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Marcus Tedric
Tedric Enterprises
The Star League
23
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Posted - 2014.11.30 12:34:16 -
[1] - Quote
Defender missiles are a nice idea, but severely under used, most probably only seen when in combat with NPCs and only serve to reduce the impact of a missile volley and just make the NPC ship's demise a little slower.
Defender missiles could be changed to the idea below, or re-badged to 'Anti-Missile Defenders' (AMDs) and a new, but similar, type introduced:
The 'Anti-Drone Defender' (ADDs)
- A defender missile that fires on the nearest enemy drone
Does not replace FoFs (also somewhat under-used, but with a particular role - one that could be 'tweaked' to only fire at ships with the ADDs introduction).
The ADDs could be used in all current Heavy Missile and Light Missile launchers - including the Rapid versions.
Goodness, it might even help against Ishtars...... |
Lugh Crow-Slave
244
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Posted - 2014.11.30 12:36:26 -
[2] - Quote
why would i give a high slot up for this when i could just fit a rocket? |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
83
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Posted - 2014.11.30 13:22:54 -
[3] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:why would i give a high slot up for this when i could just fit a rocket?/missile
Maybe if it worked right, it might find use on turret fit mixed slot ships, like many Minmatar and a few Amarr boats.
Fit a rapid launch launcher in the slot, and use it in defense.
/shrug
Maybe.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck
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Uther Mckay
Covert Crops Inc.
Justice League of Space
4
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Posted - 2014.11.30 15:23:34 -
[4] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:Defender missiles are a nice idea, but severely under used, most probably only seen when in combat with NPCs and only serve to reduce the impact of a missile volley and just make the NPC ship's demise a little slower. Defender missiles could be changed to the idea below, or re-badged to 'Anti-Missile Defenders' (AMDs) and a new, but similar, type introduced: The ' Anti-Drone Defender' (ADDs) - A defender missile that fires on the nearest enemy droneDoes not replace FoFs (also somewhat under-used, but with a particular role - one that could be 'tweaked' to only fire at ships with the ADDs introduction). The ADDs could be used in all current Heavy Missile and Light Missile launchers - including the Rapid versions. Goodness, it might even help against Ishtars......
OR..... you could just use smartbombs
When backed against a wall, we show what monsters we really are.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1002
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Posted - 2014.11.30 15:27:56 -
[5] - Quote
Uther Mckay wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:Defender missiles are a nice idea, but severely under used, most probably only seen when in combat with NPCs and only serve to reduce the impact of a missile volley and just make the NPC ship's demise a little slower. Defender missiles could be changed to the idea below, or re-badged to 'Anti-Missile Defenders' (AMDs) and a new, but similar, type introduced: The ' Anti-Drone Defender' (ADDs) - A defender missile that fires on the nearest enemy droneDoes not replace FoFs (also somewhat under-used, but with a particular role - one that could be 'tweaked' to only fire at ships with the ADDs introduction). The ADDs could be used in all current Heavy Missile and Light Missile launchers - including the Rapid versions. Goodness, it might even help against Ishtars...... OR..... you could just use smartbombs
smartbombs are not much use if your in high sec
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Iain Cariaba
660
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Posted - 2014.11.30 17:25:58 -
[6] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:Defender missiles are a nice idea, but severely under used, most probably only seen when in combat with NPCs and only serve to reduce the impact of a missile volley and just make the NPC ship's demise a little slower. Defender missiles could be changed to the idea below, or re-badged to 'Anti-Missile Defenders' (AMDs) and a new, but similar, type introduced: The ' Anti-Drone Defender' (ADDs) - A defender missile that fires on the nearest enemy droneDoes not replace FoFs (also somewhat under-used, but with a particular role - one that could be 'tweaked' to only fire at ships with the ADDs introduction). The ADDs could be used in all current Heavy Missile and Light Missile launchers - including the Rapid versions. Goodness, it might even help against Ishtars......
Regular light missiles and rockets work just fine against drones. Use them.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Marcus Tedric
Tedric Enterprises
The Star League
23
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Posted - 2014.11.30 22:06:46 -
[7] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:why would i give a high slot up for this when i could just fit a rocket?/missile
No Hi slot is given up - it's just another ammo choice.
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Regular light missiles and rockets work just fine against drones. Use them.
Yes, they can, it's just a lot more to target and should reasonably be a completely expected auto-target requirement for an FCS.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions
Poopstain Removal Team
494
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Posted - 2014.11.30 23:19:07 -
[8] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:why would i give a high slot up for this when i could just fit a rocket?/missile Maybe if it worked right, it might find use on turret fit mixed slot ships, like many Minmatar and a few Amarr boats. Fit a rapid launch launcher in the slot, and use it in defense. /shrug Maybe. --Gadget
But then the almighty neut is missing. If whine-matar don't fit a neut or 23474701156056802672 of them, they cannot win.
