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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Edoard Titche
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:31:00 -
[1]
It's a shame but it seems to happen in every mmo after the first few years. Devs start nerfing and tinkering to try and accommodate "casual" players but in the process they always alienate the core fanbase who have put them in their comfortable position in the first place
Look at SWG before the CU and the *shudder* NGE all that needed changing was the balance of the game, so that everyone didnt just use the same uber build. What did SOE do? They effectively nerfed the entire game turning it into a lame FPS that noone had ever wanted or asked for except the lame nubbins who were too lazy to put in the effort and just wanted a World of StarWars Craft.
They got their way but the price was a high one. SWG is now a bug infested ghost town and its got to the point where SOE are practically paying you to play the game, you can go for miles on any given planet in SWG and the only sign of life you'll see are SOE's paid "helpers"
Blizzard are about to drive another nail into their own coffin with the impending release of The Broken Coffee-Machine errr I mean The Burning Crusade with its planned nerf of end-game raiding ( the only reason to even bother with the game) Again blizzard's justification is that they want to balance the game for "casual" players who never get to see end-game.
The truth is however that WoW is far from a challenging game with little skill required by its players ( thats why all the 14 year olds are running around with full epics) Those who don't particiapate in end-game either have no interest in it or are again too lazy to put in the effort (OMGZ GIF FREE EPIX PLZ!)
For pete's sake these are MMO's you're not supposed to be able to complete them in a week! If people want that they should just stick to the myriad of console FPS's and Platform games already on the market, why ruin our enjoyment?
It's not as if there are really a lot of quality MMORPG's to choose from in the first place and those that are around are being constantly nerfed by dev's and the management holding their leashes. Success causes them to lose sight of what made their game popular in the first place all they are really interested in is making more and more money. The only way to get the green is to make games that all the kids will like and that mom and dad will set up the direct debit for..
EVE is suffering a death of a thousand cuts. I implore CCP, as the developer of the only MMO left with real substance, come to your senses before it is too late. SWG should have taught you that we will vote with our feet if we feel betrayed and all you will be left with are 14 year olds who have no loyalty and will simply jump ship as soon as a more shiny toy is put in front of them
Just a word to the wise CCP, I just hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears...
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Mr Happ
Gallente
Hellbound Saints
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:32:00 -
[2]
blah blah yack yack bleh bleh
We get it
We need a YEAR without ANY 'new content'. Nothing but BUG FIXES.
New content that does not work is WORTHLESS. |
Gong
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:36:00 -
[3]
Could you please make your point clearer ? I don't understand, what nerfing has to do with making it a game for kids or a game like WoW.
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Martinez
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:44:00 -
[4]
I agree with edoard. nerfs are bad for games like this. hell look at the amarr situation atm, amarr has been nerfed and renerfed and what is happening 25% of the player base at least are ****ed off. there is some balancing issues that need to be sorted out but eve in general doesnt need to be easier. Hell the game has changed so much from the being it is amazing. i mean money is easy to come by now, every one can afford t2 stuff, minerals are easy to mine and haul, so lets not make it easier for newer players. let the work hard like the vets to get what they want in the game. personally i like the fact that hacs cost a ton. to me that means the economy is working.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:52:00 -
[5]
CCP boost everything except 'Edoard Titche'.
kthxbye
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Sendraks
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:56:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Edoard Titche
Blizzard are about to drive another nail into their own coffin with the impending release of The Broken Coffee-Machine errr I mean The Burning Crusade with its planned nerf of end-game raiding ( the only reason to even bother with the game) Again blizzard's justification is that they want to balance the game for "casual" players who never get to see end-game.
The truth is however that WoW is far from a challenging game with little skill required by its players ( thats why all the 14 year olds are running around with full epics) Those who don't particiapate in end-game either have no interest in it or are again too lazy to put in the effort (OMGZ GIF FREE EPIX PLZ!)
Aside from this poorly thought out elitist tosh that would look stupid even on the WoW forums, what on earth are you trying to say?
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Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Martinez
hell look at the amarr situation atm, amarr has been nerfed and renerfed and what is happening 25% of the player base at least are ****ed off.
wrong:
- only "nerf" that affected amarr directly was the multiple dmg mod nerf.
- the problems with amarr are derived of the omni-tank, not because their weapons suck.
- actually, it's less than 25%, since almost 50% are caldari.
