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Nitra Bear
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Posted - 2006.09.06 08:31:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Nitra Bear on 06/09/2006 08:39:34
It`s not a secret, that most of fleet battles do at long ranges. (180-220 km)
Strategy is simple:
1.BS gang warp in at 180+ km (usually on Covert)
2.kill a enemy ship with 1-2 salvos
3.warp out before tacklers will reach their
4.repeat
It`s no only other tactics to counter them, exept to have same long-range BS gang.
It`s greatly confine tactics and ships that may be used in fleet battles.
We need some changes, isn`t it?
P.S. Sorry for my low English.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.09.06 08:33:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 06/09/2006 08:34:04
Read Tux's blog. They are looking into altering how fleet battles occur.
So far some suggessted changed involve area effect weapons to break up the battle blob and giving weapon ranges significant reductions to bring the fight in closer where more options may be available.
Edit: Oh yeah, as Jim says, using caps doesn't make you look important, it makes you look like a twit.
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.06 08:33:00 -
[3]
Why the caps in the title? You feel this thread is more important than the rest?
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Chewan Mesa
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.06 08:35:00 -
[4]
A Covert as warpin works like a charm.
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Nitra Bear
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Posted - 2006.09.06 08:41:00 -
[5]
Sorry. Topic will be corrected.
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Lazuran
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Posted - 2006.09.06 09:57:00 -
[6]
Yep, it's a bit of a problem, esp. since using a covert to get a warp-in point won't work in this case (they will warp out again before it reaches them).
Perhaps they should change the target painter effect so that it allows you to warp to the target ... Or add a module with this effect.
"The whole of NYC is not 1.0. Some back alley in the Bronx is deep 0.0, while right outside NYPD headquarters is 1.0." -- Slaaght Bana |
Miserable Girl
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Posted - 2006.09.06 11:44:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Miserable Girl on 06/09/2006 11:45:00
Doesnt a sensor dampener help?
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Reincarnator
Amarr
Brute Force Missions inc
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Posted - 2006.09.06 12:01:00 -
[8]
One for every ship in the opposing fleet? 
 Quote:
You will never quote this sig!
QFT |
eLLioTT wave
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.09.06 12:03:00 -
[9]
I want to ditch the dual bonus modules and be done with all this.
Sensor boosters should boost your scan res ONLY, Range Boosters (or some such thing) should reduce your scan res but give you increased range. The penalty should be so great that fitting 2 of each will effectively counter each other out and leave you at your starting scan res and range. example:
Sensor Booster: +60% scan res, -60% lock range
Sensor Range Booster: -60% scan res, +60% lock range
This would mean you can snipe if you want but it's gonna take ages to lock OR you can lock faster but you'll have to be up close and personal.
Also tracking computers should be split and give you +tracking -optimal range OR -tracking +optimal range.
IMHO same with damage mods and all the rest.
So you would end up with configs for close range like, sensor booster, high rof, high tracking and sniper ones with high range slow lock, high damage low rof, low tracking high optimal range. |
Patch Esquire
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Posted - 2006.09.06 12:06:00 -
[10]
Sensor damps ftw! Seriously you guys, no imagination.
Enemy warps in at a range your not happy with, just warp out yourself, as they're well out of scram range. And if it's your fleet thats doing the warping in (which theres no reason it couldn't be) you're quite free to warp in at any range you like (15km is still the default warp in, last I checked). Scramble. Pew Pew Pew. Kapow. They're kitted for long range, you're now at short range, guess who's going to win now? 
In other words, never fight an enemy at a range you can't fight them. Warp out, use your own cov ops and scouts, warp in at a distance that suits you. Most victories in real PvP go on at 20km and under, where you can pin the enemy with scrams.
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If you're reading this, Patch86 was too lazy to select his main.
