| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9145
   |
Posted - 2014.12.19 14:52:18 -
[1] - Quote
Boltorano wrote:You've basically made scout alts mandatory for "solo" complex runners. Thanks so much. 
This is not true. You can still see probes on scan.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9145
|
Posted - 2014.12.19 14:59:20 -
[2] - Quote
Varrakk wrote:Pilgrim:
Range and Strength will be too powerful. Would take away what is unique with the Curse.
+1 Mid or Low slot, and the CPU(PG) to make use of it would be a sufficient boost to the Pilgrim.
DScan immunity for Combat Recons, very cool approach!
+1
I've always said that Combat Recons need some kind of special ability. D-scan immunity is many times less powerful than being able to warp cloaked while giving Combat Recons something special
Well done CCP. Side note, ima find a way to rat in null sec with Curses and Rooks now.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9145
|
Posted - 2014.12.19 15:01:31 -
[3] - Quote
Blobskillz McBlub wrote:logic never worked on Rize
the example he gave works maybe one time after that people will be even more risk averse
Getting all snarky and butthurt at the guy making a change is a surefire and foolproof way to get him to change his mind!
Well done.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9159
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 15:37:51 -
[4] - Quote
Yahrr wrote:I like how people think that the d-scan immunity will help them when ratting in an anomaly.
So you can't think far enough ahead to see what people would do with a ratting recon I see.
In many systems, anomalies spawn in certain areas reliably. So, find a crap one, kill some ships, and BOOM every time you do another (good) anomaly, there are wrecks on scan... in multiple places. You don't even need to do that much as anoms tend to spawn near planets, if that planet has belts, just go clear the belts and wrecks on scan (most pvprs don't know that belt rats ar different from anom rats).
And after you have been at it a while, there are wrecks all over anyways and they last for a couple hours. D-scan immunity and the fact that these 'ratting recons' can mount some 'gtfo ewar' will partially compensate for the slightly lower overall dps you can squeeze out of one of these new recons compared to proper hacs. The Curse will actually be king of the Ratting Recons because energy neuts slash an npcs 'chance to boost', making them more squishy (again compensating for the lower general dps).
If you can't see how this is going to be awesome, you have to blind.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9160
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 16:13:45 -
[5] - Quote
Niskin wrote:People are freaking out in here like Combat Recons have been rebalanced to be Carriers with 5 Ishtars glued to them that just got d-scan immunity. Get a grip.
If I'm in a wormhole combat site in a Drake and a solo Recon shows up, I'd call that an even fight, since I'm probably tanking sleepers too. If he has friends coming then I'm probably screwed.
If I'm in a wormhole combat site in a Drake and a T3 cruiser shows up, I'm dead, probably before his friends even get there, assuming he even bothered to bring any.
Not to mention that in both of these situations I have an escape option if they didn't pack a scram. A max skilled Lachesis would kill that option, unless the pilot wasn't paying attention when my MMJD went off.
The bolded part is so funny I had to blod it again. It's one of those "it's funny becuase it's true" moments lol. CCP, why you don't let me like his post 1 million tmes huh? 
People just aren't taking current conditions into account at all. It's like they are saying "OMG, now I will get tackled by a Curse I didn't see on D-scan (but could have seen if I had combat probes out) instead of the Pilgrim (that not even combat probes can pick up) that decloaked next to me, and that's terrible!!!"
I've seen some really nonsense thinking here in Features and Ideas (I wonder if all those guys who said the Navy Raven will be crap after losing it's RoF bonus and utility slot are still around to claim this lol), but this reaction to a change (d-scan immunity) that is inherently weaker than something that already exists (Covert Cloaks) is mind boggling. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9160
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 16:15:20 -
[6] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Another advocate of the changes to recon dscanning. Another guy who has barely ever pvp'd.
Hey look, another guy appealing to the authority of his killboard when killboards mean nothing (in pvp or otherwise). |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9161
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 16:31:23 -
[7] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
But hey, keep playing the killboard game like it means anything.
It's actually good, because in this forum section, having to fall back on killboard stats is the same as throwing an insult in other sections: It means that the poster knows he's wrong deep down and has to shore up his own confidence in some way. People with sound, logical arguments don't have to try to diminish their debate opponents by challenging their 'credentials' because their arguments are engouh to overcome opposition all by themselves.
