greater than demand.
Should changes to ice requirements for POS and or jumping be increased to help counter the reduction in consumption? Or alternatively perhaps new uses for ice products could be introduced?
how about CCP doesn't make changes on the free market and you turn to other areas to make your isk (lots to be made in WH)
one of the great things about eve is its free market and that gets worn at everytime they try to balance something around it.
(looking at you fozzie)
remember everything in eve is worth 0isk we put the value to it
Fuel block colors
|
Intar Medris
Hellbound Turkeys
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
225
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 13:00:49 -
[40] - Quote
Simple don't due instant sell orders. mine up a reasonable amount, and set the price you want. Must buy orders are done by traders trying to undercut the market so they can sell it at market price to make a tidy profit.
I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
|
2Sonas1Cup
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 17:38:11 -
[41] - Quote
I have always thought this game was made by / controlled by players.
And I thought this game was a Sandbox.
I guess its not, as you can see CCP is the one that controls the market by changing things in the game.
Please tell me, you dont really think players control anything in this game and dont tell me the market is controlled by players.
CCP controls the market when they want.
|
Mr X5
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 18:10:02 -
[42] - Quote
And another problem with High Sec ice mining is that, there are a lot of bots, and CCP doesn't do anything about them. There is a whole 'Borg' fleet in Lonetrek operating on a regular basis. It takes around 10-15 minutes to clear an ice belt. It was reported by numerous people, but CCP doesn't do a thing... |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1593
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 19:45:24 -
[43] - Quote
Mr X5 wrote:And another problem with High Sec ice mining is that, there are a lot of bots, and CCP doesn't do anything about them. There is a whole 'Borg' fleet in Lonetrek operating on a regular basis. It takes around 10-15 minutes to clear an ice belt. It was reported by numerous people, but CCP doesn't do a thing...
Are you sure it's a bot or it might be someone using fleet warps and manually targeting the harvester? |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
19872
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 19:48:32 -
[44] - Quote
2Sonas1Cup wrote:I have always thought this game was made by / controlled by players.
And I thought this game was a Sandbox.
I guess its not, as you can see CCP is the one that controls the market by changing things in the game.
Please tell me, you dont really think players control anything in this game and dont tell me the market is controlled by players.
CCP controls the market when they want.
Dinsdale going to be mad as **** when he finds you used his precious tinfoil.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
|
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
DARKNESS.
2621
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 22:27:27 -
[45] - Quote
Let the market adjust on it's own - fuel consumption was already doubled once, for no good reason really.
If there is an oversupply of ice, ice will become cheaper forcing the least competitive ice miners to greener pastures. This is a good thing, as it means the market is finding a new equilibrium point in response to changing market conditions. It's the sign of a healthy and efficient economy.
To use an analogy: imagine it's the turn of the 20th century, and there are two factories in town that produce saddles. Along comes the automobile, and suddenly people don't need as many saddles. One of the factories re-tools to make washing machines. You now have fewer saddle factories. That doesn't make the invention of the automobile a bad thing, just because it reduced saddle consumption. And it certainly doesn't mean you need a saddle subsidy. That's just a waste of resources.
There's absolutely no reason to force players to purchase more ice then they currently need, just because there are too many ice miners. That would be like the government giving you a taxbreak for purchasing ten saddles - sure they can do it, but why? |
Rectile
Warped
6
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 07:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
In null sec make the ice belts destructible forcing alliances to set up a protection ring for the belts large alliance could be crippled this way at least for 24 hours :) |
Maxpie
MUSE Buy-n-Large
Metaphysical Utopian Society Enterprises
441
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 16:03:05 -
[47] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Single malt whisky with ice.
Repeat as needed.
18 year please. Perhaps a Macallan. And 1 cube only.
I don't mind a nice Johnny Walker Blue either. Not single malt, I know, but smooth as silk.
No good deed goes unpunished
|
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
278
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 18:55:15 -
[48] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:2Sonas1Cup wrote:I have always thought this game was made by / controlled by players.
And I thought this game was a Sandbox.
I guess its not, as you can see CCP is the one that controls the market by changing things in the game.
Please tell me, you dont really think players control anything in this game and dont tell me the market is controlled by players.
CCP controls the market when they want.
Dinsdale going to be mad as **** when he finds you used his precious tinfoil.
