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Amarr - Have I misunderstood something?

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Highlord Nicolai	Posted - 2006.09.03 07:55:00 - [1] Ok here we go I'm flying an Omen (Amarr Cruiser) and I'm ratting in 0.1 belts with no problems at all. I hit for like 90-210 with my Heavy Missiles, but only 15-80 with my lasers (this is from the light hit, to perfect hit). I usually hit for 15-40 as perfect hits are rare, with some Medium Pulse Laser I Turrets, and Standard M crystals. This seems VERY low to me! I mean my friend thats 4 days old (I'm 15 days old) in a Punisher Frigate can hit for the same... Is it because oh the Standard M? is it the Gun? or what is it??? Heres another problem I got challenged the other day by a Minmatar Frigate, and ofc I accept as his a frigate Now what happens is that I instantly web him (so I can hit him well) and it starts good, I go into the Armor in no time, but then! I stopped doing dmg... I simply couldn't do a thing. Ofc I got nevous and just fired everything away, still nothing, he gets into my armor. Now i'm really getting forstruated and I start repairing ofc. Already here I can see its not going good, but are still confident that I can do it, but then his friend in a Tristan comes in and helps (theres writen missiles all over these guys) and I know the fight is lost. What went wrong here? I really need to know I know I'm new, but it really seems like Amarr SUCK! to resume, I want answer on how to increase my dmg and what the **** went wrong in the frigate battle Only constructive feedback plz
Karille Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.03 08:02:00 - [2] First of all, what region are you ratting in, the rats resistances play a large role in damage. Second, what is the rate of fire on your missiles as compared to your guns. The guns are almost certainly shooting faster, so: (smaller damage + faster shooting)=(large damage + slow shooting) I dont know what to tell you about the frigate beating you, but its certainly possible. He was probably tanked very well to the amarr damage types so you werent hurting him very much. And of course, 2 frigates can take out an omen almost any day. The tristan is no joke.
Gift Amarr Loot	Posted - 2006.09.03 08:36:00 - [3] Amarr is limmited to 2 damage types & will always have a hard time with armor. If you're not too far into your skill training I suggest trying another race. Pirates of Eve, Join channel "Pirate" Today!
Karille Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.03 08:49:00 - [4] i wouldnt say to pick another race alltogether, but projectile weapons work pretty well on amarr ships too
Gift Amarr Loot	Posted - 2006.09.03 08:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Karille i wouldnt say to pick another race alltogether, but projectile weapons work pretty well on amarr ships too I was implying another race of ships, to be clear. Pirates of Eve, Join channel "Pirate" Today!
VIctoria Ballentyne Minmatar Pale Riders Incorporated	Posted - 2006.09.03 11:20:00 - [6] Unless you really don't like them go with another race as the others say. That being said I switched over to Amarr ships from Minnie ships and havn't regretted it yet. Get your gunnery skills up, get drone backup and choose other crystals. I run with named pulse lasers, multi/ultraviolet/rat radio on my Omen with drones and assault missiles. It handles everything that's been thrown at it so far, including player rat. "Forbid a man to think for himself or to act for himself and you may add the joy of piracy and the zest of smuggling to his life"
Gamesguy	Posted - 2006.09.03 11:29:00 - [7] Oh and dont use an omen. The Maller can do everything the Omen can do and better.