Again. |
vyperpit
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.09.06 12:14:00 -
[11]
well the way lag is in the game, close range setups are not viable!!
that menas you HAVE TO use long range setups!
now i would say the new t2 ammo broke the range of guns/missiles
before you could hit about 170 in a megathron further than that and u start missing. but at that range you did crap damage. so you used to go in at about 100 and load lead and drif to 120 and perhaps then switch to tungston. so the range was about 80km to 120km and 140-160km if you wanted to do sucky dmg
so if u get rid of 100% range t2 ammo and change it into somethig else, and loose the dual bonous of sensor boosters you will see fleets definitly back down to 150km and more likely to the 100km mark!!
on top of that people will not lock so fast and at those ranges tracking desrupters/damps/ecm work making fighting last longer
no need to mess with turret optimal to fix broken t2 ammo
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eveplayer11
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Posted - 2006.09.06 12:30:00 -
[12]
smartbomb launcher ftw!  fit 8 of those on a couple of ships and bye bye blobbs! 
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Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.06 12:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Patch Esquire
Sensor damps ftw! Seriously you guys, no imagination.
Enemy warps in at a range your not happy with, just warp out yourself, as they're well out of scram range. And if it's your fleet thats doing the warping in (which theres no reason it couldn't be) you're quite free to warp in at any range you like (15km is still the default warp in, last I checked). Scramble. Pew Pew Pew. Kapow. They're kitted for long range, you're now at short range, guess who's going to win now?
In other words, never fight an enemy at a range you can't fight them. Warp out, use your own cov ops and scouts, warp in at a distance that suits you. Most victories in real PvP go on at 20km and under, where you can pin the enemy with scrams.
Another textbook pvp hero.
Sensor damps dont work at the ranges discussed in the OP.
If it was so easy to land on top of a long range fleet at short range then people would do it. Guess what? It's not easy.
It's much easier to warp in at long range and pop a target or two on the enemy fleet while they are aligning.
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Pepperami
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.09.06 12:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Patch Esquire
Sensor damps ftw! Seriously you guys, no imagination.
And you have no knowledge of the game? Check the stats of damps, 30k optimal with 60k fall off - how exactly are you meant to dampen a target 200k away?
As for all those people saying "use covert ops", I'm sure you've thought many battles through in your head but never actually been in one, a half intelligent fleet will use their own covert ops to warp in at a completely random point, kill, warp out and change positions with their covert for the next time they warp in. Hence, you can't get on top of them because they could warp in at anypoint in 200km radius sphere.
Fleet ranges need desperate changes - as the OP said; the only real tactic is to fly t2 long range bs, unless of course, you enjoy running.
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MacDuncan
Minmatar
Unknown Society
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Posted - 2006.09.06 13:32:00 -
[15]
Erm....why not simply shoot back w. the same T2 fitted BS?  
If they are able to lock/fire @ that range, you should be also able to do so in a proper fitted fleet BS! And....you can also kill a ship with the same 2 salvos IF your leader is good enough to give you a target call...
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Laythun
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.06 13:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Patch Esquire
Sensor damps ftw! Seriously you guys, no imagination.
Enemy warps in at a range your not happy with, just warp out yourself, as they're well out of scram range. And if it's your fleet thats doing the warping in (which theres no reason it couldn't be) you're quite free to warp in at any range you like (15km is still the default warp in, last I checked). Scramble. Pew Pew Pew. Kapow. They're kitted for long range, you're now at short range, guess who's going to win now?
In other words, never fight an enemy at a range you can't fight them. Warp out, use your own cov ops and scouts, warp in at a distance that suits you. Most victories in real PvP go on at 20km and under, where you can pin the enemy with scrams.
youve never done what your suggesting have you?? do u know waht t2 tachs can do with gleam to a clse range ship??
Anyway, the only solution is to have snipers too. If you think you'll get a chance to warp out then your sadly mistaken, theres a reason we have dictors.
See You In Space Cowboy |
Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.09.06 14:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Patch Esquire
Sensor damps ftw! Seriously you guys, no imagination.
Sensor damps don't work at 200km.
Originally by: Patch Esquire
In other words, never fight an enemy at a range you can't fight them.
