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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4666
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Posted - 2014.12.18 14:57:04 -
[1] - Quote
Hello again o/
Finally, finally, Recons. I know you guys have been asking for a long time now so even though timing was pretty tight with vacations coming up I want to get this class in for January.
We had a few big goals with Recons:
Give Combat Recons something to make them stand out as a unique and interesting set of ships
Close the gap somewhat between Recons and T3 Cruisers, though this will also be a goal during the T3 Cruiser rebalance
Align Recons around ship developer trends established in other classes (Roden Lachesis should not use missiles for example)
Address any other general balance issues or pain points (hello Pilgrim)
Those goals lead us to the following major changes:
Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners
All eight Recons will have their resist profiles brought up to Heavy Assault Cruiser level
All eight Recons will have the capacitor cost of warping reduced by roughly half
Where appropriate, bonuses will be adjusted to match ship developer trends
All eight Recons are having their capacitor pool and capacitor regeneration buffed (roughly 20% increase in cap regen)
The average maximum velocity across the class is going up by around 20m/s
We hope in the end we have a more attractive class of ship overall and some exciting new ways to use Combat Recons. That said, there are still some issues we hoped to address before rebalancing this class, such as ECM, which simply weren't happening fast enough. We still feel good about making improvements to this class now and look forward to hearing what you guys have to say about it.
Here's the gritty stuff:
PILGRIM
We decided that the Pilgrim really needed Nos/Neut range, rather than strength, to give it the engagement flexibility that other Recons enjoy.
Role Bonus:
80% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator liquid ozone consumption
50% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator duration
GÇó Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device and Covert Cynosural Field Generator
GÇó Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds
Amarr Cruiser Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to strength of tracking disruptors
10% bonus to drone damage and hp
Recon Ships Bonuses:
40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer range (was 20% nos/neut strength)
20% reduction in Cloaking Devices CPU requirement
Slot layout: 4H, 5M, 5L; 3 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1000 PWG(+50), 370 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 850(+62) / 1800 / 1050(+178)
Capacitor (amount / capacitor per second) : 1450(+190) / 4.39/s (+.75)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / align time): 198(+34) / .61(-.1) / 9.61s(-1.57s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 150
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 104km / 237 / 8(+1)
Sensor strength: 26(+2) Radar
Signature radius: 155(-1)
CURSE
Role Bonus:
Cannot be detected by directional scanners
Amarr Cruiser Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damagere
Recon Ships Bonuses:
40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer range
20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount
Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 5L; 2 turrets, 4 launchers
Fittings: 900 PWG, 380 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1650(-187) / 1650 / 1075(+203)
Capacitor (amount / capacitor per second) : 1470(+220) / 4.46/s (+.83)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / align time): 205(+30) / .61(-.04) / 9.99s(-.66s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 150
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 130km / 281 / 10
Sensor strength: 28 Radar
Signature radius: 150
FALCON
Role Bonus:
80% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator liquid ozone consumption
50% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator duration
GÇó Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device and Covert Cynosural Field Generator
GÇó Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds
Caldari Cruiser Bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer activation cost
Recon Ships Bonuses:
30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
20% reduction in Cloaking Devices CPU requirement
Slot layout: 4H, 7M, 3L; 3 turrets, 1 launchers
Fittings: 700 PWG, 380 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1750(+147) / 940(-16) / 945(+204)
Capacitor (amount / capacitor per second) : 1190(+96.25) / 3.7/s (+.52)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / align time): 192(+23) / .64(+.09) / 10.85s(+1.67s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 120km / 220 / 8(+1)
Sensor strength: 28 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 180
ROOK
Role Bonus:
Cannot be detected by directional scanners
Caldari Cruiser Bonuses:
5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire
10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer activation cost
Recon Ships Bonuses:
30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
10% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile max velocity
Slot layout: 5H, 7M, 3L; 2 turrets, 5 launchers
Fittings: 600 PWG, 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2050(+262) / 965(+9) / 960(+359)
Capacitor (amount / capacitor per second) : 1250(+187) / 3.93/s(+.83)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / align time): 194(+24) / .61 / 10.76s(-.04s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 150km / 259 / 10
Sensor strength: 32 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 175(+2)
ARAZU
Role Bonus:
80% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator liquid ozone consumption
50% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator duration
GÇó Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device and Covert Cynosural Field Generator
GÇó Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds
Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness
Recon Ships Bonuses:
20% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor optimal range
20% reduction in Cloaking Devices CPU requirement
Slot layout: 4H, 6M, 64L; 3 turrets, 1 launchers
Fittings: 750 PWG, 420 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1180(+55) / 1430(+136) / 1080(+208)
Capacitor (amount / capac...
@ccp_rise
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4666
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Posted - 2014.12.18 14:57:43 -
[2] - Quote
Hopefully no typos or weirdnesses but its always possible so just let me know if something looks funny.
@ccp_rise
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4678
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Posted - 2014.12.18 15:49:20 -
[3] - Quote
Okay some bad typos there sorry. Slot layout on Curse and Huginn were both messed up, fixed that. Added sig radius to Huginn. Fixed typo in Curse damage bonus.
@ccp_rise
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4690
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Posted - 2014.12.18 16:51:18 -
[4] - Quote
Appreciate all the discussion. The work day is ending here so I'll let this continue tonight and talk over the feedback with my colleagues in the morning and then get back to you with responses to specific issues.
