| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Eleutherian Guard
22
   |
Posted - 2011.11.28 15:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp
Quote:Fixed an issue where Factional Warfare systems would run out of combat sites. GÇÿOutpostGÇÖ sites of all sizes will now respawn every 30 minutes in all Factional Warfare systems.
...what does that mean, exactly? Does that mean if you have 24 hour coverage in a system, you can just cap plexes every 30 minutes, and the system is yours?
Given the continuing imbalance of FW NPCs...I don't even want to think of the implications of this lol. Why was there no devblog? |
Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
60
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 16:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp Quote:Fixed an issue where Factional Warfare systems would run out of combat sites. GÇÿOutpostGÇÖ sites of all sizes will now respawn every 30 minutes in all Factional Warfare systems. ...what does that mean, exactly? Does that mean if you have 24 hour coverage in a system, you can just cap plexes every 30 minutes, and the system is yours? Given the continuing imbalance of FW NPCs...I don't even want to think of the implications of this lol. Why was there no devblog? EDIT: Does this fix the issue that if the Gallente have only one occupied system in Caldari space, plexes only spawn there after DT, and never again for the rest of the day? Current system is plexes respawns in same sov and same occupancy when one closes elsewhere (but never cross-occupancy or cross-sov)
you haven't been keeping up with the threads on this have you? |
Super Chair
Hell's Revenge
Flatline.
38
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 18:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Inb4 gallente getting their own version of distinguished blade
In all seriousness though this change means there's actually a means for people who want to participate in FW plexing at a point other than just downtime to be able to do so. It also might change the map a little. It's been far too stagnant for far too long. NPC balance issues aside, I'm sure gallente will be able to start taking systems left and right given their number (i.e. pvper population) superiority for the majority of the day. 30 plexes to make a system vulnerable, two per hour, meaning 15 hours of unopposed plexing makes a bunker vulnerable. More systems going vulnerable means more fleets shooting bunkers meaning more potential fights and that's what FW needs.
(Or FC's could pull a Super Chair, dock and pod home when faced with a superior fleet in terms of number or composition after taking the bunker. I don't think you guys will have to worry about that too much now though  ) |
Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
60
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 18:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Inb4 gallente getting their own version of distinguished blade In all seriousness though this change means there's actually a means for people who want to participate in FW plexing at a point other than just downtime to be able to do so. It also might change the map a little. It's been far too stagnant for far too long. NPC balance issues aside, I'm sure gallente will be able to start taking systems left and right given their number (i.e. pvper population) superiority for the majority of the day. 30 plexes to make a system vulnerable, two per hour, meaning 15 hours of unopposed plexing makes a bunker vulnerable. More systems going vulnerable means more fleets shooting bunkers meaning more potential fights and that's what FW needs. (Or FC's could pull a Super Chair, dock and pod home when faced with a superior fleet in terms of number or composition after taking the bunker. I don't think you guys will have to worry about that too much now though )
Super you left FW!?!?!?!
/me shakes his head |
Dark Pangolin
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 19:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:30 plexes to make a system vulnerable, two per hour, meaning 15 hours of unopposed plexing makes a bunker vulnerable. More systems going vulnerable means more fleets shooting bunkers meaning more potential fights and that's what FW needs.
HAI SUPER! SAY HI TO THE KIDS!
Now on to serious space business. I was writing a whole diatribe about how owning a system means nothing and how one fleet would just hide and out-wait the other blah blah blah, CalMil shouldn't be able to dock in Federal Defense Station etc. etc. etc. but then I realized it was all pointless.
Good luck Plexers! |
Bad Messenger
draketrain
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 19:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
It has never been about NPC or after dt plexing, it has been about will to do lot of worthless grind.
Now there is no more anything that prevents gallente or caldari or any other militia to take all systems if they want or are capable to form an organisation to do that.
If there really is plex for every system every 30 min it means that no more grinding with lowskill alts in systems that are not uncontested just for transfer plexes to target systems.