Rina Shanu Terror Raising Agenda	Posted - 2006.09.03 11:48:00 - [8] I switched from gall to caldari to minn and am now loving ammar :) They have a series of benefits: simpleness. All you have to do as ammar is get your gunnery skills up, armor skills up, be able to fit whatever ship you are flying as intented. To the op: know yer ship. The Omen is a skill intensive ship mate, so for low SP characters it is best to use the Maller, more exactly the "DuraMaller". About damage done by yer guns and all: guns are affected by "tracking", "optimal" shooting distance, "damage" multiplyer and type and some other stuff. With missiles in general it is simpler. In the long run best stick with guns. As a poster above said, smaller damagefaster shooting rate = greater damageslower shooting rate. These are affected by yer skills points placement. For instance if you trained 200k into missiles and 50k into gunnery your missiles will hit a bit better. etc. you get the point. As for shooting at the frigs: a) you lack skills to use properly a medium gun and an omen => stupid damage, fire rate, tracking. b) a frig has a much smaller signature radius from a cruiser => your lack in skills plus their skills = your death
Jonathan Davis Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.09.03 12:17:00 - [9] Hmmm, I think I see the problem here. Whilst all the other posts are very good advice and should be paid close attention to, I think they missed a very hard to notice part of your setup; Quote: some Medium Pulse Laser I Turrets Now, unless I am being really stupid here Medium pulse lasers are actually frigate guns. So when you say; Quote: my friend thats 4 days old (I'm 15 days old) in a Punisher Frigate can hit for the same... It is because you are actually usuing similar/the same weapons. Try buying some 'Heavy Pulse Laser 1s' or other such cruiser sized guns to see a marked increase in your damage done . -
Highlord Nicolai	Posted - 2006.09.03 12:50:00 - [10] Originally by: Jonathan Davis Hmmm, I think I see the problem here. Whilst all the other posts are very good advice and should be paid close attention to, I think they missed a very hard to notice part of your setup; Quote: some Medium Pulse Laser I Turrets Now, unless I am being really stupid here Medium pulse lasers are actually frigate guns. So when you say; Quote: my friend thats 4 days old (I'm 15 days old) in a Punisher Frigate can hit for the same... It is because you are actually usuing similar/the same weapons. Try buying some 'Heavy Pulse Laser 1s' or other such cruiser sized guns to see a marked increase in your damage done . They are the Size "Medium" which is cruiser guns. Light is Frigate, and Heavy is Battleship guns
Jonathan Davis Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.09.03 12:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Highlord Nicolai Originally by: Jonathan Davis Hmmm, I think I see the problem here. Whilst all the other posts are very good advice and should be paid close attention to, I think they missed a very hard to notice part of your setup; Quote: some Medium Pulse Laser I Turrets Now, unless I am being really stupid here Medium pulse lasers are actually frigate guns. So when you say; Quote: my friend thats 4 days old (I'm 15 days old) in a Punisher Frigate can hit for the same... It is because you are actually usuing similar/the same weapons. Try buying some 'Heavy Pulse Laser 1s' or other such cruiser sized guns to see a marked increase in your damage done . They are the Size "Medium" which is cruiser guns. Light is Frigate, and Heavy is Battleship guns Yeha, i was just saying for some reason light pulse lasers are called 'medium', medium 'heavy' and heavy 'dual heavy'. Worth checking out, although I could just have misunderstood the OP. -
Constantine Arcanum Gallente IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2006.09.03 13:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Highlord Nicolai Originally by: Jonathan Davis Hmmm, I think I see the problem here. Whilst all the other posts are very good advice and should be paid close attention to, I think they missed a very hard to notice part of your setup; Quote: some Medium Pulse Laser I Turrets Now, unless I am being really stupid here Medium pulse lasers are actually frigate guns. So when you say; Quote: my friend thats 4 days old (I'm 15 days old) in a Punisher Frigate can hit for the same... It is because you are actually usuing similar/the same weapons. Try buying some 'Heavy Pulse Laser 1s' or other such cruiser sized guns to see a marked increase in your damage done . They are the Size "Medium" which is cruiser guns. Light is Frigate, and Heavy is Battleship guns Are you sure? Cause Amarr have some weird naming patterns. It goes like this: Frigate class guns are called Medium Lasers Cruiser class guns are called Heavy Lasers Battleship class guns are called Mega Lasers Capital class guns are called Giga Lasers (the last one is irrelevant, but I put it there to give you an idea of how they are named). There are also sub-classes of lasers, for example Dual Light (small), Quad Light/ Focused (medium size) and Dual Heavy (large). --------------------------------------------- I nerfed my own sig :( I helped - Cortes Damn you Cortes What a shiny and lovely place here - Eshtir Well lets make it a party atleast - Xorus
