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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 17478	Posted - 2014.12.10 23:13:31 - [1] - Quote [quote=Sol Project]Sol says Hi. [quote] Hi Sol, and yes.. <--- corbexx I think this would be an interesting conversation to have with Karkur and others. I hope you find enthusiastic intelligent people who will join you in TS. I'm quite sure I don't fit the bill, since it would be terrible to impose my wonky taste on others but a soundcloud of the proceedings for those of us following this development would be nice. <3 Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 17512	Posted - 2014.12.11 01:14:02 - [2] - Quote I have started a categorized list of requests as seen in this thread and others in GD, F&I, Sisi forum and others. I'm still adding things in and will continue to edit it up until the meeting with CCP. It is in read-only mode. I think mass editing would be chaotic at the moment, but if everyone prefers I can open it up. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Nv6ejrTCbdmRpd07Yt09LZIJFpHxE1qhwgHZPy1O7Sk/edit?usp=sharing Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 17535	Posted - 2014.12.11 04:58:31 - [3] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: When are you announcing your CSM candidacy? Very funny, but I don't have any qualifications. The doc has been updated with all of the threads I could find, including this one (they are all mentioned under "References"). If you think I don't have something included, point me to the thread or put it in a reply. There is a category for each body part, a CC section, bugfixes, etc. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Nv6ejrTCbdmRpd07Yt09LZIJFpHxE1qhwgHZPy1O7Sk/edit?usp=sharing Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 17638	Posted - 2014.12.11 13:50:25 - [4] - Quote Doc updated with posts in the last two pages: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Nv6ejrTCbdmRpd07Yt09LZIJFpHxE1qhwgHZPy1O7Sk/edit?usp=sharing Also, the doc is now a form that anyone can vote on. Google login not necessary. I've limited the votes for 3 in some sections so that people can be more focused in what they request. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GaVlWA3HByPcvsCu-sqW_x35A7VWtICg_N_wWo_felA/viewform?usp=send_form Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 17642	Posted - 2014.12.11 15:47:36 - [5] - Quote Samira Kernher wrote: Voted. I don't suppose headwraps/headscarves could be added to the headwear options? (things like veils, detached hoods, hijabs, etc). Those would be great, especially as Amarr-themed items (as they are a hood culture judging by all the artwork that shows Amarr of both sexes frequently in hoods, and the old Ni-kunni veils). Rose colored glasses (under head) and your request (under hats) has been added, thanks. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 17643	Posted - 2014.12.11 16:00:43 - [6] - Quote Sol Project wrote: Call me a Debby Downer if you want to, but I don't see the point of this, unless you advertise big and gather a few thousand votes. :/ I think it always helps to have a structured discussion, so knowing what's been suggested in the past will help you and others attending to prioritize what to talk about with the CCP devs. The poll could be a long term sounding board for the playerbase to express to CCP (and their player representatives) what they are interested in for portraits and avatar customization. Edit: I am working on visual metrics for the results.. Do you have any suggestions on how it could be better advertised? I know you're pretty good at this sort of thing.. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 17739	Posted - 2014.12.11 19:53:13 - [7] - Quote Sol Project wrote: TL;DR: Even if thousands of people cast votes, add a gazillion ideas about what they want and CCP simply works through the list from top to bottom ... ... in the end it's not a good way of helping CCP making money ... ... and it's pretty much a huge waste of devtime anyway. If you look at the results with 40+ respondents you already see some patterns emerging. I believe the list does the opposite of what you are saying. It bounds the conversation to a limited requested list, and since I've limited respondents to only choose 3 options in any category it also focuses their feedback to items that are most important to them. I think it's better than trying to generate talking points out of thin air.. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 17739	Posted - 2014.12.11 19:57:20 - [8] - Quote And no one is saying the TS needs to include anything from the poll. The people dialing in can choose to talk about whatever they want. I'm just providing data. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 17775	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:17:17 - [9] - Quote Made updates to the the poll (if you haven't voted, go vote now!). Also, 60 respondents! Not too shabby for a few hours. We still have a couple days yet. Beards really, really, really seem to have pulled forward, considered they were a late entry. Azda: I think your Tank Girl suggestions falls under military outfits. I already have the classic EVE looks covered in the options. Bagrat and Kel Kun: I think everything you've mentioned is present. John Dekker: added button-down suits or tuxedos. I think the "picture book" idea is probably better off in an F&I thread of its own. What do you think? Dersen Lowery: Added NES store preview enhancement as a request Wedrika: Fingerless gloves already on list, thanks! Unezka: Added tattoos idea to list. I think medals/patches as accessories covers the patchy jacket. Beards and long hair for men already on list. Dan: Destructible clothing already on list. Go vote for it! Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 18346	Posted - 2014.12.12 22:53:18 - [10] - Quote Clutter is a natural state for data. There is no such thing as too much data. In a day or so I'll post some thoughts on what the trends seem to be for the poll. Obligatory link to the poll (go take it!) And link to data from respondents. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 18419	Posted - 2014.12.13 06:07:33 - [11] - Quote Badel: Added rings and dogtags (under necklaces). Rest of your ideas are already in the poll. Cosmic Girl96: Nipples goes more or less against CCP's design philosophy that we've seen.. Sol: Added chokers. Rain More detailed textures are in the poll. Is that what you meant? Updated both the doc and the poll Results with 80 respondents \o/ Keep at it guys. I think this will be helpful to Mr. corbexx and the player attendees <3 Some data aggregation in a day or so to bring some order to chaos. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 18752	Posted - 2014.12.15 01:19:54 - [12] - Quote This is what I see in the poll (take the poll if you haven't already done so!!). Before I start, this one is a no-brainer. Mike Azariah mentioned he might be driving it. Unlock all racial clothing. Charge AUR for it, if you want to! If we were to ask CCP for 3 things: More facial articulation and expressions Better facial hair for males, and better hair for females and males Clothing and accessories that clearly show what a pilot does in EVE (piracy, run fleets that give out medals, military outfits, etc.) If we were to ask CCP for 5 things: The 3 things above, plus.. Less GAP, more classic EVE. Instead of looking like fashion models give us more sci-fi-y things. More combat-y and guy-like stuff for females (combat boots, body armor, helmets, etc.) More accessories (wetware, implants, masks, earrings, necklaces, cigarettes).. especially things that can easily be shown on a portrait (think: neck and above). Things I excluded, and why: Unlock unreleased clothing on SiSi and CCP ads - it is my perception that CCP wants to retain clothing for marketing promotion reasons Racial blending - if this were feasible from an engineering standpoint, I feel that they would have done it already Stuff for the hands and wrists (wristwatches, rings, gloves). We have no good way of showing them in portraits, and they would be barely noticeable in the 3d view. Something would have to fundamentally change about portraits to make the ROI on working on these substantial. How do you guys interpret the poll results? Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 18979	Posted - 2014.12.15 06:01:37 - [13] - Quote Thanks Celeste. I appreciate your observations. I hope corbexx will check them out, too. Xindi, I think the discussion will happen in less than a day so maybe it's a bit too late to change the poll drastically now. I hope it helps you in your discussion. I'd like to ensure we have a mechanism to collect this kind of feedback for this particular aspect of EVE long term (beyond just this meeting). If you'd like to share your ideas please drop me an email, or reply here. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 19217	Posted - 2014.12.16 17:43:24 - [14] - Quote Hi guys, I'm sorry I missed the discussion. I was on a flight at the time. It is interesting, I could recognize a few voices on the soundcloud recording just by what they said and how they said it (Rain, Kate cough). EVE really is a game of people.. and I find myself attached to the people as much as to the game. I wrote up a summary as I listened to the recording. If I am misunderstanding something, or have made an error please post a reply and I will correct it, thanks! Attendees: mike. corbexx, Carm, Rain, Kate, Makoto, Dersen, CCP Terminus (did I forget anyone?) CCP roles CCP Terminus: Populates NES with entries, NES backend, implements apparel, general game improvements and growth CCP Undoz: Character artist, character asset modeling and integration, veteran of CC, trailers, game assets like space station interiors CCP Edgeloop: On Undoz's team and creates/builds character assets and "shiny stuff" CCP Karkur: Fixer of defects, a legend Key Takeaways This is what I took away from the meeting. Appreciate everyone's feedback here. Expanding color palettes and releasing old, unreleased clothing items may be an interesting, low effort next step to look into for CCP CCP is interested in clothing for scientists/engineers and more cyberpunk/classic EVE style. No promises made for future. Player requests for clothing is better off sticking within CCP's design choices and limitations (see below) CCP is satisfied with the interest shown in character creation and avatar