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Seraph IX Basarab Hades Effect 531	Posted - 2015.01.22 15:59:34 - [151] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: I only want a pilot jump limit and re-cyno delay on covert cynos, but that's beside the point. I was pointing out that you were being to quick to seal the idea off as not possibly working. Go ahead and disagree with it, or pick out problems with it. But you should slow down a bit before dropping accusations that it's ill-conceived from the ground up and couldn't possibly be further balanced to work decently. If anyone needs local numerical superiority it's covert cyno ships that are much less tanky than conventional ships. It isn't that i didn't think through the possibilities, it's that I did and still saw how bad they were. Reaver Glitterstim wrote: The burden of proof always lies on the one making an extraordinary claim, regardless of political position. source I'm not really sure who was making extraordinary claims as I can't really tell what you guys were going on about for sure. Since the current game mechanics are the norm, and Jen wants to change them, I'd imagine he's making the extraordinary claims. When slowcats were rebalanced, when blaptitans were rebalanced, when drakes and canes were rebalanaced, people provided stats to back their argument. Hades Effect
Dradis Aulmais By Light and Banner's Fallen 651	Posted - 2015.01.22 16:07:39 - [152] - Quote I think we are getting away from Jen's campaign. CSM 10: Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9411	Posted - 2015.01.22 20:35:32 - [153] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Your post history is full of making gamebreakingly bad suggestions -AND A WHOLE LOT OF VICTIMHOOD THINKING-. And little else. -1. No need for me to have original thought when i can just add to Kaarous' Can't speak for the rest of the pve community, but -1 from this one as well.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11380	Posted - 2015.01.23 00:03:24 - [154] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Perhaps if you had been reading Jenshae's posting history, you'd notice she's come a long way. Yeah, she used to hate nullsec, now she hates PvP of any kind. I have seen her recently speak out against several things, and the only thing they had in common is that they all enable PvP of some kind. I see no merit whatsoever in their candidacy. So here's my endorsement. If you don't hate PvP of every kind, don't vote for the OP. Quote: I think you spend too much time assuming people never change and should perhaps check back once in a while before you make accusations about someone that might no longer be true. And I think a good player can never grow out of a bad attitude. And I still see that in spades. Quote: Also, constructive criticism is always many times more helpful than destructive criticism. But so much less fun. Nevermind that this is not an F&I suggestion, no matter how much it looks like one. This is the CSM campaign. "constructive" criticism is quite simply not called for here. Especially towards someone who rabidly refuses to answer any criticism with anything other than summary dismissals. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2278	Posted - 2015.01.23 00:17:17 - [155] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: This is the CSM campaign. "constructive" criticism is quite simply not called for here. correction: not required, but it is recommended But I'm tired of dealing with ignorant folks and you have no excuse as we've been down this road enough times before, you and I. So I'll suffice to say that your accusations of Jenshae are in fact factually inaccurate as is demonstrated by her more recent posts as well as her edits to the original CSM 10 candidacy platform which you would know if you had read any of it. CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2278	Posted - 2015.01.23 00:31:33 - [156] - Quote Seraph IX Basarab wrote: If anyone needs local numerical superiority it's covert cyno ships that are much less tanky than conventional ships. It isn't that i didn't think through the possibilities, it's that I did and still saw how bad they were. But they can warp while cloaked. Main reason I think covert cyno hotdrops should be limited in size is because they so easily evade intel that you never know if they're coming except when the system is completely free of non-blues. It seems unreasonable to me that one red in local could potentially turn into 250 reds in an instant and not at a gate or other beacon visible on the overview, and there's no way for you to calculate the probability with available intel. I would have limited the size to 10 ships per covert cyno, which is plenty enough for a good gank and to hold ground while waiting out a brief timer of, say, 1 minute until they can light a regular cyno or more covert cynos. Also, easy way around the limitation is to bring multiple covert ops ships through the gates in the first place. Depending on how that pans out, might have to limit to 5 per covert cyno after all, but I'm optimistic about it. A brief summary of views expressed in this thread, for comparison: Jenshae Chiroptera: The ease of forcing PVP upon an unwilling participant should be balanced with the unwilling participant's ability to prevent PVP. Both parties should have to work toward their goal, and both should be given the tools to do so. Most responders: We don't want you on CSM because you are anti-PVP and you want themepark gameplay, but this is a PVP game and themepark gameplay should be marginalized to a strong degree. Most supporters: Themepark gameplay is currently over-marginalized and while PVP