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Jhix Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.03 08:36:00 - [1] While being in the service of the glorious Amarr empire i sometimes rescue "free" slaves. These poor people seem to think that they are free, while in reality they are captured in their weak Minmatar bodies. Trying to be a good and kind person. I offcourse want to help these people to become all that they can be. To do that i somehow need a way to remove this false "free" feeling. I have however been unable to find a way to do this. So im wondering if anyone out there have found a way to help these "free" slaves to just become slaves. So that they can once more start on the path of becoming something more than just a Minmatar. /Jhix of the house Toda Glory to the empire
Kaleigh Doyle Rho Dynamics	Posted - 2006.09.03 17:30:00 - [2] I've heard from some very successful holders that paying these slaves a decent wage, giving them proper housing and amenities, and allowing them to come and go as they please actually encourages them to be more than just a Minmatar. It might even pursuade them to be loyal and effective servants of God. Food for thought.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:28:00 - [3] Quote: "I've heard from some very successful holders that paying these slaves a decent wage, giving them proper housing and amenities, and allowing them to come and go as they please actually encourages them to be more than just a Minmatar. It might even pursuade them to be loyal and effective servants of God." EVE Online \| EVE Insider \| Forums \| 203
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:28:00 - [4] Quote: "I've heard from some very successful holders that paying these slaves a decent wage, giving them proper housing and amenities, and allowing them to come and go as they please actually encourages them to be more than just a Minmatar. It might even pursuade them to be loyal and effective servants of God." Pay them? We spend a fortune as it is on housing, education, medical care, religious orientation, etc. All this we do for them when a robot could do the work much more efficiently, accurately and cheaply. Why do we do this? Because we must Enlighten as God commands. We are the chosen and it is our sacred duty. These Minmatar have wasted their lives. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Kaleigh Doyle Rho Dynamics	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:41:00 - [5] If you were actually concerned for the welfare of the Minmatar people, then you wouldn't be quibbling over the cost to support them. If you're going to take it upon yourself to be caretakers over others, at least try to pretend you care about them.
Yoshito Sanders Amarr Ubiqua Seraph Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.09.03 20:30:00 - [6] The Amarr do care about their slaves. More than the Gallente care about their workers, for sure. The truth is, our working class structures aren't that different. The Gallente pay their workers a wage, which the workers then are supposed to spend on food, clothing, shelter, medical attention, and the needs of life. The Amarr provide our slaves with those things directly, cutting the middle man out of the process. Only with the Amarr, we make sure that the slaves get the things they need, along with an education in God, while the Gallente workers are free to waste their money on sinful and frivolous things like holoreels and drugs. It seems to me that we care more about our workforce than the Gallente care about theirs. The Gallente are content with letting their workers destroy their minds, bodies, and souls with tripe and sin. The Amarr make sure that doesn't happen.
Arkillus Uzra Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.03 23:30:00 - [7] The gallente give their works the opportunity to better themselves or fall behind by their own wimps. A slave isn't given this freedom and doesn't have the ability to "become" anything more.
Gorban Darr Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.04 01:55:00 - [8] Originally by: Arkillus Uzra The gallente give their works the opportunity to better themselves or fall behind by their own wimps. A slave isn't given this freedom and doesn't have the ability to "become" anything more. To the contrary. A slave becomes precisely what his master wishes him to become. Simply because one is in servitude does not mean there is no improvement, no opportunities, no growth, no betterment. Just as God ordains the superior place of the Amarr in the order of the universe, so too is the place of the slave ordained. Within these roles, it is every soul's duty and aspiration to live up to one's full potential, whether master or servant. Gorban Darr Overseer Holder Prospects, Limited
Salu Dai Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.04 03:36:00 - [9] Enlightenment through abject servitude? How can one realise the 'higher plane' or whatever you call it, when one is ground underfoot? Surely you want to promote the freedom of mind that begets enlightenment? You can't expect this spiritual freedom to arise when the physical freedom is denied. Or does the Amarr cherish the 'enlightenment' found at the end of a phasor whip? I've seen the hollow eyes of men and women broken by slavery walking the streets of the refuge slums of Bourynes. Despite gaining their freedom... they never escape it. It saddens my heart. Salu Dai
Yoshito Sanders Amarr Ubiqua Seraph Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.09.04 05:21:00 - [10] It's probably the "freedom" that they "achieved" that gives them those listless, lost looks. How would you feel if, suddenly, you were thrown from a life of good, hard work under the teachings of God into a filthy slum where crime is rampant and there's no guarantee of a roof over your head or food in your belly? I bet you would shuffle around, hungry and confused, broken even. The Empire betters slaves by teaching them about God and how to achieve everlasting peace in the afterlife. And before you ask the inevitable "Well, why aren't the Amarr slaves?", let me answer you. We are, we are merely slaves to God Himself.