Thanks
@ccp_rise
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4725
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Posted - 2014.12.19 11:15:14 -
[5] - Quote
Just finished reading everything that was posted over night. Here's what I can update with at the moment:
Biggest concern at the moment is the added EHP. Making recons a more realistic fleet option next to T3 cruisers is good, making them too tanky in smaller situations where their ewar already gives them a lot of damage evasion may be too much. Not sure if change is needed but will keep looking at this and update again asap.
Dscan immunity is staying. We understand a lot of the concerns raised, but for most of them you guys are doing a great job making strong counter-arguments and I think it will be very interesting to see how this mechanic plays out on TQ. I want to put together a lengthier post soon with more explanation for this mechanic and why we feel comfortable with it, but you will have to wait a bit longer for that.
The Pilgrim. Opinions seem mixed, gaining neut range is obviously nice but many of you still feel that giving up neut strength is too harsh, or that some other added power is needed (more damage for instance). Will get back to you on this as soon as possible but it's possible that we will make adjustments.
RLML for Rook. Sure. Consider it done.
More low slots for Lachesis. Not sure yet on this one, will talk it over here and see what we can do.
Hope that answers some questions. I'm sure many of you would rather have more explanation for the dscan immunity change so I'll try to get that post together as soon as I can.
Thanks for all the feedback.
@ccp_rise
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4727
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Posted - 2014.12.19 11:37:52 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:
I can tell you what will happen most likely:
- Less fights because people are risk averse
- A 2nd account with a Prober at all times will be must, not an option.
I think this is a complex debate and I'm sure that none of us understand player behavior completely, but my experience is actually the opposite of what you're saying.
Yes, people are risk averse, they want to make good decisions when they're taking risks and that often leads being conservative. That's exactly why I like this kind of mechanic. People want to do the fun thing and take more engagements, but when they have enough information to know that they aren't the favorite they shy away from fighting. However, when some information is obscured they become optimistic and take more risks. I've seen players so willing to make decisions that are likely too risky simply because they lack perfect information. Jumping into gate camps where positional information isn't guaranteed, engaging on stations with people docked, fighting in systems with more in local than can be accounted for, etc. These mechanics that obscure information give people the excuses needed to take risks. Take the example given somewhere in this thread of a low sec camp with 2 Vexors and 2 Rooks. Before these changes, the gang considering fighting them never would because they know they can't deal with the Rooks. After, they won't see them and so they will probably engage. That's more fights because people are risk averse.
The negative side for me is your other bullet point. Because people don't want to take unnecessary risk they will work very hard, sometimes doing something very boring or difficult, just to get at those last pieces of information. And they should. But we would want to avoid mechanics that obligate people to this kind of behavior too heavily without enough positive side to make the mechanic worthwhile.
I would be more worried with this mechanic that people have to spend a lot of time running probe scans when they really don't want to be than that they are avoiding engagements because of the possibility of Recons. I don't think this will be a problem but we'll have to wait and see.
@ccp_rise
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4786
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Posted - 2014.12.22 13:52:35 -
[7] - Quote
Monday update - I'm working on a revised proposal but it's a bit slow going with everyone but me out of the office to visit their families (boring). Hopefully some new stuff for you guys soon.
@ccp_rise
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4798
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Posted - 2014.12.23 14:56:38 -
[8] - Quote
Okay, first major update just edited into the OP.
Major changes:
We're going to go with a lighter resist profile than originally described, setting all eight recons at the former combat recon resist profile. While we still like the goal of making them more fleet viable, their tank was one of their only stand-out weaknesses and we felt that removing it could make them oppressive at smaller scales. To compensate somewhat we've trimmed 5 more sig radius of each ship.
With the Pilgrim we decided to split the difference between neut range and strength by wrapping both into one bonus. The amounts will be smaller than either of the singular bonuses but this should do a nice job of giving more engagement range flexibility while still allowing for plenty of cap pressure.
We are going to move one high slot on the Lachesis to a low slot, making armor slightly more viable while still preserving room in the mids for damps as well as long range warp disruption. The damage potential for the Lach is still on par with other combat recons even without the fifth high so we feel this fits better than giving up a mid.
The Rook is getting a little more PG fitting room and trading the 5% HAM/HML rate of fire bonus for a 7.5% kinetic missile damage bonus. This is typical Kaalakiota bonus, gives the same number of effective launchers, and favors RLML over the rate of fire bonus.
Finally, I will say again that the directional scan immunity is staying, though we are very aware of concerns (especially concerning FW site abuse) and will watch closely to see how this new capability is used and make any necessary adjustments.
Have a great Christmas o/
@ccp_rise
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4798
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Posted - 2014.12.23 15:17:54 -
[9] - Quote
We are disappointed too with having to pull back the resists for fleets. These ships just need that drawback to balance them at smaller scales where they are more likely to get used anyway.
We have T3 rebalance, black ops rebalance, and potential ewar module changes on the horizon to help address this as well.
@ccp_rise
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4810
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Posted - 2014.12.23 16:13:52 -
[10] - Quote
Equto wrote:CCP Rise is the shield amount on the curse a typo? you say its going down by 187 to 1650 but the curse currently only has 1238 shields, that would be a massive increase not a decrease
Sorry, yes. 1650 was the armor amount and it got pasted twice :( Fixed now.
@ccp_rise
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