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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Edoard Titche
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:31:00 -
[1]
It's a shame but it seems to happen in every mmo after the first few years. Devs start nerfing and tinkering to try and accommodate "casual" players but in the process they always alienate the core fanbase who have put them in their comfortable position in the first place
Look at SWG before the CU and the *shudder* NGE all that needed changing was the balance of the game, so that everyone didnt just use the same uber build. What did SOE do? They effectively nerfed the entire game turning it into a lame FPS that noone had ever wanted or asked for except the lame nubbins who were too lazy to put in the effort and just wanted a World of StarWars Craft.
They got their way but the price was a high one. SWG is now a bug infested ghost town and its got to the point where SOE are practically paying you to play the game, you can go for miles on any given planet in SWG and the only sign of life you'll see are SOE's paid "helpers"
Blizzard are about to drive another nail into their own coffin with the impending release of The Broken Coffee-Machine errr I mean The Burning Crusade with its planned nerf of end-game raiding ( the only reason to even bother with the game) Again blizzard's justification is that they want to balance the game for "casual" players who never get to see end-game.
The truth is however that WoW is far from a challenging game with little skill required by its players ( thats why all the 14 year olds are running around with full epics) Those who don't particiapate in end-game either have no interest in it or are again too lazy to put in the effort (OMGZ GIF FREE EPIX PLZ!)
For pete's sake these are MMO's you're not supposed to be able to complete them in a week! If people want that they should just stick to the myriad of console FPS's and Platform games already on the market, why ruin our enjoyment?
It's not as if there are really a lot of quality MMORPG's to choose from in the first place and those that are around are being constantly nerfed by dev's and the management holding their leashes. Success causes them to lose sight of what made their game popular in the first place all they are really interested in is making more and more money. The only way to get the green is to make games that all the kids will like and that mom and dad will set up the direct debit for..
EVE is suffering a death of a thousand cuts. I implore CCP, as the developer of the only MMO left with real substance, come to your senses before it is too late. SWG should have taught you that we will vote with our feet if we feel betrayed and all you will be left with are 14 year olds who have no loyalty and will simply jump ship as soon as a more shiny toy is put in front of them
Just a word to the wise CCP, I just hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears...
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Mr Happ
Gallente
Hellbound Saints
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:32:00 -
[2]
blah blah yack yack bleh bleh
We get it
We need a YEAR without ANY 'new content'. Nothing but BUG FIXES.
New content that does not work is WORTHLESS. |
Gong
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:36:00 -
[3]
Could you please make your point clearer ? I don't understand, what nerfing has to do with making it a game for kids or a game like WoW.
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Martinez
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:44:00 -
[4]
I agree with edoard. nerfs are bad for games like this. hell look at the amarr situation atm, amarr has been nerfed and renerfed and what is happening 25% of the player base at least are ****ed off. there is some balancing issues that need to be sorted out but eve in general doesnt need to be easier. Hell the game has changed so much from the being it is amazing. i mean money is easy to come by now, every one can afford t2 stuff, minerals are easy to mine and haul, so lets not make it easier for newer players. let the work hard like the vets to get what they want in the game. personally i like the fact that hacs cost a ton. to me that means the economy is working.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:52:00 -
[5]
CCP boost everything except 'Edoard Titche'.
kthxbye
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Sendraks
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:56:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Edoard Titche
Blizzard are about to drive another nail into their own coffin with the impending release of The Broken Coffee-Machine errr I mean The Burning Crusade with its planned nerf of end-game raiding ( the only reason to even bother with the game) Again blizzard's justification is that they want to balance the game for "casual" players who never get to see end-game.
The truth is however that WoW is far from a challenging game with little skill required by its players ( thats why all the 14 year olds are running around with full epics) Those who don't particiapate in end-game either have no interest in it or are again too lazy to put in the effort (OMGZ GIF FREE EPIX PLZ!)
Aside from this poorly thought out elitist tosh that would look stupid even on the WoW forums, what on earth are you trying to say?