customization. Women's Eternity and Men's Gurista outfits have been doing well. Main discussion CCP does browse forums and reddit and are generally aware of what players want CCP has ~2 engineers working full time on the design for this portion of EVE. When we make requests as players we should keep this in mind. Expanding the color palette (hair, clothing) is likely a low hanging fruit which could be implemented. There may be (color-grouped) color swatch options for clothing in the future. Releasing unreleased clothing on SiSi could also be another low hanging fruit. Sibyyl's note: SiSi has about 2-3x the color/pattern variants that TQ has. I don't think Rain made this very clear. Unlocking racial clothes could be another low hanging fruit, barring effort to solve clipping issues. CCP would like to explore options where players have to access LP stores or gain standings to get access to these clothes. Adding backgrounds could be a low hanging fruit. Revamping lighting positioning or color-grading/filters on portraits may be possible. CCP would like to explore ways in which clothes can be further integrated into the rest of EVE (such as LP stores, standings, drops, etc.). CCP fully understands the feedback for more/better hair. Hair is very time intensive to implement and this will be a hurdle for more hairstyles. CCP does understand that more hairstyles will let characters differentiate from each other. CCP gets the feedback that players liked the classic EVE styles. Also like the idea of armor, cyberpunk, etc. CCP agrees with feedback on labcoats/scientist/engineer type clothing. CCP is thinking of doing something like hangar engineers wear in BSG. CCP has no plans to import Valkyrie or DUST clothing. It would be a lot of work to convert it. CCP mentioned racial blending would be cool, but did not mention any plans. CCP has no interest in rebooting Incarna/WiS and has no plans for it. CCP is not ready for performance/asset generation work. mike: WiS would need a better function in the game than just "emoting at people". There may be a path from DUST/Legion being successful (5-8 year window). CCP employees took the poll (yay!) Interesting tidbit: the same fellow responsible for making the monocle also had to destroy the Jita monument CCP design choices and technical limitations In Karkur's words, "classy" and representative of EVE lore which is futuristic and dark. This excludes things such as bunny ears or pirate hats. CCP wants to protect the image of EVE. With a small design team, choices will be made to design more iconic/"special" clothing, or clothing that fits one extreme or the other since all clothing choices can't be met. For example, jackets will look like they are elaborate/formal dressup or heavy military type. Designing something that falls towards the middle, like a winter coat, is maybe not feasible with limited team size. Same reason as above, the pirate outfits or gunner jackets have the same base model because it is easier to implement for CCP. Making elaborate race/faction specific base models may be out of scope for the current team size. CCP is very interested in managing clutter in CC/NES/database so as not to overwhelm new players. With more and more assets some engineering changes will need to be made (ie: bundles in NES) before CC/NES is filled with more and more entries. One idea was to collapse color variants into a single entry (note: separate colors would still be purchased one by one) Some clothes, especially outerwear may not be as form fitting because they have to account for a lot of clothing combinations, including innerwear items. Poses will require animators and will be a bit complicated for now. Head items have to include a static hairstyle because designing around different hairstyles is outside of CCP's team bandwidth. Alliance and corp logos in portrait (filling the background) are being handled in a different manner. Will be part of adding logos to ships, etc. effort. Physics model (like Amarr robe for men). This is very problematic and CCP would like to avoid this. Unzipping and rolling up sleeves may be out of scope (model would need to be designed twice). Tucking options and provided for now. Continued below.. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 19217	Posted - 2014.12.16 17:44:42 - [15] - Quote CCP design choices and technical limitations (continued) Limit the number of factions to narrow design scope. Can't provide an option for every NPC corp and faction. Discussion on specific apparel Rain: Some Sterling shirts are unavailable. Are they locked in some high tier FW store? No. corbexx: Rose colored glasses. CCP will look into it. Kate: Pirate faction dresses look like character is pregnant. CCP response: We don't think it looks that bad, and outerwear has to account for clothing underneath. Carmen: Collision for hair is inaccurate, we see clipping. CCP response: Can't make the collision boxes smaller due to performance reasons. Carmen: Clipping on Sterling dresses for Gallente characters. CCP response: fixed! Carmen: Can we enable antialiasing in 3d view of character? Karkur: We may have had it disabled for performance reasons. We can look into it. Makoto: What about multi-color hair dyes, frosted tips, etc. No