Originally by: lofty29

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An exploit is something that cannot be avoided. This can be avoided, quite easily.

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Originally by: tadig smik

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Originally by: Miss Overlord

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i agree anyone new joining teh gang existing gang members should be warned - this is a clear exploit but given the existing problems going on atm unlikley to be fixed (if its in a noob corp) dont gang with it

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You are warned... unless something has changed in the past 24 hours, you do get a warning when joining a gang where somebody is at war with somebody else...

If I invite to gang who is at war with somebody else, I get a 'dodgy candidate' warning...

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Originally by: Peri Helion

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Exploit?

Well, if CCP defines Exploit and they say this isn't, then it isn't.

Good gaming?

Well, kudos to Lofty for having figured this out.

A game worth sticking around for?

This tactic is valid and clever. If you dont't like it (or the sad fact that CCP says it is legal), then vote with your feet. For that matter, if you dont like the state of the game for any reason (lag, bugs, slow response times on petitions, crazy rules that obfuscate what one would normally consider common snese like a pop-up window telling you the asshat next to you in gang can shoot your ass), then leave.

Personally, I wouldn't use this tactic (to dumb to figure it out, to laid back to execute it). I wouldn't sanction the behaviour in game either if I were the developers. BUT I aint.

I have 8 accounts but stick around despite all the reasons above because there isnt't anything comparable out there. But if some other game company comes along with a persistent single shard world (sci-fi or fantasy) with a robust economy that has a better server architecutre (to address the lag) response times (to address bugs and petitions) and a more coherent rule set to address these kinds of issues (yeah, I like hard cruel reality, but I play games to get away from reality THAT hard and cruel ffs, so call it medium cruel reality), CCP will finally have a real horse race on their hands and that kind of competition may finally drive them to eleveate their game in new ways.

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Originally by: Vicious Phoenix

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Originally by: lofty29

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Originally by: Sergio Ling

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impossible to evade? now THAT'S bullcrap

just dont gang with people you don't know

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Exactly why it isnt an exploit

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Honorable tactic, certainly not. Whithin game mechanics, most definatly. Stop whinning, the gang text specifically warns you about this risk when you join, reading 4tw.

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Originally by: Vicious Phoenix

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No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war.
However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does
go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack
by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to
attack those parties unless they attack you first.

That seems to make it pretty clear.

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Originally by: Vicious Phoenix

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Originally by: Hellspawn01

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Originally by: Vicious Phoenix

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No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war.
However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does
go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack
by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to
attack those parties unless they attack you first.

That seems to make it pretty clear.

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Apparently you dont really get it.
THERE WAS NO WARNING ABOUT AN ONGOING WAR WHEN HE GOT INVITED.

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Lets make this simple. It said if anyone in his gang got involved in a war he'd be vulnerable, how much simpler can it get? Also, caps lock 4tl, it just makes you look childish.

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Originally by: Vicious Phoenix

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Originally by: Tito Taneki

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Edited by: Tito Taneki on 04/09/2006 10:34:51
Edited by: Tito Taneki on 04/09/2006 10:34:26

Originally by: Vicious Phoenix

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Lets make this simple. It said if anyone in his gang got involved in a war he'd be vulnerable, how much simpler can it get? Also, caps lock 4tl, it just makes you look childish.

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Read the post, please:
1) You are in war with noone.
2) You invite a victim. -> Victim gets no message.
3) You invite another alt, who is at war. -> Victim gets no message about this war, but becomes war target
4) The one who's at war with your alt/friend whatever kills the victim.

No warning.

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Wrong. You get the message I posted earlier.

Quote:

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No-one in this gang is currently in a corporation that is at war.
However, be aware that if a fellow gang member's corporation does
go to war with other corporations you become vulnerable to attack
by members of those corporations. You do not have the right to
attack those parties unless they attack you first.

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If you do the reading thing you'll see the warning. Reading 4tw.

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Originally by: Verus Potestas

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Originally by: lofty29

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Originally by: Galadiin Venyaa

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Originally by: lofty29

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An exploit is something that cannot be avoided. This can be avoided, quite easily.