Dinsdale might be accurate on a few things. Or are you saying those market fluctuations around patch time are all in my head? It's not so much that CCP control the market intentionally but they control everything on the market when they swing the nerf bat. That term, butterfly effect plays in.
|
Stacy Lone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
44
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 21:21:23 -
[49] - Quote
This happens in RL, too.
A government might change what is allowed, and what not, and the market reacts. Prices might go up or down, depending on what exactly happened.
You always have external factors that drive the market. Wether it is the government, or the environment. Sometimes even changes in foreign governments impact your local market.
So yeah, CCP changing things isn't something that is detrimental to it being a sandbox. Sociologists and financial analysts have long seen those effects in real life markets, too. |
Juan Mileghere
Incident Command
Southern Star Dominion
3
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 21:37:08 -
[50] - Quote
Noragli wrote:With no counter balancing change to keep ice prices stable, prices have dropped significantly with the jump changes. This indicates supply is becoming far greater than demand.
Should changes to ice requirements for POS and or jumping be increased to help counter the reduction in consumption? Or alternatively perhaps new uses for ice products could be introduced?
How about remove Ice from high-sec? That'd raise the price again, oh you don't like that do you? |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated
Northern Associates.
122
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 09:02:51 -
[51] - Quote
No fix required.
Market forces will repair this on their own. Supply and demand.
If people stop making the amount of money they want from it due to lower prices, they will cease production and move on. (or be stupid not to).
When they stop production, the supply will more easily match demand and prices will recover.
Either way ... this is a live market. Good to see prices change. And Ice is not the only changing item. years ago a normal price everywhere for a Teir 1 BS was under 70m. Times change. Adapt and survive.
(That said ... it would be nice is ice did have more usues, but not for market reasons, just for choice in application and variety).
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Brutus Utama
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
3
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 13:19:51 -
[52] - Quote
some people from the area where i used to live didnt stop mining ice they just started stockpiling it when the price dropped i know of at least 2 players with the combined total of more than 60k-70k blocks of ice waiting in jita for the price to rise again....
Which as soon as it does is going to drop again once this ice is put on the market..... to possibly even lower costs.
ice mining will not be worth the effort if you ask me compared to mining asteroids atm.....people will always need minerals for modules/ships but ice is only needed upto a certain quantity (since the jump changes). |
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
278
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 19:01:30 -
[53] - Quote
Brutus Utama wrote:some people from the area where i used to live didnt stop mining ice they just started stockpiling it when the price dropped i know of at least 2 players with the combined total of more than 60k-70k blocks of ice waiting in jita for the price to rise again....
Which as soon as it does is going to drop again once this ice is put on the market..... to possibly even lower costs.
ice mining will not be worth the effort if you ask me compared to mining asteroids atm.....people will always need minerals for modules/ships but ice is only needed upto a certain quantity (since the jump changes).
Ice mining never was 'worth it' compared to belt mining.
I have Ice mining to 5, have for years and at no point could I balance the books, where I wasn't better off mining and selling, then buying Ice product. The reasons have changed but the element has never. I try to find Ice Anom systems to mine in though. Just because the gold fish we call pirates will always head to the fattest target, spurge the killmail in local and I can belt mine in those systems with a warning system. |
metalravenous
S0utherN Comfort
DARKNESS.
62
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 05:02:47 -
[54] - Quote
2Sonas1Cup wrote:I have always thought this game was made by / controlled by players.
And I thought this game was a Sandbox.
I guess its not, as you can see CCP is the one that controls the market by changing things in the game.
Please tell me, you dont really think players control anything in this game and dont tell me the market is controlled by players.
CCP controls the market when they want.
So what if they do. If you don't like it don't play. |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
750
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 09:20:56 -
[55] - Quote
In the Hyperdunking thread further up, an interesting topic popped up:
Dracvlad wrote: The issue with this hyperdunking approach is the impact on offline POS's, amongst all the carnage in Niarja, I saw a number POS module takedowns, it included a corp hanger and a ship bay, the losses were enourmous. It may be that the player who let it go offline is hardly playing, however he did not have a war dec warning him of someone desiring the goodies in his tower, nope, they just got taken out no warning, this is a massive change.
It seems that letting POSes go offline is a common practice in High Sec, since they are protected, even without their shield, by the Wardec mechanics (someone has to wardec you to target your POS, so you have 24 hour warning to slip some fuel in and bring the shield back up). That's potentially a lot of POSes not using the amount of ice they are supposed to be. Maybe getting a fix done on this little exploit would solve your problem? |
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