is acceptable, we want enough safety to make PVE activities outside of highsec even viable at all. Reaver Glitterstim: Jenshae's proposals have undergone many edits and reiterations since the original, and I recommend you all to take a look at what has changed. While I am only partially in support of Jenshae's candidacy platform, that support is growing quickly and I am eager to see what she comes up with next. I suspect Jenshae will make an excellent CSM candidate in a later election. CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 793	Posted - 2015.01.23 00:38:09 - [157] - Quote Dradis Aulmais wrote: I think we are getting away from Jen's campaign. Activity draws attention and helps spread the campaign thread and message. Dradis Aulmais wrote: And how is someone who is actually AFK going to hurt you? I don't see the argument here. The AFK cloaker: - is perfectly safe - has the potential to drop at any moment - can not be evicted or hunted even in your home system. I am looking for ways that they need to play actively to get the benefits of what they do. They shouldn't get a free lunch in our home. (Other posts, I will read fully and respond after some sleep). CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11380	Posted - 2015.01.23 00:41:31 - [158] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: which you would know if you had read any of it. I did. I also reported her posting here in the first place, since she was doing this as a deliberate farce to advocate for the dissolution of the CSM. And since you went ahead and reposted a TL;DR, it turns out I was right. Quote: Jenshae Chiroptera: The ease of forcing PVP upon an unwilling participant should be balanced with the unwilling participant's ability to prevent PVP. Both parties should have to work toward their goal, and both should be given the tools to do so. My rebuttal. Go back to WoW. PvP is a fundamental part of EVE, non consensual PvP included. There exist already more than enough means for prevention of PvP, in all areas of space. Well, that is, if you use your whole ass. The OP's candidacy exists solely to campaign for the right of people to play the game deliberately incorrectly and still be safe from harm. If you want a themepark, go play one. Stop trying to shove that distasteful thing into my sandbox game, it is most unwelcome. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2279	Posted - 2015.01.23 00:44:04 - [159] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: AFK cloaker: - is perfectly safe - has the potential to drop at any moment - can not be evicted or hunted even in your home system. I am looking for ways that they need to play actively to get the benefits of what they do. They shouldn't get a free lunch in our home. Well said. An excellent example of some of the hypocrisy we see in common viewpoints about themepark gameplay. If it is wrong for PVEers to avoid PVP with no ability to be pursued, then it is wrong for PVPers to avoid PVP with no ability to be pursued. CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11380	Posted - 2015.01.23 00:47:14 - [160] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Well said. An excellent example of some of the hypocrisy we see in common viewpoints about themepark gameplay. It's an excellent example of an obvious strawman, anyway. Quote: If it is wrong for PVEers to avoid PVP with no ability to be pursued, then it is wrong for PVPers to avoid PVP with no ability to be pursued. A PvE player can just as easily cloak in a safe. Nothing prevents them from doing this, it is not some exclusive activity, nor do you make money while doing so. In fact, you can't do a whole lot of anything. What PvE players want, on the other hand, is to be safe while performing lucrative activities. That is 100% unacceptable. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 793	Posted - 2015.01.23 01:16:29 - [161] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Because right now, it honestly just looks like someone that does pve complaining about someone doing pvp. That's the TL;DR of their entire post history, dude. "playing the wrong game" has rarely fit anyone better. Perhaps if you had been reading Jenshae's posting history, you'd notice she's come a long way. Where I once saw a lot of blind hatred toward nullsec, I now see a much more informed view. Jenshae was once a rookie but will perhaps someday be a bitter vet. I think you spend too much time assuming people never change and should perhaps check back once in a while before you make accusations about someone that might no longer be true. Also, constructive criticism is always many times more helpful than destructive criticism. This caught my eye before I closed the thread. Reaver, waste no more time, energy or your finely crafted words on Kaarous. (I have his posts hidden, told him openly that he is just a waste of my time and asked him to stop following me around the forums like a sulky child because I got his "Coup de gr+óce"reversed). By his own admission, he is here for forum PVP. He does nothing to forward ideas, develop them or try and take EVE as a whole forward. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2279	Posted - 2015.01.23 01:56:02 - [162] - Quote Here I will heed your wishes, but my normal response is to adamantly continue to treat all criticisms with a serious, honest, and direct tone and give them reasonable attention as if they were meaningful posts, whether or not I suspect them to be. CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11382	Posted - 2015.01.23 02:03:35 - [163] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Here I will heed your wishes, but my normal response is to adamantly continue to treat all criticisms with a serious, honest, and direct tone and give them reasonable attention as if they were meaningful posts, whether or not I suspect them to be. Which is why you, of the two, have my respect. The person you're adhering to on the other hand displays astonishing intellectual dishonesty. Even Dinsdale was better than this. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Seraph IX Basarab Hades Effect 537	Posted - 2015.01.23 07:23:00 - [164] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Seraph IX Basarab wrote: If anyone needs local numerical superiority it's covert cyno ships that are much less tanky than conventional ships. It isn't that i didn't think through the possibilities, it's that I did and still saw how bad they were. But they can warp while cloaked. Main reason I think covert cyno hotdrops should be limited in size is because they so easily evade intel that you never know if they're coming except when the system is completely free of non-blues. It seems unreasonable to me that one red in local could potentially turn into 250 reds in an instant and not at a gate or other beacon visible on the overview, and there's no way for you to calculate the probability with available intel. I would have limited the size to 10 ships per covert cyno, which is plenty enough for a good gank and to hold ground while waiting out a brief timer of, say, 1 minute until they can light a regular cyno or more covert cynos. Also, easy way around the limitation is to bring multiple covert ops ships through the gates in the first place. Depending on how that pans out, might have to limit to 5 per covert cyno after all, but I'm optimistic about it. And the defender can do the same, fit his own cyno, lay his trap. The type of gameplay you advocate gives less power to small groups, furthers a carebear mentality and cements the strength of powerblocs even more. I don't speak as a "goon" or an N3 member but as someone that flies in groups of 2-5 often dealing with enemies that are better equipped and numerically superior. My mind is eased knowing for certain such a mentality will never have a relevant voice in affecting Eve's gameplay. Hades Effect
Tora Bushido EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 1835	Posted - 2015.01.23 10:09:22 - [165] - Quote After reading the first page, I had the impression that the OP was a troll on steroids and stopped reading the rest. So any good points you might have made after page 1 are wasted on me. If you want people to listen to you, you might want to consider making a more serious OP. TORA FOR CSM X - A NEW HIGH-SEC YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - ADAPT OR DIE - DELETE THE WEAK
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2280	Posted - 2015.01.23 10:38:37 - [166] - Quote Seraph IX Basarab wrote: And the defender can do the same, fit his own cyno, lay his trap. The type of gameplay you advocate gives less power to small groups, furthers a carebear mentality and cements the strength of powerblocs even more. I don't speak as a "goon" or an N3 member but as someone that flies in groups of 2-5 often dealing with enemies that are better equipped and numerically superior. My mind is eased knowing for certain such a mentality will never have a relevant voice in affecting Eve's gameplay. I'm not convinced that is the case. An aggressor is not limited to ten covert aggressors total, but rather is limited to ten covert aggressors per covert cyno per minute. The major thing I see coming out of this is a small window to react to a covert hotdrop. Anyone who wants to bypass it can merely use a non-covert hotdrop. This will make it easier to fly capital ships in small groups, which may or may not be used more by large alliances (probably will). This in turn will lead to capital deaths which will make it easier for small groups to roam free. I'm speculating here, I'm uncertain of the effects and I really do support anything that gives large blocs like TEST less power. We have plenty to share. CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Corbexx
Dradis Aulmais By Light and Banner's Fallen 655	Posted - 2015.01.23 13:24:15 - [167] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Dradis Aulmais wrote: And how is someone who is actually AFK going to hurt you? I don't see the argument here. The AFK cloaker: - is perfectly safe - has the potential to drop at any moment - can not be evicted or hunted even in your home system. I am looking for ways that they need to play actively to get the benefits of what they do. They shouldn't get a free lunch in our home. (Other posts, I will read fully and respond after some sleep). Nether could a station docker everywhere but your home system and if I really don't want u to remove me from your home system you never will. Remove the cyno from everything smaller than a cruiser. CSM 10: Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2281	Posted - 2015.01.23 15:14:15 - [168] - Quote Docking is not like cloaking, because a cloaked pilot (in a covert ops ship) can roam about and watch what's going on, gather intel, relay intel, set up for an ambush, and make plans. A docked player can only do what doesn't include gathering intel or moving into a strategic position. CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Corbexx
Dradis Aulmais By Light and Banner's Fallen 656	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:03:06 - [169] - Quote I can from dock see who's in systems cross check their kill boards to see what ships they most offten use. From there I can tell when these players gather they most offten do this. Flying this. So now I know a fleet is being form. Ok why would the form a fleet. Well I know this timer here and here is about to pop. Now I know if they are going for this timer they will have to Travel here to get to the timer. Ambush set. Intel gathered CSM 10: Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Jenshae chrioptera Do No Vote For: Tora Bushido, Bobmon