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Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Krulla
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.09.04 12:58:00 -
[8]
You seem to have your terminlogy messed up. What you are talking about has nothing to do with nerfing, it's changing crucial elements of the game. Something which CCP has done nothing of, and have deviated remarkably little from their original vision.
Nerfing is good, mmkay? Nerfing leads to balance. Balance is good. If no nerfing was done, people would still be flying around in Apocs with 17x damage mods using broken named heat sinks, and would be pwning frigates at any range using tachyons.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:02:00 -
[9]
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me. 
Wrangler
Assistant Community Manager
EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads
Knowledge Base - Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions |
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Tito Taneki
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Martinez
personally i like the fact that hacs cost a ton. to me that means the economy is working.
It means that the a few guys, who had once luck early in the game got an isk printing machine that gives them more an more profit every year for minimal work and time investment. The chance that a new player gets the I-win-card is getting lower and lower.
The percentage of the player base, who can get a specific t2 items, gets lower and lower too. Plain logic. Constant production output and more players => hacs become MORE ELITE over time, like any wanted tech-2 item.
The original idea was to make tech-2 usuage more common over time, not more elite. Currently it get's more elite. That's why Kali introduces Invention and stuff like that and it's good. Also good, that new people get a new chance to earn money and not only the old ones, who are already rich.
Sorry for the people, who's I-win-button-bpo degrades to just a very good source of income, but it's time for it. 
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Plutoinum |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
Which could be described as quite a big nerf to new players. Huge, in fact. 
On the other hand, I disagree with the OP. CCP are not nerfing eve into submissions, nor do I expect them to.
I would appreciate the promised return of the CSM though... Wrangler, do you know if that is still being seriously discussed?
Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected])
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Cmdr Sy
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:08:00 -
[12]
Care to be more specific? No-one wants to hear a general complaint about excessive nerfs. If you cite no examples, there is no substance to the argument.
What is the issue? You claim EVE is too easy for new players? Obviously easier than when it was a blank slate, but with the month-long learning skill grind and the established elite flying around, not by much.
Is it too easy to make money, or are too many opportunities to make money being taken away? Is one race overpowered or another disadvantaged? Is there some undesirable economic disparity between closely related economic sectors? Risk/reward somewhere? Do you have a specific complaint such as the effect dual EANM II stacking with skill is having on Amarr ships' ability to damage plated passive armour-tanks?
It would be so much easier to reassure you about some possible misconception you may have, if only you were more specific.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
I would appreciate the promised return of the CSM though... Wrangler, do you know if that is still being seriously discussed?
The CSM will be returning, in a slightly different way though, which will be more efficient. 
Wrangler
Assistant Community Manager
EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads
Knowledge Base - Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions |
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Sendraks
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Which could be described as quite a big nerf to new players. Huge, in fact.
I fail to see how it is a "huge" nerf to new players. So it just takes longer to copy BMs, so what. Do new players really need to be copying hundreds of BMs to enjoy the game? Hell no. I played for about 3 months before I made use of my first BM and even now I rarely copy many, preferring to make my own instead.
It is a big nerf to any new player who wants to buy bucketloads of instas to go blasting about 0.0 in, but are they really the majority of new players?
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Wrangler
Originally by: Verus Potestas
I would appreciate the promised return of the CSM though... Wrangler, do you know if that is still being seriously discussed?
The CSM will be returning, in a slightly different way though, which will be more efficient.
Bah, I decided to make a new thread rather than derail this one 
When it got posted, you'd alraedy replied.
Mind moving your comment there and removing this?
Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected])
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Gabriel Karade
Office linebackers
Blood of the Innocents
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:14:00 -
[16]
Perhaps the OP should elaborate on what they meant. Things are quite well balanced at the moment. Look at some of the 'nerfs' that have occurred since Castor that have helped the game:
Correct missiles for correct launchers - no longer a case of cruise missile kestrels > everything else. Actually worthwhile using other missiles.
Drone range/tracking - everything below heavy drones was pointless as they had infinite tracking, and could hit any target at any range for omgbbqpwnage
Turrets balanced vs. targets - smaller ships have a viable role.
MWD/ABÆs limited to one per ship - got rid of game breaking no-brainer, nigh on invulnerable setups.
Missiles balanced against target size - no more torpedo Raven > everything syndrome.
Pulse lasers range capped û no more ôone turret BBQ for any jobö Armageddon.
Module stacking û balanced setups 4tw.
