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Merc's- Scum of the universe, or valuable resource?

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merc999 Caldari Turbulent Subversion	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:06:00 - [1] Edited by: merc999 on 06/09/2006 00:11:47 On another thread it has grown off the original subject, and spread to a general discussion of the Merc'ing profession. rather than drag that thread any further of its course i thought I would start the discussion here. I suppose your personal opinion of mercenary pilots and corps would very much depend on your experience of them, wether as a member of a client corps/alliance, member of a target corps alliance or perhaps as a victim of "Empire pirate" merc's. I know that to some we are seen as angels who came dashing in during their hour of need, a industrial small corp being permanently bullied and ransomed by the local PvP corps. a couple of weeks of PvP experienced mercs clearing the area can make the world of difference to a small corps morale and isk balance. To a corp/alliance already being battered by an enemy the addition of extra combat hardened pilots can be the straw that breaks the teams morale and ruins many months /years hard work building up a succesful enterprise. but I would arue that merc'ing is an honourable profession, a merc doesnt fight you with a hidden agenda,he doesnt pretend to be your friend to fight alongside you. when the battle is over and the contract ended the merc leaves with no grudge , wether you killed him more or he killed you more, he flies back home with all he wants, the isk in his pocket. Merc's are need in the eve universe, because no matter how big you are , and how hard you hit, someone will always come along and try to take you down,and if they are lucky then you may need to quickly boltser your forces, and if they dont achieve their objectives they will need to be able to reinforce to hold back the retribution you will wish to exact. merc's are not a nescessary evil, they are a essential part of corporate survival well thats my view !! Scum.. well the psuedo merc corps maybe( I wish they would just call themselves empire pirates) Valuable resource... definatly But there again.... I may just be a little biased !!! MERC999 Public Relations Director TBSV Keeping Empire and Syndicate ship builders in business
Drakma Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:11:00 - [2] I say they're Valuable Scum.
Major Stormer Caldari Demon Womb Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:14:00 - [3] Total Scum. They do rock however. think of the Empire in Star Wars. Noone denies that they are totally and uttly evil, but everyone likes them the best Merc corps rock. I aspire to be just as scumlike in my future pvp life :) (or, my 200ths clone, whatever -------------------------- 0.01 ISK to the first mod that writes in my sig! :D Pay cash value in cookies plskthx - Immy Oh man thats gonna be a lot of cookies. Make them chocolate chip aswell - Xorus I'll give ya a goat for them cookies!-Tirg
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:45:00 - [4] Actual professional mercenaries are fine and useful and surprisingly rare. The problem which tends to besmirch the 'merc' name though, is that a great many corps will wardec a target for personal gain, and then declare them to be a contract. "Oh yes, we were hired to abuse those big bad ISS haulers while they roamed through empire." Besides which, the simple fact that PvP is fun means you can't drop a rock without bumping into someone who wishes they could be paid to PvP. So it tends to attract absolutely anyone who has a pulse, and further sullying the image.
Heraklitus Nomidzon 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.09.06 00:58:00 - [5] I think Mistress Suffering alludes to one of the reasons why properly professional & impartial mercenaries are rather rare---being a merc can get quite boring at times. We had this problem in Battle Angels. Sometimes you can get a really fat contract that provides tons of chances for fighting against fun enemies (usually those are the "Go clear this area" type contracts), but other times it's hard and dull--the targets don't come out much, or the target is small. And if you're going to preserve the image of being impartial, you can't just go shooting someone else because you're bored. That's bad for business for a number of reasons, the first of which is that the person you just shot could be your next customer. It really takes a lot of discipline and willingness to trudge through sometimes long stretches of time without huge numbers of targets. Battle Angels was on contract almost continuously for its entire existence, and were, I think, among the more successful merc groups that have been around, and we still had this problem. Mercs who are able and willing to restrain themselves to their contract, conduct their business professionally, and really produce results all at the same time have my highest respect. It's a hard job.
Zaphod Jones Celtic Anarchy Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.06 01:22:00 - [6] Valuable resource definately, The scum of the universe that you are thinking of are the new batch of power mad ISD's that are currently over moderating
Dracolich North Star Networks Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 02:03:00 - [7] Yes, merc's are scum of the ... I mean No... eh what was the question again? _______________________________________ Does killing the weak, make you feel strong?
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.06 02:07:00 - [8] Hmm. I don't see who it is that stands a judges a merc group when they perform a contract on someone who is causing a problem. Not everyone causes a problem with pvp ships. I think that many of these contracts that are sought for babysitting, or petty vengeance are only sought because the other types are inadequately marketed. I think more mercs should take a page from Lai Dai Security, or whomever, and simply try to defend the interests of a client, howsoever callous or greedy. Mercs shouldn't be in the business of determining the moral character of their employers. That's just unprofessional, and hurts the bottom line.
Cheechako Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 03:15:00 - [9] It's just business
Talthrus Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 03:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Cheechako It's just business Exactly. ----------------------

Altai Saker Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.09.06 05:18:00 - [11] What's better than being a contract killer? Not much. Also I'd like to point at that eve is the only mmo that this profession exists and is prosperous... So awesome.
Agent Kenshin Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 05:22:00 - [12] Originally by: Altai Saker What's better than being a contract killer? Not much. Also I'd like to point at that eve is the only mmo that this profession exists and is prosperous... So awesome. Even if some of the game mechanics dont quite support it completely. Contracts system may prove to help. However it goes to show you that you can do just about anything within the rules of the game. ----- Station Invunerablity POS Module
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 05:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Lygos Mercs shouldn't be in the business of determining the moral character of their employers. Agreed. This also means that there will be times when you agree to do a job you'd personally rather not take due to various factors. Originally by: Heraklitus Nomidzon I think Mistress Suffering alludes to one of the reasons why properly professional & impartial mercenaries are rather rare---being a merc can get quite boring at times. This is the downfall of most 'mercs' - boredom. I've yet to see a corp attempt this line of work and not have to deal with this problem. Those that succeed are still around. Those that don't move on to do other more 'fun' things. cough Corsets & Carebears cough - Remember Shaelin
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.09.06 05:36:00 - [14] Yeah I imagine it could get boring when you don't have a job and have to refrain from shooing anyone.
Agent Kenshin Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 05:40:00 - [15] Originally by: NATMav Yeah I imagine it could get boring when you don't have a job and have to refrain from shooing anyone. The roids still show up to fight. ----- Station Invunerablity POS Module
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 05:55:00 - [16] Edited by: Seleene on 06/09/2006 05:55:24 Originally by: Agent Kenshin Originally by: NATMav Yeah I imagine it could get boring when you don't have a job and have to refrain from shooing anyone. The roids still show up to fight. ^^ MC's version of Dianabolic tbh... - Remember Shaelin
Lamb Chop KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.09.06 06:46:00 - [17] I think it is a profession just like anything else. People don't like carebears either. Or scammers or <Insert random profession here> depending on their experience. But name Merc has bad mojo attached to it due to the fact many griefers call themselves mercs. Hopefully with the contract system and contract history this will change a bit. As for boring jobs, you have to get through the exterior of a fruit to reach the juicy tasty bit in the middle. Just a Job.
Rina Shanu Peace Loving Criminals	Posted - 2006.09.06 07:42:00 - [18] First I'd like to say I love mercs as much as I like pirates. Second I consider them needed. 1. make the isk move - moving cash is important to any economy - from client to merc corp 2. blow stuff up - needs to be replaced - isk is needed - stuff is built - economy runs 3. are a constant shadow out there, the uncertainty factor - keep things interesting 4. eve is mostly pvp based, what would we do without mercs? No, mercs are not the scum of the universe. Pirates are usually as are those masking piracy. Hmm, perhaps pirates are not scum. Yeah, merc are not scam, pirates are not scam, ordinary pvpers are not scum, hmm, that leaves those scammers to be scum. Yep. scammers are scum. RECRUITMENT this ok dear?
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.06 07:53:00 - [19] I love mercs, without them why bother trying to become superrich ? http://eve.klaki.net/
Kaleeb Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.09.06 07:54:00 - [20] Yes your completely right Seleene is scum of the universe closely followed by roid captain trooper Originally by: Blacklight Last night was an 'anomoly' for different reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with skill or who were the better pvpers.

Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 07:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Kaleeb Yes your completely right Seleene is scum of the universe closely followed by roid captain trooper I'll have you know that MC kills quite a few pirates in between contracts as a Community Service. The cries of the griefed call out to us and we must respond!! Yes, in our world three pirate BS kills make up for popping transports full of homeless orphans while on contrat. - Remember Shaelin
Heraklitus Nomidzon 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.09.06 08:07:00 - [22] Originally by: Seleene Originally by: Kaleeb Yes your completely right Seleene is scum of the universe closely followed by roid captain trooper I'll have you know that MC kills quite a few pirates in between contracts as a Community Service. The cries of the griefed call out to us and we must respond!! Yes, in our world three pirate BS kills make up for popping transports full of homeless orphans while on contrat. Heh, yea, we did the same thing--one concession we made to neutrality in the interests of keeping ourselves amused in the slow periods.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.09.06 08:12:00 - [23] Originally by: NATMav Yeah I imagine it could get boring when you don't have a job and have to refrain from shooing anyone. Yeah, hence we are no longer officially mercs. Pirates who occasionally get paid to kill someone is where its at
Kaleeb Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.09.06 08:14:00 - [24] NPC's dont count sel! Originally by: Blacklight Last night was an 'anomoly' for different reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with skill or who were the better pvpers.
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.09.06 08:34:00 - [25] KIA has been here since the inception or the Mercenary Profession in Eve, it has changed an awful lot, with many corps pretending to be mercs as cover for a Piratical need to kill stuff. Boredom is the biggest factor for a Merc corp to deal with, its something KIA has really suffered from in the past, but the groove is running now for us, and we now have approved NBSI training grounds for our pilots, this has helped alleviate pressure. The largest single obstacle faced by a Merc corp though is contract quality. Its too easy to take a contract that is financially lucrative, but offers very little in the way of fun for the corp. The balance that you must find as a leader of a corp like KIA is a fine one, and not easy, but we seem to be getting it just about right recently... hope that continues. Size is also an issue, We are now over 20 members online night in night out, over 30 at peak times... for a merc corp and a PvP focused unit this is a healthy size, but again retaining membership is an ongoing struggle, the core never leave, they take a sense of pride in their name, and every so often a new member joins that core, takes some ownership in its corps name and feels a true part and sponsor of the corp, but it takes a hell of a lot of time, and one bad contract can undo months of hard work. I think one of the hardest style of corps to run in the game is a Merc one, its a constant battle to keep your members happy, your employers satisfied, and your real life balanced ;) On a side note, and this is only a personal note... The BE's of the Eve World harm the Merc name, with their cowardly tactics and smacktastic unprofessional approach (and of course the inability to control their trigger fingers), they give the Merc profession a bad name and generally embarrass the rest of us..... that said, I still feel the few honourable Mercenary Corps are the ones the big guys turn to when they need a job done, and as long as that continues the Merc profession will remain healthy within Eves hallowed walls. KIA Piccys
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.09.06 11:31:00 - [26] Scum Unnerf Amarr! "Just because you can utterly ruin another player's game doesn't mean that you must."
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.09.06 11:45:00 - [27] Originally by: KIAEddZ The BE's of the Eve World harm the Merc name, with their cowardly tactics and smacktastic unprofessional approach (and of course the inability to control their trigger fingers), they give the Merc profession a bad name and generally embarrass the rest of us..... that said, I still feel the few honourable Mercenary Corps are the ones the big guys turn to when they need a job done, and as long as that continues the Merc profession will remain healthy within Eves hallowed walls. Are you sure it has nothing to do with the fact our contact performance is better than yours every single time? This, desipte you having by your own admission 5 times as many active pilots..... I understand you can get embarrased when compared to us, but give it some more practice. You'll get better eventually.
Trooper B99 Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 11:55:00 - [28] Originally by: Kaleeb Yes your completely right Seleene is scum of the universe closely followed by roid captain trooper HEY! I resemble that implication! . . .err . . Personally I often classify mercs in three or four categories depending on how they act. Its a rough and ready kinda thing and there is overlap of/c, but there are many kinda of merc out there depedning on what your need is in a given situation. Be it all out warfare, covert actions, harrassment etc etc etc. There is plenty out there to suit your needs and your budget. a)Professional Mercs - for whom keeping the client happy is the most important and image is highly important. They always follow contracts through to the best of their ability. However, their member base can suffer from the "image is everything neutrality" kinda thing. Contractual work is their mainstay. ie the MC b)PvP Mercs - for whom getting the kill and keeping up a line of targets is most important. Thats not to say that they don't want to keep the client happy, but its often not primary in their way of thinking. They tend to pick contracts on # kills available. Contractual work is something they enjoy doing for the extra cash, but will happily PvP against anything. ie BYDI c)Pirate Mercs - for whom getting kills and loot is most important but again, thats not to say that clients wishes aren't important, just not as important as the booty. They tend not to take contracts very often and are pretty selective about what will give the best return. Will happily kill anything anywhere for loot even if its not a war target. ie Warmongers d)Wannabe Mercs - for whom the contract is more often than not made up and they just want to gank ISS at Jita 4-4. Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
GoGo Yubari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 11:57:00 - [29] Yeah, boredom is the big killer. Most people who come into the profession are PvP hungry berserkers, so the downtimes and even some of the contracts themselves can be a struggle for such. Externally, a merc unit is evaluated based on their effectiveness (customer satisfaction). Internally, it's all about managing the boredom matter, ie. leadership/motivation. Personally, on contract you go out and kill people, off contract you stay in the bar and drink away your earnings.
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 12:08:00 - [30] Originally by: GoGo Yubari Personally, on contract you go out and kill people, off contract you stay in the bar and drink away your earnings. Another way to look at is it that we keep the dogs (players without mining alts) in the basement and starve them for a few weeks. When it's time for them to come out and play, they are ravenous and mean. - Remember Shaelin

Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.06 12:16:00 - [31] For the most part, mercenaries are a useful and interesting part of the game, and they certainly liven things up. I just wish that they'd stop getting hired by my enemies Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 12:22:00 - [32] Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: KIAEddZ The BE's of the Eve World harm the Merc name, with their cowardly tactics and smacktastic unprofessional approach (and of course the inability to control their trigger fingers), they give the Merc profession a bad name and generally embarrass the rest of us..... that said, I still feel the few honourable Mercenary Corps are the ones the big guys turn to when they need a job done, and as long as that continues the Merc profession will remain healthy within Eves hallowed walls. Are you sure it has nothing to do with the fact our contact performance is better than yours every single time? This, desipte you having by your own admission 5 times as many active pilots..... I understand you can get embarrased when compared to us, but give it some more practice. You'll get better eventually. Most serious contracts are not about killratios. They have more complex goals, sometimes way more straightforward goals and sometimes the goals of a contract can boggle the mind of the mercenary. Yes, some contracts are about cleansweeping an entire area, but then the client really doesnt give a whole lot if you lose twice as many ships as another merc outfit while killing the same. ------------------------------------------
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.09.06 13:15:00 - [33] Originally by: Shin Ra Are you sure it has nothing to do with the fact our contact performance is better than yours every single time? This, desipte you having by your own admission 5 times as many active pilots..... I understand you can get embarrased when compared to us, but give it some more practice. You'll get better eventually. LoL Your a joke Shin, cmon man you know it, I know it, everyone knows it. No one mutters your 6 man teams name when talking of serious Merc corps, your just the smacktalkers who gank. You think any other half assedgank group couldnt get your stats if they fought like cowards and ran like girls?? 4 Ravens and a few tacklers all wearing LOW SLOT MAX stabs, does not constitute a skilled fighting force, your a 1 trick pony, nothing more and nothing less. ;) xx KIA Piccys
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.09.06 13:29:00 - [34] Originally by: KIAEddZ Originally by: Shin Ra Are you sure it has nothing to do with the fact our contact performance is better than yours every single time? This, desipte you having by your own admission 5 times as many active pilots..... I understand you can get embarrased when compared to us, but give it some more practice. You'll get better eventually. LoL Your a joke Shin, cmon man you know it, I know it, everyone knows it. No one mutters your 6 man teams name when talking of serious Merc corps, your just the smacktalkers who gank. You think any other half assedgank group couldnt get your stats if they fought like cowards and ran like girls?? 4 Ravens and a few tacklers all wearing LOW SLOT MAX stabs, does not constitute a skilled fighting force, your a 1 trick pony, nothing more and nothing less. ;) xx We don't claim to be professional mercs. We fall somewhere between c and d on Trooper's list. I am shocked at how little indeed you know of us. And we beat you not only on ratio, but on pure kill stats too. The only reason you get your pityful respect is because people have no problems fighting you, your tactics and results and ordinary. Your draconian corp rules and policies do no make you an excellent combat unit. They only make the real pvpers in EVE, the ones you should be afraid of, think of you as an arrogrant noob. I don't know where you get this idea of LOW SLOT MAX stabs on all our ships, but if the rest of your opinion of us is formed by forum chinese-whispers, you might as well accept that you nothing about us or how we operate except from what you read on the forums. Infact, the majoirty of people we kill still have no idea what our tactics really are. I can't count the number of times we've been accused of "teleporting" an other rubbish like that. So you can keep your worthless frig and cruiser ganksquads to yourself and let the pros handle the big guns. If you have to result to half-assed insults like OMG you have stabs and smacktalk, in order to downplay your own inferiority, then keep trying. Everyone can see through your sherade. Hugs and kisses Shin ra p.s you may want to look back on some of our other threads for insults. I believe we also run from anything resembling a fight and use log-off tactics too.
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.09.06 13:36:00 - [35] Edited by: KIAEddZ on 06/09/2006 13:36:02 LoL Cage Ratlled a little Shinny? As I said b4, your a nothing entity, a 1 trick pony, kills a bit loses very little, if we all employed your methods, and were willing to debase ourselves to that level of course, then we'd all get the same results. Its about respect, and quite simply on the whole, you dont get any.... wander why that is. You cant do anything with your little corp other than go to an area and make a nuisance of yourselves, so many contracts are far more than that, but of course you wouldnt have the first clue about that, unless its smack and stabs, irrelevant of your claims otherwise, you don't even get a look in. Why don't you list the services your corp offers.... we are all listening. KIA Piccys
Velsharoon Gallente Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.09.06 13:39:00 - [36] Seleene is right, mercing is cool but it does take guts to see it through, and a true dedication to the cause and all the erm...problems that come with it. Some cant hack it (me!) and so fall by the wayside and simply become pirates...preying on the weak for their stuff! Being labelled a merc is cool, and I certainly didnt mind having the reputation. But well Im happier without having to defend an outpost or mine 100k trit a day for industrial ops...and well when you see that neutral hauler in 0.0...he should have known better right? Fact is mercs are griefers, scum, trash like the rest of it, I actually got more hatemail mercing than pirating But they are as you say knights in shining armour, I know one of eyeshdows problems with how sharks was run in the early days was that we rescued his corp just on a whim almost (hi AOI!)and then turned around within weeks and destroyed 2 corps who irritated us...cant even remember their names...(this was just us mucking around it wasnt a contract but the mentality is the same) But to me that is what neutrality is all about you truely dont care...you have no morals beyond those imposed by your profession (get paid in the mcs case, always keep your word for a pirate etc) Valuable entities they are indeed pokes seleene to come play with us. Somethings a 20 man pirate corp cant do on their own
Velsharoon Gallente Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.09.06 13:42:00 - [37] Originally by: KIAEddZ Edited by: KIAEddZ on 06/09/2006 13:36:02 Its about respect, and quite simply on the whole, you dont get any.... wander why that is. You know what i respect them more than you because they freely admit their tactics...and they are effective. So what if the enemy doesnt like it, your not their for their entertainment UDIE smack is ofc legendary an dsomething I dont like...but hell your busy dissing them for being a small corp and not offering services. Doesnt make them any less mercenary when they accept money to do a job which will always be within their reach to do. You can do more than they can. Yay for you?
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.09.06 13:51:00 - [38] The population as a whole sees Stab Whoring and the resultant crowing with a pretty dim view I think... (if BE believe that saying it doesnt make it so, then they are more deluded than I thought, ask the members of my corp that have had the mispleasure of having to deal with them) KIA dont get the kill death ratio BE do, but we bring it, we dont talk the talk and run like a girl when the walk is asked of us, and in that singular essence is the difference between pseudo merc corps like BE, and the real ones like OO MC KIA BP etc I pick 6 of my PvP Vet guys, send them to some space with stabs and free local chatter, and I could emulate BE in about 5 mins.... building something like MC is a lifetimes work. I dont respect them, because they are first to crow, but last to stand.. I have no time for cowards, and I am sure I am not alone in this. When BE take on someone that has the ability counter them and fight back, then maybe they will get some respect, maybe.... KIA Piccys
Velsharoon Gallente Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.09.06 13:54:00 - [39] I agree, we discourage stab use unless solo and you have free slots...my cowardly example would be if I need to gank a t1 hauler you need 2 volleys of cruises, so the extra dmg mods dont help therefore stabs \o/. Havent used that in a year tho... Sure we dont like stabs but I think its wrong (for everyone) to rage on and on about a totally valid game mechanic...if they were loggers or whatever then I wouldnt give them any respect, but they do what they do well
Anaka Totoch Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.06 14:29:00 - [40] Mercs have always had the upper hand in the fact that they have no home as such and so any damage that is inflicted upon them is inflicted in their contracts back yard. Althought i think that MC have their own outpost iirc. I have always wondered how it is that a merc can be set back to neutral as i very much doubt taht would be thinkable in RL, "Sorry we just decimated your country, but it was ok coz i got paid for it, anyway the contract is finished now, hope we can still be friends" I know its a game but still, it doesnt tally. On the otherhand they help the defencless, ie industrial corps and also seem to have a certain amount of nobility about them. So taking the good with the bad seems to the only way to go. As for Shin Ra and his great "strategy and tactics" I find it hard to believe that no one has worked it out. Dictor pops bubble up cloaks. Hostile caught in bubble. stabbed bs warp in pop. Rinse and repeat. Im sure many people thought of it but at the same time thought, " that is the lamest and most boring tactic i can ever think of, who would even want to do that, i would rather watch paint dry". However it seems that some people, you , prefer to look at a killboard and numbers than actually play a game. Personally i feel sorry for the members of your corp as i have never seen them do anything other than that. I wonder how many people fall asleep on your pvp ops. I look forward to the wcs nerf... and heaven forbid you might actually have to use tactics and pvp after. Although im sure you will come up with another borderline tactic. The poster above was right, with the tactics you use you will always be a nuisance and never a threat, though i guess you are happy with that? On the subject of mercs they will always be there as long as they are need and i think they will always be need. Just some thoughts Anaka Totoch CEO of The Dark Knights of Deneb PS Shin ra it is not chinese whispers i have personally come under attack from BE on two seperate occasions, but i survived both so they wont be on your killboard