Both sides do this. The result is a lot of warping in and out. Additionally, you can only jump into a system at 15km from the gate, so if you're fighting an enemy sniper fleet who have bubbled the gate you can only engage them at 200km. Not quite sure why you think fleet battles aren't "real PvP" ... it doesn't work as well as we'd all like it to, but it's still players fighting players.
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Lala Ru
Gallente
Quasar Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.06 14:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: MacDuncan
Erm....why not simply shoot back w. the same T2 fitted BS?
If they are able to lock/fire @ that range, you should be also able to do so in a proper fitted fleet BS! And....you can also kill a ship with the same 2 salvos IF your leader is good enough to give you a target call...
Hence the opening line: "No choices with long-range battles" You have to fight at long range as well.
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Eternal Fury
Caldari
Brotherhood of Light
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Posted - 2006.09.06 14:32:00 -
[19]
The solution is somethign that I don't think we'll ever see happen.
Around moons, planets, stations, POS's, gates and asteroid belts, there needs to be a Warp limit, where if you are within a certain distance from that large object, you cannot warp.
You see warp limits like this in many movies/novels.
For EvE, this would force people to worry about how fast their ships are.
For an asteroid belt for example, you would have a distance of 150km from the belts nav bouy. If you were inside that distance, you wouldn't be able to warp. But people warping IN, would appear at 150 KM's.
What you would also have to do is HALF range on weapons. Yes, at LEAST halve, if not cut it by 66%.
This would mean that warfare in EvE would actually have to worry about manouvering. Tacklers would have a real job. BS's may be the big boys damage wise, but it would take them time to get into range.
Unfortunately, this WOULD slow down travel in the game, which isn't a good thing, but it WOULD increase the time it takes to kill someone.
example.
You're standard gate camp.
You have a sphere 150KM around the gate where if you are in side it you can't warp in/out.
So you warp in, and you see the gate camp. Or maybe not, becuase then Cloaking devices would be a REAL nessesity . you see the camp so you warp away. Grab a bunch of friends, and warp back in.
Gate campers go  and start to move away from you. you're battleships move in at 300m/s(maybe 600 or so with a MWD) and your tacklers spring into action.
tacklers are slowly being taken out... POP there goes one...The warp limit is closer.. only 30 KM's to go... POP there goes another.. a few more and we might get away.. 25km's... POP another tackler.. Then BLAM.. you realise that the BS's that warped in are in range. NOW the real fighting begins.
Will the attackers be able to kill the campers before they reach the limit? POP there goes another tackler.. they have a chance... But wait.. what's that... decloaking infront of the campers exit vector.. it's... 4 HAC's.. who warped in from the opposite side, and cloaked as they came in.. Campers are deperate now. They're focusing fire on the tacklers.. their's only 1 left for each camper... POP... Another tackler.. BLAM! there goes teh first Camper. His Armageddon just died...POP the Megathrons Tackler is gone.. he MWD's off and warps away. One Camper left. The Apoc is slow.. especially with a webber on it. The HAC's are almost in range, the attackers BS's are almost in range, and he's 10KM's from the warp limit.. POP there goes his talker.. He's FREE.. He SURGES to 170m/s... then goes to kick in the MWD... and remembers he took it off for that extra webber.. SONOVA.. whamwhampewpew... he's now in range of the BS's behind him.. and just about in range of the HACs in front..
Everyone starts pounding on the Camper Apoc.. will he make it. He's not wasteing any cap on weapons, he's tanking for all he's worth. Both Reppers going, cap booster cycleing as fast as possible. Theres the limit. 5km... armor at 40%.. 4km.. armor at 30%.. 3km armor at 20% COMONE YOU POS FASTER 2km armor at 5%...1km... half stucture... boooomm....
Well, after that mini novel, you'll never see this kind of combat, in eve, as it'd require a whole reworking of the ships stats and how game mechanics work..
I can dream though.
Brotherhood of Light. Small Corp, Big Fun. Wanna join? |
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