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- Office Linebacker -
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sendraks
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Which could be described as quite a big nerf to new players. Huge, in fact.
I fail to see how it is a "huge" nerf to new players. So it just takes longer to copy BMs, so what. Do new players really need to be copying hundreds of BMs to enjoy the game? Hell no. I played for about 3 months before I made use of my first BM and even now I rarely copy many, preferring to make my own instead.
It is a big nerf to any new player who wants to buy bucketloads of instas to go blasting about 0.0 in, but are they really the majority of new players?
It means that anyone who doesn't already have instas for 0.0 is either going to have to pay a huge premium for them (and it will be HUGE) or is going to have to go into 0.0 without them. If anything bigger than a ceptor, they are not going to stand that much of a chance. Anyone passing will be easily able to slaughter them, it will take hours to move across the huge numbers of jumps around 0.0 and they will be unable to flee through systems: their only option will be to safe.
Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected])
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Yual
Minmatar
Black Avatar
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:20:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
Mabey he's refering to This Thread.
Only thing I can think of.
/me reloads and goes off for another set of Blood Monsignors  
Originally by: W.W. Smith
"Consistancy is a hallmark of a small mind."
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Sul Condbax
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Originally by: Sendraks
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Which could be described as quite a big nerf to new players. Huge, in fact.
I fail to see how it is a "huge" nerf to new players. So it just takes longer to copy BMs, so what. Do new players really need to be copying hundreds of BMs to enjoy the game? Hell no. I played for about 3 months before I made use of my first BM and even now I rarely copy many, preferring to make my own instead.
It is a big nerf to any new player who wants to buy bucketloads of instas to go blasting about 0.0 in, but are they really the majority of new players?
It means that anyone who doesn't already have instas for 0.0 is either going to have to pay a huge premium for them (and it will be HUGE) or is going to have to go into 0.0 without them. If anything bigger than a ceptor, they are not going to stand that much of a chance. Anyone passing will be easily able to slaughter them, it will take hours to move across the huge numbers of jumps around 0.0 and they will be unable to flee through systems: their only option will be to safe.
Verus, I don't think it will be as bad as that. It just means that those who don't have instas for an area will simply have to spend some time making them themselves, instead of relying on others to copy them for them. It's time consuming and risky, but it is perfectly doable.
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:27:00 -
[20]
I agree with the OP to some lengths, but not with al of it.
Now Tux is talking about stoping blobs wtf? If there were ANYTHING CCP were proud of in the past it was 'big fleet battles' etc etc.
Recruitment |
Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:28:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Sevarus James on 04/09/2006 13:28:59
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
Ahh wrangler...dontcha' remember this VERY same stuff at the beginning of exodus? castor? blood? CCP is nerfing EVERYTHING! Oh wait.....they aren't. 
It amuses me to no end to see these 'sky is falling' posts. Forums at their most unbalanced and self-righteous.
I'm bettin' isk that bookmarks are in for revamping, and the limitation is just the beginning of the weaning off process.
The original poster and his 'death by a thousand cuts' is serious drama. not.
Even if the bookmark situation doesn't get resolved, and the 5bm limitation stays...you know what? Most of us who understand "adapt and overcome" will work around it. We'll work together in our corporations and alliances and solve most of it.
You suddenly change it so that EVE is 'safe' or instanced.........then I'd have a problem.
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Updated Linux Desktop+EVE+EVE-TV |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sul Condbax
Verus, I don't think it will be as bad as that. It just means that those who don't have instas for an area will simply have to spend some time making them themselves, instead of relying on others to copy them for them. It's time consuming and risky, but it is perfectly doable.
I will still be much faster/easier to copy them than to make them.
However, it will mean that new players either need to pay the new, inflated insta prices or spend hours and hours making instas.
I classify that as a nerf.
Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected])
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Wilfan Ret'nub
Singularity.
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Posted - 2006.09.04 13:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Death Kill
Now Tux is talking about stoping blobs wtf? If there were ANYTHING CCP were proud of in the past it was 'big fleet battles' etc etc.
Somebody posted without reading Tux's blog 
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No ISK, no fun |
Sendraks
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
However, it will mean that new players either need to pay the new, inflated insta prices or spend hours and hours making instas.
I classify that as a nerf.
It is a nerf, but not as huge as you make it out to be for newer players.
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Minikrimi Extreme
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
However, it will mean that new players either need to pay the new, inflated insta prices or spend hours and hours making instas.