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Sorry, but that's not the definition of an exploit.
An exploit by definition is the use of ingame mechanics to obtain a result, other than that intended by the devs, for own gain.

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And buy that definition, as said before, Gate sniping, Jetcan mining, hell even putting a can at a gate with your corps info on it, is an exploit . Using a battleship to mine, or a dread / carrier, should be a bannable offence now? Poor Chribba

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Originally by: CCP's Definition

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# 12.1 What is an exploit?

The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö Due to the ever-changing dynamics involved with maintaining a virtual, persistent world, it can sometimes be difficult or confusing to determine what might be considered an exploit.

Though every effort is made to avoid glitches that enable exploits to be used, they are occasionally discovered. Players have the responsibility of understanding how the game works and keeping themselves informed about changes to the game in order to comprehend what is deemed as an exploit. Those who are charged with employing the use of exploits will be reprimanded, which may include temporary suspension or a permanent ban of the account. Professing ignorance that you didnÆt know you were using an exploit will not prevent the enforcement of this rule.




# 12.2 How does CCP fix exploits?

Exploits are investigated on a prioritized, case-by-case basis. As received, information pertaining to exploits is entered into a queue. Programmers then ascertain the level of urgency in addressing them and fix them accordingly.




# 12.3 What are the punishments for using an exploit?

We reserve the right to review cases involving exploits on an individual basis and take action as we deem necessary. For minor offenses, a formal warning may be issued. A second warning or a more serious offense may result in the suspension of the playersÆ account. Very serious violations or repeated offenses will lead to a permanent ban.

We reserve the right in all cases to determine the seriousness of the offense. We also reserve the right to delete characters and/or items that were gained through the use of exploits. Note that any attempts at hacking the game or the game servers will be dealt with severely, up to û and including û legal action.




# 12.14 How do I know whatÆs legal or illegal in the game?

Using the game mechanics in any way to achieve an unintended game behavior is exploiting. Stay abreast of known issues and changes to the game. Employing the use of an unauthorized third party program is always illegal. Those who create, distribute, advocate or use unauthorized third party programs will be permanently banned from EVE.






# 12.5 Do you consider it cheating if someone uses a known bug?

Yes. The circumstances are irrelevant. All cases where a player manipulates the system or the game world, knowingly or otherwise, will be treated as exploiting and dealt with harshly.

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Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly

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Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 04/09/2006 12:11:55
I just wonder why ppl that are at war with eachother are allowed to gang up in the first place. Only use for that that I can see is for tactics like this.

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Originally by: Kharriga

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Tbh i wouldnt be surprised if he initiated this whole thread in some way ( ie. its his alt/main opening, he paid someone off, its his friend etc ).

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Originally by: lofty29

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Originally by: Hellspawn01

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Originally by: Kharriga

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Tbh i wouldnt be surprised if he initiated this whole thread in some way ( ie. its his alt/main opening, he paid someone off, its his friend etc ).

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I assure you I¦m not in any way connected to lofty29 except that I killed him once.

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You killed me? Nono. Me and my old corpie where having a bit of fun, stealing your corps ore in our caracals. It was funny. You warped in, IIRC, 7 bs's and 4 HAC's to deal with 2 caracals. YOU did not kill me. Your corporation killed me. And then you posted it on the forum and got flamed off, isnt that right?

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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Edited by: Ranger 1 on 16/09/2006 16:57:52
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 16/09/2006 16:53:53
But if you leave the gang, they can not warp to you any longer.

And why, oh why, would you allow a person in a noob corp... that you do not know... to form the gang and be gang leader? This stranger is then in charge of gang invites, where and when you warp. The gang leader MUST be someone you trust.

Idiocy.

Truthfully, I would have no objections to the Warning message going out to all gang members when someone at war is joining the gang... but they better make sure that it does not interfere with clicking on other things, otherwise this will be exploited as well in certain situations.

Common sense, however, it far more effective than game mechanics. Your gang leader should be gang leader for a reason. If it's his mission (supposedly) have him warp to the mission area first and then you warp to him. Don't allow that stranger to control the situation by being gang leader just because you are lazy.

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