Shanaya Venn Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.04 07:45:00 - [11] Edited by: Shanaya Venn on 04/09/2006 07:46:32 Edited by: Shanaya Venn on 04/09/2006 07:45:32 never mind. I just better stay out of this one.
Gorban Darr Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.04 07:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Salu Dai Enlightenment through abject servitude? How can one realise the 'higher plane' or whatever you call it, when one is ground underfoot? What makes you think servitude must be "abject", or entail being "ground underfoot"? Those states are not the most productive ones for slaves to live in, that's certain. There is great freedom in a life of service. But I suppose that is a concept too sophisticated for a simple self-centric Gallente to grasp. More's the pity. If you were capable of conceiving of this, you as a people would make much better slaves. The Minmatar seem to grasp it intuitively. Gorban Darr Overseer Holder Prospects, Limited
Salu Dai Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.04 13:33:00 - [13] I admit that I don't understand... Blame my upbringing. But in the spirit of enlightenment, answer me this: What freedoms does a life of slavery permit you?
Yoshito Sanders Amarr Ubiqua Seraph Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.09.05 00:13:00 - [14] The freedom to not worry about food, clothing, and shelter. The freedom to raise children in a safe, secure environment under the service of God. The freedom of knowing that through hard work and faith, your immortal soul will forever be part of God's domain. Now, what freedoms do living in the Gallente Federation supply? The freedom to spend your wage on drugs and prostitutes? What about in the Minmatar Republic? The freedom to cower in a hovel, hoping rapists and murderers don't break into your home and steal everything you have?
Camar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.09.05 11:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Yo**o Sanders The freedom to not worry about food, clothing, and shelter. The freedom to raise children in a safe, secure environment under the service of God. The freedom of knowing that through hard work and faith, your immortal soul will forever be part of God's domain. This made me burst out with laughter, are we going to go over the same things again? Slavery holds one purpose and one only - Power. All this has been discussed back and forth a million times and yet the old arguments come up? The least thing you can do now is try to be inventive, like telling the truth? "Education" and "taken care of"...mmmm Yes, indeed. A few million slaves dying in mines where no food is distributed or anything else - until they die. But yes, you do bring them closer to your God by taking the lives of millions.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.05 12:03:00 - [16] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/09/2006 12:02:47 Originally by: Camar "Education" and "taken care of"...mmmm Yes, indeed. A few million slaves dying in mines where no food is distributed or anything else - until they die. But yes, you do bring them closer to your God by taking the lives of millions. It's better to die in the service of God than to die as a penniless alcoholic in the gutters of Pator or Gallente Prime Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Camar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.09.05 12:56:00 - [17] Edited by: Camar on 05/09/2006 13:01:25 I agree with you to a certain point Mr. Rodj, that it is better to die for a cause then not. [Edit] This why there cannot be peace between our nations, you fight for your belives, let them be god and/or empire, and me in the seven and/or the republic. And the above where we agree is what makes this peace impossible.[/Edit] But why this untrue illusion of poverty among those released? Not a single individual released among the hundreds of thousands we have released so far is either poor or living in the gutter. The pure truth is that most chose to pursue a career within the ranks of SRS, those who did not were given an education of their choice and isk enough to make a good living for years, as well as free transport anywhere in the galaxy. So the truth about the illusion about this would thus be: Fear, cause the resistant into being assimilated into the empire increases. Not to mention these are often the most fierce and dedicated fighters when it comes to opposing the amarr.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.05 13:00:00 - [18] Originally by: Camar Not a single individual released among the hundreds of thousands we have released so far is either poor or living in the gutter. You keep tabs on every single one of them, do you? Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Camar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.09.05 13:13:00 - [19] For this last question Rodj, as my paranoid side begins to tingle knowing where it will lead. Yes, we keep records of every single we release. Those who remain in our ranks records are still kept as any military organisation would do. We do not maintain records of those who wish us to erase such information when leaving us, that has yet to happen. Most wish us to keep records for 3-5 years so we can still contact them, or be of assistant in a non military way. They are also given ways to contact us if need would arise. Yes, this practice is very costly, since SRS do not only have military divisions, but also divisions to make sure freed slaves have to end up in the gutter. I am certain however that in the future there will be individuals who will not wish us to keep records for any amount of time and refuse to contact us even if they would need to. But they have made their own choice regarding their own situation in that case and it is not for me to impose or force them to something else.