Tito Taneki German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.06 14:53:00 - [41] From an out-of-game view: Mercs are another important human factor in EVE politics and warfare and another profession to chose. So they enhance EVE's 'content' and make it better. I mean many of us play to be confronted with new situations in this EVE universe and not to do and experience the same things again and again (except some grinders maybe^^) Diversity makes eve interesting and exciting. --------- Plutoinum
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.09.06 14:59:00 - [42] Originally by: KIAEddZ Edited by: KIAEddZ on 06/09/2006 13:36:02 LoL Cage Ratlled a little Shinny? As I said b4, your a nothing entity, a 1 trick pony, kills a bit loses very little, if we all employed your methods, and were willing to debase ourselves to that level of course, then we'd all get the same results. Its about respect, and quite simply on the whole, you dont get any.... wander why that is. You cant do anything with your little corp other than go to an area and make a nuisance of yourselves, so many contracts are far more than that, but of course you wouldnt have the first clue about that, unless its smack and stabs, irrelevant of your claims otherwise, you don't even get a look in. Why don't you list the services your corp offers.... we are all listening. There is one other person who posts on these forums that I've never seen get worked up about anything (DB Preacher). 95% of communication is through body language and tone. I assure you, all thats being rattled here is your ego. Seriously, your forum whoring is stooping to ASCN levels here. If 5 of your pilots can do the same as we do, proove it. OK, lets talk about respect. Respect comes in two forms. Firstly, how you percieve it: It is what happens when you fight an enemy who ranges from slightly better than you to inferior to you. You get some good fights, win some and loose some. While giving your clients enemy a good fight may be your way of satisfying a contract, I can assure you its not ours. We play to be #1. The vast majority of people in EVE hate our guts. Its not because we are such terrible pvpers - they would just kill us and laugh at us if that were the case. Its because we go deep into their space with a gang of battleships, kick the crap about everyone in the area, move on and remind them of it later. People simply do not know what to do about us, resulting in 100 man fleets trying to camp us in. We are a major pain in the ass to everyone. Our respect come from people sitting in their pods wondering in awe how the hell their 50 man gang let them die to 4 ravens. Now, we can start whole threads about respect, but it matters not to us. To be respected is not one of our primary goals. They are: fun, kills, isk. You certainly don't sound like a fun kind of outfit, you certainly don't do very well in terms of kills. And judging by the fact that your members have to make their ISK from carebearing and not PVP, things aren't looking that great for you. Now, if so many people respect you so dearly, what does it matter, as if respect can be spent or gives enjoyment. Our corp accepts occasional contracts should they fit our needs in terms of enjoyment and fun. If our goals and our employers goals happen to be the same, sure we will take money from them. If not, then they can pay you fools to sit around camping Jita for t1 frigates all day. Other than that we do as we please, and so far nobody has been able to stop us...
jbob2000 Gallente The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.09.06 15:28:00 - [43] Actually Eddz, BE have swapped tactics a bit. T2 Torps, damps, a cloak, and 1 or 2 stabs with some damage mods seem to be their tactic now. And a dictor ofc. The only 0.0 system ive seen them around when I fought them was the entry system where they can get all the traffic, instead of going to the heart of our systems and hitting up mining ops, npcers, etc.
Anaka Totoch Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.06 15:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: KIAEddZ Edited by: KIAEddZ on 06/09/2006 13:36:02 If 5 of your pilots can do the same as we do, proove it. And risk people in the corp he has worked hard to create threatening to quit from boredom?? We play to be #1. The vast majority of people in EVE hate our guts. Did you ever wonder why??? Its because we go deep into their space with a gang of WCS stabbed battleships People simply do not know what to do about our stabs, resulting in 100 man fleets trying to camp us in. We are definitely not a major pain in the ass to everyone. Our disrespect come from people sitting in their pods knowing exactly how the lame the tactics we use resulted intheir 50 man gang let them die to 4 ravens. They are: fun, kills, isk. HMMM.. from the tactics i have witnessed i would say it is more like kills, isk....(Everything else in between)....,fun You certainly don't sound like a fun kind of outfit. This can be said for yourselves aswell. you certainly don't do very well in terms of kills . As he said before kills are not everything when it comes to a contract. Now, if so many people respect you so dearly, what does it matter, as if respect can be spent or gives enjoyment. Are you admitting to being a sell out, coz thats agood thing???? Other than that we do as we please, and so far nobody has been able to stop us... (post wcs nerf will you be able to say the same thing???).. I just modified what you said to more accurately portray what i have witnessed. I hope you dont mind. Kind Regards Anaka Totoch CEO of The Dark Knights of Deneb
GoGo Yubari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 15:54:00 - [45] The political implications of the possibility of seeking a resolution to any diplomatic/political crises by hiring mercenaries are more widespread than it might seem at first glance. In the realm of realpolitik, mercenaries are a welcome tool. This actually presents an interesting moral dilemma. A ready supply of mercenaries capable of projecting enough force to destabilize even the larger political players contributes quite heavily to a diplomatic climate where morals rarely dictate policy ahead of simple power politics. So, you could argue that mercenaries are not only a result of, but also contribute to the dominant political reality of the Eve cluster. They serve to keep us in this quasi-feudal stage of political development.
merc999 Caldari Turbulent Subversion	Posted - 2006.09.06 16:14:00 - [46] A lot of view points, and it shows that even within the profession there is disagreement as to wether the Mercenary is anything more than a hired pirate ! However the scariest thing about this thread so far is that I read Quote: The political implications of the possibility of seeking a resolution to any diplomatic/political crises by hiring mercenaries are more widespread than it might seem at first glance. In the realm of realpolitik, mercenaries are a welcome tool. and actually not only understood it, but also agree !!! MERC999 Public Relations Director TBSV Keeping Empire and Syndicate ship builders in business
Broska FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.06 16:22:00 - [47] There scum, but there my kind of scum. (I can't for the life of me remember where that quote is from). Mercs provide a dimension to eve that makes it worth playing. Demonstrates what can be accomplished by the player base with no in game tools to support it. The value of them? Huge. When i was flying with Kaos Empire, the MC had a contract on us and FE. Made our life hell logisticly and economicly.
Liu Kaskakka PAK	Posted - 2006.09.06 16:46:00 - [48] Originally by: GoGo Yubari The political implications of the possibility of seeking a resolution to any diplomatic/political crises by hiring mercenaries are more widespread than it might seem at first glance. In the realm of *realpolitik, mercenaries are a welcome tool. This actually presents an interesting moral dilemma. A ready supply of mercenaries capable of projecting enough force to destabilize* even the larger political players contributes quite heavily to a diplomatic climate where morals rarely dictate policy ahead of simple power politics. So, you could argue that mercenaries are not only a result of, but also contribute to the dominant political reality of the Eve cluster. They serve to keep us in this quasi-feudal stage of political development. GoGo, stop trying to impress the asian chick next to you with them fancy words!! King Liu is RIGHT!!
Cpt Pugwash Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.06 16:50:00 - [49] Edited by: Cpt Pugwash on 06/09/2006 16:50:56 For the most part mercs are pirating scum who are from time to time fortunate enough to get paqid for their lifestyle I aplaud CVA for their stance on Mercs, it is a shame more don't have the guts to follow suit. It is the willingness to forgive and forget so easily that allows corps/alliances to stab each other wantonly in the back then turn around the next day and ask for a nap. Once you break your word you should have to work very hard on mending your reputation. Eddz are you saying we are second best to BE but better because we do it our own special way? BE are forum whoring oathbreaking piriting scum, but they are better than you at PVP. WCS are part of the game and a damn useful module if used correctly, any CEO who bans his members from using them is an idiot. Movies: Make Mine a Bob Light
GoGo Yubari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 16:51:00 - [50] Originally by: Liu Kaskakka GoGo, stop trying to impress the asian chick next to you with them fancy words!! After that barrage, she is no longer next to me, but under me!

Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 17:04:00 - [51] Originally by: Anaka Totoch I have always wondered how it is that a merc can be set back to neutral as i very much doubt taht would be thinkable in RL, "Sorry we just decimated your country, but it was ok coz i got paid for it, anyway the contract is finished now, hope we can still be friends" I know its a game but still, it doesnt tally. The biggest difference between EVE and RL is that in EVE, for pod pilots, death is not permanent. (Unless you're some Amarrian fundamentalist RPing and trashing your char after getting podded, because Amarrian society frowns upon cloning). So in the end, all you really destroy are assets, no actual people get killed in conflict. Also, most respect in the EVE universe is built on the battlefield. How many alliances have been made between people that used to fight eachother? I can't really see how we can really compare RL morals with in-game morals if one of the fundaments of our society is different: - Death is not permanent. ------------------------------------------
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.09.06 17:06:00 - [52] Originally by: Cpt Pugwash BE are forum whoring oathbreaking piriting scum, but they are better than you at PVP. WCS are part of the game and a damn useful module if used correctly, any CEO who bans his members from using them is an idiot. The first time I heard of KIA was in a video where some guy (presumably Eddz) was saying: "If anyone talks while I'm calling targets, I'll pod you myself." Clearly, someone who has mastererd small gang tactics Oh an Pugwash, I shall remind you it was Rubra who shot at us first in Fountain...
Cpt Pugwash Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.06 17:17:00 - [53] Fighting alongside an old enemy is not the issue, trusting one who breaks his word, even if he hasn't broken his word yet is another. How anyone can trust an entity that repeatidly breaks it's word is beyond me. Speaking of which Shinra. Yes Rubra fired first but only after BE broke the nap by trying unsuccessfully to pirate a member of Afterlife and a Diplomatic solution was going nowere. When Rubra fired on BE you atleast had the knowledge the NAP was over. Movies: Make Mine a Bob Light
Koth Krakenworth Minmatar S.A.S	Posted - 2006.09.06 17:22:00 - [54] Originally by: KIAEddZ The population as a whole sees Stab Whoring and the resultant crowing with a pretty dim view I think... Dude, 90%+ of "the population" ARE stab *****s You should take a swing to any 0.0 out there and take a look yourself Signature: Complete Image
zincol S.A.S	Posted - 2006.09.06 17:29:00 - [55] I'd Hire Burn Eden to get the max out of my isk,and get the job done,Good K/D ratio. i'd Hire kia to throw ships at the enemy for a few weeks and laugh at it for entertainment as they seem to be really awsome at that,Bad K/D ratio.
Anaka Totoch Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.06 17:31:00 - [56] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Originally by: Anaka Totoch I have always wondered how it is that a merc can be set back to neutral as i very much doubt taht would be thinkable in RL, "Sorry we just decimated your country, but it was ok coz i got paid for it, anyway the contract is finished now, hope we can still be friends" I know its a game but still, it doesnt tally. The biggest difference between EVE and RL is that in EVE, for pod pilots, death is not permanent. (Unless you're some Amarrian fundamentalist RPing and trashing your char after getting podded, because Amarrian society frowns upon cloning). So in the end, all you really destroy are assets, no actual people get killed in conflict. Also, most respect in the EVE universe is built on the battlefield. How many alliances have been made between people that used to fight eachother? I can't really see how we can really compare RL morals with in-game morals if one of the fundaments of our society is different: - Death is not permanent. Although what you say is true, let me give you an example. Alliance A is not wealthy or large but they have a fair amount of strength. They work together for a few months and muster funds and logistics to erect an outpost. It has left the alliance a lil weak as a lot of work has gone into it. Alliance B of a similar size come along and decide they would like to inhabitat that area and outpost. A war ensues and the battles are fairly equal. Alliance B decides to up their chances by hiring a merc corp, alliance A would like to but does not have funds. The newly hired merc corp, just doing their job, tips the balance of war towards alliance B s side and they win control over the space and outpost. Now directly because of that merc corp, alliance A has lost their space and billions worth in assets, something they worked towards for months. Although no one has died, would it not be reasonable for alliance A never to set that merc corp to + unless they did something truly worthy of it??? Personally i would consider the mercs just as hostile to me as that alliance B, even though it was just a job, if the merc corp can see they are helpng B win then they have actively taken the choice to destroy A. Should they not be held accountable for their actions or "was it just a job".\ Perhaps it is subjective, and depends entirely on factors, such as how you were brought up, but that is how i personally feel. Their may be no right or wrong answer. I look forward to hearing your reply. Anaka Totoch CEO of The Dark Knights of Deneb
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.09.06 17:41:00 - [57] Edited by: Shin Ra on 06/09/2006 17:41:55 Originally by: Cpt Pugwash Fighting alongside an old enemy is not the issue, trusting one who breaks his word, even if he hasn't broken his word yet is another. How anyone can trust an entity that repeatidly breaks it's word is beyond me. Speaking of which Shinra. Yes Rubra fired first but only after BE broke the nap by trying unsuccessfully to pirate a member of Afterlife and a Diplomatic solution was going nowere. When Rubra fired on BE you atleast had the knowledge the NAP was over. Ok AFAIK, none of us were aware u were friends with anyone else in Fountain. We only had u guys on blue, nobody else. I wasn't aware of any diplomacy either, nor were any of aware (to my knowledge) that u were gonna start shooting us. Maybe we've finally gotten to the bottom of that now... Anyway, back to the topic
Witch Doctor Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 18:25:00 - [58] Edited by: Witch Doctor on 06/09/2006 18:33:52 Edited by: Witch Doctor on 06/09/2006 18:32:56 Originally by: Anaka Totoch Although what you say is true, let me give you an example. Alliance A is not wealthy or large but they have a fair amount of strength. They work together for a few months and muster funds and logistics to erect an outpost. It has left the alliance a lil weak as a lot of work has gone into it. Alliance B of a similar size come along and decide they would like to inhabitat that area and outpost. A war ensues and the battles are fairly equal. Alliance B decides to up their chances by hiring a merc corp, alliance A would like to but does not have funds. The newly hired merc corp, just doing their job, tips the balance of war towards alliance B s side and they win control over the space and outpost. Now directly because of that merc corp, alliance A has lost their space and billions worth in assets, something they worked towards for months. Although no one has died, would it not be reasonable for alliance A never to set that merc corp to + unless they did something truly worthy of it??? Personally i would consider the mercs just as hostile to me as that alliance B, even though it was just a job, if the merc corp can see they are helpng B win then they have actively taken the choice to destroy A. Should they not be held accountable for their actions or "was it just a job".\ Perhaps it is subjective, and depends entirely on factors, such as how you were brought up, but that is how i personally feel. Their may be no right or wrong answer. I look forward to hearing your reply. Anaka Totoch CEO of The Dark Knights of Deneb That's certainly your prerogative, but what do you stand to gain by setting the mercs negative? We don't care either way and will unthinkingly shoot you if you shoot us. The only impact is on your corp - the threat of a client's target setting us negative on an ongoing basis doesn't affect our decision to take contracts in the slightest and really just gives our starving dogs something to do between contracts. As for the example, I would question why Alliance A made such a risky bet as to pour all their money into a conquerable asset without reserving some capital as contingency. Maybe if you're in a rush to claim the system, but perhaps a more savvy leader, like the leader in Alliance B, would set aside the money to make sure they can protect the asset. Alliance A invested in building the asset - Alliance B invested in taking it. As Seleene has often said, it is a wise idea to at least factor in the possibility of a merc presence on either side when considering war scenarios. That will leave you a lot more prepared for when they show up and position you to use them as the tools that they are.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.09.06 18:32:00 - [59] Originally by: KIAEddZ The population as a whole sees Stab Whoring and the resultant crowing with a pretty dim view I think... (if BE believe that saying it doesnt make it so, then they are more deluded than I thought, ask the members of my corp that have had the mispleasure of having to deal with them) KIA dont get the kill death ratio BE do, but we bring it, we dont talk the talk and run like a girl when the walk is asked of us, and in that singular essence is the difference between pseudo merc corps like BE, and the real ones like OO MC KIA BP etc I pick 6 of my PvP Vet guys, send them to some space with stabs and free local chatter, and I could emulate BE in about 5 mins.... building something like MC is a lifetimes work. I dont respect them, because they are first to crow, but last to stand.. I have no time for cowards, and I am sure I am not alone in this. When BE take on someone that has the ability counter them and fight back, then maybe they will get some respect, maybe.... I respected KIA when they were mercs then they joined an alliance ...then ...oh well s** hitted the fan . And speak for yourself when you say that BE dont deserve respect,they deserve has much or more respect has you do.
Trooper B99 Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.06 18:58:00 - [60] Edited by: Trooper B99 on 06/09/2006 19:00:09 As has been noted, it goes both ways for attacked entities to set mercs negative after a contract. They gain another set of targets to shoot which can be good and bad. chuckle It also generally precludes the entity from hiring that corp if they should feel the need to. Its up to that individual group to decide on how they act post contract for their needs and aims and also to the merc corp how they act in response as tide and opinions in this game can change over time. Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106