Now if you want to defend, all you need is pvp, kill those alts or mains who want to take systems. BTW same worked on previous plex spawn system too.
If someone want to take system, he surely will make sure that no one takes any plexes on any time, so there will be possibly more pvp on those sytems that are going to flip.
Also if some systems is defended too heavily other systems may get attacked too so enemy has to split forces anyway.
This change will fix many problems, but it may create lot of new problems, we will see what happens, but tactics will change it is sure.
|
Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
25
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 19:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
I flew around for 40 mins last night in Caldari space and the only offensive plexes I could find were systems at the edge of the FW map that were not contested. They would have 5 or 6 plexes in each. The "central" systems had no plexes at all. I figured what was the point, so I docked up and watched PvP videos.
This will be interesting. |
Pulgy
Spiritus Draconis
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 19:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
awwwww yeah
Monkeys writing-á Shakespeare?
That's like putting CCP in charge of game balance and content updates. |
Dirk Smacker
Black Talon Aerospace
Black Watch.
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 01:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
I guess if you occupy a system, you have a better chance at gaining occupancy.
Imagine that. |
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 06:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dirk Smacker wrote:I guess if you occupy a system, you have a better chance at gaining occupancy.
Imagine that.
There is still no incentive to plex is there? I mean, one side will likely have people interested to form a fleet and go flip opponents staging system (and possibly do it repeatedly) but there is hardly any incentive for other side to defend. The
choice in most peoples heads will always be "Orbit button or go do FW missions and earn ton of isk at the same time".
Hell, one could create badly trained alts and just put them to speed tank gallente/amarr plexes and flip systems in a day.
We'll have to see how these changes work in practice but I assume consultation from FW players was probably not done. Or then they just took the initial code for FW from SiSi which seemed to follow similiar pattern as i remember we flipped a system there after a days worth of plexing because they constantly respawned in same constellation.
But it's good to get rid of the DT rush anyway.
Also. Any idea of this was in SiSi before this annoucement or can we expect whole eve to crash repeatedly when it's put into practice without proper testing  |
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 20:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have observed new mechanism and here is my neutral observation:
- Flipping systems will be faster now.
- One man and his alt doing defending is now essentially pointless because of the constant respawns.
- If one wants to defend and/or occupy a system, you better live in it.
All in all this is my summary of the thing: I for one wont bother with defending systems that much because it's impossible for one man. Casually yes but if someone wants to take a system, he will do it by sitting in system for 24h straight. In optimal cases, corps will spread out and FW map will become a sort of "Bantustan" with dots on map indicating "Here lives corp x of Y militia". This is not bad thing.
Depending on size of your corp, you can occupy one system and maybe adjancent ones if you have people willing to run down uncontested plexes throughout most of the day (assuming you have opposition). Of course CCP does did not seem to chance the "occupying hostile solar system" problem which means all dt you get lots of plexes there. This is further aggravated by fact you get more every 30 minutes. So I assume that currently systems occupied by caldari can be taken within 24-48h. Of course same can happen to Gallente occupied systems.
However, this is somewhat migitated by the fact that unless you move into said system, occupancy is likely to be short lived due to above reasons. If we do get the "bantustan" option, then I can foresee FW becoming more about small gangs than about big blobs. Maintaining occupancy also requires corp members to constantly run down uncontested plexes. This of course requires drastic change of mindset from most players and it's possible it simply wont happen.
And of course there is always the likely risk of people simply not jumping into possibility of plex fights and focusing on usual. Which is missions and wait for a big fleet to form. Meanwhile couple of guys go about and turn systems vulnerable
So, game on I quess. Lets see if people move to opponents low-sec and plant the flag so to speak. Occupancy is dead, long live the plex fights I quess. On personal level though, I find the "new plexes in systems every 30 minutes" slightly drastic. It would probably be better to be expanded to be constellation wide as it would mean the action would be spread around a bit without plexing becoming about sitting in one system and undocking to scan for plexes every half an hour
Anyone else like to comment about the new mechanism?