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Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Martinez
hell look at the amarr situation atm, amarr has been nerfed and renerfed and what is happening 25% of the player base at least are ****ed off.
wrong:
- only "nerf" that affected amarr directly was the multiple dmg mod nerf.
- the problems with amarr are derived of the omni-tank, not because their weapons suck.
- actually, it's less than 25%, since almost 50% are caldari.
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Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Krulla
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:58:00 -
[8]
You seem to have your terminlogy messed up. What you are talking about has nothing to do with nerfing, it's changing crucial elements of the game. Something which CCP has done nothing of, and have deviated remarkably little from their original vision.
Nerfing is good, mmkay? Nerfing leads to balance. Balance is good. If no nerfing was done, people would still be flying around in Apocs with 17x damage mods using broken named heat sinks, and would be pwning frigates at any range using tachyons.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:02:00 -
[9]
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me. 
Wrangler
Assistant Community Manager
EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads
Knowledge Base - Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions |
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Tito Taneki
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Martinez
personally i like the fact that hacs cost a ton. to me that means the economy is working.
It means that the a few guys, who had once luck early in the game got an isk printing machine that gives them more an more profit every year for minimal work and time investment. The chance that a new player gets the I-win-card is getting lower and lower.
The percentage of the player base, who can get a specific t2 items, gets lower and lower too. Plain logic. Constant production output and more players => hacs become MORE ELITE over time, like any wanted tech-2 item.
The original idea was to make tech-2 usuage more common over time, not more elite. Currently it get's more elite. That's why Kali introduces Invention and stuff like that and it's good. Also good, that new people get a new chance to earn money and not only the old ones, who are already rich.
Sorry for the people, who's I-win-button-bpo degrades to just a very good source of income, but it's time for it. 
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Plutoinum |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
Which could be described as quite a big nerf to new players. Huge, in fact. 
On the other hand, I disagree with the OP. CCP are not nerfing eve into submissions, nor do I expect them to.
I would appreciate the promised return of the CSM though... Wrangler, do you know if that is still being seriously discussed?
Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected])
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Cmdr Sy
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:08:00 -
[12]
Care to be more specific? No-one wants to hear a general complaint about excessive nerfs. If you cite no examples, there is no substance to the argument.
What is the issue? You claim EVE is too easy for new players? Obviously easier than when it was a blank slate, but with the month-long learning skill grind and the established elite flying around, not by much.
Is it too easy to make money, or are too many opportunities to make money being taken away? Is one race overpowered or another disadvantaged? Is there some undesirable economic disparity between closely related economic sectors? Risk/reward somewhere? Do you have a specific complaint such as the effect dual EANM II stacking with skill is having on Amarr ships' ability to damage plated passive armour-tanks?
It would be so much easier to reassure you about some possible misconception you may have, if only you were more specific.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
I would appreciate the promised return of the CSM though... Wrangler, do you know if that is still being seriously discussed?
The CSM will be returning, in a slightly different way though, which will be more efficient. 
Wrangler
Assistant Community Manager
EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads
Knowledge Base - Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions |
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Sendraks
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Which could be described as quite a big nerf to new players. Huge, in fact.
I fail to see how it is a "huge" nerf to new players. So it just takes longer to copy BMs, so what. Do new players really need to be copying hundreds of BMs to enjoy the game? Hell no. I played for about 3 months before I made use of my first BM and even now I rarely copy many, preferring to make my own instead.
It is a big nerf to any new player who wants to buy bucketloads of instas to go blasting about 0.0 in, but are they really the majority of new players?
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Wrangler
Originally by: Verus Potestas
I would appreciate the promised return of the CSM though... Wrangler, do you know if that is still being seriously discussed?
The CSM will be returning, in a slightly different way though, which will be more efficient.
Bah, I decided to make a new thread rather than derail this one 
When it got posted, you'd alraedy replied.
Mind moving your comment there and removing this?
Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected])
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Gabriel Karade
Office linebackers
Blood of the Innocents
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:14:00 -
[16]
Perhaps the OP should elaborate on what they meant. Things are quite well balanced at the moment. Look at some of the 'nerfs' that have occurred since Castor that have helped the game:
Correct missiles for correct launchers - no longer a case of cruise missile kestrels > everything else. Actually worthwhile using other missiles.
Drone range/tracking - everything below heavy drones was pointless as they had infinite tracking, and could hit any target at any range for omgbbqpwnage
Turrets balanced vs. targets - smaller ships have a viable role.
MWD/ABÆs limited to one per ship - got rid of game breaking no-brainer, nigh on invulnerable setups.
Missiles balanced against target size - no more torpedo Raven > everything syndrome.
Pulse lasers range capped û no more ôone turret BBQ for any jobö Armageddon.
Module stacking û balanced setups 4tw.
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- Office Linebacker -
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sendraks
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Which could be described as quite a big nerf to new players. Huge, in fact.
I fail to see how it is a "huge" nerf to new players. So it just takes longer to copy BMs, so what. Do new players really need to be copying hundreds of BMs to enjoy the game? Hell no. I played for about 3 months before I made use of my first BM and even now I rarely copy many, preferring to make my own instead.
It is a big nerf to any new player who wants to buy bucketloads of instas to go blasting about 0.0 in, but are they really the majority of new players?
It means that anyone who doesn't already have instas for 0.0 is either going to have to pay a huge premium for them (and it will be HUGE) or is going to have to go into 0.0 without them. If anything bigger than a ceptor, they are not going to stand that much of a chance. Anyone passing will be easily able to slaughter them, it will take hours to move across the huge numbers of jumps around 0.0 and they will be unable to flee through systems: their only option will be to safe.
Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected])
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Yual
Minmatar
Black Avatar
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:20:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
Mabey he's refering to This Thread.
Only thing I can think of.
/me reloads and goes off for another set of Blood Monsignors  
Originally by: W.W. Smith
"Consistancy is a hallmark of a small mind."
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Sul Condbax
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Originally by: Sendraks
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Which could be described as quite a big nerf to new players. Huge, in fact.
I fail to see how it is a "huge" nerf to new players. So it just takes longer to copy BMs, so what. Do new players really need to be copying hundreds of BMs to enjoy the game? Hell no. I played for about 3 months before I made use of my first BM and even now I rarely copy many, preferring to make my own instead.
It is a big nerf to any new player who wants to buy bucketloads of instas to go blasting about 0.0 in, but are they really the majority of new players?
It means that anyone who doesn't already have instas for 0.0 is either going to have to pay a huge premium for them (and it will be HUGE) or is going to have to go into 0.0 without them. If anything bigger than a ceptor, they are not going to stand that much of a chance. Anyone passing will be easily able to slaughter them, it will take hours to move across the huge numbers of jumps around 0.0 and they will be unable to flee through systems: their only option will be to safe.
Verus, I don't think it will be as bad as that. It just means that those who don't have instas for an area will simply have to spend some time making them themselves, instead of relying on others to copy them for them. It's time consuming and risky, but it is perfectly doable.
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:27:00 -
[20]
I agree with the OP to some lengths, but not with al of it.
Now Tux is talking about stoping blobs wtf? If there were ANYTHING CCP were proud of in the past it was 'big fleet battles' etc etc.
Recruitment |
Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:28:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Sevarus James on 04/09/2006 13:28:59
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
Ahh wrangler...dontcha' remember this VERY same stuff at the beginning of exodus? castor? blood? CCP is nerfing EVERYTHING! Oh wait.....they aren't. 
It amuses me to no end to see these 'sky is falling' posts. Forums at their most unbalanced and self-righteous.
I'm bettin' isk that bookmarks are in for revamping, and the limitation is just the beginning of the weaning off process.
The original poster and his 'death by a thousand cuts' is serious drama. not.
