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Binarii
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Posted - 2006.09.09 07:42:00 -
[1]
Because of what?
I'd like to fit target painters on my railboat but I hear that they are better used with missiles. Why is that?
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Andreask14
Sensus Numinis Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.09.09 07:49:00 -
[2]
Its because the damage that missiles do is dependant on transversal and sig radius of the target.
Thus, if you increase the sig radius of the target via painters, you will do more damage.
While with hybrids, you also have to factor in optimal range and tracking, so that even if the target is painted, your hit quality will suffer if your tracking is too low and/or the target is not in your optimal.
Nevertheless, painting will help battle ship size hybrids to hit cruiser targets for example.
Also, if your guns are only able to hit in their fall-off range, painting is the only method to increase your damage, as tracking and gun resolution arent important in fall off range.
Paointing is more usefull for missiles because it acts as a direct and un-counterable boost to missile damage when in range. The only counter would be to raise transversal by the amount of signature raised, which isnt possible for most ships.
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Kisari Njasil
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Posted - 2006.09.09 08:07:00 -
[3]
I find that painters are also useful for drones. Especially since it lets larger drones and sentries hit smaller targets better.
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Marine HK4861
Caldari Seoltachd
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Posted - 2006.09.09 08:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Andreask14 Its because the damage that missiles do is dependant on transversal and sig radius of the target.
Not transversal velocity, but just actual velocity.
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Binarii
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Posted - 2006.09.09 08:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Andreask14 Also, if your guns are only able to hit in their fall-off range, painting is the only method to increase your damage, as tracking and gun resolution arent important in fall off range.
Is this true? My 250mm will hit a 36m frig with full force in falloff?
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Reatu Krentor
Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2006.09.09 11:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Binarii
Originally by: Andreask14 Also, if your guns are only able to hit in their fall-off range, painting is the only method to increase your damage, as tracking and gun resolution arent important in fall off range.
Is this true? My 250mm will hit a 36m frig with full force in falloff?
no, tracking and gun resolution continue to matter in falloff. However because of the way they work in eve the more range you have the easier the target is to track(because the target's angular velocity goes down if transverse stays constant and range goes up) ... oh well Rabble rabble ra...(meh) |
Necromancer D
House Of Cards
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Posted - 2006.09.09 11:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Binarii
Originally by: Andreask14 Also, if your guns are only able to hit in their fall-off range, painting is the only method to increase your damage, as tracking and gun resolution arent important in fall off range.
Is this true? My 250mm will hit a 36m frig with full force in falloff?
Not sure, but I know it makes frigs a hell of alot easyer to hit, you can make a brutix into a very nasty sniper w/ a good painter and 6x 250mm rails and some t2 mag stabs. Insta -pop frigs from about 40-90 (depending on ammo type and skills)
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Mathias Orsen
Gold-dust
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Posted - 2006.09.09 11:22:00 -
[8]
Using a tracking disruptor on my blasterthron against NPC BS made a very noticable increase to the damage i dealt... other than that i have not use them much... it does do a good job of changing normal hits into excellent or well aimed hits. ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get" |
Swamp Ziro
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.09 11:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mathias Orsen Using a tracking disruptor on my blasterthron against NPC BS made a very noticable increase to the damage i dealt... other than that i have not use them much... it does do a good job of changing normal hits into excellent or well aimed hits.
Pardon me?
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.09.09 11:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Andreask14
as tracking ..... arent important in fall off range.
Id like some verification.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Mad Medicine
Sacred Dark
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Posted - 2006.09.09 15:14:00 -
[11]
I found out with drones, it sometimes helps more than fitting a webber to take out inty npcs in missions like human cattle, with a webber i had to struggle turning it on and off, to get my target at the right speed for my drones to hit most effectively. With a target painter, they just hit them better.
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Peter Stuyvesant
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.09.09 15:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Andreask14
as tracking ..... arent important in fall off range.
Id like some verification.
Tracking and sig res still have an effect in falloff. Read me.
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Alessar Kaldorei
Caldari Free Space Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.09 15:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Andreask14
as tracking ..... arent important in fall off range.
Id like some verification.
Because of how guns work, it's not transversal that is a problem, but actually angular velocity. Angular velocity is transversal velocity divided by range. That gives you a number in rad/s, which is the unit of measure you see in your guns' tracking attribute.
So, the greater the range, the lower angular velocity is. Once angular velocity is lower than your guns' tracking, you don't miss due to tracking. If your guns tracking is 0.01, then at 10km, the max transversal you can hit is 0.01rad/s x 10000m = 100 m/s (aprox). The farther from the target you get, the higher transversal is needed to be a problem. The same gun, at 50km will be able to hit a transversal of 500m/s.
Most guns' tracking is such that at fall-off range they can ussualy hit their own sized ships easily. The problem, of course, is that once in fall-off range, you start missing due to range, not transversal.
However, there's a third variable in play, target signature and gun resolution.
If your guns' resolution is larger than your target's signature, you'll miss because of that too. However, target painters increase target's signature, meaning you'll be able to hit smaller target's more effectively. Since less misses mean more damage, a target painter will help increase your DPS against smaller targets. You need to be at fall-off though because smaller targets ussualy have more speed than your gan can track at close range, and it won't matter if you increase target's signature if you can't hit it because it's too fast.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.09 16:58:00 -
[14]
MWDs also raise signature, so take this little bit of advice. set your overview to show velocity and when that frigate spikes up to really fast paint it and unload everything you have. with both my Railox and Missleox i love it when those Gurista frigates MWD because suddenly they get hit for cruiser damage instead of the cheesy 20 damage and go pop rather fast.
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Chee
Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:10:00 -
[15]
even tho the frig might be painted and MWDing, if his speed is high enough he will still outrun the explosion velocity and thus take next to useless dmg.
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Binarii
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Posted - 2006.09.09 19:51:00 -
[16]
Someone explain this to me please:
A crow is speeding towards me at 4000m/s to tackle my cruiser. I assume that he must have a MWD fitted and active to obtain that speed(?)
A MWD gives a signature "bonus" of 500%, giving the crow a 36*6 = 216 radius am I right so far?
So my trusty 250mm rails with a signature resolution of 125 should surely hit for the max possible damage regardless or not of any target painting?
Does this mean that target painting is completely useless to incoming tackler frigates?
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ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.10 08:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Binarii Someone explain this to me please:
A crow is speeding towards me at 4000m/s to tackle my cruiser. I assume that he must have a MWD fitted and active to obtain that speed(?)
A MWD gives a signature "bonus" of 500%, giving the crow a 36*6 = 216 radius am I right so far?
So my trusty 250mm rails with a signature resolution of 125 should surely hit for the max possible damage regardless or not of any target painting?
Does this mean that target painting is completely useless to incoming tackler frigates?
Correct except for the simple fact that a Crow with Interceptors 4 has a signature radius of 28.8 (Each level of Interceptors decreases sig radius by 5%); thus the signature radius when MWDing would equal 144 m.
Also for info on how the missile formula works, see the link below my sig.
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
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