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2281	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:11:59 - [170] - Quote If you consider that intel to be on par with intel gathered from and strategic placement of ships in covert cloak, then you're just bad at using intel and strategic placement options. CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Corbexx

Dradis Aulmais By Light and Banner's Fallen 657	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:16:30 - [171] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: If you consider that intel to be on par with intel gathered from and strategic placement of ships in covert cloak, then you're just bad at using intel and strategic placement options. Not as good yes But when the cloak gets nerfed it will be the next thing you will be crying about CSM 10: Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Jenshae chrioptera Do No Vote For: Tora Bushido, Bobmon
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2281	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:17:53 - [172] - Quote Dradis Aulmais wrote: Reaver Glitterstim wrote: If you consider that intel to be on par with intel gathered from and strategic placement of ships in covert cloak, then you're just bad at using intel and strategic placement options. Not as good yes But when the cloak gets nerfed it will be the next thing you will be crying about Are you sure about that? What's the last nerf I ever cried about? edit: startling realization on my part: I don't think I have ever disliked any nerfs thus far in EVE. CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Corbexx
Dradis Aulmais By Light and Banner's Fallen 657	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:26:32 - [173] - Quote You was being used in the communal sense suh as you all sry I wasnt clear I don't personaly follow your every post CSM 10: Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Jenshae chrioptera Do No Vote For: Tora Bushido, Bobmon
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2281	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:38:10 - [174] - Quote I don't think most of Jenshae's supporters will complain about covert cloak nerfs. CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Corbexx
Dradis Aulmais By Light and Banner's Fallen 657	Posted - 2015.01.23 16:59:59 - [175] - Quote Rephrase when cloaking gets nerfed , dock campers will be the next thing you will cry about. CSM 10: Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Jenshae chrioptera Do No Vote For: Tora Bushido, Bobmon
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2281	Posted - 2015.01.23 17:05:42 - [176] - Quote I'm interested to learn how dock campers are really all that scary. CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Corbexx
Dradis Aulmais By Light and Banner's Fallen 657	Posted - 2015.01.23 17:19:48 - [177] - Quote I feel the same way about cloakers CSM 10: Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Jenshae chrioptera Do No Vote For: Tora Bushido, Bobmon
Seraph IX Basarab Hades Effect 543	Posted - 2015.01.23 18:58:41 - [178] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Docking is not like cloaking, because a cloaked pilot (in a covert ops ship) can roam about and watch what's going on, gather intel, relay intel, set up for an ambush, and make plans. A docked player can only do what doesn't include gathering intel or moving into a strategic position. Here's what you're having problems understanding though. Both the attacker AND the defender can use cloaked ships. If there is a tool in the game and I use it better than you, that's not the tool's fault. It's yours. Hades Effect
Tengu Grib Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 876	Posted - 2015.01.23 19:56:13 - [179] - Quote The way that the OP responds to comments, whether he agrees with them or disagrees, shows me that he would be terrible member of the CSM. Summary dismissal of people without views other than your own is the exact opposite of what a good CSM candidate needs to demonstrate. Seeing how the OP seems to think the CSM should be dissolved anyways I think that anyone who is considering voting for him should seriously reconsider. There are other people who hold similar views who would actually be useful contributors to the game and it's development. I urge everyone to NOT vote for the OP. Sabriz for CSMX! Consider voting Tora as well.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2283	Posted - 2015.01.23 20:05:55 - [180] - Quote Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Here's what you're having problems understanding though. Both the attacker AND the defender can use cloaked ships. If there is a tool in the game and I use it better than you, that's not the tool's fault. It's yours. Wrong. A planned attack can heavily involve covert ops ships, but it is not nearly as possible to respond to a covert ops attack with covert ops ships because the defenders did not have enough warning time to suspect a covert ops attack. My problem with the current cloaking mechanic is not that it hurts some people more than others (it doesn't) but that it stagnates PVP in general and leads to fewer kills due to increased danger, due to decreased intel. CSM X: Sabriz Adoudel, Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Corbexx



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