P.S: repeating Caldari feat of occupying whole FW area is more or less impossible now. Simply because there will always be a system out there, which has enough plexes to turn it vulnerable in one go. Unless CCP has implemented some sort of maximum limit of plexes per system (I doubt)
Also, Amarr/Matar probably get the short end of the stick here due to their geography being essentially one long-pipe which is million jumps long. Caldari/Gallente have it much better in this regard.
|
Super Chair
Hell's Revenge
Flatline.
39
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 23:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
I guess what it comes down to is:
Plexes spawning every 30 minutes
Plexes respawning every 30 minutes
From what I gather from the patch notes that it is supposed to be a respawn mechanism (so that plexes only spawn every 30 minutes if people are running them) and not a spawning one. Massive pileups vs consistent periodic spawning.
All up to the programmers wether or not they improved FW slightly or made it worse  |
Bad Messenger
draketrain
24
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 00:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Amount of plexes is not really an issue.
Now it is possibel to attack on any time, and enemy has to be prepared to counter that 24/7.
So it is not dependable anymore on plex spawning, all that matters is who will get plexes done.
So if you can kill enemy every time they wont get plexes, so now pvp is the main point, not who has will to orbit button.
So basically you can go and try to take system, you take some plexes and systems starts to shine on map, then some hardcore patriots will come to defend and you will get pvp in plexes because there is plexes.
Defending uncontested systems with alts is now mainly over, all you have to do is kill enemy plexers 24/7. So side who can organise most pvp guys roaming, possibly will get most systems and hold them.
1 or 2 guys can not do it, you will need lot of people.
Hopefully this will refresh plex pvp, sad part is that ccp did not change plex ship limitations so we will see lot of pirate faction ships around. |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis
332
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 04:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
At least the Dramiel got nerfed.
|
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 05:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Also, can we agree to put moratorium on "system x taken by militia y" because I seriously assume such threads would pop up more frequently than some people change their socks?... |
Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
29
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 05:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
I habeen gone for almost a year and a half, and it seems there is no benefit to taking a system? Is that still the case? Until that happenes, its just not going to be very popular other than for folks that like sanctioned piracy...
Some kinf of month pay to pilots based on number and type of plex they flip, or loss of stationsnand the agents in them. You start taking away people's ability to get the phat faction goods, some other fighters may show up.
Regardless, I am looking forward to more small plex pvp. And good riddance to the Dram. When will the Cynabal get the same adjustment?
EDIT: the typos and poor sentances are due to me beigh on and ipad, and fighting themeffects of ambien. Im losing. |
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 05:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Emily Poast wrote:I habeen gone for almost a year and a half, and it seems there is no benefit to taking a system? Is that still the case? Until that happenes, its just not going to be very popular other than for folks that like sanctioned piracy...
No, none whatsoever. Which of course is the most likely outcome of the whole thing. One side cares enough to mobilise bulk of their people, others dont. End result is that both are probably bored because they go look for fights and none are coming (because other sides hardcore dudes wont go to be roflstomped by blob). As said earlier, this would require different kind of mindset for most players.
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
163
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 13:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:...So if you can kill enemy every time they wont get plexes, so now pvp is the main point, not who has will to orbit button....
Why do you think that will happen all of a sudden when all that has been done is make the turd bigger?
The system itself is still broken, the plexing alts will still run for the hills and systems will now fall so fast that any sort of organized counter is out of the question.
Fits in very nicely with established medium-large sized corps (like PERVs of old) that doesn't have to rely on the rag-tag militia for fire support but for plexing in general the constant plex spam benefit only the alt abusers.