Highlord Nicolai	Posted - 2006.09.03 13:03:00 - [13] No thats not true, they have: Light, and Light Medium (its just labbeled Medium but its understand Light still) for Frigates Medium and Medium Heavy (same deal as with the other one) and so on
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.03 13:39:00 - [14] Originally by: Highlord Nicolai I know I'm new, but it really seems like Amarr SUCK! You need alot more game experience. The guy you were fighting was minmatar so he likely armor tanked his ship. Thats why you easily killed the shield. Also lasers are the best in the game vs shields. Then you hit his armor, which has high em/thermal damage resistance if he is armor tanking it. Thats why you had difficulties with it. About your hits... missiles hit for good damage even with very low skills. Gun arent like that... you need to train all your gunnery skills to a good level to really make the most of them. And people who say you should train projectiles to use with amarr ships... thats basicly because you can switch ammo with projectiles and do different damage than em/thermal. But since you dont get any bonuses to projectile guns, your dps will be quite low. You can use all your cap for tanking though, so it can be effective. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Sun Win Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2006.09.03 14:26:00 - [15] Some Amar ships like the Punisher and Maller don't get a DPS bonus anyway (they get resist bonus instead) so you can fit whatever you want on them and still be effective. Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2006.09.03 14:39:00 - [16] Edited by: murder one on 03/09/2006 14:39:11 to the OP: no, you're not missing anything, amarr as supposed to suck =] Because I said so...
TorpSpammer ExtraordinR	Posted - 2006.09.03 22:53:00 - [17] I don't know if amarr suck, I don't fly em BUT : you obviously dont know much about the game (guns comments), you got ganked, you died ... Happens to gallente, minmatar and caldari pilots every day
Galan Amarias	Posted - 2006.09.03 23:52:00 - [18] I'm low on time so my apologies if this has already been said.. I too fly amarr, your bigest problem is that you are only 15 days old. dock the Omen, get a Punisher. Work your gunnery skills, all of them, to the 3-4 range, don't worry about 5 just now. Work your engineering and your elecronics skills up to 3-4, especially the ones that increase the size and the regen rate of your capicator. Use Gamma crystals up close and Microwaves at range. The gammas are very nearly equal to Multi freq on dammage but they save you cap every time they shoot. The Micros will get you to 20km with most guns, and that's all you need for PVP, any further out than that and you should move away, then reaquire your target. As for what happened, you are new and as you have stated your guns do little dammage, because you were shooting at a frigatte your heavie missles also do little dammage, read the missle guides on blast radius vs sig radius. Your oponent had enough skill to tank your dammage, he could regen more armor than you could destroy and he had enough cap recharge to keep doing it. You can mess with cap recharge by fitting nos.(energy vampire) So, get a Maller if you insist on using a Cruiser. Train your gunnery, you will need to train gunnery, missles, and drones to get the most out of an Omen. With high gunnery skills you will be able to score much stronger hits, fire faster and cheaper. Amarr ships can be very succesful in PVP but their cap is their weak point. You have to defend that spot. -Galan
Pestillence Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.04 00:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Constantine Arcanum Are you sure? Cause Amarr have some weird naming patterns. It goes like this: Frigate class guns are called Medium Lasers Cruiser class guns are called Heavy Lasers Battleship class guns are called Mega Lasers Capital class guns are called Giga Lasers (the last one is irrelevant, but I put it there to give you an idea of how they are named). There are also sub-classes of lasers, for example Dual Light (small), Quad Light/ Focused (medium size) and Dual Heavy (large). This is correct. In addition missiles fire half as often (roughly) as lasers. Even though they give a damage hit that looks cool they dont do it often.