Hours and hours of making instas? Perhaps what this means is that new people to 0.0 will have limited range at first, rather than having entire regions handed to them to copy (I heard stories from a buddy of mine who used to play). Maybe instead they'll just be given a constellation at a time. But frankly with all of the good stuff in 0.0 I have absolutely no problem with limiting the mobility of people new to 0.0 and new to an alliance in this way. And that comes from someone who currently has no access but may want it some day. Yeah, I'll fall under those restrictions, and I'll live with them. Just like I restarted Eve without the courier missions, and without high end ore in Empire (I still miss that).
And to the person complaining about T2 monopolies-- that was one of the points to Eve. The first people to do something got exclusive access to production and would control it. I remember reverse engineering and prototypes being described in such a manner (even though apparently it was never implemented). Eve was not meant to be equal access to everyone. Only the best and brightest and luckiest flourished. Cold-hearted capitalism run amock. That is the essence of Eve.
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Caleb Paine
Infinite Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:12:00 -
[26]
If only there was a way to nerf stupidity...
Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back. |
Laythun
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Death Kill
I agree with the OP to some lengths, but not with al of it.
Now Tux is talking about stoping blobs wtf? If there were ANYTHING CCP were proud of in the past it was 'big fleet battles' etc etc.
I've seen way to many of your scaremongering posts..so read through everything BEFORE you post. Also
Blob != Fleet battle
See You In Space Cowboy |
Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
"Nerfing" bm's is enough for me.
Do you think the fact that the server was brought to it's knees is indicitive of something?
It wasnt even the forum warriors moaning, 900k bm's copied in a few hours was a perfect indication that the playerbase thinks you are breaking somethin *even more* and with CCP's pitiful track record at fixing things I wouldnt expect the fix SoonÖ
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:18:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Death Kill on 04/09/2006 14:18:26
Originally by: Laythun
I've seen way to many of your scaremongering posts
If you find them scary, perhaps that means its past your bedtime?
Quote:
Blob != Fleet battle
Have I ever said otherwise?
Recruitment |
Gabriel Karade
Office linebackers
Blood of the Innocents
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:28:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Death Kill
I agree with the OP to some lengths, but not with al of it.
Now Tux is talking about stoping blobs wtf? If there were ANYTHING CCP were proud of in the past it was 'big fleet battles' etc etc.
Fleet battles need more immersion than "Primary is..." "Secondary is..." "warp out to...." "good job guys..." - that's what Tux is getting at.
I would love to see it possible to have battles like the opening to SW EpIII - fleets getting mixed up and breaking down into lots of smaller or even 1 v 1 battles between battleships with the support ships weaving in and out.
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- Office Linebacker -
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St Dragon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:28:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Death Kill
Edited by: Death Kill on 04/09/2006 14:18:26
Originally by: Laythun
I've seen way to many of your scaremongering posts
If you find them scary, perhaps that means its past your bedtime?
Quote:
Blob != Fleet battle
Have I ever said otherwise?
Problem is blobs are not much fun.
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"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Dufas
Amarr
Catalyst Reaction
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:36:00 -
[32]
a nerf nerf here.... a nerf ner there...here a nerf...there a nerf...everywhere a nerf nerf...you cant please everyone, its a fact of life...even if you gave a group of ppl a million bucks one of them would complain about something....the poster does make some valid points about changing the game away from what was intended and that will drive off alot of veterans...but change is necessary for growth...but please dear god get rid of bm's...this bm copying frenzie should be a HUGE RED SIGNAL that the problem needs to be fix and fixed now..not after kali is out and there's 1000's of new bugs to fix
yarrr
__________
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Fleet battles need more immersion than "Primary is..." "Secondary is..." "warp out to...." "good job guys..." - that's what Tux is getting at.
I would love to see it possible to have battles like the opening to SW EpIII - fleets getting mixed up and breaking down into lots of smaller or even 1 v 1 battles between battleships with the support ships weaving in and out.
But EVE has always been command and conquer in space, I dont think the problem lies in changing the mechanincs in that way.
It might have been possible to have battles such as the one you refer to, but that would perhaps require more wide spread solar systems?
Recruitment |
Dred 'Morte
Minmatar
Sammael's Legion
Arkhangelos Command
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:42:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 04/09/2006 14:43:17
Nerfing is futile attempt to make everything balanced...