Rodge Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.06 19:03:00 - [61] Personally, I found the mercing life to be a bit boring after a while. Got a lot of respect for guys like the MC who've stuck to it way before anyone even thought about it as a viable career. Funny thing about mercing. If a merc corp is hired against you and does a lot of damage, who would you think of hiring when you needed a bit of extra firepower? As for the stab issue, I don't know a single merc corp who hasn't made use of them in pvp. Some do it more than others, of course The results of any mercenary's contract isn't always defined by their kill ratio (though that can certainly be part of it). If you're hired to take on an alliance and that alliance don't get to do a single complex, get a single mining op done etc... then you can be a success without killing a single ship. If, on the other hand, all you do is kill the odd npcer or agent runner then you haven't really accomplished all that much. If the merc corp engages formations of the contract mark's PvPers, then it can be said that the target of the contract is getting just as much out of it as anyone. This is where BE's style will stand them in good stead. They'll sit with cloaked interdictors as long as it takes to get a kill. They'll shut down systems as opponents bring 5:1 in numbers to try to catch them. So what if they're not having any fun? The alliance they're targetting has 5+ times as many people who aren't having fun and are wasting time trying to chase a few people away. Doing the boring things against an alliance will hurt it much more than providing it willing targets for a 30v30 fleet battle in their home systems (which most alliances of note would kill to get on a regular basis!). Personally, I'd consider hiring BE if I needed someone to be "griefed"! (if i could afford it....) I recall watching the MCvEverlasting Vendetta videos. MC camped EV into their home station for days. Boring for both sides - yes. But it was EV that was the one that lost income (from not being able to do anything) and lost members (people who can't do anything get bored.....). Contract - successful! Still, mercing is certainly a viable career in eve. You make a lot of enemies along the way, but it's certainly possible to make a hell of a lot of isk along the way Sig inappropriate-not eve related -Abdalion [ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
Hakera	Posted - 2006.09.06 19:08:00 - [62] militas have been used since 'almost' the dawn of time to supplement the regulars. Much in the same way its easier to employ someone to deal with a short term problem. In an eve sense, they are indeed valuable scum who can sometimes do more damage than an entity can sustain and recover from and help tip the balance pushing the target into the abyss. as tyraxx says, what else is there to spend isk on :)
Kyguard Our Brothers Five 3rd Front Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.06 20:25:00 - [63] Mercs are probably best used when a corporation / alliance is under a lot of pressure and you just need that extra push to make them collapse. I would say that mercs (including the MC) alone can't ***** most serious alliances and corps without other factors thrown into the mix. but yeh, mercs ftw if you've got the isk === God is on the side with the best artillery.
TressX Trinity Nova	Posted - 2006.09.07 02:00:00 - [64] I consider myself to be a very valuable resource thank you! Love Tressx May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.07 03:15:00 - [65] Mercenary as a profession has existed since ages first to be used by the pharos in their battels and up till today modern warfare mercenaries are still used . They are considered a valuable asset also a liability sicne they fight for the highest bidder so after theri contract is over they can be contracted aginst their first employer. Mercenaries hold no loyalty except to their contract and leadership , their use is usualy to do selected tasks and rarely enage in major warfare sicne they are extremly costly than usual soldiers. Calling mercs scum or what ever is not quite true coz there is a difference between mercs and assasin , imo assasins are on the lower of the honorable combat lvl sicne they do not directly engage they just do stealth hits and run away but at the end they all do their job and get paid and then leave with no cause what so ever except the material gain wether tis currency or assets or commodities. "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
Max Teranous Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.07 07:04:00 - [66] Who'd wanna be a Merc, eh? Max -------------------- Too noob for an MC sig
Anaka Totoch Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.07 07:22:00 - [67] Originally by: Witch Doctor Edited by: Witch Doctor on 06/09/2006 18:33:52 Edited by: Witch Doctor on 06/09/2006 18:32:56 That's certainly your prerogative, but what do you stand to gain by setting the mercs negative? We don't care either way and will unthinkingly shoot you if you shoot us. The only impact is on your corp - the threat of a client's target setting us negative on an ongoing basis doesn't affect our decision to take contracts in the slightest and really just gives our starving dogs something to do between contracts. As for the in Alliance B, would set aside the money to make sexample, I would question why Alliance A made such a risky bet as to pour all their money into a conquerable asset without reserving some capital as contingency. Maybe if you're in a rush to claim the system, but perhaps a more savvy leader, like the leader ure they can protect the asset. Alliance A invested in building the asset - Alliance B invested in taking it. As Seleene has often said, it is a wise idea to at least factor in the possibility of a merc presence on either side when considering war scenarios. That will leave you a lot more prepared for when they show up and position you to use them as the tools that they are. Do mercs find it really that easy to live with the fact that they are the ones who may destroy one parties home. As you said it is my perogative, however i would consider it a small price to pay, in order to exact our revenge. After all we have just lost everything, what more could we loose Personally i tried pirating once a long time ago and after having blown up his, i ended up feeling so guilty that i convoed him gave his stuff back and reimbursed him I guess some people have it in them, but at the end of the day it comes down to individuals and everyone is different. For my self being a merc would raise issues of morality and loyalty. Anaka Totoch CEO of The Dark Knights of Deneb
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.07 07:43:00 - [68] Originally by: Anaka Totoch Do mercs find it really that easy to live with the fact that they are the ones who may destroy one parties home. Yep. Quote: I guess some people have it in them, but at the end of the day it comes down to individuals and everyone is different. For my self being a merc would raise issues of morality and loyalty. We are loyal to our clients. They say who to kill and we do so. Your alliance has a -10 list that I'm sure you don't hesitate to fire upon, yes? It's the same with us, only our -10 list changes a lot. - Remember Shaelin
Tarri FACTA NON VERBA	Posted - 2006.09.07 08:44:00 - [69] Having loyality to your client is no real loyality as it is just the fact that you get isk from your client that makes you behave this way. So it is only loyality towards your own personal greed. Imo, the main difference between pirates and mercs is that pirates are honest about what they do while mercs pretend to be something more then simple killers. In EVE mercs are badly needed as they enrich the game, it is even an all player driven profession so probs to MC and a select few other doing it so classy. In RL, mercs are scum. ----
Lamb Chop KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.09.07 11:45:00 - [70] Originally by: Tarri Having loyality to your client is no real loyality as it is just the fact that you get isk from your client that makes you behave this way. That is the whole point of Mercenary work...

Scius Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.09.07 12:21:00 - [71] Edited by: Scius on 07/09/2006 12:22:18 Merc's bring firepower to those that need it & cant supply enough of their own, if organised properly they are a ruthless but disciplined group who can change the face of battle, so i say they are a very good thing. At FOFF we try to emulate those mercs we hold in high regard, including those who had contracts on us, we learned alot & are still learning but at no point will we be empire pirates. Boredom is a major problem as everyone has said we try to fill this with killing everyone below -5 sec stat & any -10 corp standings we find. The key to being a good merc corp is recommendations (even from those you shoot), stick to the contract, show respect to the rest of local & above all show your contractees no mercy with no smack. Its not an easy profession but very rewarding, with none of the 0.0 alliance hassles.
Mitchman Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.09.07 13:00:00 - [72] Originally by: Rodge Got a lot of respect for guys like the MC who've stuck to it way before anyone even thought about it as a viable career. It seems to be a common misconception that MC was first. Cult of Cthulhu (RIP) was hired approximately the 2nd week of the game, and fought in Fountain and Venal for their employers.
Kaleeb Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.09.07 13:09:00 - [73] Yep and people also forget mercenary frigates/cruisers and mercenary forces who have been around a long time Originally by: Blacklight Last night was an 'anomoly' for different reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with skill or who were the better pvpers.
Crovan Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.07 13:53:00 - [74] Originally by: Mitchman Originally by: Rodge Got a lot of respect for guys like the MC who've stuck to it way before anyone even thought about it as a viable career. It seems to be a common misconception that MC was first. Cult of Cthulhu (RIP) was hired approximately the 2nd week of the game, and fought in Fountain and Venal for their employers. seems to recall seeing CoC's farewell video, recently Point taken, though. As for the state of mercs in EvE, I think the fact that we are a unique breed has been thoroughly explained. As for the comments about mercenaries having nothing to motivate them but their own greed, I would argue that the same is true for a lot of non-mercenary corps/alliances as well. The difference with mercs is that we define ourselves by loyalty to each other, our client, and nobody else. Other groups are loyal to one another when it suits the immediate political needs of both parties. With honest mercs, as long as the checks are not bouncing, the guns will keep shooting. Setting mercs who have just finished a contract on you to negative is silly, but understandable. Why close the door to a group with the potential to help you out in the future? Sure there are lots of emotions about those griefing ****heads that just bbqed your POSes, but what you must understand is that they (if they are "real" mercs) did not do it for personal reasons. Someone paid them to shoot you, so they did. What does setting a merc corp to -10 get you but more trouble? Take the MC for example. Someone sets us to -10 because we went pewpewpew and starts shooting our people in lowsec/0.0. Now, they get hit with a -10 from us, and it's freaking open season while we're off contract. I will almost guarantee that the occasional cheap gank that you might manage is not going to be worth the fury that we can bring down on you, should we so choose between contracts. After all, we have to make sure that we can move around unmolested in preparation for the next contract. Frankly, those who want to put mercs on the same level as pirates are, imho, either jealous or bitter. Jealous because they cannot do what mercs do, or bitter because they got their toys broken by some icky merc group. Farjung FanBois, Charter Member
Crovan Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.07 13:57:00 - [75] Originally by: Kyguard Mercs are probably best used when a corporation / alliance is under a lot of pressure and you just need that extra push to make them collapse. I would say that mercs (including the MC) alone can't ***** most serious alliances and corps without other factors thrown into the mix. but yeh, mercs ftw if you've got the isk I think we would like someone to try to test that theory :) I am not so sure that it can't be done, but rather people have not asked us to. Sure, it'd take a long time to really dismantle an alliance, but I think it could be done. As a matter of fact, I think the "serious" groups are the only ones this could be done to, as they are the only ones with 0.0 assets. Empire alliances/corps can always dock up and not log on for awhile. Contractor sees no kills on KB and stops writing checks, then empire group goes on their merry way. Farjung FanBois, Charter Member
Krisala Torin	Posted - 2006.09.07 13:57:00 - [76] Edited by: Krisala Torin on 07/09/2006 13:57:15 Ok, so the default character button doesn't work....good to know.
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.07 14:09:00 - [77] Mercs imo are a necessary evil in the real world & in eve. They provide the muscle that many small/non PvP corps require, & can also tip the balance in long wars one way or another. Sure when your on the recieving end of ones fury it can tilt you perspective into hating their guts, & vice versa those whose lives are made easier by them see them as the greatest thing around. Unfourtnately, EVE being a game (i can say that here cant i? ) means that many who pursue the mercenary life it seems quickly find themselves becoming bored. Contracts may make isk, but from the sounds of it they often involve fighting targets that are less then willing to always engage them. Given that it seems war decs are the most common contact method mercs use, its understandable why this maybe as their targets know theyre coming for them & so are extra vigilent. Consequently, many who arnt willing to rat/mine etc seem to find themselves filling the time ganking bystanders in lowsec systems as theyre easy targets & you need something to do. Theres more to say but my fingers are getting stiff from all the forum whoring so ill stop there. _______________________________________________ The above comments & views do not reflect the opinions of Cosmic Odyssey or Chorus of Dawn; just those of an enlightened member
Eyeshadow Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.07 14:20:00 - [78] Originally by: Tarri Having loyality to your client is no real loyality as it is just the fact that you get isk from your client that makes you behave this way. So it is only loyality towards your own personal greed. If you think any corp has ever got rich of mercing alone you are sorely mistaken. The profession pays a pittance when you take into account the number of people. And loyalty to our client is loyalty, just about the only loyalty a merc should have Quote: Imo, the main difference between pirates and mercs is that pirates are honest about what they do while mercs pretend to be something more then simple killers. Actually your completely wrong. Pirates are the simple killers, they do nothing but kill/ransom people. Professional mercs on the other hand go in with a job to do and set objectives. Quote: In EVE mercs are badly needed as they enrich the game, it is even an all player driven profession so probs to MC and a select few other doing it so classy. In RL, mercs are scum. If we acted like scum we wouldnt be where we are today My Latest Vid (18/04/06)
Serenity Steele Rearden Steele	Posted - 2006.09.07 14:30:00 - [79] IMHO A useful service, and honourable. That said, there are far fewer corps/alliances within EvE that are true mercinaries, than those that claim to be. Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
Tarri FACTA NON VERBA	Posted - 2006.09.07 15:51:00 - [80] Originally by: Eyeshadow If we acted like scum we wouldnt be where we are today I did not say you acted like scum, I said you act with class. The loyality to your client is a questionable loyality as it is a loyality bought with isk. My opinion still stands, pirates are in my opinion more honourable then mercs because they normally have a code of honour which they respect. And that code/loyality to the code is not bought with isk. But then again that is only my opinion, I allow you to have your own ----