CCP comment on this. Personal comment: Some of this may not fit within EVE's style, too. Dersen: Can we fix smiles? CCP animation team was not on call to respond. Kate: Can we get clothing with less prominent logos? CCP response: We have logoless jackets, unreleased. Kate: Shoes without heels for women possible? CCP response: We have normal shoes on Gallente. We just didn't design these shoes. Will be considering them. Male shoes that are not boots? Attendees moved on and there was no response. Rain: Can we copy character looks, maybe through a NES certificate? CCP response: Not sure this is a high priority. Kate: Character was made earlier, but the skin tone is no longer available. CCP response: We had to get rid of some tones when all races were given skin tone variation. We tried to have a wide range of skin tones. Jade Blackwind wrote: Also, Sibyyl for CSM. I love you too, Jade <3 As I am borrowing someone's internet to be here, I have to run! Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 19869	Posted - 2014.12.19 00:45:01 - [16] - Quote I think I agree with Karkur and Indah here. It does not remind me in any way of a pregnancy. The apparel has overlapping hems like a suit of plate armor might, and in certain angles it looks like it is protruding when what you are seeing are the the very edges of the hems sticking out. Doesn't look bloated to me, it looks durable and has a unique shape. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 20031	Posted - 2014.12.19 12:35:34 - [17] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: I'm not saying V shapes in the crotch would be a good thing either. Like sibyyl's example of armor that stops at the rib cage, I think the outlaw jacket should too. ... The coat is bad, your opinion is bad, and you should feel bad. If there's one thing you should have walked away with from the meeting, it is an appreciation for how constrained the design resources are for this aspect of the game. It's 2 people, for male and female designs. Two. That is it. And these guys appear to be doing all the backend work too. It doesn't seem like the way in which you are expressing your opinion is a very good thing. I would like to avoid a communication style that is comparing the work of two obviously very overloaded design guys with "horses asses" and things like that. Do you really want these guys to fix a problem that only yourself and Kate seem to have such an issue with (I've yet to see another person with this opinion), or would you rather they work on other things? I'm surprised I have to explain this to you. Our requests should ultimately constitute of very short lists and be laser focused on things we want the most that fit CCP's design philosophy. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 20545	Posted - 2014.12.20 01:09:00 - [18] - Quote So you decided to take a conversation where CCP was gracious enough to provide insight into their current bandwidth and capabilities, and you turned it into an Incarna rant? The unfortunate thing about this is that I know you realize, as much as I do, that your rant will accomplish nothing. Character Creator is an aspect of the game that exists and CCP is actively building on it and cautiously optimistic about it. If you don't think they are optimistic enough, then build a platform for feedback to CCP that would drive them to rethink their CC design headcount. If you have better ideas for design, then provide them without going on a diatribe about how poor of a job the designers are doing. And it goes without saying, put the Incarna rant to rest and instead concentrate your energy on the so-called low hanging fruit. You are wasting your energy otherwise, you really are. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 21763	Posted - 2014.12.22 14:40:33 - [19] - Quote Should I take a crack at making something actionable out of the tail end of the thread? Seems like a lot of discussion and debate is at eventual risk of falling into the proverbial black hole.. I think a long term CC/portrait feature list aggregator would be a nice platform for CSM/CCP discussions. What do you guys think? Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 21831	Posted - 2014.12.22 16:41:49 - [20] - Quote Ok, if you want to take a crack at it, let us know how we can help you. Thanks. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22071	Posted - 2014.12.23 05:10:36 - [21] - Quote Sol Project wrote: Sibyyl wrote: Ok, if you want to take a crack at it, let us know how we can help you. Thanks. Tbh ... you had the idea ... ... so what do you have in mind? I don't want to say another poll. I think it would be useful to have something more focused so that we can all flesh out some more specific ideas, instead of splashing paint on a wall. Whatever it is also needs to account for our rather diverse tastes as well. I have to think about it.. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22071	Posted - 2014.12.23 05:11:28 - [22] - Quote Seven Koskanaiken wrote: Chains, necklaces, dogtags, etc.. If not mentioned already. Yep, these ideas were included in the discussion corbexx organized.. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go

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