Eve was more fun when you could put cruise missiles in frigates and torps in cruisers, more fun when you could use oversized plates and afterburners, more fun when you could use gankageddons, more fun when you coul use multiple MWDs, more fun when you could make a real profit out of lvl 4 missions, etc...
I say, screw the balance, and give each race a fair share of overpowered ships. No need to nerf when there is no need for balance and there is no need for balance when your supose to have imbalance.
Dred 'Morte crazy theoriesÖ
Signature made by Mr Floppykickners |
Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:45:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dred 'Morte
Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 04/09/2006 14:43:17
Nerfing is futile attempt to make everything balanced...
Eve was more fun when you could put cruise missiles in frigates and torps in cruisers, more fun when you could use oversized plates and afterburners, more fun when you could use gankageddons, more fun when you coul use multiple MWDs, more fun when you could make a real profit out of lvl 4 missions, etc...
I say, screw the balance, and give each race a fair share of overpowered ships. No need to nerf when there is no need for balance and there is no need for balance when your supose to have imbalance.
Dred 'Morte crazy theoriesÖ
What a new and refreshing view on it....I like
Recruitment |
Areconus
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:53:00 -
[36]
I agree with the OP on the fact that, 'nerfing a way to create bms is stupid", but not necessarily nerfing bms specifically. Who knows, maybe CCP will put in a little effort to create a better and faster system to make bms without all the lag. But if they just leave it at 5bms at a time, then that sucks ******* balls
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.09.04 14:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Death Kill
Quote:
Blob != Fleet battle
Have I ever said otherwise?
"!=" means "is not" 
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.09.04 15:42:00 -
[38]
Damn those crazy kids these days and their geek typing
Recruitment |
Valan
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Posted - 2006.09.04 16:12:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
What apart from the mission rewards, frequency and offers. Or are they new bugs.
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
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Andicuri Vas
Gallente
Celtic Anarchy
Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.04 16:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
Devs on the offence ftw!
Only you can stop the whinage.....only you.
A
V
Your sig is too large, please read the forum rules before reposting - Tirg |
Krulla
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.09.04 19:13:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Krulla on 04/09/2006 19:13:57
Originally by: Dred 'Morte
Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 04/09/2006 14:43:17
Nerfing is futile attempt to make everything balanced...
Eve was more fun when you could put cruise missiles in frigates and torps in cruisers, more fun when you could use oversized plates and afterburners, more fun when you could use gankageddons, more fun when you coul use multiple MWDs, more fun when you could make a real profit out of lvl 4 missions, etc...
I say, screw the balance, and give each race a fair share of overpowered ships. No need to nerf when there is no need for balance and there is no need for balance when your supose to have imbalance.
Dred 'Morte crazy theoriesÖ
So you are claiming that the days when nothing came close to being as good as a Armageddon were the "good old days"? WTF? Are you high?
Also, giving "each race their share of overpowered ships" would BE balance, and those ships wouldn't be overpowered.
But I agree on the dual MWD and cruise on frigs - those wouldn't be broken per se as the game is now, because of the added cap and signiture penality on MWDs, and the signiture factor on missiles.
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Agarttha
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2006.09.04 19:47:00 -
[42]
*sigh*
i wonder if CCP can nerf an overdeveloped sense of entitlement...
Who is John Galt? |
Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front
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Posted - 2006.09.04 20:35:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Lo3d3R on 04/09/2006 20:36:20
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
Well as this may (is ) (be) true, it does look a bit as if CCP is suffering from HWGATIUTA wich is in some management books described as "here we go again taking it up the a.." (not kidding)... it happens when certain people in the company get a new (higher and or different) functionlevel, its a natural process where people want to proove themselves, to do this something must always change to get regonized.
Reading the new tuxford blog made me think of this... all of a sudden the range isnt good anyway nerfing/changing then this, then that, it never stops, change isnt always good.
I think this is what the OP is trying to say, STOP CHANGING everything and specially dont fiddle with base features or facts of life in EVE like: local, jump to range, range setups, allready done damage: stacking penaltys for damage, sensors, remotes etc... I think eve was funnier a while back, it seems that the is turning in to a more steril unified mass rather then having strange extreme peeks wich generate entertainment... (my english isnt so good to explain.)
anyway...
0/
___________________
Eating Chopped Bear:  |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.09.04 21:22:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Agarttha
*sigh*
i wonder if CCP can nerf an overdeveloped sense of entitlement...
That's what you get when a game gives players tons of information, and is highly interactive with the players. The players become spoiled.
Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus
I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy |
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wystler
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.09.04 21:31:00 -
[45]
Despite the "nerfs" that you talk about but do not describe, this game has a steadily INCREASING subscriber rate, whereas SWG for example, has a steadily DECREASING subscriber rate
Some of the changes to the game may upset some, but EVE draws a lot more than it loses
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Valan
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Posted - 2006.09.04 21:39:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Valan on 04/09/2006 21:43:20
Originally by: wystler
Despite the "nerfs" that you talk about but do not describe, this game has a steadily INCREASING subscriber rate, whereas SWG for example, has a steadily DECREASING subscriber rate
Some of the changes to the game may upset some, but EVE draws a lot more than it loses
Yes and we've noticed CCPs sudden change in attitude as its happened. Don't let the success go to your head. The cancel button is right next to the subscribe button. If you don't hold the core you'll be players short when the next big thing comes out. You know how fickle the games business is. You need to grab and hold the new players to make sure they don't move on. Apparently CCP was nearly out of business when EVE was conceived so you do make mistakes.
EDIT: I would like to add. There was a point in EVE history when you had a decreasing subscriber rate. There was mining, pvp and belt ratting and... oh yeh nothing so just take note on which content actually draws players. Look at where those players are.
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
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wystler
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.09.04 22:02:00 -
[47]
I've been playing for between two and three years, and I have no plan to stop! Not all of us ancients sell on our omgwtfpwnleetskills characters
I could never part with mine, its taken far to long to get just where I want
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Atreusa Orgazmatronia
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Posted - 2006.09.04 23:47:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
uhh BM NERF is huge, at least for me. See, I have EvE at work and although i cannot play I can copy and sell BM's which has made me a billionaire and aforded my main to fly in expensive ships and wave his hands in the air like he just don't care when they get blown up. Like that when I actually played the game i did whatever i enjoyed. Also it buys me GTC... SO for me that is the biggest NERF EVER since i started playing. That also seems like a poor way to "fix" bm's. I hope at least you are looking into some other ways.
Also I can't belive somebody from CCP tryed to make a point involving SWG. That is the worst mmorpg ever, comparing to that every other mmorpg shines. The way they are handling that game (swg) it's actually amazing they have any subscribers left. Also one of the main problems of the game was that they just kept changing the rules of the game instead of fixing.
Sorry if I sound upset, but that is huge nerf for me...
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Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.05 00:17:00 -
[49]
Originally by: wystler
I've been playing for between two and three years, and I have no plan to stop! Not all of us ancients sell on our omgwtfpwnleetskills characters
I could never part with mine, its taken far to long to get just where I want
*looks at his 36mil SP char*
hell no. I'm not quitting now. I still need to train for caldari and amarr BS'es, and the cruisers to lvl5 and specialize in med lasers and large guns and fly gallente and minmatar capital ships.
ETA 2 years or so
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Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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xeom
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.09.05 00:27:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Death Kill
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Fleet battles need more immersion than "Primary is..." "Secondary is..." "warp out to...." "good job guys..." - that's what Tux is getting at.
I would love to see it possible to have battles like the opening to SW EpIII - fleets getting mixed up and breaking down into lots of smaller or even 1 v 1 battles between battleships with the support ships weaving in and out.
But EVE has always been command and conquer in space, I dont think the problem lies in changing the mechanincs in that way.
It might have been possible to have battles such as the one you refer to, but that would perhaps require more wide spread solar systems?
It's clear now you have no idea how PVP works.Even more so large fleet battles.More wide spread solar systems are you dense or something?
Please don't post on topics you know nothing about.Everything tuxford says is true and the blob needs to be changed.
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CCP where are our t2 shield power relays?
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Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2006.09.05 06:20:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Edoard Titche
It's a shame but it seems to happen in every mmo after the first few years. Devs start nerfing and tinkering to try and accommodate "casual" players but in the process they always alienate the core fanbase who have put them in their comfortable position in the first place
Look at SWG before the CU and the *shudder* NGE all that needed changing was the balance of the game, so that everyone didnt just use the same uber build. What did SOE do? They effectively nerfed the entire game turning it into a lame FPS that noone had ever wanted or asked for except the lame nubbins who were too lazy to put in the effort and just wanted a World of StarWars Craft.