(who knew being a member of a high school debate club would come in handy 25,000 years in the future while flying space ships? )
You and I (and others, like Rise) know the truth here: Some who are reacting negatively to the change are being reasonable and have no horse in the race, BUT, many others are just people who have invested so much (too much) time in succeeding in the game by relying on and understanding and exploitationcurrent mechanics and this change threatens to knock them off the Throne of Elite PVP (or even pve if you listen to the wormhole people crying about d-scan immunity despite the fact that covert cloaking is way worse).
It is a mistake to invest to heavily in learning the status quo to succeed in a game that has to be about change and redirection to survive. I don't like change just for change's sake, but I understand that good change is a good thing.
We can debate whether HAC resists + d-scan immunity is too much, but claiming that d-scan immunty is the end of the world and the comming of Recons Online is just the same hurf-blerf we always see what a players 'special interest' is threatened. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9161
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 16:34:31 -
[8] - Quote
hellokittyonline wrote:Here let me break down your response from a solo PvPers perspective so maybe you'll better understand the attitude that we're ******* TIRED OF. CCP Rise wrote:Just finished reading everything that was posted over night. Here's what I can update with at the moment:
Biggest concern at the moment is the added EHP. Making recons a more realistic fleet option next to T3 cruisers is good, making them too tanky in smaller situations where their ewar already gives them a lot of damage evasion may be too much. Not sure if change is needed but will keep looking at this and update again asap.
Because Nullblobs CCP Rise [* wrote: Dscan immunity is staying. We understand a lot of the concerns raised, but for most of them you guys are doing a great job making strong counter-arguments and I think it will be very interesting to see how this mechanic plays out on TQ. I want to put together a lengthier post soon with more explanation for this mechanic and why we feel comfortable with it, but you will have to wait a bit longer for that. Because **** solo and small gang PvPers they're a small portion of the playerbase anyways. CCP Rise [* wrote: The Pilgrim. Opinions seem mixed, gaining neut range is obviously nice but many of you still feel that giving up neut strength is too harsh, or that some other added power is needed (more damage for instance). Will get back to you on this as soon as possible but it's possible that we will make adjustments.
. Because High-sec/Null-sec care-bear gankers.
You are aware that displaying irrational prejudice against something (ie, you over-use of the term 'nullblobs' which you use in every post) is a turn off and hurts your argument right? Because it outs you as so blatantly biased that your opinon thenmeans nothing.
Just wanted to make sure you knew lol. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9162
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 16:37:28 -
[9] - Quote
hellokittyonline wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:I am not sure why the dscan immunity is such a big deal. Instead of a Rapier, now i have a reason to fly a Hugin. What case does dscan change having a gang on a plex cloaked vers dscan immune? seriously whats the difference?
And in WHs who the hell is flying around without a cloakie. We just don't fly non cloaks most of the time. I sure as hell aren't going to waste time ratting sleepers in anything smaller than a t3. It would just be far too slow. Because if I warp to a medium with a slasher in it for a GF, all I have to do is wait a few seconds to know if there is a pilgrim on the other side because he has to decloak PRIOR to me arriving in the plex to be able to lock me. Furthermore, said pilgrim has to be 30km+ (outside of pointrange) away from the beacon to cloak.
So now you will have to be smarter, do something else, bring friends, and adapt.
No where does CCP say "you will be able to do the same thing the same way for ever". While not all change is good, some change has to happen for a game to stay vital and interesting. If having to change tactics pushes you out of your comfort zone, the problem isn't the change, it's the fact that you allowed yourself to have a comfort zone in a competative game in the 1st place. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9162
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 16:55:56 -
[10] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Not even close. I would just like to point out that i have Recon and literally everything else to 5 in spaceship command. Ill fly whatever works. The problems i see come from how at the moment i have risk things to get content. With these recon changes i can effortlessly scout myself around and pick off targets with minimal effort risk or skill and a far greater conversion rate since people will get far less of a chance to run.
This is different from covert cloaking with no cloak deatcivation penalty on locking how exactly? This is the point that defeats entirley what you say, covert cloaks are WORSE than d-scan immunity.
Quote:
Instead of putting words into peoples mouths you should really listen to what they say since it seems you have quite a lot to learn about debating (being unjustifiably patronising isnt winning), and about eve pvp too.
]
You do recall that is was YOU who started the ball rolling by trying to discredit people 'because killboard' right? No one is patronizing you, simply demonstrating why everythign you believe is measurably and demonstrably wrong.
I predict this will be just like the Faction Battleship rebalance thread where people claimed that the Navy raven would be useless (ended up being even more popular for the things it's used for) or the pirate ship rebalance where people claimed the Rattlesnake with it's 'super drones' would suck....which is why you see null alliance have RATTLESNAKE FLEETS now because null alliances always make fleet comps out of ships that suck lol.
I enjoyed the aftermaths of those discussions when reality proved the nay-sayers wrong (not that any of them ever admit it). I will enjoy the aftermath of this one when CCP implements this change, everything turns out fine and those of you so vocal in oppostion pretend like you never said anything  |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9162
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 17:07:30 -
[11] - Quote
hellokittyonline wrote:
So I shouldn't be able to play solo forever as a PvPer is that what you're saying? Or are you saying I shouldn't be able to actively look for fights as a solo PvPer and should be instead forced to sit in my own plex baiting to look for fights?
What I assume your saying is I shouldn't limit my fighting to plexes? Do you know what happens when you try to fight on a gate -10? Oh so I just need to not be -10? Then why even have it if there's no way to continue playing once you're there (obviously -10 characters are into PvP).
So low sec only has gates and plexes, it doesn't have moons, planets, a star and billions of kilometers of space between those things. Hell someone call CCP and tell them low sec is broken lol.
This post is an example of a person rationalizing why their comfort zone MUST exist. People do this to convince themselves that they don't need to adapt because "there is only one reasnable way anyways, so I can't adapt even if I wanted to".
D-scan immunity changes very little. It costs very little on many ships to lnclude a scan probe launcher that lets you detect ANY uncloaked ship.
If d-scan immunity is so dangerous, how then do you deal with covert cloaked ships for which not amount of combat probes will help you.
I think it was you who said that the cloaked ship has to decloak BEFORE you get in the plex, right? Well, if you have scan probes out where he can see them, nothing changes at all.
Hell, you don't even have to scan, jsut launching the probes andhainvg them out where a Combat Recon pilot can see them on d-scan would cause enough psycoligical unertainty to give you an advantage. You and others would be able to think of these things if you weren't too invested in the status quo.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9162
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 17:17:34 -
[12] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Pubquiz, which cov ops cloak has no deactivation delay. Im looking for a ship class and bonus points for telling me why on earth would i be bothered by one of them tackling me.
So you have yet to meet an ASB Stealth bomber that could hold you long enough for something else to decloak and kill you. Got it.
As i said, I get it, you don't like it. Tough for you, if history (of CCP and Rise) is the guide, this will happen. You choice is adapt or unsub.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9165
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 17:25:21 -
[13] - Quote
hellokittyonline wrote:
Are you blatantly not reading anything anyone is posting? Also its quite clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. First of all my algos/tristan/dessy/frig is not going to have the cpu for a probe launcher. Second what fights are going on at moons? None... or pos bashes... i'm not solo bashing a pos. And third the REASON that solo PvPers fight in plexes is not because that's all they know, it's because a plex has advantages for a solo player that open space does not (IE: you cannot warp to fleet mates outside or inside of a FW plex)
I should not have to have an alt to play "solo" in this game.
There it is. Talk to someone long enough, they will reveal the unreasonable sense of entitlement fueling their anger.
CCP never promised anyone they could play this game 100% the way they want to at all times. If they did, I'd be running incursions and C6 complexes solo lol. This is the actual truth of EVE, but if you want to 'solo', you still can, just figure out new ways to do it.
The fun part of games for well adjusted people is learning and doing new things and facing challenges (the fun part for maladjusted people is 'must win all the time'). What CCP is doing is going to be fun for lots of people. i'm sorry if you're not one of them but that's on you brother. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9165
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 17:34:24 -
[14] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Thats like me saying you think communism sucks because you are too invested in the status quo.
No, communism just sucks.
Some things are just bad ideas.
Ok, wat?
I'm not saying anything like that at all. The fact that you so strongly resist what I'm saying (and what CCP is doing to one ship class in introducing a mechanic that is measurable weaker than the existing mechainc of covert ops cloaks) demonstrates a deep investment in the status quo.