Ship too fast, must neut errthing..
And maybe if missiles were a thread to begin with, anti-missile missiles could be looked at once more.
The description on the FOF missiles is confusing. A few decades ago, I was playing thing combat heli simulation - Comanche.
A nice heli with a minigun and a few missiles.
Anyway, in EVE FOF means "friend or foe" but in Comanche the Hellfire missile is called "fire and forget" missile and with good reason.
signature
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2011
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:10:29 -
[9] - Quote
I prefer my older suggestion on the last defender missile thread: both make defenders fire from a mid slot (still requiring a launcher hardpoint) and make them able to target both missiles and drones. Like F.o.F. they should be capable of firing when you have nothing targeted, but unlike F.o.F. they should prefer your selected target (or the missiles/drones of selected target) if you have one. They should prefer missiles over drones.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
84
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Posted - 2014.12.01 03:13:56 -
[10] - Quote
I noticed something while playing around on an alt yesterday, something that might relate to this discussion. I was doing a mission and I found myself unable to fire any of my missile launchers at anything that I had targetted. I docked, relaunched, and went back through the mission gates. Once again I could target all day long, but I couldn't fire. So I tried changing to a different ammo. Suddenly everything worked fine, and the rats died properly.
I found out a bit later why nothing was working. My previous mission was against Guristas, and I spent the majority of it being ECM'ed. Since I was in a missile ship, I just switched to FOF missiles and let fly. However, I had forgotten to reload normal missiles after the mission.
I ran some tests once I discoverd this mistake, and the tests show that a pilot cannot fire FOF missiles if something (anything as far as I can tell) is targetted. If you voluntarily untarget everything, then the FOF missiles work fine.
Now, to why this story is important to this thread.
The matter has been brought up as to why not just use regular missiles for defense instead of these proposed ADD's? If the ADD's were to go directly to the closest drones, then they would likely be under the FOF rules, unless those were re-written. If that were the case, then the ADD's wouldn't work all to well if you had something else targetted. If you did have a drone targetted, then just use a regular missile.
As is, I don't see a need for ADD's, even though I would love to see defender missiles actual be useful. These missiles would be far too specialized to ever see any use. Regular missiles work just fine against drones, and if you're ECM'ed, then FOF missiles will work just as well, since they tend to go to the closest target which will likely be the drones circling your ship.
As this proposal stands, I have to give it a -1.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck
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Foxicity
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
25
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Posted - 2014.12.01 04:17:48 -
[11] - Quote
Why don't we roll a defender buff and drone nerf all into one? Let defenders automatically smack missiles and add the ability to smack drones. Light drones will die in a couple/few salvos while mediums and heavies will require multiple defender missiles fitted to take them down quickly enough to change the outcome of the fight. Requiring many hits, and more importantly, taking longer than a player could do it manually, will keep this from becoming an earth shattering drone destroyer.
I'm picturing it would become a viable utility high, with some gangs choosing to field dedicated anti-drone missile boats. I think it would become a frequently, but not always-used, high slot module that provides a viable counter to some of the drone-centric fits that many regard as overpowered, particularly the 2-drone Gurista boats.
Opinions? |
Kampfgruppen Leiter
Sagaris Industries
0
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Posted - 2015.01.10 09:37:58 -
[12] - Quote
Foxicity wrote:Why don't we roll a defender buff and drone nerf all into one? Let defenders automatically smack missiles and add the ability to smack drones. Light drones will die in a couple/few salvos while mediums and heavies will require multiple defender missiles fitted to take them down quickly enough to change the outcome of the fight. Requiring many hits, and more importantly, taking longer than a player could do it manually, will keep this from becoming an earth shattering drone destroyer.
I'm picturing it would become a viable utility high, with some gangs choosing to field dedicated anti-drone missile boats. I think it would become a frequently, but not always-used, high slot module that provides a viable counter to some of the drone-centric fits that many regard as overpowered, particularly the 2-drone Gurista boats.
Opinions?
