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Are L hybrids fixed yet?

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Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.17 15:48:00 - [1] An ongoing discussion on ships and modules bemoans the rather pathetic tracking and oversized ammunition of L hybrids, most especailly problematic is the 425 rails. Is this fixed on Chaos? If not could someone do it before every Gallente and Calidari BS in the game switches entirely to energy and projectile turrets? BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Roba	Posted - 2003.10.17 16:18:00 - [2] What?! Every Caladri piolt knows to use about 3 tracking computer Is on his/her bs.
Valeria	Posted - 2003.10.17 23:06:00 - [3] Wrong. Every Caldari pilot knows to just use Tachyons and get on with it. Sadly enough. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Johnson McCrae	Posted - 2003.10.20 05:58:00 - [4] The caldar's can take a hike. I use a Megathron, which means, I use Tach's and 250's. WHY? Cause large rails suck. It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya! [ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.20 18:03:00 - [5] So can there get fixed please? Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
kwoodward	Posted - 2003.10.23 14:15:00 - [6] i've just got my dommy and am disheatend to know i have to now abandon my hybrids and go for lasers . PLEASE fix hybrids Meow!
StealthNet	Posted - 2003.10.23 15:09:00 - [7] Even mega beams with MF L hit harder than 425mm rails with AM L. and Im not taking about 1 or 2%, Im talking about at least 20%. Even if you fit a cald BS with a magnetic vortex, your mega beams will have a slightly better DOT than the 425mms (and more range too ) Adding the fact that lasers don't need reloading, and that large ammo takes a LOT of cargo... _______________________________________________
SOHAIL	Posted - 2003.10.23 16:39:00 - [8] Large Hybrids need serius attention from CCP, as they are the worst weapons on any ship , even most of Caldari and Gallete use Lasers instead of Hybrids......... "We'll show them what FIREPOWER is all about"
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.24 01:09:00 - [9] I hate to disillusion you all but as far as TomB is concerned turret weapons are balanced and there are no immediate plans for change. Now you can all get on with training energy weapons
Setesh	Posted - 2003.10.24 07:09:00 - [10] There is another aspect of turrets that needs another look and that is the damage types. From what I understand, i'm not intimately familiar with all the different weapons, Beams do em and thermal damage, hybs do thermal and kinetic, but projectiles can do all damage types. This has an added effect of making hybrid weapons complete shiite. Now it is possible, theoreticaly, for beams to be used in an explosive or kinetic manner and this can be extended to hybrids as well cause if a projectile weapon can fire em bullets then why not a hybrid. I set out to use only hybrids pretty early cause I like firing from long ranges and I was going to stick with caldari ships. I've given up on them cause even they suck, I had to move on to using Mega beams cause Tachs would kill the cap on my mwd equiped Raven. While I dont think this is an immediate priority given the multitude of problems with the game it is something that CCP needs to give some attention to some time soon.
PoPa	Posted - 2003.10.24 08:37:00 - [11] Edited by: PoPa on 24/10/2003 08:37:54 Er WHAT go for lasers on a gallente ship. Yeah and loose out on ALOT of bonus's. Thats really dumb tbh from what i've witnessed lasers on a ship that A wasn't built for them and B Doesn't give bonus's for them equals a very bad setup. I might be wrong but i don't think i am. I use 6 425mm's and i do some pretty nice damage i ofcourse fit atleast one tracking comp. I don't see what the problem is really. IMO all the weapons are fairly balanced. PoPa - FireFlies corp
Will McBlack	Posted - 2003.10.24 08:58:00 - [12] I agree PoPa. With 1 Tracking CPU and 3 dmg mods and lvl 3 BShip+Large Hybrid I have frequently wrecking hits of 450+ dmg. I am not complaining.
Mars L	Posted - 2003.10.24 11:09:00 - [13] Will McBlack is either lying or pretty consistently lucky. My caldari battleship is at lvl 4 I fly a Raven with 4 425s, 2 Magnetic Vortex 1, 1 Magnetic Stablizer and a monopulse tracking computer. With the monopulse active the my 425s have a opt range of alittle over 40k with AM. AT any range I seldom get wrecking blows and I average about 170 damage per shot.
Will McBlack	Posted - 2003.10.24 11:36:00 - [14] I'll test it again later at home, these hits were only scored after getting rid of the targets shields.
nonsequitur	Posted - 2003.10.24 14:33:00 - [15] I use Gallente and Caldari ships, but as of yesterday I have completely moved from Hybrid. It is truly sad that on ships build for hybrid rails (Gallente/Caldari) most have realized that Hybrids suck d1ck. I get an average hit with a 425mm Rail (hybrid) between 150 - 300pts with a combination of damage mods and skills. But I changed out my normal 6 - 425's with 5 Tachs on my Megathron and I consistently get 400-600dmg now per hit. The really bad part is that I'm getting about 100% more damage on average (only about 50% more if you account for ROF and Damage over time) and I no longer get the Damage bonus for hybrid that Gall/Cald ships have. I had always thought Hybrids were intended to be the best of both worlds so to speak. Right now, Hybrids are only the worst aspects of Energy and Projectile, huge ammo requirements, and capacitor drain. CCP please fix the hybrid balance, or add new hybrid weapons that deal better damage and leave the existing hybrid guns as bottom end filler. Oh, and as if hybrid weapons were not already full of about 100 different named and unnamed crap guns to confound even the most seasoned of hybrid user. I would trade all the other crap that is just recycled, for one really decent hybrid rail and some neutron cannons. Even before the nerfed stacking rules I could only get 400-500 average with the occasional 900-1100 wreaking, on rails with lots and lots of damage mods. Please TomB if you do nothing else for a year; just fix me beloved hybrids... until then... I have moved to Tachyon Beam, and put my ship damage bonus into storage. nonsequitur...
Sequin	Posted - 2003.10.24 16:06:00 - [16] Hell, I'm a projectille user and I'll agree with this. I was testing weapons with Nons the other day, and I was laughing so hard it hurt when his ubar 425's didnt hit for over 200, while my 14's were getting consistently over 300. And since I'm a mim, the rof is nearly equal to that of tachyons, which is hilarious. Right now, hybrids blow, badly. As a point, I hope every Gallente and Caldari goes projectille, since they don't get the great rof/dmg bonus from the battleship skills like Mim do, I'll still pwn them:P ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!
Javi	Posted - 2003.10.24 16:30:00 - [17] Edited by: Javi on 24/10/2003 16:33:43 Quote: Hell, I'm a projectille user and I'll agree with this. I was testing weapons with Nons the other day, and I was laughing so hard it hurt when his ubar 425's didnt hit for over 200, while my 14's were getting consistently over 300. i was there testing my 425s with your tempest and another fellow corp member's geddon, and basically i'm pretty much ****ed at the results. we'd probably need 3 megas to take down 1 geddon and that is just not right. even with lvl 4 gal battleship, L hybs and surgical strike skills(not to mention vortex stabs), i'm still badly outgunned! CCP pls fix this pronto. you either fix or introduce better large hybrid guns. and for those of you who claim that all these guns are balanced, i take it you don't pvp much. thx. -- "well..." -Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat
Drutort	Posted - 2003.10.25 02:34:00 - [18] Quote: There is another aspect of turrets that needs another look and that is the damage types. From what I understand, i'm not intimately familiar with all the different weapons, Beams do em and thermal damage, hybs do thermal and kinetic, but projectiles can do all damage types. This has an added effect of making hybrid weapons complete shiite. Now it is possible, theoreticaly, for beams to be used in an explosive or kinetic manner and this can be extended to hybrids as well cause if a projectile weapon can fire em bullets then why not a hybrid. I set out to use only hybrids pretty early cause I like firing from long ranges and I was going to stick with caldari ships. I've given up on them cause even they suck, I had to move on to using Mega beams cause Tachs would kill the cap on my mwd equiped Raven. While I dont think this is an immediate priority given the multitude of problems with the game it is something that CCP needs to give some attention to some time soon. in beta the hybrids were like proj, meaning that those useless hybrid ammo's had diff dmg and not just a range mod... which didnt work at the time LOL... but now all you do is use AM LOL and if you do want long range you might use some other ammo but your dmg is weak as hell... and its same type of dmg... why the hell call it diff type of ammo? when all it does is hmm range? shouldnÆt range really be ON THE GUN!!! you dont put different type of bullets in a rifle and it goes different ranges LOL, you put diff shapes and diff gun to get diff range dmg, accuracy etc.. CCP went all wrong on us... and that is proven with projectile ammo... that they share same type of names but proj does different type of dmg.. and hybrid only does 1 type of dmg. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Javi	Posted - 2003.10.27 04:48:00 - [19] can we have some CCP/GM input here pls? -- "well..." -Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat
Kunming	Posted - 2003.10.27 08:06:00 - [20] I dont get it hybrids were the best weapons in beta, so there must be some calculation mistake in the final stage... Looks like this post needs attention! Intercepting since BETA
Nervar	Posted - 2003.10.27 12:26:00 - [21] Edited by: Nervar on 27/10/2003 12:30:31 Caldari ships are good ew ships, so why not just make an ammo designed for it. I would love a ew ammo, that explodes innfront off the ship and disrupts its sensors One could also give tha ammo users some advantage by being able to put different ammo inn the gun, example: 2xew 2xam 2xew 2xam and so on It would turn the tables a litlle more -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
Orcus	Posted - 2003.10.29 12:22:00 - [22] Caldari ships are best at pvp because of mid slots, should their weapons also do the most damage?? No I dont think so.
Jack Ryan	Posted - 2003.10.29 15:31:00 - [23] Quote: Caldari ships are best at pvp because of mid slots, should their weapons also do the most damage?? This isn't about Caldari ships, it's about both Caldari and Gallente ships, which have weapon type bonus for Hybrid guns.. This is about the large hybrid guns not being a match for artillery or energy guns, you have to admit that. And just because I can't help it, I'll reply to your caldari comment, YES, we have more midslots, why? Well, because we have less LOW slots!
Draximus Prime	Posted - 2003.10.30 11:27:00 - [24] Problem is everyone wants an ubership that has everything... Amarr - Damage + Armor Caldari - EW + Shields + Missiles Gallente - Drones + ?!?! Minmatar - Who cares damn slaves... If railguns compared to tachyons, would it be fair that Amarr have no EW ? Basically you want a ship that has EW, Nice Damage, Big Shields, Missiles, Drones ... Its not gonna happen... There is nothing stopping you from using energy weapons, or projectiles for that matter, you just get a bonus for hybrids, to help you out... EW is king... other ships with huge damage cant do jack diddly squat when jammed up... this is a huge advantage over the other races, but you dont see them whining about it. ______________________ To dare in fields is valor; but how few dare to be throughly valiant to be true?
Nervar	Posted - 2003.10.30 13:33:00 - [25] Yet another guy that hasnt tryed the 425 rails i see. You see the 425 rail hardly does anny more dmg than the medium 250 rail. Bothe megabeams(skill lvl1) and 1200mm(skill lvl1 ) projectile outdmg the 425 rail(skill lvl3) by far... Its not the dmg itself that is the problem its the tracking speed wich is 0.0022 compared to the megabeams 0.0033 You may bee right about Caldari not neading more powerfull turrest(but fit 2 mega or even tachs and you have the best guns inn game), but what about Gallente.... Theyr gun bonuses is good but the guns suck so bad there is no point using them. -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
Geridan	Posted - 2003.10.30 14:35:00 - [26] Hi Im also using 425mm railgun, just now im testing 2 tachyon and 2 Mega puls (no ammo and I love it) But I use 5 425 railguns when using hybrid on my Megathron and I take down the enemy much faster with them than the 4 laser (see above), but need alot of ammo
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.31 01:10:00 - [27] Quote: Yet another guy that hasnt tryed the 425 rails i see. You see the 425 rail hardly does anny more dmg than the medium 250 rail. Bothe megabeams(skill lvl1) and 1200mm(skill lvl1 ) projectile outdmg the 425 rail(skill lvl3) by far... Its not the dmg itself that is the problem its the tracking speed wich is 0.0022 compared to the megabeams 0.0033 You may bee right about Caldari not neading more powerfull turrest(but fit 2 mega or even tachs and you have the best guns inn game), but what about Gallente.... Theyr gun bonuses is good but the guns suck so bad there is no point using them. Amen to pretty much all you've said. An yes the 250 rail does do almost as much damage, especially a loot one. And the 250 has chance of hitting a frigate, wheareas with the 425 just hope you've got a statis web on board. My Dominix is almost useless for PvE because of the large ammo and bad tracking issue (even Tachs have 50% better tracking) and is no better for PvP using Blasters at 1 KM (No thanks) or Rails at 25 KM (good luck getting that range and holding it in PvP). With no missile slots you'd think it was meant to be an all-gun bruiser like the Geddon, but we have both in our corp and the Geddon lays out wicked. Only nice thing about the Dominix is the Dronebay, CPU and 5 mid slots. But without 425 rails that work, it's not much of a ship for anything but mining. Ironically, it is a wicked mining ship... But 50 mil to do nothing but mine? BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Javi	Posted - 2003.10.31 01:40:00 - [28] Quote: Problem is everyone wants an ubership that has everything... Amarr - Damage + Armor Caldari - EW + Shields + Missiles Gallente - Drones + ?!?! Minmatar - Who cares damn slaves... Amarr = Damage - Armor Caldari = EW - Missles - Shields Minmatar = Proj. Damage - less cap use = possible EW or better Shields. Gallente = Drone space... eh? har har. Quote: There is nothing stopping you from using energy weapons, or projectiles for that matter, you just get a bonus for hybrids, to help you out... Well that's the thing, I don't think the "5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level" was ever implemented. Maybe the tracking but sure as hell not the dmg bonus. If I could, I'd rollback Gallente battleship and L Hybs to lvl 3, since i was doing better dmg then. True that nothing is stopping us from going energy or projectile turrets, but it's just plain stupid that we wasted weeks training for skills that gave nothing at all. You'd be writing up the same complaint if you trained up tempest or apoc skills but didn't get bonus. gg n thx. -- "well..." -Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat
Ranx Xerox	Posted - 2003.10.31 10:39:00 - [29] Edited by: Ranx Xerox on 31/10/2003 10:40:47 Please CCP can you help on this and let Gallente used their guns and not just beeing Politicians :) PS : we have a lot of posts asking about Hybrids and megathron beeing useless and never have any CCP answer on that :(
Jack Ryan	Posted - 2003.11.03 09:54:00 - [30] Quote: There is nothing stopping you from using energy weapons, or projectiles for that matter, you just get a bonus for hybrids, to help you out... EW is king... other ships with huge damage cant do jack diddly squat when jammed up... this is a huge advantage over the other races, but you dont see them whining about it. Will you please stop moaning about EW? You're not better at EW because you happen to have a caldari ship, what you do have is more possibility to do EW, and the trade-off is having lousy low slot space. Disproportionately bad L hybrid guns are not a compensation for ³ber caldari ships, because my friend, gallente ships are also supposed to use hybrids, where do they deserve this bad treatment (besides having french origins)?

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