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Rehmes
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Posted - 2006.09.02 18:36:00 -
[1]
Since ive never used any other other destroyers ill talk about the one i actually own. I tend to like smaller ships with speed/agility. I set my thrasher w arties since its a very powerful set up, but i start wondering at times about their role. They are meant to be anti frigs, but honestly i could do the same thing in my rupture/stabber. As a matter of fact i usually consider my stabber an slightly bigger destroyer w longer survival chances and higher firepower ( ihavent crunshed the numbers but i tend to do better in the stab than the thrasher). So heres what id like to know, do any of u guys actually use destroyers at all and if u do in what situations do u use em for? also which kind of changes would u like to see made so that the destroyer class can be more useful.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.09.02 18:44:00 -
[2]
Boost them to be more BC-like and less sucky-like.
Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.02 18:44:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/09/2006 18:44:00
Personally ive skipped the entire class, because I agree they arent really worth it. Rupture with artillery will probably insta-pop them if they dont move around... :)
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Rehmes
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Posted - 2006.09.02 18:45:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/09/2006 18:43:53
Personally ive skipped the entire class, because I agree they arent really worth it. Rupture with artillery will probably insta-pop them if they dont move around... :)
Havent tried it but ur prob correct, however i trained it cuz i want an interdictor...but honestly in naval conditions detroyers r very useful, id like to see this class be more usefull because the role it serves can be done by practically every other ship in game...
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Sigos
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Posted - 2006.09.02 19:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Rehmes
Btw wth was CCP thinking when it gave the coercer 1 mid?.....never flown on but damn i honestly think it may be the gimpest of all destroyers and thats saying something.
That's about right for an Amarr ship... All you really need there is a sensor booster, anyway. It can fit 8 turrets and has 4 lows. It seems like the nicest destroyer out there.
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Rehmes
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Posted - 2006.09.02 19:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sigos
Originally by: Rehmes
Btw wth was CCP thinking when it gave the coercer 1 mid?.....never flown on but damn i honestly think it may be the gimpest of all destroyers and thats saying something.
That's about right for an Amarr ship... All you really need there is a sensor booster, anyway. It can fit 8 turrets and has 4 lows. It seems like the nicest destroyer out there.
U may be right ive personnaly never tried it, but i have a mindset to place an ab on everything so it looked bad to me.
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Guurzak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.02 20:05:00 -
[7]
Thrashers can lock faster than cruisers can, so if lock speed is the most important factor (*cough gatecamp cough*) the Destroyer has a useful niche.
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Clais Monaige
Prodigy Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.09.02 20:46:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Clais Monaige on 02/09/2006 20:48:16
Originally by: Rehmes
U may be right ive personnaly never tried it, but i have a mindset to place an ab on everything so it looked bad to me.
The Coercer sucks. Really. Its lone midslot makes it unusefull in PVP if you ask me. You can't snimpe in it, you can't do much damage, you can't pursue frigs, you can't tackle...i thin Coercer works best against NPCs, but tbh i've never tried it against other players.
The whole class is nerfed to hell, dunno why. They got a range bonus, which is fine, but it doesn't help out to get a solid role in the game.
Looking at the bonuses they get they're intended to cause much alpha strike damage (rof penalty), outrabge frigates (range bonus), so a Thrasher fitted with Arties would fill the role perfectly, imho. Don't try a AC setup which means that drones eat you alive (no way to dodge or flee). Cruisers eat you alive!
I think that besides gatecamping they were intended to be watchdogs (as someone wrote appying) for Battleships which can't hit small targets (alliance tournament should have shown that they work well against drones, never tested it by myself tbh).
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- be excellent to each other -
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FFGR
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.02 20:55:00 -
[9]
Edited by: FFGR on 02/09/2006 20:56:10
Think more of the destroyer as a paper thin class, designed to kill fast frigate size menaces.
As to the ROF penalty, it is there because they initially designed the destroyers for use of less turrets, the art department put gun emplacements for 7-8 turrets though on the models of the ships. You can also see that with the Brutix where there is a gun emplacement on the top of the ship, while you can't fit it since it can only hold 7 guns.