Talthrus Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.07 18:43:00 - [81] It doesn't mean that we done have a code of honor just because we are hired for ISK. Most of the mercs I have met ingame are very upstanding and just in general great people. I can't see how you think senseless ganking is equal to any sort of honor among pirates ... ----------------------
Crovan Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.07 18:44:00 - [82] Originally by: Tarri Originally by: Eyeshadow If we acted like scum we wouldnt be where we are today I did not say you acted like scum, I said you act with class. The loyality to your client is a questionable loyality as it is a loyality bought with isk. My opinion still stands, pirates are in my opinion more honourable then mercs because they normally have a code of honour which they respect. And that code/loyality to the code is not bought with isk. But then again that is only my opinion, I allow you to have your own Farjung FanBois, Charter Member
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.07 18:44:00 - [83] Originally by: Tarri My opinion still stands, pirates are in my opinion more honourable then mercs because they normally have a code of honour which they respect. And that code/loyality to the code is not bought with isk. So ehm... What does one buy by paying the "ransom"? ------------------------------------------
Krisala Torin	Posted - 2006.09.07 18:45:00 - [84] Edited by: Krisala Torin on 07/09/2006 18:45:09 Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Originally by: Tarri My opinion still stands, pirates are in my opinion more honourable then mercs because they normally have a code of honour which they respect. And that code/loyality to the code is not bought with isk. So ehm... What does one buy by paying the "ransom"? That does it, I am deleting this alt.
Tarri FACTA NON VERBA	Posted - 2006.09.07 19:06:00 - [85] What¦s borked with forums, Crovan? I was comparing the ideal pirate to the ideal merc, and came to my conclusion. You came to yours, what¦s wrong with that? ----
Crovan Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.07 19:19:00 - [86] Originally by: Tarri What¦s borked with forums, Crovan? I was comparing the ideal pirate to the ideal merc, and came to my conclusion. You came to yours, what¦s wrong with that? Silly stuff is wrong like it not wanting to accept my default character, as well as not posting, then double posting with the wrong character, instead, etc. What is wrong with comparing ideals? In this situation, plenty is. First, you should have stated that to begin with if you expect the rest of us to follow along :). Second, debating ideals, any potential difficulties with either side can be written off. The ideal merc will never deviate from his bought loyalty, so what does it matter if it is bought? The ideal pirate will Robin Hood his way through the galaxy saving damsels between the ransoming of robber-barons (and I don't mean missions ;)) Nothing is wrong to coming to opinions. I just think that your opinion is incorrect, and have provided reasons why it is contradictory. Does the ideal pirate not ransom? How does he make his money? If he does ransom, then his temporarily purchased loyalty is as faulty as you say a merc's is, thus either purchased loyalty is good for something, or pirates are no more honorable then mercs. Either of those refutes your claim. Farjung FanBois, Charter Member
Tarri FACTA NON VERBA	Posted - 2006.09.07 19:38:00 - [87] Yep, forums are strange at times. Like having to log in like 3 times before posting... You are right, comparing ideals is kind of senseless. Also is the ideal merc and pirate different for everyone. A pirate can be be a gentleman like Francis Drake or a simple criminal. A merc can help those without arms defend themself against oppressors or be the tool of the rich to subdue the weak and poor. So in the end it also depends on what contract a merc corporation accepts and what not, and how professional they work, if you want to tell if they are "knights in shiny armors", "businessmen" or simply "gankers". ----
Draximus Cane Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.08 01:40:00 - [88] Originally by: Kaleeb Yep and people also forget mercenary frigates/cruisers and mercenary forces who have been around a long time We were not the first Mercs (although I was in Merc frigs from the fiorst week), but I believe we were the first "true" mercs as others before were genenerly not nuetrul and or pirated -------------------------------------------------
Firane Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.08 01:46:00 - [89] Personally I don't think you can compare BE with MC. -----------
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.08 03:18:00 - [90] Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 08/09/2006 03:19:30 "True Mercs" ? What a joke. Merceneries who kill random people when not on assignment are no less Merceneries than you who do not. As long as they honor their contracts and wishes of their Employers, they're no different. I wonder how many mercenery corporations out there make up fake contracts when they want to have an excuse to go after someone they haven't been hired to kill ? I'd guess 95%, including the MC, the ones that pirate would actually be less likely to lie about something like that, and thus more "True Mercs" in my book than the ones that don't pirate. http://eve.klaki.net/

Rodge Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.08 07:58:00 - [91] Originally by: Mitchman Originally by: Rodge Got a lot of respect for guys like the MC who've stuck to it way before anyone even thought about it as a viable career. It seems to be a common misconception that MC was first. Cult of Cthulhu (RIP) was hired approximately the 2nd week of the game, and fought in Fountain and Venal for their employers. I've always known about CoC. When KIA went merc, we held CoC as the benchmark of conduct. But I thought you had left the mercing profession (/emote also recalls your last video) so didn't include you in what I said. Originally by: Kaleeb Yep and people also forget mercenary frigates/cruisers and mercenary forces who have been around a long time MF left a contract because they were bored and wanted to shoot more neutrels(Celestial Horizon vs VOTF, as I recall). I wouldn't consider them real mercs anymore. Sig inappropriate-not eve related -Abdalion [ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
Stamm Amarr Three Holdings Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.09.08 08:20:00 - [92] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 08/09/2006 03:19:30 "True Mercs" ? What a joke. Merceneries who kill random people when not on assignment are no less Merceneries than you who do not. As long as they honor their contracts and wishes of their Employers, they're no different. I wonder how many mercenery corporations out there make up fake contracts when they want to have an excuse to go after someone they haven't been hired to kill ? I'd guess 95%, including the MC, the ones that pirate would actually be less likely to lie about something like that, and thus more "True Mercs" in my book than the ones that don't pirate. It's impossible to tell though, only the mercs themselves know. Maybe when the CEOs retire from Eve they'll write their memoirs and drop a bombshell :P
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.08 08:37:00 - [93] Edited by: Seleene on 08/09/2006 08:38:14 Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I wonder how many mercenery corporations out there make up fake contracts when they want to have an excuse to go after someone they haven't been hired to kill ? I'd guess 95%, including the MC, the ones that pirate would actually be less likely to lie about something like that, and thus more "True Mercs" in my book than the ones that don't pirate. It's impossible to tell though, only the mercs themselves know. Maybe when the CEOs retire from Eve they'll write their memoirs and drop a bombshell :P Hmmmm..... "Warden of the Asylum." by Seleene "My Love of all things Green." by Neurotic Cat "Good bye Politics, Hello Pimp Cane!" by Hans Roaming "Who wants my job?" by Dol Amroth "Who's #1, Mother****?!" by Eyeshadow "How I found God in the form of ISK." by Hardin "Killing is easy... with a nice glass of wine." by Lowa "Tales of a cross-dressing Merenary." by Parmizan "Don't fear the Reaper... Fear me!" by Farjung "The Life of a Media ***." by Leafo "Dude, where's my Thorax?!" by Danks Hell, I'd buy them all tbh. - Remember Shaelin
GoGo Yubari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.08 08:40:00 - [94] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I'd guess 95%, including the MC Though I can't dispute your statistic (even if 85% of all statistics are made up on the spot), you would be wrong. Not that I think there is anything wrong with an essentially pirate force being hired as mercenaries. Yet, there is also something to be said for having a code of conduct that distinguishes you from the others. On the utilitarian level, it allows you to keep a larger list of potential clients. On another level, it speaks of dedication and discipline. Certainly it won't matter to some, but it will to others.
Trooper B99 Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.08 08:40:00 - [95] Edited by: Trooper B99 on 08/09/2006 08:40:09 /me stalks Sel Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk "True Mercs" ? What a joke. Merceneries who kill random people when not on assignment are no less Merceneries than you who do not. As long as they honor their contracts and wishes of their Employers, they're no different. Yes and no. One reason i tend to pidgeonhole merc groups myself is that I see certain ones more likely to be able to carry out contracts and be able to honour the wishes of their employer. If a merc is told to go kill X but end up taking their paid time killing Y, Z, Q, P, N, R and B as well as X are they doing the right thing by their employer? Likewise, what if they start ransoming ships instead of destroying them? Sure they're hurting them in pure iskwise terms, but what if they ransom a 200mil isk ship for 50mil isk, is that the right thing to do by their employer? Does the employer mind? Should the Mercenary do that? It changes. Of course my personal pidgeonholed mercs have alot of crossover and its not to say they won't honour a contract, but one merc is not another in the eyes of the client, target and the eyes of the general populace of EVE. Quote: I wonder how many mercenery corporations out there make up fake contracts when they want to have an excuse to go after someone they haven't been hired to kill ? I don't know tbh, but there are alot out there and sometimes their "we were hired by X person" doesn't stand up well under some casual investigation. Some newer merc corps might want to "make a splash" with a big contract. Some pirate group might want teh booty and try to get away with it under a veneer of "business". As for the MC. . . nope, all of our contracts have been real and instigated by clientel whom have contacted us. Hell, I've had to deal with enough of them on a personal thank you very much. ^^ Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.08 10:10:00 - [96] Originally by: Crovan Setting mercs who have just finished a contract on you to negative is silly, but understandable. Why close the door to a group with the potential to help you out in the future? This only works if they plan on using Merc Corps in the future. It also assumes that there is a limited supply of mercs - which to be honest there isn't (albeit the quality is variable). It shouldn't be that difficult to find an alternative crew which isn't on the KOS list. The main reason that more people dont make merc corps KOS after being attacked by them is because they are afraid of the consequences - which is to some extent due to the impression of invincibility that many merc corps have built around themselves and the fact that many merc targets are fat with industrialists who want the wars over asap so they can get back to hauling or whatever its is they do. For PvP oriented corps/alliances keeping old enemies (including mercs) on KOS isn't necessarily an irrational thing. Indeed it is very rational ------------------------------
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.09.08 12:01:00 - [97] Edited by: welsh wizard on 08/09/2006 12:01:35 We do it for free. edit: Well at least we used to.
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C	Posted - 2006.09.08 15:53:00 - [98] Small, professional mercenary corporations are indeed a rare breed. The downtimes between contracts usually suck out all but the most committed members to piracy or other alliance corporations. Being a true "merc" in Eve is a very hard life if you are committed to the path, and do not pirate in your off time. I agree that most "mercs" are simply pirates looking for more respectability. This is a great playstyle and I have no issues at all with it, but I really wish they would use the term "Brigands" or "Privateers"...something along those lines. Small merc corps can do a healthy business in Empire space! There are a lot of ransoming war dec pirates out there...but they almost always run from a straight up fight (sad but true). I am honestly glad that the MC prices are so high...it makes a good market for us smaller merc corps. Merc Blog
Agent Kenshin Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.08 16:54:00 - [99] Originally by: Karash Amerius I am honestly glad that the MC prices are so high...it makes a good market for us smaller merc corps. I love this quote. ----- Station Invunerablity POS Module
Lowa Gallente North Star Networks Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.08 18:42:00 - [100] Originally by: Karash Amerius I am honestly glad that the MC prices are so high... Quality costs. /Lowa NSN - Forcing EVE reviewers to mine since 2003!