Would like to see a separate hard point that does not interfere with a ships launcher hard points (DPS) so the modules and hard point would be called "Defender Missile Silos", "Drone Missile Silo", and the hardpoint would be 1 : silo hard-point, the reason nobody uses this call of weapon is because it interferes with dps so its always going to be unpopular to sacrifice dps for mild missile tank, but if its an extra slot and your pvp, pve fit is already maxed out on launcher points or turret points but you got a spare high slot then bang on a (low CPU low Power ) missile silo for extra high slot tank. some ships will not get this hardpoint and most would only get a token 1 , other ships may have 2 but at the very least this class of missile would be used as a form of tanking, or else dump the class altogether :-) |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
197
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Posted - 2015.01.10 13:48:09 -
[13] - Quote
Why not just kill the drones with my own? |
Kampfgruppen Leiter
Sagaris Industries
0
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Posted - 2015.01.10 14:20:56 -
[14] - Quote
My comment not really aimed at auto fighting drones more on the uselessness of defender missiles
1 hard-point separate from missile launcher hard- points so people dont have to chose between dps and mild missile tank |
Lugh Crow-Slave
432
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Posted - 2015.01.10 14:32:46 -
[15] - Quote
Kampfgruppen Leiter wrote:My comment not really aimed at auto fighting drones more on the uselessness of defender missiles
1 hard-point separate from missile launcher hard- points so people dont have to chose between dps and mild missile tank
so you are trying to force a more or less useless item into an area where there is no need? |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project
Surely You're Joking
632
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Posted - 2015.01.10 15:14:52 -
[16] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Regular light missiles and rockets work just fine against drones. Use them.
Yes, because locking up Warrior II's or EC-300s is just so quick and easy!
/sarasm
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Kampfgruppen Leiter
Sagaris Industries
0
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Posted - 2015.01.10 16:50:53 -
[17] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Kampfgruppen Leiter wrote:My comment not really aimed at auto fighting drones more on the uselessness of defender missiles
1 hard-point separate from missile launcher hard- points so people dont have to chose between dps and mild missile tank so you are trying to force a more or less useless item into an area where there is no need?
no they are useless because the conflict directly with a dps module, if they had a different type of hardpoint the player would use it much like stuffing the last high with a small nos except this would be missile tank |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
893
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Posted - 2015.01.10 19:03:39 -
[18] - Quote
Kampfgruppen Leiter wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Kampfgruppen Leiter wrote:My comment not really aimed at auto fighting drones more on the uselessness of defender missiles
1 hard-point separate from missile launcher hard- points so people dont have to chose between dps and mild missile tank so you are trying to force a more or less useless item into an area where there is no need? no they are useless because the conflict directly with a dps module, if they had a different type of hardpoint the player would use it much like stuffing the last high with a small nos except this would be missile tank
It would not be a taank it would be free additional weapons against drone pilots
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8394
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Posted - 2015.01.10 19:08:10 -
[19] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:
Regular light missiles and rockets work just fine against drones. Use them.
Yes, because locking up Warrior II's or EC-300s is just so quick and easy!/sarasm
better that than wasting a slot on defenders
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Faith Xavier
Eclipse Mariner
6
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Posted - 2015.01.11 20:41:10 -
[20] - Quote
In my opinion, the only way to make defender missiles viable is to give them their own launcher module with a very high capacity and rate of fire. Then, one or two ships in a fleet could be fit as dedicated anti-missile boats to protect everyone else. Alternatively, ships could be given defensive high slots just for defender modules (which could also be laser or projectile based), akin to the trinket slot for my fellow League of Legends players.
Unfortunately, this would be tons of work for CCP, and would make missiles a much weaker primary weapon system, meaning they would have to be buffed/completely rebalanced (and waaay OP for PvE applications where NPC's wouldn't be using defensive systems).
In other words, viable defender missiles mean upsetting game balance and tons of work. It just isn't worth it. |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
236
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Posted - 2015.01.11 22:22:19 -
[21] - Quote
Not supported.
Drones are actually a balanced weapon system with the exception of sentries, which themselves are not unbalanced, but are allowed on too many platforms (they should be a battleship only weapon).
While drones are very utilitarian and quite nasty, they can be outrun in some cases and suffer from delayed damage application finicky damage application. The bigger and deadlier drones can be shot fairly easily. They are actually a unique weapon among the four weapons in game (turrets, drones, missiles, bombs) and they have plusses and minuses. Their stats were rebalanced a while back and the balance was fairly successful.
Introducing a weapon that just flat out autoshoots them would be disastrous.
Fix the Ishtar and carriers by not letting them fit sentries. Don't introduce a module that completely ruins drones. |
Ben Ishikela
20
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Posted - 2015.03.03 15:02:02 -
[22] - Quote
Before CCP nerfed HAMs, imho they should have introduced a defender turret or buff defender missiles, that when fitted reduces the overall average damage done by the same amount that CCP reduced the damage output instead.
NPCs should use the tools that players can use. So effectively no missile overkill in missions.
As for the current perceived drone sentry overpowery, i fully support any feature that is a counterattack to it. nerfs are not good for the health of a game.
note: T3destroyers can destroy sentries fine in snipermode with the ability to tank(-mode). bring a squad of those (with trackingmods and sensor boosters), like you bring a squad of ewar to mitigate their dps.
No more nerfing of percieved Overpowered Content!
It makes a game boring after too many iterations. Instead add new modules or ships that can use tactics and strategies to fight the current Meta.
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