The problems that the Destroyer class has is that it isn't fast enough (frigs defend mostly by moving fast) and they don't have many HP/slots for tanking (like cruisers do). What they do have is extremely fast tracking turrets that you don't need a web to use in order to tear apart non-plated ceptors.
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siggys v. 0.5 |
Rehmes
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Posted - 2006.09.02 20:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Clais Monaige
Edited by: Clais Monaige on 02/09/2006 20:48:16
Originally by: Rehmes
U may be right ive personnaly never tried it, but i have a mindset to place an ab on everything so it looked bad to me.
The Coercer sucks. Really. Its lone midslot makes it unusefull in PVP if you ask me. You can't snimpe in it, you can't do much damage, you can't pursue frigs, you can't tackle...i thin Coercer works best against NPCs, but tbh i've never tried it against other players.
The whole class is nerfed to hell, dunno why. They got a range bonus, which is fine, but it doesn't help out to get a solid role in the game.
Looking at the bonuses they get they're intended to cause much alpha strike damage (rof penalty), outrabge frigates (range bonus), so a Thrasher fitted with Arties would fill the role perfectly, imho. Don't try a AC setup which means that drones eat you alive (no way to dodge or flee). Cruisers eat you alive!
I think that besides gatecamping they were intended to be watchdogs (as someone wrote appying) for Battleships which can't hit small targets (alliance tournament should have shown that they work well against drones, never tested it by myself tbh).
Hmm i didnt think itd work well against drones since i was using arts...good point though ima go test it out. Ive heard about gatecamping even though most higher ends use the dictor cuz of the spheres...i thinkif they were faster/agile they may be better but who knows as uve said the whole class is messed up.
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SasRipper
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.02 21:02:00 -
[11]
/me pets his tech 2 trasher of friggy DOOM!!!
never get to use it though 
Originally by: Santiago Cortes
Please don't derail your own thread.
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Sphit Ker
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Posted - 2006.09.02 21:20:00 -
[12]
I flown a Coercer for weeks. I had a blast insta-popping any NPC less than 13k bounty. It can be quite efficient but only one mid-slot AND -50% RoF?!? Not quite the hottest thing to fly.
To remove the RoF penalty would make them alright, I think. Ok so it has 8 (small) turrets.. but they shoot half as fast as normal ships..
I see Destroyers like obnoxius turret boats that can blow up just by starring funny at them.. but still one hell of turret boat one should not underestimate.
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Rehmes
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Posted - 2006.09.02 22:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sphit Ker
Edited by: Sphit Ker on 02/09/2006 21:49:59
I flown a Coercer for weeks. I had a blast insta-popping any NPC less than 13k bounty. It can be quite efficient but only one mid-slot AND -25% RoF?!? Not quite the hottest thing to fly.
To remove the RoF penalty would make them alright, I think. Ok so it has 8 (small) turrets.. but they shoot half as fast as normal ships..
I see Destroyers like obnoxius turret boats that can blow up just by starring funny at them.. but still one hell of turret boat one should not underestimate.
EDIT: its -25% not -50% RoF..
I just cant get the 1 mid slot prob of that ship, i honestly dont knwo why people wouldnt just press self-destruct. Back on topic though the -25% ROF is nto that bad since our tracking is pretty nifty, hell i use artillery w that -25% just fine. I think what we need is a speed/agility increase since our sig rad is high enough that cruisers will wtfbbqpwn in not time. Then again they could always reduce the sig on the destroyers but i think its as low as it should be due to the mere size of these ships.
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Clais Monaige
Prodigy Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.09.03 10:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rehmes
Ive heard about gatecamping even though most higher ends use the dictor cuz of the spheres...i thinkif they were faster/agile they may be better
Sure they are (perhaps not dps wise due to the launcher hardpoints), but they are so expensive (skills + ship + fitting [spheres]) so the most economical way of use is perhaps dropping a sphere and warp out (or perhaps cloak).
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- be excellent to each other -
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Dorah Hawkwing
Chosen Path
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.03 12:45:00 -
[15]
Aye, they kill before dmg accumulates. I dare pitting my coercer against any crow out there.
Either I deny the crow it's role (tackler), or he has to brave my envelope of fire, and pay for it.
Well set up destroyer hits 200 dps.