You were involved with the great PERV minnie alt showcase weren't you .. the one where you proved beyond a shadow of doubt just how stupid the whole thing is in it current form? How can you, with a straight face, say that more of the same is good in any way, shape or form?
|
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 14:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:...So if you can kill enemy every time they wont get plexes, so now pvp is the main point, not who has will to orbit button.... Why do you think that will happen all of a sudden when all that has been done is make the turd bigger? The system itself is still broken, the plexing alts will still run for the hills and systems will now fall so fast that any sort of organized counter is out of the question.
This is true, but it's getting closer. IMO, there was a Trifecta of things required to make plexing viable
1) Fix the DT spawning issue
2) Balance the rats (please don't buff the amarr or gallente rats, make all rats equally useless so it's about pvp)
3) Give some monetary incentive so when no-one comes to your plex, you don't wish you'd instead run missions with your pve time. IMO, FW missions should be removed so that all ISK/LP are made by these plexes, and all plexes can be captured by the enemy. (Right now missions can't be failed by an enemy except for the get an item missions which pay dirt poor anyways, so the Pve'r can just outlast the pvper in patience).
#1 is done, once #2 and #3 come in then things will get interesting. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
311
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 15:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
"There is no DT advantage, Caldari are just better"
Andreus Anthony LeHane Ixiris
CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Animated Corporate Logos |
Bad Messenger
draketrain
27
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 20:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:...So if you can kill enemy every time they wont get plexes, so now pvp is the main point, not who has will to orbit button.... Why do you think that will happen all of a sudden when all that has been done is make the turd bigger? The system itself is still broken, the plexing alts will still run for the hills and systems will now fall so fast that any sort of organized counter is out of the question. Fits in very nicely with established medium-large sized corps (like PERVs of old) that doesn't have to rely on the rag-tag militia for fire support but for plexing in general the constant plex spam benefit only the alt abusers. You were involved with the great PERV minnie alt showcase weren't you .. the one where you proved beyond a shadow of doubt just how stupid the whole thing is in it current form? How can you, with a straight face, say that more of the same is good in any way, shape or form?
Anyone could have prevented our alt crusader by doing pvp and killing us and alts. We made anhk to stop standing plexing by killing her enough. Problem was that not many was capable to kill PERVS in plexes so alts could do their job.
It is pvp that matters nothing else. Take control of area, do scouting and kill all plexers. Then take plexes if you want, there is always people who want to take plexes if others protect them from pvpers.
So creating organisation that can handle 24/7 all what is needed, can defend and take all systems, no matter what bugs, exploits , npc advantage etc there is. Now one man can't do much, side who gets best organisation will 'win'. And best thing is it is not timezone issue anymore on any way. You have to control system at least 2/3 time to get it. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
164
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 20:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:...So creating organisation that can handle 24/7 all what is needed, can defend and take all systems, no matter what bugs, exploits , npc advantage etc there is. Now one man can't do much, side who gets best organisation will 'win'. And best thing is it is not timezone issue anymore on any way. You have to control system at least 2/3 time to get it.
Theoretically perhaps, but in reality you will still see a big boost from DT shuffle as it can represent several hours worth of plexes and no amount of 23/7 organization can "counter" sheer numbers. The amount of plexers that even exist in the various militia's is fairly low (not counting alts) and with the whole thing still being an exercise of "whatever, I'll do misisons" the numbers will not increase.
No change made to plexes* have provided an increase in combat within said plexes .. Ever! What they have done however, is add even more outrageous abuses to the list of things that must be done to plex "effectively" .. increasing the number of plexes, even if spread out across TZ's will not change this in any way, human nature simply won't (and can't) allow it.
The change makes no sense without an almost complete overhaul of the entire plexing system/concept .. but if that was/is on the table then pushing this crap out first is done either out of malice/contempt or sheer ignorance of what and how it works.