They got their way but the price was a high one. SWG is now a bug infested ghost town and its got to the point where SOE are practically paying you to play the game, you can go for miles on any given planet in SWG and the only sign of life you'll see are SOE's paid "helpers"
Blizzard are about to drive another nail into their own coffin with the impending release of The Broken Coffee-Machine errr I mean The Burning Crusade with its planned nerf of end-game raiding ( the only reason to even bother with the game) Again blizzard's justification is that they want to balance the game for "casual" players who never get to see end-game.
The truth is however that WoW is far from a challenging game with little skill required by its players ( thats why all the 14 year olds are running around with full epics) Those who don't particiapate in end-game either have no interest in it or are again too lazy to put in the effort (OMGZ GIF FREE EPIX PLZ!)
For pete's sake these are MMO's you're not supposed to be able to complete them in a week! If people want that they should just stick to the myriad of console FPS's and Platform games already on the market, why ruin our enjoyment?
It's not as if there are really a lot of quality MMORPG's to choose from in the first place and those that are around are being constantly nerfed by dev's and the management holding their leashes. Success causes them to lose sight of what made their game popular in the first place all they are really interested in is making more and more money. The only way to get the green is to make games that all the kids will like and that mom and dad will set up the direct debit for..
EVE is suffering a death of a thousand cuts. I implore CCP, as the developer of the only MMO left with real substance, come to your senses before it is too late. SWG should have taught you that we will vote with our feet if we feel betrayed and all you will be left with are 14 year olds who have no loyalty and will simply jump ship as soon as a more shiny toy is put in front of them
Just a word to the wise CCP, I just hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears...
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Dekiri
Useless Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.05 06:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Death Kill
Quote:
Blob != Fleet battle
Have I ever said otherwise?
"!=" means "is not"
Nice eye for the detail there. I was reading it and was completly confused by this, but i would NEVER have thought of the fact that he might not know that != means is not.
Oh my god i am probably a geek now ....
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My dad can beat up your dad!
Support lowsec! |
Lord Violent
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Posted - 2006.09.05 08:00:00 -
[53]
Originally by: wystler
Some of the changes to the game may upset some, but EVE draws a lot more than it loses
This may be true but remeber why it draws these people becuase its core player base is a rational, likeable community who spread through word of mouth the quality of the game they play.
If you push out the people who make the game what it is and im sure we would all agree that this game is made what it is by the community, you lose something significant.
Anyhoo I love the game and always have done but felt that kind of comment can only lead to a chain of thinking resulting in the demise of the game. A company should not take customer loss likely and game utopia is keeping the casual player happy and the vet rewarded.
Remember it was being a game that did things differently that got you where you are, dont go all wow on me now elf boy :p
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Lufio II
Amarr
Dark Seraph
Verisum Family
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Posted - 2006.09.05 08:10:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Atreusa Orgazmatronia
uhh BM NERF is huge, at least for me. See, I have EvE at work and although i cannot play I can copy and sell BM's which has made me a billionaire and aforded my main to fly in expensive ships and wave his hands in the air like he just don't care when they get blown up. Like that when I actually played the game i did whatever i enjoyed. Also it buys me GTC... SO for me that is the biggest NERF EVER since i started playing. That also seems like a poor way to "fix" bm's. I hope at least you are looking into some other ways.
don't know why, but when I read that, it sounds more like they fixed something that was really broken badly ;)
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Atreusa Orgazmatronia
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Posted - 2006.09.05 12:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lufio II
Originally by: Atreusa Orgazmatronia
uhh BM NERF is huge, at least for me. See, I have EvE at work and although i cannot play I can copy and sell BM's which has made me a billionaire and aforded my main to fly in expensive ships and wave his hands in the air like he just don't care when they get blown up. Like that when I actually played the game i did whatever i enjoyed. Also it buys me GTC... SO for me that is the biggest NERF EVER since i started playing. That also seems like a poor way to "fix" bm's. I hope at least you are looking into some other ways.
don't know why, but when I read that, it sounds more like they fixed something that was really broken badly ;)
nothing was broken, except maybe they're ability to come with real solution. BM are part of the game, everybody uses them. I havn't been here from the begining but I hear BM's were, and selling them too... that is what like 3 years?? and now al lof a sudden BOOM! it sux. the only thing that is gonna be broken is my wallet, probably gonna have to start flying slashers...
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Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.09.05 12:43:00 -
[56]
If your going to nerf copying bookmarks, then remove all the bookmarks in the game - wipe them - we can make deep safes and stuff again, but if you really want to have an effect, erase all the BM's.