Fikia Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.09.09 19:00:00 - [101] Mercenary corporations - Can you not just define them as being corporations that take on contracts to do X? Where X could be kill Y ships, Z pods, just stop the industry side of a target or even have a corp implode? Due to how EvE is, the only way to have a "true merc corp" is if the members enjoy pvp AND enjoy doing one of the following: Mining, Missions, Trading, other form of random non-pvp isk making. People get bored between contracts. People leave between contracts. If people are bored, they'll turn to other things between contracts.. hence you get some merc corps seem like pirates since they go out and pvp. Although, I don't think we have that problem. Since most don't like us anyway, our target for "random" pvp is somewhat big. But enough of that talk. Lets get down to the question of Scum or Valuable resource... Those two words are subjective. Who is to say that the Guiding Hand is scum? Is it just because we accept ANY type of contract, including the "real" destruction of corps, and fulfill said contracts? Then again, you may see us as scum since there's no one else to blame unless we give up our clients - but you know that's not going to happen. A contract is a contract. Mercenary corps are a resource for other corporations. They provide numbers to your fleets. They provide annoyances/hinderances for your enemies. So what is the Guiding Hand Social Club? We are a mercenary corporation. We accept any contract no matter the demands and fine print in the contract. Downfall is, we are slightly more expensive than other mercenary corporations due to our willingness to fulfill any demands. Are we scum? Only if you want to see us that way. We are honorable pod pilots that uphold to our contracts to our best ability. We get our job done without complaints.
Mitchman Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.09.22 14:21:00 - [102] Originally by: Draximus Cane We were not the first Mercs (although I was in Merc frigs from the fiorst week), but I believe we were the first "true" mercs as others before were genenerly not nuetrul and or pirated "true" mercs? What is that? CoC, my former corp and which members constitute much of the core of Omniscient Order, were on a longterm hire (paid hire) from the 2nd week of retail, fighting in Fountain, Venal and elsewhere for 2 (at that time) relatively powerful corporations. Seeing how long it's been since then, it's no big secret anymore.
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.22 15:52:00 - [103] Jokers, nuff said. Pirates and mercs since release. Ship lovers click here
Idaeus Gallente Earned In Blood	Posted - 2006.09.22 16:10:00 - [104] I like mercenary work, and mercenaries in general. I've done the merc things in other games, but in EVE I'm not sure I could pull it off. Mainly it has to do with logistics. I understand the need of a logistic backend, and can plan it out well, but I lack the patience the deal with process. But mercs are a resource. They have been a resource since the Egyptians, and possibly before them. +IOI?
Pepperami Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.22 16:12:00 - [105] There is absolutely no problem whatsoever about being paid to war dec and put pressure on a group of people. In that respect mercs are valuable to eve. I think there is a problem with the "culture" of merc's quality being decided by a ratio which actually shows nothing, and the whole community would do better by saying "so what did you actually achieve?" It is amusing that eddz and shin clash heads in this thread when they are very very similer in both their publicity and tactics - tell everyone you're uber, try to remove loses and gank where you can. Entities like MC and the old CONIN(current conin and revelations inc included? I don't know what's happening there..) are much more threatening - they will bring fleets and they will whipe out fleets rather than just settling for the odd battleship gank. They're more threatening, but they're also more fun and more effective (altho the whole nature of merc'ing means almost all "merc" entities tend to shy away from conflicts where victory isn't certain, but that's an eve problem in general)
Khavi Vetali Gallente Team Americas Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.22 16:15:00 - [106] Edited by: Khavi Vetali on 22/09/2006 16:15:39 Originally by: KIAEddZ KIA dont get the kill death ratio BE do, but we bring it, we dont talk the talk and run like a girl when the walk is asked of us, and in that singular essence is the difference between pseudo merc corps like BE, and the real ones like OO MC KIA BP etc Not trying to smack, but this made me giggle. A lot.
Hibi Researcher2	Posted - 2006.09.22 16:18:00 - [107] Edited by: Hibi Researcher2 on 22/09/2006 16:19:44 mercs that do as they are told define what it is to be a good mercenary. its the ones that.... get creative with their orders that shame the reputation
Neue Regel Minmatar Deadly Metal Incorporation	Posted - 2006.09.22 19:29:00 - [108] Originally by: Cheechako It's just business So is kidnapping children for ransom. Neither of which are admirable Are you not entertained!
Ulric Denrai Amarr Fith Aaf Fighter Squad	Posted - 2006.09.23 00:55:00 - [109] Think we don`t need big lines ,,mercs are scum.
EElak Amarr The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.25 08:50:00 - [110] There are no way to verify if a contract is authentic, you will never know if they are there just for fun or have an authentic contract if the client choose to be anonymous. In my experience internal or fake-contract is a reality and a good way to keep tens or hundreds of PVP hungry pilots at bay when there are no interesting offers. I don't think Tyrrax guess of 95% including the MC have done a "fake"-contract are that far off the truth. If there were anything like good and evil in EVE and not this big grey area we have now, I would put mercenaries at evil together with pirates. But just slightly above them because they can be a valuable asset. /EElak

Mi Lai Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:47:00 - [111] I really wonder how any 'true merc' (ie. one that doesnt pirate on the sideline) deals with the boredom. Ever since I started pirating, I really like the hunt, and nearly warped my hauler alt to a belt once when I saw a potential customer. On another note: what's the deal about people mentioning the kill-death ratio's so much? Should I ever be a client, I wouldnt give a toss about K/D ratios, as long as they get the job done. As soon as my ISKies go from my wallet, it's the Merc's business to deal with the overhead . On another note, could a merc give a sample rate for a contract? Seeing what equipment some mercs fly around, I really wonder wether the typical contract fee covers the costs of achieving your contract goals. In other words: can you make a living out of your contracts only, or due you have to moonlight as a NPC'er / Miner / T2 BPO holder or whatever?
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:00:00 - [112] Edited by: KIAEddZ on 25/09/2006 12:01:26 Merc corps CANNOT make a living by contract payments alone. (maybe small mickey mouse ones can, but nayone with a decent membership is included in this statement) The contracts are merely a role for the corp to fulfill together. Many of the goals recently achived by the largest entities in the game, would not have been possible without Mercenaries and what we (the true mercs) bring to the table. Just as an example, I virtually always have mor ein my personal wallet than the corp has in its. As do most of KIA directorship, and NO money is skimmed off the top from corp earnt isk, we all have our own ways of supporting our life style, the corp re invests its isk in our cap ship program. KIA EVE Home
ScoRpS 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:03:00 - [113] I quite like "true mercs" they add an interesting facet to eve and a good merc group are worth their weight in gold. They most definatley are a valuable asset to eve as a tool to even the odds for ppl with more isk then milliatry might or expertise at their disposal. It is very hard to be a good merc group as it takes alot of planning and patience and not all merc groups are up to this level of organisation but for the ones that are, you have my respect.
Garia666 Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:22:00 - [114] Originally by: Altai Saker What's better than being a contract killer? Not much. Also I'd like to point at that eve is the only mmo that this profession exists and is prosperous... So awesome. well getting paid for PvP isnt such a bad thing. When you like to pvp this is enjoying..
Larsson7 Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:27:00 - [115] Originally by: Mi Lai I really wonder how any 'true merc' (ie. one that doesnt pirate on the sideline) deals with the boredom. Ever since I started pirating, I really like the hunt, and nearly warped my hauler alt to a belt once when I saw a potential customer. On another note: what's the deal about people mentioning the kill-death ratio's so much? Should I ever be a client, I wouldnt give a toss about K/D ratios, as long as they get the job done. As soon as my ISKies go from my wallet, it's the Merc's business to deal with the overhead . On another note, could a merc give a sample rate for a contract? Seeing what equipment some mercs fly around, I really wonder wether the typical contract fee covers the costs of achieving your contract goals. In other words: can you make a living out of your contracts only, or due you have to moonlight as a NPC'er / Miner / T2 BPO holder or whatever? I will try and answer some of those from an MC perspective. Please bear in mind that these are my opinions and do not reflect on the entire Alliance :) As a "True Merc" Alliance we obviously have periods of downtime between contracts. Since establishing our own 0.0 home we use this time for our own Constellation development and isk making for members. Others remain in Empire and run Agents and a few decide to go Anti Pirate in well known pirate systems. Absolutely nobody in MC decides to be a pirate during off contract times. Mercs tend to live a lot by their killboard results. Obviously our job is to satisfy the Client to the best of our ability. Sometimes that means locking down systems in order for our Client to operate. At other times its POS takedown. Both of these types of contract do not necessarily mean we will have a lot of kills, however, as long as we meet our Clients requirements, then it is a job well done. As for cost? The MC are not cheap. There is no reason why we should be cheap :) Our results on contract speak for themselves time and time again. MC Contract prices will depend on what the Client desires. Example a 0.0 contract will be X while a 0.0 contract with POS takedown will be x + y (where y = fuel costs) Interested parties can get a quote by visiting http://www.mercenarycoalition.com/main/contracts.asp and we will be happy to discuss rates further ;)
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:54:00 - [116] Thanks for the answers Kia and Lars. A bit disappointed those MC Vindicators visiting our system on their pirate hunts arent fully funded by Contracts though, otherwise I would have found another excellent career in EVE . Thanks for your offer on getting a quote, but as I'm pretty sure it's out of my league atm, I wouldnt want to bother you with calculations unnecesarily. I was just hoping you might divulge some details on past contracts to get an indication on what the money is. It's seems a winner to me to get paid ISK to PVP, instead of needing to earn ISK to PVP. On a slightly unrelated note: I'm seriously impressed by the logistics some Mercs have in place. Obviously not having sec related travel restrictions helps, but still, getting a whole fleet assembled and ready in what seems to be about a few days notice impresses me.
Larsson7 Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.25 13:02:00 - [117] Originally by: Mi Lai Thanks for the answers Kia and Lars. A bit disappointed those MC Vindicators visiting our system on their pirate hunts arent fully funded by Contracts though, otherwise I would have found another excellent career in EVE . Thanks for your offer on getting a quote, but as I'm pretty sure it's out of my league atm, I wouldnt want to bother you with calculations unnecesarily. I was just hoping you might divulge some details on past contracts to get an indication on what the money is. It's seems a winner to me to get paid ISK to PVP, instead of needing to earn ISK to PVP. On a slightly unrelated note: I'm seriously impressed by the logistics some Mercs have in place. Obviously not having sec related travel restrictions helps, but still, getting a whole fleet assembled and ready in what seems to be about a few days notice impresses me. Like anything in life - If the contract is juicy and really piques our interest - you find the price is not necessarily the most improtant factor. Also note that all the member corps of the MC can take individual contracts so you could hire just CONIN, for example. As for logistics - well that is one of the greatest strengths of the MC. I have seen the entire Alliance deploy in 24 hours with full Corp hangars moved 30+ jumps. The commitment of the MC membership to please our Clients is unmatched
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.09.25 13:49:00 - [118] KIA are a Merc Corp whereas MC are a Merc Coalition. But KIA mirror MC (or MC mirror KIA depending on who ya believe ;) xx Sel) in a lot of ways. KIA has a CAP ship fleet most Corporatios are put to shame by. We have currently 8 Carriers and 6 Dreads, very soon (next week) to be 9 and 8 respectively. This Capital Ship fleet is used to great effect in our contracts. We also have PvP hungry pilots, and we can move our entire operation to any system anywhere in 24 hours, that includes all our ships and logistics for the op (ammo etc). Our downtimes are spent earning Isk, and we are fourtunate to be virtually always in a position to roll onto another contract if we dont need to a Isk making downtime. My corp lives and breathes PvP, and our empoyer gets exactly what he pays for 100% of our time. As such generally it keeps the masses ahppy, and if they dont like the Merc life, then the door is always open, no grudges held :P KIA EVE Home
Dracolich North Star Networks	Posted - 2006.09.27 00:03:00 - [119] Jest version: Merc life for me is pretty much like doing missions. Some tosser tells me to go somewhere, do something; either kill, rescue some damsel in distress or some courier mission. I portray all wartargets as NPCs, until time of contract is over. Then they cease to exist as they get deleted from buddylist. Real version: Merc life for me is of cause about PVP, but instead of just choosing random targets, I(we) help someone in distress. Most importantly I feel that merc life forges a very strong bond to your corp, be cause you depend upon one another to succeed. In time of contract - there isn't some tosser sitting 25 jumps away doing his own thing(either because he is an idiot or to make iskies to afford a ship) - while his merc buddies are fighting their hearts out. I bet most pvp corps are like that tho, but at least its not about politics, territory, being cruel or even isk. At least thats how I view it. Furthermore swedes are very friendly and bake great kladdkaka - some even drink alot. Last note working with NSN and MC as such has taught me what unity is all about - when on contract the whole alliance turns into one corp - this amazes me still(since I haven't seen that from being in any other alliance or one I have fought).
merc999 Caldari Turbulent Subversion	Posted - 2006.10.04 20:55:00 - [120] Some interesting points made, As the Op my thoughts on the profession are.. Although a relative Noob, I joined a newly formed Merc corp a few months ago, made up of pilots from my old local alliance this corps had many of the PvP pilots i had flown with as a noob , they taught me a lot, but their is one major difference than being in a PvP corp/Alliance and a merc corps, the guys now will drop everything to rush to your side if a target appears or you are in trouble, becuase of the large amount of sitting, station camping, system lockdowns etc TS conversations are far more in depth, and fun, and corp mates become real life friends, TBSV recently had an Ad hoc , what the hell lets meet up and have a drink session, which for some members turned into a week visit to the UK from Scandinavia, and for the rest a long weekend. Like many Merc corps TBSV rarely pays its members for their time on contracts (although on particularly boring jobs a payment might be made), instead members get a bonus on skills learned. certain skills the corps maybe short of , if a member trains that skill then a lump sum is paid, this particularly helps the younger players. When I was pirating I loved the game, but I get far more enjoyment flying on contracts with a bunch of freinds than I ever did solo pirating. So, in some of your minds I may be scum of the earth, but I'm having fun, and after all thats what we are all here for

Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.04 21:22:00 - [121] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 04/10/2006 21:27:10 I think mercs are fluffy and sweet tbh, except KIA, they are not fluffy, but a tad sweaty. Still sweet tho. I wonder, now that mercing is like hot and all that, would there be a market for forum-mercenaries ? I tried selling advertising space in my sig but that didn't really work Anyway, isn't scum loveable anyway. Just look at how popular we are. edit: yes I have absolutely nothign to add to this topic actually. I do approve of the merc profession tho, in general. It seems to me however that there's quite alot of wannabees in that line of work these days. Old blog
Mehran Salenahi Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2006.10.04 21:46:00 - [122] Mercenary, at least in our case, is really just a fancy term for "terrorist for hire." Also happens to be one of the oldest professions(right up there with prostitutes, go figure. Murder and sex, the foundation of human history). Are we scum? Sure if you want to look at it that way. Some consider us to be un-desireable types simply because of what we do. Which is harm people for money. We're simply soldiers who's loyalty resides with who is paying us at the time. And while some people think of us as scum, we(merc corps) can be a tremendous asset.
Latex Mistress Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.05 00:15:00 - [123] I like to think of us as the A-Team, just a lot more dysfunctional...
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.05 00:17:00 - [124] Originally by: Latex Mistress I like to think of us as the A-Team, just a lot more dysfunctional... lol.. which one of you loathes flying then? .. thats gotta be a severe handicap in a space game
Grimster Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.05 11:53:00 - [125] Originally by: Nez Perces Originally by: Latex Mistress I like to think of us as the A-Team, just a lot more dysfunctional... lol.. which one of you loathes flying then? .. thats gotta be a severe handicap in a space game _o/ That'd be me.
Cabadrin Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:27:00 - [126] Edited by: Cabadrin on 05/10/2006 16:28:08 It's obvious that Merc corps do it for the fame and women. I can't count the number of damsels, VIPs, and hostages that have thrown themselves at my goo-soaked feet. I also get my drinks paid for by nice bartenders who don't want their bar put into reinforced. The thrill of the hunt makes it for me. I've done pvp on the other side of the thin blue line (pvp training and fleet stuff for NORAD) and I tried to do it before then, back when I was a noob and m0o were camping mara and passari. If I didn't like shooting people for money I'd find another corp and another job. The Merc corp is difficult to sustain because it does have downtime and requires a load of logistics. Furtunately we've been blessed with closet carebears who willingly haul and mine for us, while we live in our riches. I have a suite lined with Morphite in our station at Y-C; I've also got a solid gold toilet in our station at 1-N. See this watch? This watch cost more than your ship. _______________________________________________
Trooper B99 Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:56:00 - [127] Originally by: Cabadrin See this watch? This watch cost more than your ship. That would hold true better if i DIDN'T fly minmatar Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
SATAN BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:41:00 - [128] I dont really see MC as a merc organization, they are far above and beyond that. They are more like NATO for hire with their own agenda and propaganda machine, not to mention that they are backed by BoB. Mercs are specialists for hire, they help those that cant do it them selves by training or doing small jobs. They dont go into a country and take the damn thing over, which MC does.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:59:00 - [129] Well, actually, there's been plenty examples of mercs directly or indirectly taking over a country :p A fun thing to see is the newish split within merc land into two types of merc corps with each a different appeal for customers. You've got the traditional mercs, the "we come when hired and shoot the f*%$ out of every ship we're told to for a week or two", and now you've got a second type that is hired becuase of their specialism: capital ships. Clubs like smash really are good for one thing only: bringing down the hurt with a bunch of capital ships that their partners or clients lack. I've love to see some type of empire-bound big group with a whole lot of pilots make a land grab backed by these latter types. Only capitals and leadership is hired, the unwashed masses to form the blob are already there. These types of merc are truly there to take over the country, not just to harass the enemy of make him hurt. Ah well, enough rambling /me crawls to the fridge Old blog
Nuala Reece Caldari Starlancers	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:20:00 - [130] Edited by: Nuala Reece on 05/10/2006 18:20:23 Originally by: Rod Blaine Well, actually, there's been plenty examples of mercs directly or indirectly taking over a country :p Indeed, it's not unknown at all. Originally by: SATAN I dont really see MC as a merc organization <snip> not to mention that they are backed by BoB. Mercs working on retainer isn't uncmommon either. Originally by: SATAN Mercs are specialists for hire, they help those that cant do it them selves by training or doing small jobs. Well mercs are warriors for hire - some are specialists, certainly, but most aren't. That 'some but not all' principle extends to the original question too - from my point of view mercs are a valuable resource. Some, it's true, are also the scum of the universe but not all. Sadly the scum of the universe who use the merc name as a cover for piracy and/or griefing give a bad name to all mercs. Some of us have a clear code to guide the way we choose to work and the jobs taken. Starlancers

Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:45:00 - [131] Originally by: SATAN I dont really see MC as a merc organization, they are far above and beyond that. They are more like NATO for hire with their own agenda and propaganda machine. Mercs are specialists for hire, they help those that cant do it them selves by training or doing small jobs. They dont go into a country and take the damn thing over, which MC does. I LIKE IT!!! Removed the silly BoB thing. If we were backed by BoB, I wanna know where my secret Titan is... - Movie: 9UY - Got Fighters?
Crovan Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:51:00 - [132] Just small stuff? coughFrenchForeignLegioncoughcough Farjung FanBois, Charter Member
GoGo Yubari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.05 22:40:00 - [133] Originally by: Cabadrin I have a suite lined with Morphite in our station at Y-C; I've also got a solid gold toilet in our station at 1-N. See this watch? This watch cost more than your ship. Damn, that's sweet. Check this out, I got a frickin' waterfall inside my Machariel. Oh yeah, and those are sharks swimming in the pool. My personal quarters in 1-N cost more than the GDP of an average planet. Livin' the dream, baby!
Grimster Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.05 23:51:00 - [134] Originally by: GoGo Yubari Originally by: Cabadrin I have a suite lined with Morphite in our station at Y-C; I've also got a solid gold toilet in our station at 1-N. See this watch? This watch cost more than your ship. Damn, that's sweet. Check this out, I got a frickin' waterfall inside my Machariel. Oh yeah, and those are sharks swimming in the pool. My personal quarters in 1-N cost more than the GDP of an average planet. Livin' the dream, baby! I'm obviously in the wrong corp. WTS "hard core" T1 fitted Tristan


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