Even if the bookmark situation doesn't get resolved, and the 5bm limitation stays...you know what? Most of us who understand "adapt and overcome" will work around it. We'll work together in our corporations and alliances and solve most of it.
You suddenly change it so that EVE is 'safe' or instanced.........then I'd have a problem.
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Updated Linux Desktop+EVE+EVE-TV |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sul Condbax
Verus, I don't think it will be as bad as that. It just means that those who don't have instas for an area will simply have to spend some time making them themselves, instead of relying on others to copy them for them. It's time consuming and risky, but it is perfectly doable.
I will still be much faster/easier to copy them than to make them.
However, it will mean that new players either need to pay the new, inflated insta prices or spend hours and hours making instas.
I classify that as a nerf.
Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected])
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Wilfan Ret'nub
Singularity.
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Death Kill
Now Tux is talking about stoping blobs wtf? If there were ANYTHING CCP were proud of in the past it was 'big fleet battles' etc etc.
Somebody posted without reading Tux's blog 
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No ISK, no fun |
Sendraks
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
However, it will mean that new players either need to pay the new, inflated insta prices or spend hours and hours making instas.
I classify that as a nerf.
It is a nerf, but not as huge as you make it out to be for newer players.
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Minikrimi Extreme
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
However, it will mean that new players either need to pay the new, inflated insta prices or spend hours and hours making instas.
Hours and hours of making instas? Perhaps what this means is that new people to 0.0 will have limited range at first, rather than having entire regions handed to them to copy (I heard stories from a buddy of mine who used to play). Maybe instead they'll just be given a constellation at a time. But frankly with all of the good stuff in 0.0 I have absolutely no problem with limiting the mobility of people new to 0.0 and new to an alliance in this way. And that comes from someone who currently has no access but may want it some day. Yeah, I'll fall under those restrictions, and I'll live with them. Just like I restarted Eve without the courier missions, and without high end ore in Empire (I still miss that).
And to the person complaining about T2 monopolies-- that was one of the points to Eve. The first people to do something got exclusive access to production and would control it. I remember reverse engineering and prototypes being described in such a manner (even though apparently it was never implemented). Eve was not meant to be equal access to everyone. Only the best and brightest and luckiest flourished. Cold-hearted capitalism run amock. That is the essence of Eve.
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Caleb Paine
Infinite Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:12:00 -
[26]
If only there was a way to nerf stupidity...
Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back. |
Laythun
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Death Kill
I agree with the OP to some lengths, but not with al of it.
Now Tux is talking about stoping blobs wtf? If there were ANYTHING CCP were proud of in the past it was 'big fleet battles' etc etc.
I've seen way to many of your scaremongering posts..so read through everything BEFORE you post. Also
Blob != Fleet battle
See You In Space Cowboy |
Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
"Nerfing" bm's is enough for me.
Do you think the fact that the server was brought to it's knees is indicitive of something?
It wasnt even the forum warriors moaning, 900k bm's copied in a few hours was a perfect indication that the playerbase thinks you are breaking somethin *even more* and with CCP's pitiful track record at fixing things I wouldnt expect the fix SoonÖ
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:18:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Death Kill on 04/09/2006 14:18:26
Originally by: Laythun
I've seen way to many of your scaremongering posts
If you find them scary, perhaps that means its past your bedtime?
Quote:
Blob != Fleet battle
Have I ever said otherwise?
Recruitment |
Gabriel Karade
Office linebackers
Blood of the Innocents
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:28:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Death Kill
I agree with the OP to some lengths, but not with al of it.
Now Tux is talking about stoping blobs wtf? If there were ANYTHING CCP were proud of in the past it was 'big fleet battles' etc etc.
Fleet battles need more immersion than "Primary is..." "Secondary is..." "warp out to...." "good job guys..." - that's what Tux is getting at.
I would love to see it possible to have battles like the opening to SW EpIII - fleets getting mixed up and breaking down into lots of smaller or even 1 v 1 battles between battleships with the support ships weaving in and out.
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- Office Linebacker -
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