xenodia Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2006.09.04 07:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Highlord Nicolai Ok here we go I'm flying an Omen (Amarr Cruiser) and I'm ratting in 0.1 belts with no problems at all. I hit for like 90-210 with my Heavy Missiles, but only 15-80 with my lasers (this is from the light hit, to perfect hit). I usually hit for 15-40 as perfect hits are rare, with some Medium Pulse Laser I Turrets, and Standard M crystals. This seems VERY low to me! I mean my friend thats 4 days old (I'm 15 days old) in a Punisher Frigate can hit for the same... Is it because oh the Standard M? is it the Gun? or what is it??? Heres another problem I got challenged the other day by a Minmatar Frigate, and ofc I accept as his a frigate Now what happens is that I instantly web him (so I can hit him well) and it starts good, I go into the Armor in no time, but then! I stopped doing dmg... I simply couldn't do a thing. Ofc I got nevous and just fired everything away, still nothing, he gets into my armor. Now i'm really getting forstruated and I start repairing ofc. Already here I can see its not going good, but are still confident that I can do it, but then his friend in a Tristan comes in and helps (theres writen missiles all over these guys) and I know the fight is lost. What went wrong here? I really need to know I know I'm new, but it really seems like Amarr SUCK! to resume, I want answer on how to increase my dmg and what the **** went wrong in the frigate battle Only constructive feedback plz Beam weapons are great against shields, but sucky against armor. This is not in any way a new development. Other races have it the other way around (hard to get through shields, but once youre in armor youre golden). TNT website here or killboard here
Fto Cruise	Posted - 2006.09.04 20:28:00 - [21] So, Medium Pulse Laser I with Standard M? You're either using those guns with Standard S or you're using Focused Medium Pulse Laser I, which I've never been a fan of. As has been suggested, try a couple of Heavy Pulse Laser I or even Heavy Beams. Good luck!
Rina Shanu Peace Loving Criminals	Posted - 2006.09.04 21:04:00 - [22] Mate give the ships and modules a read. Also you could give me a mail ingame. I'll help as I can ;) - get that cruiser working RECRUITMENT Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Shiner BockBeer Go Go Gadget ForumPostingAlt	Posted - 2006.09.04 23:54:00 - [23] I'm going to try not to duplicate anything said above. Just going to try and clear up some confusion... On minmatar T1 frigs, shield resist to EM is 0% Armor EM resist starts at 60%. So laser weapons cut through shields in no time but have a lot more trouble with minatar armor because regardless of crystal type the damage is cut down considerably by resistance. As for weapon sizes, you re correct that they are small medium and large (and xlarge) but that's weapon SIZE rather than weapon NAME. To spell it out: Small size laser weapons are named: Light or medium (Dual light pulse laser I or Medium Beam Laser I) Medium size laser weapons are named: Focused, Quad or heavy (Quad Light Beam laser I or Heavy Pulse Laser II or Focused Medium Beam Laser I) Large size laser weaapons are named: Mega or Dual Heavy (Dual Heavy Beam Laser I or Megae Pulse Laser I) So what's important isn't the NAME but the SIZE constraint displayed on the weapon. It will be S, M, or L. That being said there are effective fittings using small size lasers on amarr cruisers, particularly in the anti-frig role. What really wnet wrong in the fight you describe is that you were not aware of your enemy's ship's capabilities. (nor of the fact that he had a friend waiting to jack you up bigtime. So as a recomendation, refit your Omen as an all turret ship. Missiles look like they give sexy damage, but you don't get any ship bonuses for them on an Omen. For anti-frig go with something like: Hi: 4X Focused Medium Pulse I 1X Medium Nos Med: 1XScram 1XCap Charger 1XWeb Lows: Armor tank stuffs, reactor controls/etc to make everything above fit. See if that helps.
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.05 08:06:00 - [24] Originally by: fixed ;P On minmatar T1 frigs, shield resist to EM is 0% Armor EM resist starts at 70% because the devs think a flat 10% increase to resists is the same whether the base value is 10% or 60% :( Fixed =/
Laythun Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.05 11:12:00 - [25] Originally by: Highlord Nicolai with some Medium Pulse Laser I Turrets, Originally by: Highlord Nicolai I got challenged the other day by a Minmatar Frigate, and ofc I accept as his a frigate There was only 2 problems you had. Lasers aginas those dirty minmatar are a pain in the preverbial backside. and as stated, used med weaps to get more dmg. BUT make sure your gunnery skills are getting up to scratch, sharpshooter, rapdi firiing, controlled bursts, motion prediction etc. you will need to train these in time to become profficient with lasers and turrets in general. *See You In Space Cowboy*

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