*Can actually only think of one ever made, faster position reset of NPCs, rest have been bug squashes.
|
Bad Messenger
draketrain
27
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 22:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:...So creating organisation that can handle 24/7 all what is needed, can defend and take all systems, no matter what bugs, exploits , npc advantage etc there is. Now one man can't do much, side who gets best organisation will 'win'. And best thing is it is not timezone issue anymore on any way. You have to control system at least 2/3 time to get it. Theoretically perhaps, but in reality you will still see a big boost from DT shuffle as it can represent several hours worth of plexes and no amount of 23/7 organization can "counter" sheer numbers. The amount of plexers that even exist in the various militia's is fairly low (not counting alts) and with the whole thing still being an exercise of "whatever, I'll do misisons" the numbers will not increase. No change made to plexes* have provided an increase in combat within said plexes .. Ever! What they have done however, is add even more outrageous abuses to the list of things that must be done to plex "effectively" .. increasing the number of plexes, even if spread out across TZ's will not change this in any way, human nature simply won't (and can't) allow it. The change makes no sense without an almost complete overhaul of the entire plexing system/concept .. but if that was/is on the table then pushing this crap out first is done either out of malice/contempt or sheer ignorance of what and how it works. *Can actually only think of one ever made, faster position reset of NPCs, rest have been bug squashes.
Tactic with old after dt system was that you take all plexes after down time, then if enemy want to counter they have to move plexes from other systems to get those possibly to spawn target systems.
Now you can forget that, there will be plexes on target system on any time. So taking meaningless plexes from uncontested systems is practically over. So unskilled alts are only good to operate on systems where enemy does not have control.
You can still try to ninja defend systems when enemy is sleeping, but easiest way is to kill enemy when possible and prevent their plexing, so ninja defending becames not so important.
If you do not want to take plex you can always kill enemy and prevent him to take that, plexes will be like a honey pots in important systems.
And if system goes vulnerable you can still try to defend because there possibly will be plexes to take, earlier it was almost impossible, usually you had to wait next down time to make it contested again.
|
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 07:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Theoretically perhaps, but in reality you will still see a big boost from DT shuffle as it can represent several hours worth of plexes and no amount of 23/7 organization can "counter" sheer numbers. The amount of plexers that even exist in the various militia's is fairly low (not counting alts) and with the whole thing still being an exercise of "whatever, I'll do misisons" the numbers will not increase.
I personally just consider Crucible, in regards to FW, be a nerf bat hitting Damar/Val/Sasawong/the unknown Amarr dude squarely in the ballz
Plexing is now team effort requires corps/militias to do it if there is desire to be successful. Which in turn means I don't particularly have to stress about things anymore in regard to plexing. I use the opportunity to chill for a while and see what direction things go. Because ultimately, no matter how occupancy changes, it can be reversed to either direction within 48h period (unlike the weeks/months it required before this)
|
Mike Whiite
Progressive State
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 13:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Personaly I don't think it will do, with this change, more work for the same non exsisting reward.
Unlike players with several alts I need to earn the isk I spend on PvP myself, that would mean you become prisoner of the system you're defending / occuping, need to recover every time you log on or start working in corps that can cover 24 hours and like to do nothing more than taking plexes or preventing them from being taken.
For a name in the upper right corner of your screen and a rank that only tells you how long you've been part of plex running.
so within a few weeks everybody is borred with the whole thing and plexing dies as whole, or millitia's turn in big 0.0 sec blobs.
That said I understand that ccp need to remove a so called down time advantage though I don't believe ithis makes it more atracktive to join the millitia.
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
48
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 02:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Within a couple days you and a couple friends can flip a system. Then either:
1) You go do something else for fun, or
2) The enemy attacks your system and you get to run them out.
And then there's the option of trying to grief the other guys who are trying to flip a system.
Not a bad options in any case. And the one-two days to flip a system isn't as mind numbingly boring as the month long trudge of fighting with alts, etc... that the old system promoted.
In any case, as with everything in Eve, if one side out blobs the other, then there aren't going to be many fun fights - no matter that the potential reward may be.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |