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Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.17 15:48:00 - [1] An ongoing discussion on ships and modules bemoans the rather pathetic tracking and oversized ammunition of L hybrids, most especailly problematic is the 425 rails. Is this fixed on Chaos? If not could someone do it before every Gallente and Calidari BS in the game switches entirely to energy and projectile turrets? BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Roba	Posted - 2003.10.17 16:18:00 - [2] What?! Every Caladri piolt knows to use about 3 tracking computer Is on his/her bs.
Valeria	Posted - 2003.10.17 23:06:00 - [3] Wrong. Every Caldari pilot knows to just use Tachyons and get on with it. Sadly enough. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Johnson McCrae	Posted - 2003.10.20 05:58:00 - [4] The caldar's can take a hike. I use a Megathron, which means, I use Tach's and 250's. WHY? Cause large rails suck. It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya! [ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.20 18:03:00 - [5] So can there get fixed please? Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
kwoodward	Posted - 2003.10.23 14:15:00 - [6] i've just got my dommy and am disheatend to know i have to now abandon my hybrids and go for lasers . PLEASE fix hybrids Meow!
StealthNet	Posted - 2003.10.23 15:09:00 - [7] Even mega beams with MF L hit harder than 425mm rails with AM L. and Im not taking about 1 or 2%, Im talking about at least 20%. Even if you fit a cald BS with a magnetic vortex, your mega beams will have a slightly better DOT than the 425mms (and more range too ) Adding the fact that lasers don't need reloading, and that large ammo takes a LOT of cargo... _______________________________________________
SOHAIL	Posted - 2003.10.23 16:39:00 - [8] Large Hybrids need serius attention from CCP, as they are the worst weapons on any ship , even most of Caldari and Gallete use Lasers instead of Hybrids......... "We'll show them what FIREPOWER is all about"
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.24 01:09:00 - [9] I hate to disillusion you all but as far as TomB is concerned turret weapons are balanced and there are no immediate plans for change. Now you can all get on with training energy weapons
Setesh	Posted - 2003.10.24 07:09:00 - [10] There is another aspect of turrets that needs another look and that is the damage types. From what I understand, i'm not intimately familiar with all the different weapons, Beams do em and thermal damage, hybs do thermal and kinetic, but projectiles can do all damage types. This has an added effect of making hybrid weapons complete shiite. Now it is possible, theoreticaly, for beams to be used in an explosive or kinetic manner and this can be extended to hybrids as well cause if a projectile weapon can fire em bullets then why not a hybrid. I set out to use only hybrids pretty early cause I like firing from long ranges and I was going to stick with caldari ships. I've given up on them cause even they suck, I had to move on to using Mega beams cause Tachs would kill the cap on my mwd equiped Raven. While I dont think this is an immediate priority given the multitude of problems with the game it is something that CCP needs to give some attention to some time soon.
PoPa	Posted - 2003.10.24 08:37:00 - [11] Edited by: PoPa on 24/10/2003 08:37:54 Er WHAT go for lasers on a gallente ship. Yeah and loose out on ALOT of bonus's. Thats really dumb tbh from what i've witnessed lasers on a ship that A wasn't built for them and B Doesn't give bonus's for them equals a very bad setup. I might be wrong but i don't think i am. I use 6 425mm's and i do some pretty nice damage i ofcourse fit atleast one tracking comp. I don't see what the problem is really. IMO all the weapons are fairly balanced. PoPa - FireFlies corp
Will McBlack	Posted - 2003.10.24 08:58:00 - [12] I agree PoPa. With 1 Tracking CPU and 3 dmg mods and lvl 3 BShip+Large Hybrid I have frequently wrecking hits of 450+ dmg. I am not complaining.
Mars L	Posted - 2003.10.24 11:09:00 - [13] Will McBlack is either lying or pretty consistently lucky. My caldari battleship is at lvl 4 I fly a Raven with 4 425s, 2 Magnetic Vortex 1, 1 Magnetic Stablizer and a monopulse tracking computer. With the monopulse active the my 425s have a opt range of alittle over 40k with AM. AT any range I seldom get wrecking blows and I average about 170 damage per shot.
Will McBlack	Posted - 2003.10.24 11:36:00 - [14] I'll test it again later at home, these hits were only scored after getting rid of the targets shields.
nonsequitur	Posted - 2003.10.24 14:33:00 - [15] I use Gallente and Caldari ships, but as of yesterday I have completely moved from Hybrid. It is truly sad that on ships build for hybrid rails (Gallente/Caldari) most have realized that Hybrids suck d1ck. I get an average hit with a 425mm Rail (hybrid) between 150 - 300pts with a combination of damage mods and skills. But I changed out my normal 6 - 425's with 5 Tachs on my Megathron and I consistently get 400-600dmg now per hit. The really bad part is that I'm getting about 100% more damage on average (only about 50% more if you account for ROF and Damage over time) and I no longer get the Damage bonus for hybrid that Gall/Cald ships have. I had always thought Hybrids were intended to be the best of both worlds so to speak. Right now, Hybrids are only the worst aspects of Energy and Projectile, huge ammo requirements, and capacitor drain. CCP please fix the hybrid balance, or add new hybrid weapons that deal better damage and leave the existing hybrid guns as bottom end filler. Oh, and as if hybrid weapons were not already full of about 100 different named and unnamed crap guns to confound even the most seasoned of hybrid user. I would trade all the other crap that is just recycled, for one really decent hybrid rail and some neutron cannons. Even before the nerfed stacking rules I could only get 400-500 average with the occasional 900-1100 wreaking, on rails with lots and lots of damage mods. Please TomB if you do nothing else for a year; just fix me beloved hybrids... until then... I have moved to Tachyon Beam, and put my ship damage bonus into storage. nonsequitur...
Sequin	Posted - 2003.10.24 16:06:00 - [16] Hell, I'm a projectille user and I'll agree with this. I was testing weapons with Nons the other day, and I was laughing so hard it hurt when his ubar 425's didnt hit for over 200, while my 14's were getting consistently over 300. And since I'm a mim, the rof is nearly equal to that of tachyons, which is hilarious. Right now, hybrids blow, badly. As a point, I hope every Gallente and Caldari goes projectille, since they don't get the great rof/dmg bonus from the battleship skills like Mim do, I'll still pwn them:P ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!
Javi	Posted - 2003.10.24 16:30:00 - [17] Edited by: Javi on 24/10/2003 16:33:43 Quote: Hell, I'm a projectille user and I'll agree with this. I was testing weapons with Nons the other day, and I was laughing so hard it hurt when his ubar 425's didnt hit for over 200, while my 14's were getting consistently over 300. i was there testing my 425s with your tempest and another fellow corp member's geddon, and basically i'm pretty much ****ed at the results. we'd probably need 3 megas to take down 1 geddon and that is just not right. even with lvl 4 gal battleship, L hybs and surgical strike skills(not to mention vortex stabs), i'm still badly outgunned! CCP pls fix this pronto. you either fix or introduce better large hybrid guns. and for those of you who claim that all these guns are balanced, i take it you don't pvp much. thx. -- "well..." -Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat
Drutort	Posted - 2003.10.25 02:34:00 - [18] Quote: There is another aspect of turrets that needs another look and that is the damage types. From what I understand, i'm not intimately familiar with all the different weapons, Beams do em and thermal damage, hybs do thermal and kinetic, but projectiles can do all damage types. This has an added effect of making hybrid weapons complete shiite. Now it is possible, theoreticaly, for beams to be used in an explosive or kinetic manner and this can be extended to hybrids as well cause if a projectile weapon can fire em bullets then why not a hybrid. I set out to use only hybrids pretty early cause I like firing from long ranges and I was going to stick with caldari ships. I've given up on them cause even they suck, I had to move on to using Mega beams cause Tachs would kill the cap on my mwd equiped Raven. While I dont think this is an immediate priority given the multitude of problems with the game it is something that CCP needs to give some attention to some time soon. in beta the hybrids were like proj, meaning that those useless hybrid ammo's had diff dmg and not just a range mod... which didnt work at the time LOL... but now all you do is use AM LOL and if you do want long range you might use some other ammo but your dmg is weak as hell... and its same type of dmg... why the hell call it diff type of ammo? when all it does is hmm range? shouldnÆt range really be ON THE GUN!!! you dont put different type of bullets in a rifle and it goes different ranges LOL, you put diff shapes and diff gun to get diff range dmg, accuracy etc.. CCP went all wrong on us... and that is proven with projectile ammo... that they share same type of names but proj does different type of dmg.. and hybrid only does 1 type of dmg. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Javi	Posted - 2003.10.27 04:48:00 - [19] can we have some CCP/GM input here pls? -- "well..." -Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat
Kunming	Posted - 2003.10.27 08:06:00 - [20] I dont get it hybrids were the best weapons in beta, so there must be some calculation mistake in the final stage... Looks like this post needs attention! Intercepting since BETA
Nervar	Posted - 2003.10.27 12:26:00 - [21] Edited by: Nervar on 27/10/2003 12:30:31 Caldari ships are good ew ships, so why not just make an ammo designed for it. I would love a ew ammo, that explodes innfront off the ship and disrupts its sensors One could also give tha ammo users some advantage by being able to put different ammo inn the gun, example: 2xew 2xam 2xew 2xam and so on It would turn the tables a litlle more -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
Orcus	Posted - 2003.10.29 12:22:00 - [22] Caldari ships are best at pvp because of mid slots, should their weapons also do the most damage?? No I dont think so.
Jack Ryan	Posted - 2003.10.29 15:31:00 - [23] Quote: Caldari ships are best at pvp because of mid slots, should their weapons also do the most damage?? This isn't about Caldari ships, it's about both Caldari and Gallente ships, which have weapon type bonus for Hybrid guns.. This is about the large hybrid guns not being a match for artillery or energy guns, you have to admit that. And just because I can't help it, I'll reply to your caldari comment, YES, we have more midslots, why? Well, because we have less LOW slots!
Draximus Prime	Posted - 2003.10.30 11:27:00 - [24] Problem is everyone wants an ubership that has everything... Amarr - Damage + Armor Caldari - EW + Shields + Missiles Gallente - Drones + ?!?! Minmatar - Who cares damn slaves... If railguns compared to tachyons, would it be fair that Amarr have no EW ? Basically you want a ship that has EW, Nice Damage, Big Shields, Missiles, Drones ... Its not gonna happen... There is nothing stopping you from using energy weapons, or projectiles for that matter, you just get a bonus for hybrids, to help you out... EW is king... other ships with huge damage cant do jack diddly squat when jammed up... this is a huge advantage over the other races, but you dont see them whining about it. ______________________ To dare in fields is valor; but how few dare to be throughly valiant to be true?
Nervar	Posted - 2003.10.30 13:33:00 - [25] Yet another guy that hasnt tryed the 425 rails i see. You see the 425 rail hardly does anny more dmg than the medium 250 rail. Bothe megabeams(skill lvl1) and 1200mm(skill lvl1 ) projectile outdmg the 425 rail(skill lvl3) by far... Its not the dmg itself that is the problem its the tracking speed wich is 0.0022 compared to the megabeams 0.0033 You may bee right about Caldari not neading more powerfull turrest(but fit 2 mega or even tachs and you have the best guns inn game), but what about Gallente.... Theyr gun bonuses is good but the guns suck so bad there is no point using them. -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
Geridan	Posted - 2003.10.30 14:35:00 - [26] Hi Im also using 425mm railgun, just now im testing 2 tachyon and 2 Mega puls (no ammo and I love it) But I use 5 425 railguns when using hybrid on my Megathron and I take down the enemy much faster with them than the 4 laser (see above), but need alot of ammo
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2003.10.31 01:10:00 - [27] Quote: Yet another guy that hasnt tryed the 425 rails i see. You see the 425 rail hardly does anny more dmg than the medium 250 rail. Bothe megabeams(skill lvl1) and 1200mm(skill lvl1 ) projectile outdmg the 425 rail(skill lvl3) by far... Its not the dmg itself that is the problem its the tracking speed wich is 0.0022 compared to the megabeams 0.0033 You may bee right about Caldari not neading more powerfull turrest(but fit 2 mega or even tachs and you have the best guns inn game), but what about Gallente.... Theyr gun bonuses is good but the guns suck so bad there is no point using them. Amen to pretty much all you've said. An yes the 250 rail does do almost as much damage, especially a loot one. And the 250 has chance of hitting a frigate, wheareas with the 425 just hope you've got a statis web on board. My Dominix is almost useless for PvE because of the large ammo and bad tracking issue (even Tachs have 50% better tracking) and is no better for PvP using Blasters at 1 KM (No thanks) or Rails at 25 KM (good luck getting that range and holding it in PvP). With no missile slots you'd think it was meant to be an all-gun bruiser like the Geddon, but we have both in our corp and the Geddon lays out wicked. Only nice thing about the Dominix is the Dronebay, CPU and 5 mid slots. But without 425 rails that work, it's not much of a ship for anything but mining. Ironically, it is a wicked mining ship... But 50 mil to do nothing but mine? BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Javi	Posted - 2003.10.31 01:40:00 - [28] Quote: Problem is everyone wants an ubership that has everything... Amarr - Damage + Armor Caldari - EW + Shields + Missiles Gallente - Drones + ?!?! Minmatar - Who cares damn slaves... Amarr = Damage - Armor Caldari = EW - Missles - Shields Minmatar = Proj. Damage - less cap use = possible EW or better Shields. Gallente = Drone space... eh? har har. Quote: There is nothing stopping you from using energy weapons, or projectiles for that matter, you just get a bonus for hybrids, to help you out... Well that's the thing, I don't think the "5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level" was ever implemented. Maybe the tracking but sure as hell not the dmg bonus. If I could, I'd rollback Gallente battleship and L Hybs to lvl 3, since i was doing better dmg then. True that nothing is stopping us from going energy or projectile turrets, but it's just plain stupid that we wasted weeks training for skills that gave nothing at all. You'd be writing up the same complaint if you trained up tempest or apoc skills but didn't get bonus. gg n thx. -- "well..." -Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat
Ranx Xerox	Posted - 2003.10.31 10:39:00 - [29] Edited by: Ranx Xerox on 31/10/2003 10:40:47 Please CCP can you help on this and let Gallente used their guns and not just beeing Politicians :) PS : we have a lot of posts asking about Hybrids and megathron beeing useless and never have any CCP answer on that :(
Jack Ryan	Posted - 2003.11.03 09:54:00 - [30] Quote: There is nothing stopping you from using energy weapons, or projectiles for that matter, you just get a bonus for hybrids, to help you out... EW is king... other ships with huge damage cant do jack diddly squat when jammed up... this is a huge advantage over the other races, but you dont see them whining about it. Will you please stop moaning about EW? You're not better at EW because you happen to have a caldari ship, what you do have is more possibility to do EW, and the trade-off is having lousy low slot space. Disproportionately bad L hybrid guns are not a compensation for ³ber caldari ships, because my friend, gallente ships are also supposed to use hybrids, where do they deserve this bad treatment (besides having french origins)?
Stepping Razor	Posted - 2003.11.05 15:37:00 - [31] Edited by: Stepping Razor on 05/11/2003 15:38:47 Quote: Will you please stop moaning about EW? You're not better at EW because you happen to have a caldari ship, what you do have is more possibility to do EW, and the trade-off is having lousy low slot space. Disproportionately bad L hybrid guns are not a compensation for ³ber caldari ships, because my friend, gallente ships are also supposed to use hybrids, where do they deserve this bad treatment (besides having french origins)? Agreed. Fixing L hybrids (Coming Soon, with Tech II is the current story) won't make Calidari much more powerful in PvP than they already are. The boost to missile strength and the effective operation of all mid-slot EW has done it. Now if cap neuts worked without occasionaly CTDs and Nosferatus had reasonable range and took a decent ammount from the target, others could get into the act. As it it Calidari ships are the best for all types of PvP, agent missions and fast travel. Amarr are best for rat farming, as part of large blockades and good for mining. Minmater are good in medium and large sized combat and are fast. Gallente are useless for anything but mining since they are all turrets and drones, with hybrid bonuses. The Dev chat said they've be fixed with Tech II. Does that mean that current Hybrids will be fixed at that time, or that Tech II hybrids will be better balanced? Razor Originally by: Bonaventure Phaidon CCP is the best at at least three things: 1. Really, really fun gameplay 2. Good forum presence 3. Inventing new and exciting ways to bring about in-game catacly
Rancid Mare	Posted - 2003.11.06 12:53:00 - [32] Quote: can we have some CCP/GM input here pls? Dream on..... Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
Stepping Razor	Posted - 2003.11.06 21:17:00 - [33] Anyone seen the fixes on Chaos yet? Supposedly being fixed with Tech II in "a few weeks (tm)". BW Razor Originally by: Bonaventure Phaidon CCP is the best at at least three things: 1. Really, really fun gameplay 2. Good forum presence 3. Inventing new and exciting ways to bring about in-game catacly
Javi	Posted - 2003.11.08 10:07:00 - [34] Quote: Quote: can we have some CCP/GM input here pls? Dream on..... actually I did and posts like these are the kind that come from idiots like you now go and suck on your thumb or whatever it is you do besides post stupid replies k gg. Quote: Anyone seen the fixes on Chaos yet? Supposedly being fixed with Tech II in "a few weeks (tm)". kinda silly since they had the time to tweak energy and projectiles a few times now. why do we have to wait that long? -- "well..." -Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat
Davian Windspear	Posted - 2003.11.08 12:20:00 - [35] Am i hearing right here? Do you get 600+ hits with most guns? What sort of damage would you be happy with from the battleships? Because to me it sounds like 600 is a little excessive, that is 5-6 shots to destroy a cruiser, which is one volley no? I think these guns sound a little lame (in a very short battle type way lol) Would be interested to know what hits per weapon you are getting in your battleships, and what you consider a fair amount...
Cavtrooper	Posted - 2003.11.08 18:24:00 - [36] Quote: [ why the hell call it diff type of ammo? when all it does is hmm range? shouldnÆt range really be ON THE GUN!!! you dont put different type of bullets in a rifle and it goes different ranges LOL, you put diff shapes and diff gun to get diff range dmg, accuracy etc.. CCP went all wrong on us... and that is proven with projectile ammo... that they share same type of names but proj does different type of dmg.. and hybrid only does 1 type of dmg. Actually different bullet or warheads do perform differently when fired out of the same cannon. That is why there are various ammunition types for say a tank, and it has to have different ballistic solutions for each ammo type. AWM Homepage, become a #*%^ Flinging Monkey!!
agrizla	Posted - 2003.11.09 01:25:00 - [37] Edited by: agrizla on 09/11/2003 01:28:44 Simple facts : 1) I get roughly 50% more DoT out of large lasers than large hybrids (blasters excepted but they are ganking weapons only); 2) I have better hybrid skills than beam skills; 3) I don't have to fill every spare slot with some sort of tracking mod to hit consistently with large lasers. Try hitting consistently for decent damage with 425's that way. Doesn't happen. We all know they're b0rked. We all know they ain't gonna get fixed anytime soon too. So forget Gallente battleships for anything other than PVP ganking, npc hunting or mining. They need support at this too as even with blasters you can't deal enough damage fast enough and web/warp the target. I guess some of you may be able to but if you took your skillset and transferred it to another race's BS you'd be quite astounded what it can do. Edit - nobody flying Caldari ships can moan cos you have missiles. I mainly fly Caldari myself now but Gallente BSs are a waste of space for the amount of cash they cost. Needs fixing.
Eefrit	Posted - 2003.11.09 22:25:00 - [38] I'm glad everyone thinks hybrids suck. Now when i go against a pker with a caldari or gallante ship i know i can kill em faster then they can me. I know i do as much dmg with my hybrid Rail Gun setup as i did on my other account in a apoc with 4 to 5 tachs doin 250 to 600 per shot per tach. You dont have to agree with me on this, but I like the dmg i do with my rails. Have fun putting minmitarr and amarr crap on your caldari and or gallente ships. *********************************************** Never Under Estimate Your Opponent. Only Death Awaits Those That Do.
Javi	Posted - 2003.11.10 01:10:00 - [39] Edited by: Javi on 10/11/2003 01:12:24 show some love HERE ppl. -- "well..." -Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat
Rancid Mare	Posted - 2003.11.10 09:33:00 - [40] Quote: Quote: Quote: can we have some CCP/GM input here pls? Dream on..... actually I did and posts like these are the kind that come from idiots like you now go and suck on your thumb or whatever it is you do besides post stupid replies k gg. Quote: Anyone seen the fixes on Chaos yet? Supposedly being fixed with Tech II in "a few weeks (tm)". kinda silly since they had the time to tweak energy and projectiles a few times now. why do we have to wait that long? hmmmmm looking real hard but cannot see the CCP or GM imput.......please do point out my error and show me where their imput is. Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
Kane Jacobs	Posted - 2003.11.10 10:55:00 - [41] You're almost better off using M rails Then Large ones.... _______________________________________________
The Beast	Posted - 2003.11.10 11:37:00 - [42] I must agree with Kane on this one.. My 425mm Rails are pathetic.. my gunnery skills are practically maxed out along with a couple of tracking mods and damage mods (2 of each) my damage is still pathetic compared to the 2 Tachs i use.. even Mega Beams are better than my 425's with AM ammo... not to mention the ammount of room taken up my Megathrons cargo hold.. I can quite easily destroy another mega with lasers and some Cap Boosters fitted compared to the damage i do with my 425's.. if the thing i am shooting at moves faster than 100m/s i cant hit it for s**t ! I must admit that buying a set of Gaus 250's it much more appealing than using my currently patetic 425's.. although i must admit that the heavy neutron baslters are very nice at about 7km with AM ammo I dont think it is a question of making rails "uber" but of balance.. the combination of ridiculously low tracking speeds and the size of ammo make hybrids (well large ones anyhow) almost not worth the hastle.. I will be swapping to Tachs and Mega beams today..oh and i have 8 Tachs on sale in Korama if anyone is looking Just my 2 cents.. "If God Posted His Second Coming Here I Would Ban His Ass For Being Off Topic ! :)"
Jarjar	Posted - 2003.11.10 12:16:00 - [43] Thread I know this thread is a lot older, I just wanted to point it out.
Stepping Razor	Posted - 2003.11.10 15:20:00 - [44] Quote: Thread I know this thread is a lot older, I just wanted to point it out. thank Jar Jar, hadn't seen it yet :) Razor Originally by: Bonaventure Phaidon CCP is the best at at least three things: 1. Really, really fun gameplay 2. Good forum presence 3. Inventing new and exciting ways to bring about in-game catacly

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