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Cohkka
LoneWolf Mining
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.09.03 13:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/09/2006 18:44:00
Personally ive skipped the entire class, because I agree they arent really worth it. Rupture with artillery will probably insta-pop them if they dont move around... :)
Never trained up for BCs nor for Dessys, as well. There is no point flying Dessy if you can fly Cruiser and be toughter or Frig and be faster. There is no point flying a BC if you can fly BS which is as agile as the BC, but with more firepower.
If you want to train for the t2 ships it's another story, tho...
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Hayabusa Fury
Caldari
Wu-Tang Financial
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2006.09.03 13:22:00 -
[17]
I agree with the dessy opinion on why fly one. BC's though hit a nice price point. A point above cruiser that they are more effective but are fully insurable and not bank breaking to fit. A poor man's BS if you will. Tank-wise at least.
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"I can not recall the number of times my superior intellect has got me knee deep in ****!" --Harely Hayes |
Marine Raider
Minmatar
Black Lance
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.09.03 14:15:00 -
[18]
The thing with destroyers is there is no upgrade path so only a very small fraction of people will take the time to upgrade to dictors and this is the main reason that destroyers are usually bypassed by most players as they head straight for cruisers. Battlecruisers are a very different story because while the skills to train for command ships are needed for other ships and fittings. What ship besides a frig needs propulsion jamming at lvl 5 to save them 5% cap? The answer is none and since there is no other upgrade after it, such as an interdictor cruiser or something, the skill is a dead end. Plus it requires about 40 days of training. Make a second t2 destroyer and you'll see them come into the light.
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Raiders Company - WE SET THE PACE
USMC |
Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.03 15:50:00 -
[19]
thrasher + T2 280mm's = pain. lots.
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Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Glumrug Carson
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Posted - 2006.09.03 17:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Grimpak
thrasher + T2 280mm's = pain. lots.
I've done it. Its a 1 volly deal. You pop em in 1 volly, or they run because they are in low armor or into structure, and they have to get 30km closer to fire back.
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Clais Monaige
Prodigy Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.09.03 20:25:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Clais Monaige on 03/09/2006 20:26:43
Originally by: Dorah Hawkwing
Aye, they kill before dmg accumulates. I dare pitting my coercer against any crow out there.
Either I deny the crow it's role (tackler), or he has to brave my envelope of fire, and pay for it.
Well set up destroyer hits 200 dps.
Yeah, i've to revise myself - a Corcer with a mix of med+dual light beams resembles a Catalyst with blasters, but with much more range! And yes, a well fitted destroyer surely does much damage dispite the rof penalty, but at the lack of anything else (speed, tank...). But that's the point: they are hard to fit, impossible for newbies to fly them the way they're meant to be flown (pure damage dealer vs. frigates), and no veteran considers to fly the t1 ones i guess...perhaps because they are all carebears and don't want to loose 'cause sitting in a destroyer 
The idea beyond all this is not to buff the destroyers as such, but to encourage veterans to fly theme. Give them i minor bonus role or an additional role (anti-cloaking etc.) and i bet that they'll become more popular by veterans...
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- be excellent to each other -
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Andreask14
Sensus Numinis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.09.03 20:40:00 -
[22]
Coercer is not that bad actually.
I fit a full rack of medium sized beams, the ones amarr noramly use on their cruisers, and get an optimal of 50km.
Thats quite awesome for a low-class t1 ships with a cheap price.
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Cohkka
LoneWolf Mining
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.09.03 20:48:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Glumrug Carson
Originally by: Grimpak
thrasher + T2 280mm's = pain. lots.
I've done it. Its a 1 volly deal. You pop em in 1 volly, or they run because they are in low armor or into structure, and they have to get 30km closer to fire back.
Aye, I came near a trasher in a Stiletto once. The Trasher shouldn't be able to hit me due to transversal but as wreckings work he got a lucky shot and hit me for about 600 dmg into structure, I ran away...
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Clais Monaige
PPN United
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.09.05 20:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Andreask14
Coercer is not that bad actually.
I fit a full rack of medium sized beams, the ones amarr noramly use on their cruisers, and get an optimal of 50km.
No way! 
Please share the fitting with us 
I hardly get 8 mediums online (and these are in the small category!), only with fitting modules, and with 2 tracking enhancers and 1 tracking computer i never get 50km, to say nothing of doing serious damage over that distance...