You claming that other posters beliefs are invalid due to their killboard stats (ie 'how succesful are you IN THE CURRENT STATUS QOU') is just another indicator lol.
Change happens. Not all of it is good, and ALL change has (good and bad) unintended consequneces. I generally don't like change. In this case, the change in question will add value to an underused ship class while only negatively affecting a very small subset of people who don't want to adapt (the people who adapt, like those who will incorporate scan probe launchers on their ships, will be fine).
That means that on-balance, most of the nay saying is just knee-jerk reactionary BS and CCP is safe (this time) to ignore it. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9169
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 17:39:20 -
[15] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote: fanboys .
1st of all, no one is telling anyone to not question something. You can question all you like. In this case, your questioning isn't questioning, it's pleading a case for not adding value to combat recon ships.
Just wanted to illustrate the word In quoted. It's irratating when people use that word on a forum you have to PAY (either in plex or cash) to be able to post on. Somehow, people who use that word use it to suggest that others are blindly following CCP....while those same posters are blindly PAYING CCP MONEY.
If you don't like CCP (or specific devs like Rise) why in hell are you continuing to give them money that they can use to further screw you over in the game they make lol?
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9169
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 17:43:50 -
[16] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Pubquiz, which cov ops cloak has no deactivation delay. Im looking for a ship class and bonus points for telling me why on earth would i be bothered by one of them tackling me.
So you have yet to meet an ASB Stealth bomber that could hold you long enough for something else to decloak and kill you. Got it. As i said, I get it, you don't like it. Tough for you, if history (of CCP and Rise) is the guide, this will happen. You choice is adapt or unsub. Thus Combat Recons Online.
Then bookmark this page. if that happens i'll come back here and say I was wrong.
Will you and the other take the same challenge? Sidenote, I offered the same challenge to the people in the Faction BS and Pirate ship reblance threads. Not.a.single.one has shown up to admit they were wrong yet, so i do't hold much hope here either. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9172
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 17:46:25 -
[17] - Quote
hellokittyonline wrote:
It's just a cop out because the argument I made was too strong and he/she has run out of ammunition due to his/her obvious lack of game knowledge.
If subbing another account is how I'm expected to "adapt" in this game then I'll see you in No Man's Sky.
ROFL, I bet you're one of those "No Man's Sky is gonna kill EVE" types too.
Sidenote, going to play a game you actually like (until the No Man's Sky Devs rebalance you out of your comfort zone that is) is a great way to adapt . |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9172
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 17:53:26 -
[18] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:You start an argument with someone then complain that they are arguing.
The denial and use of defense mechanisms is strong here. I wasn't the one who started the ball rolling by using a derogatory term (fanboy) or claiming that someone else's perspective was invlaid because of killboard stats. That, sir was you.
In any event, this is gonna happen, more so because knowing Rise as we do (and his penchant for sticking to his guns) postings like yours just helped solidify his position. Therefore, thank you Crosi for you help in making D-Scan immune combat recons a reality
Peace....out... |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9175
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 18:20:28 -
[19] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: lots of stuff Hows that worm fit with the combat probes coming along?
It came along fine once I installed a "I am not the only person flying" module ie a friend in a ship with combat probes.
Or did I miss the memo from CCP that said you can do everything you want with 1 frigate sized ship and be safe from advanced CRUISERS like Combat Recons? |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9175
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 18:25:35 -
[20] - Quote
maCH'EttE wrote:
I swear you must fly in large gangs, cuz your repetitive lip keeps saying, probes, probes, scouts, probes, probe scout, scout with combat probes, combat probes.
you must not have a clue on how small gangs or solo combat works. Some people dont have the luxory of flying in 20+ gangs with links/sout/logi/ecm.
wait let me guess, get a cloaky scout with probes.
Yo Kaarous, notice how these discussions always turn into the same thing whether is miniers whining about ganking or pvp'rs mad about the 'death of solo'? People don't want to have to cooperate with others to achieve their goals and blames CCP for not catering to their anti-social desires.
Funny thing is how those same people look down their noses at people who can actually cooperate with others (null "blobbers", CODE, the organized Wormhole groups, goons, Marmite, RvB etc etc) |
| |
|