I have, from 8 and a half months in EVE;
Curse, Providence, Feythabolis, Paragon Soul, Esoteria, Impass, Catch, Stain, Syndicate, Lonetrek, Placid, Kor-Azor, Aridia.
Now, That means I can pretty much get from the Strip Bar at the Bottom of the Universe (ASCN, Paragon Soul, as any map will tell you.) to Empire, and witha few other instas I have, almost get to Syndicate, through Syndicate and into the west without having to move 15km to each gate.
I *know* many people who have *alot* more than me. Wipe them and you'll make journey times longer, but maybe more exciting... Dont just do half a job, so that newbies have to cover the 15km but we dont.
Thanks,
Izo Azlion.
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tiller
Beer and Kebabs
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.05 12:46:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Lo3d3R
Edited by: Lo3d3R on 04/09/2006 20:36:20
Originally by: Wrangler
What exactly are we nerfing, except from maybe a few small things I'm not aware of the last patch was dragon code, and the only nerf in tomorrows patch is BM copying, everything else looks like fixes and such to me.
Well as this may (is ) (be) true, it does look a bit as if CCP is suffering from HWGATIUTA wich is in some management books described as "here we go again taking it up the a.." (not kidding)... it happens when certain people in the company get a new (higher and or different) functionlevel, its a natural process where people want to proove themselves, to do this something must always change to get regonized.
Reading the new tuxford blog made me think of this... all of a sudden the range isnt good anyway nerfing/changing then this, then that, it never stops, change isnt always good.
I think this is what the OP is trying to say, STOP CHANGING everything and specially dont fiddle with base features or facts of life in EVE like: local, jump to range, range setups, allready done damage: stacking penaltys for damage, sensors, remotes etc... I think eve was funnier a while back, it seems that the is turning in to a more steril unified mass rather then having strange extreme peeks wich generate entertainment... (my english isnt so good to explain.)
anyway...
0/
You are so right m8. I loved it when I didn't know if a geddon I was meeting was a gank or tank setup.... the shock of a full on gankageddon hitting you at opt was great.
Why did ccp see it fit to nerf... surely the gank dmg mod fitter was giving away his tank, sounds fair.
Sensor boosters before the stacking nerf could help you lock a frig before it could warp... sure, bad news for the frig, but it took alot of effort to achieve this and should of been something that was allowed in the game mechs.
Nerfing for the name of balance is good up to a point, but extreme setups to achieve a SMALL aim / goal should be allowed and are the variety that makes the eve universe a wonderful place to be.
DONT NERF EXTREME SETUPS, without them we may as well all fly the same ship with 'built in mods' ....nuff said!.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.09.05 12:50:00 -
[58]
Originally by: tiller
Originally by: Lo3d3R
Stuff
More stuff
DONT NERF EXTREME SETUPS, without them we may as well all fly the same ship with 'built in mods' ....nuff said!.
Where ships would come in exact priced packages, and you couldnt sell them for more or less than you bought them for, and it would become like tokens, where 2 Cruisers and a Frig would get you a BC, and it'd be like trading cards!!! YAAAAAY!!!
Tillers right. If I want a 11x+ damage mod on my Deimos I'll have it, but it'll cost me basically all my tank. (note; not my setup :P )
Izo Azlion.
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Malibu Stacey
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.05 14:45:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Malibu Stacey on 05/09/2006 14:48:39
Originally by: Krulla
So you are claiming that the days when nothing came close to being as good as a Armageddon were the "good old days"? WTF? Are you high?
Also, giving "each race their share of overpowered ships" would BE balance, and those ships wouldn't be overpowered.
But I agree on the dual MWD and cruise on frigs - those wouldn't be broken per se as the game is now, because of the added cap and signiture penality on MWDs, and the signiture factor on missiles.
Train your cap skills, your sarcasm detector seems to have switched itself off.
Originally by: Atreusa Orgazmatronia
uhh BM NERF is huge, at least for me. See, I have EvE at work and although i cannot play I can copy and sell BM's which has made me a billionaire and aforded my main to fly in expensive ships and wave his hands in the air like he just don't care when they get blown up. Like that when I actually played the game i did whatever i enjoyed. Also it buys me GTC... SO for me that is the biggest NERF EVER since i started playing. That also seems like a poor way to "fix" bm's. I hope at least you are looking into some other ways.
This would be funny if you weren't deadly serious.
<insert random whine here>
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! |
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