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- be excellent to each other -
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.05 21:38:00 -
[25]
the corm really is a nice destroyer. one low kinda sucks but a 7 railgun salute is sweetness.
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Foulis
Minmatar
Chosen Path
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.05 21:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Grimpak
thrasher + T2 280mm's = pain. lots.
Thrasher + t2 280's + dual web + sensor booster = More pain.
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Cake > Pie - Imaran
Cathath > Imaran - Cathath
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2006.09.05 23:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Foulis
Originally by: Grimpak
thrasher + T2 280mm's = pain. lots.
Thrasher + t2 280's + dual web + sensor booster = More pain.
Trasher getting locked by a stabber with tech 1 setup = A lot more Pain...Actually pwned a tech 2 trasher with stabber, never dropped below 50% shield, no extender, no hardener...just pwnage.
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Blind Man
Caldari
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.05 23:59:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Foulis
Originally by: Grimpak
thrasher + T2 280mm's = pain. lots.
Thrasher + t2 280's + dual web + sensor booster = More pain.
+ quake = MORE PAIN YEAH
SignatureTemporarily Out Of Order |
Chief Seattle
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Posted - 2006.09.06 04:57:00 -
[29]
for running lvl 1s really fast fit 7 T2 ACs and a smart bomb. i cant activate them fast enough if i get it jsut right i can insta pop or pop them in 2 hits in a cycle of activating my autos. =( only works on lvl 1 though
i wonder if i could purchase a female sig and make some siglets..... |
Rehmes
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Posted - 2006.09.06 05:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Chief Seattle
for running lvl 1s really fast fit 7 T2 ACs and a smart bomb. i cant activate them fast enough if i get it jsut right i can insta pop or pop them in 2 hits in a cycle of activating my autos. =( only works on lvl 1 though
Never tried an AC set up for the thrasher, guess ill give it a shot....the smarbomb idea sounds cool 2 just got a named one in a lv 3 and no one wants to buy it, so hell i slap it on and give it a run.
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Morikai Acler
Caldari
The Whitesands Consortium
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Posted - 2006.09.06 07:04:00 -
[31]
Hmm, destroyers I'd have to say are one of the most under appreciated ship classes in the game. They actually do ok if you use them right. They aren't made to go 1 on 1 vs a cruiser. Don't know why anyone would be proud that they killed a smaller lighter armored ship that way. They are excellent for taking out frigates and keeping tackler off larger ships in fleet engagements. I personally use to fly either a cormorant or Thrasher during frigate gank squad runs in my alliance days, since they pack a bit of extra punch that can be taken advantage of in gangs against larger ships.
Use to use 5 250mm light arties, 1 arb rocket launcher for defenders, and 2 small nos in my high slots. MWD, 1 web, 1 scrambler in mids(can't remember if it has a 4th mid). And 2 cap power relays in the low slots, could run mwd pretty much as long as I wanted for decent speed, and I could hit frigs like no tomorow.
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sariss
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.09.06 11:21:00 -
[32]
3 nos + 1 neut + 4 autos
ab, web, scram
plate, repper
--> say bye bye to any assault frig that comes your way (except for the minni ones)
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes |
Benco97
Gallente
Cosmic Odyssey
Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2006.09.06 11:39:00 -
[33]
i'm a big fan of destroyers, especially the Thrasher.
Lots of fun to fly
Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group (F.A.G) and Registered Fedo breeder |
Flitz Farseeker
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.06 12:49:00 -
[34]
I like my Catalyst. Most things pop quicker than I can lock them. But it can't take the hits and doesn't like damage. Did manage to take down an NPC Moa once on a L2 Human Cattle mission (I think) by using plutonium / antimatter in my rails and running the AB flat out to maintain high transversal.
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Sol Basso
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Posted - 2006.09.07 15:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Andreask14
Coercer is not that bad actually.
I fit a full rack of medium sized beams, the ones amarr noramly use on their cruisers, and get an optimal of 50km.
Thats quite awesome for a low-class t1 ships with a cheap price.
What skills/mods are you using to get a full rack of medium beams on? (we are talking medium beam laser 1 here I assume) I've tried and just can't fit them all and I like to think my fitting skills are pretty good (or are you sacrificing the other slots?)
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