Yoshito Sanders Amarr Ubiqua Seraph Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:27:00 - [20] You keep tabs on the hundreds you free. Do you also keep tabs on the millions you slaughter in the name of "freedom"? Or on their families, now deprived of their fathers and mothers, brothers or sisters? Even assuming that setting slaves "free" helps them, you ruin more lives than you "save".
Camar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.09.06 01:43:00 - [21] Mr. Yo****o Sanders, we do not deny what we do and we certainly do not do it in the name of freedom. We do this in the name of our desire to annihilate your empire. Once your god is dead slavery will cease to exist. "Freedom" is at best our third objective, with annihilation of the amarr empire and your god on the two first ones. I will not claim to be the "good" guy, nor will any SRS, simply because we are not. There is a very distinct line between what we are doing and, lets say Ushra'Khan are doing. We admire them for their honor, integrity and high standards. Electus Matari and NMTZ we also honor and respect. With this said it does NOT mean we are not freeing brethren as well, and rather often it seems. The previous posts are just an example on how a small pod-pilot based corporation work with freed slaves and the support that is given them. Do you not think larger and fully dedicated corporations/allianes to freedomfighting do more? It also points out the whole rethoric thrown back and fourth and that it for the most part lacks truth. None of this age will bow to the propaganda thrown either way, nor will our future generations. Only if you manage to re-conquer the matari and kill the thought of resistant will you win. And as for us, nor will we win unless we make sure the amarr will cease their idea of expanding their empire. And of course we/SRS do not think that is possible unless it's burned to ashes. You keep and take new slaves for a reason, just don't hide behind clouded reasons. I am certain your God does not like lies or that reasons in his name are to be hidden away, as if it were shameful.
Karl Mattar Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.06 04:30:00 - [22] I frequently come across these escaped louts languishing in a cargo container as some smuggler tries to take them across State space. I do feel pity for them. They have come so far towards their dreams of freedom that they have lost any hope of a successful life of service. However, they have fallen into my hands, and I cannot in good faith allow them to go forth and breed more enemies of the Empire. The Empire is a fond ally of the State, and I will not do harm to my friends there. Gladly, I would return them to the Empire for the uplifting experience they might find there. Unfortunately, since I cannot return them as merely having them aboard is illegal in State space, I do the next best thing. I grant them their freedom. There is always the passing chance that a Minmatar terrorist vessel might retrieve them before the cargo cannister falls into the gravity well of the sun, or they run out of air, so I use the cannister for target practice. A waste of expensive ammo, I know, but I feel it is the right thing to do.
Salu Dai Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.06 04:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Karl Mattar There is always the passing chance that a Minmatar terrorist vessel might retrieve them before the cargo cannister falls into the gravity well of the sun, or they run out of air, so I use the cannister for target practice. A waste of expensive ammo, I know, but I feel it is the right thing to do. Monstrous! Is this a corporate policy or a personal one? I hope we never meet Karl Mattar.
Gorban Darr Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.06 05:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Camar Slavery holds one purpose and one only - Power. A common fallacy. Quote: All this has been discussed back and forth a million times And yet individuals such as yourself remain as unenlightened as ever. Quote: "Education" and "taken care of"...mmmm Yes, indeed. A few million slaves dying in mines where no food is distributed or anything else - until they die. Don't believe all the propaganda you hear. What is the good to us, if our tools are wasted? It's an economic issue. See below. Quote: Slavery is Power, a way to expand and integrate the future generations of a race by having brainwashed and/or killed parents/grandparents. Why use slaves as workforce? Working people to death and raise thier children tend to achive this. What a nonsensical rendering of the essence of slavery and the slave system. Slavery is fundamentally about economics (as well as the issue of spiritually ordained existance, but let's not complicate this - for you, intentionally simplistic - conversation with theology at the moment.) The power dynamics that make this system possible do indeed revolve around the wise use of power, but that factor (power dynamics) is what makes an effective (emphasis on "effective") slave economy possible. Power, in and of itself, is not the end-all, be-all of a slave-based economic system. To say otherwise is to confuse the mechanism with the machine. A not-uncommon failing in your sort. Gorban Darr Overseer Holder Prospects, Limited
Rjak Teken'duis Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.06 06:11:00 - [25] Originally by: Karl Mattar There is always the passing chance that a Minmatar terrorist vessel might retrieve them before the cargo cannister falls into the gravity well of the sun, or they run out of air, so I use the cannister for target practice. A waste of expensive ammo, I know, but I feel it is the right thing to do. I should sincerely hope that my collegue here speaks in jest, however unhumorous the attempt was. As much as I disapprove of the general practice of slavery, and the need to prevent former slaves from returning to Matari space and becoming fanatic terrorists, the thought of anyone - much less an esteemed member of the Naval Resreve - sacrificing innocent life for the sake of "target practice" sickens me. In absolute honesty, I cannot see even the Amarr condoning this kind of behavior. I recognize the dilemma that many Caldari pilots must confront when they recover a few freed slaves in the course of their duties. However one must learn to balance the legality (or lack thereof) of the slave-trade in Caldari space with the humane treatment of the downtrodden. Any slaves I recover currently reside in one of my less-used fleet hangars, where they are welcome to stay until such time as they find meaningful work in the Caldari State or Amarr Empire. Lt. Commander Rjak Teken'duis Caldari Independent Naval Reserve
Karl Mattar Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.06 13:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Salu Dai Monstrous! Is this a corporate policy or a personal one? I hope we never meet Karl Mattar. It's a personal policy. The Directive has no guidelines on the disposal of salvage. We are free to dispose of it as we wish. We are not allowed to transport or possess illegal goods though. That is a regulation my comrades should remember. Salu Dai, it is doubtful we will ever meet. Your Federation is only too happy to train their guns on my vessel's signature. So much for glasnost.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.06 14:09:00 - [27] Originally by: Camar Yes, we keep records of every single we release. Those who remain in our ranks records are still kept as any military organisation would do. I'm sure that being numbered, catalogued and filed makes them feel really free. Whatever happened to "I am not a number, I am a free man"... Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Camar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.09.06 16:59:00 - [28] I can't deny that the exact phrase you decided to use Rodj appeals to me, yet I can't pinpoint from where. Perhaps it has to do with Iron and Maiden? (()) But on a more serious note, it would be a bit hard to pay out salary having no information about the individual working for us. There is a reason all our organisations are called "corporations" after all. And as any organisation I have a personal interest in knowing exactly whom I employ and what work that individual does for me/SRS.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.06 18:59:00 - [29] Originally by: Camar I can't deny that the exact phrase you decided to use Rodj appeals to me, yet I can't pinpoint from where. Perhaps it has to do with Iron and Maiden? (()) But on a more serious note, it would be a bit hard to pay out salary having no information about the individual working for us. There is a reason all our organisations are called "corporations" after all. And as any organisation I have a personal interest in knowing exactly whom I employ and what work that individual does for me/SRS. Quite an appropiate phrase I thought, seeing as how it seems more and more like you keep these "freed" slaves as virtual prisoners. Let's get one thing straight. These people perform tasks for you, and in return you give them money, which they then use to procure food and shelter. We do much the same in the Empire except that we save them the hassle of working out how to spend their money - we just directly give them the food and shelter instead. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Hori To Minmatar Rifter Corp	Posted - 2006.09.06 19:21:00 - [30] the difference is Rodj, your slaves can not quit and find something else to do. A man or woman should be free to do their own mistakes and learn from them.

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