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Bloodvessel	Posted - 2006.09.09 23:14:00 - [1] I'm in a Gallente frigate (Incurses), and I've been trying to make money. I've gotten 2.5 million ISK so far doing missions alone, but the repetition is so boring. I bought a miner frigate and 15k a trip isn't going to cut it. I have the skills for my Thorax, just not sure which way to make a good amount of money in a faster or at least, more fun fashion. Any ideas? I could just suck it up, but meh! Courier missions and "kill X amount of NPC's 60 times to get 100k" is rather annoying.
Darth Sion Caldari Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.09.09 23:35:00 - [2] I dont know if Gallente has an equivalent to the Ospery(Caldari minning cruiser) but with the cruiser and badger mark II, I make around 500K an hour..I mine in a jet can Vicious Pyro and Massive Scord, and go either sell or refine then sell(depends on if your region is high on ore or not) Other than that..I myself have no other way of making money..I just have bad luck lol. Level I missions are getting repetative for me as well..and I lost my blackbird from greifers that camped the EC gate. If you get a good combat cruiser, Level II missions are very rewarding in agent rewards and loot(I odne thema couple in my Caracal, but my caracal is parked in the POS a couple of jumps away from me) I used to make 300-500k per trip just buying random NPC goods at low, and jumping however many needed jumps to sell high..it works, you can do the same back to your home system..but my current region I cant do much of that..except mine.
Kyrkov Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.09 23:57:00 - [3] You can join a corp that does ops, like mining ops, or mission/ratting ops, they might let you tag along while they do higher lvl missions, you could make decent money that way. Or if you really want come to amattar space and I'll let you tag along on my lvl 3 missions :)
Devious Dexter	Posted - 2006.09.10 01:55:00 - [4] As a Gallente pilot myself. i found myself mining in my Vexor (cruiser) with 4 miner II's on the high slots and and Co-processor as well as a mining upgrade. though you will need to gain skill for the use of those it was well worth it, also train the drone skills, vexors are great for holding off the npc rats while mining, i would suggest mining in a 0.5 sys as omber (gallente space anyways) will spawn there twice a week or so, plaq is also a good method to gain ISKies. Hope that helps, good luck!
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.09.10 06:08:00 - [5] Find buddies or corp, do mining ops. Stick a mining laser on a hauler, go to 1.0 and AFK mine If you can join a 0.0 corp/alliance, go to where they are and ninja mine in your frigate. My biggest advice to you would be basically to find an EXPERIENCED corp, gang with other members, do what they do and learn from them. By experienced I mean a corp that is prepared/has been exposed to PVP. There's nothing worse than joining a "peaceful" corp and getting wardecced. Try one of the "academy" corps out there that take newbs and teach em.
Larkonis Trassler g guild	Posted - 2006.09.10 13:35:00 - [6] Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 10/09/2006 13:38:16 Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 10/09/2006 13:37:53 Originally by: Darth Sion Other than that..I myself have no other way of making money..I just have bad luck lol. Level I missions are getting repetative for me as well..and I lost my blackbird from greifers that camped the EC gate. I'm not even going to start... Actually I will... These people weren't griefers... Eve is a PvP game... there is noone in 0.0 to hold your hand you shouldn't be entering 0.0 so soon, least not through one of the most heavily camped gates in the universe. My advice, buy an Osprey, fit miner IIs, some light drones and an Assault Launcher and mine Scord and Pyro to your hearts content in 0.5 while you train your learning skills up. Can probably net you around 2 mil an hour. ------------
Darth Sion Caldari Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.09.10 15:19:00 - [7] Edited by: Darth Sion on 10/09/2006 15:20:04 It isnt PvP if they you got 4-7 ships bubbling gates and killing alot of lone ships ONE BY ONE..I did PvPing, and this wasnt PvPing, they aent brave enough to actually try to attack an actual gang or corp. They attack LONE pilots. And yeah, Thats what im doing with my ospery, but I only make around 500K an hour, Ores are very very underpriced in lonetrek, and i gotta reprocess and sell..I would make sell orders, but I dont have a good idea on how to price the ores.
Luxor Danith	Posted - 2006.09.10 16:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Darth Sion Edited by: Darth Sion on 10/09/2006 15:20:04 It isnt PvP if they you got 4-7 ships bubbling gates and killing alot of lone ships ONE BY ONE..I did PvPing, and this wasnt PvPing, they aent brave enough to actually try to attack an actual gang or corp. They attack LONE pilots. And yeah, Thats what im doing with my ospery, but I only make around 500K an hour, Ores are very very underpriced in lonetrek, and i gotta reprocess and sell..I would make sell orders, but I dont have a good idea on how to price the ores. Train up your skills for industrial ships. When you mine, jetison your ore to a cargo can, and come pick it up with an industrial once you have a hold full. It much more efficient than runing to the station every time you have crusier full of rock. Even still, unless you get lucky and hit an omber system on the day that the omber spawns high sec mining doesn't bring in huge amounts of money, even if you have a mining barge. Other ways to make money: Use the industrial to run trade goods. Study the market, buy things, haul them to where you can sell them for more. I did it alot getting started and on good days it pays better than high sec mining. Level II missions pay better than level I, but not as much as you would hope. The main reason to do low level missions is so that some day you can do the high level missions, which are probably the best income for a player sticking to empire space. With a good combat cruiser the best income stream would probably be low sec belt hunting rather than missions if your are just trying to raise cash. This is of course more dangerouns, because of the possibility of PC pirates. If you go this route then use the map to find a quite .3 or .4 system with little trafic and podkills. Once you get there create bookmarks for station instadocks and several safe spots, keep a sharp eye on local (pull up info on people and check security standings to identify potential pirates) and live in a healthy state of paranoia. Targeting is the same as shooting in low sec. If someone targets you IMMEDIATLY run or fight, they are planning to do the former. A couple of warp core stab go a long way to keeping you alive as well.
Sakura Nihil Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.09.10 16:56:00 - [9] Work together as a corp, at the very least, it will make what grind you need to do for isk a lot easier. As for actually making it, missions, mining, and ratting are the easy ways. Piracy is the hard way . Tharsis wants you - click it ;)
Illum Manthel Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.09.10 22:57:00 - [10] Right now I mine in 1.0 security right by my 'home base' I use a navitas with two mining lasers to quickly mine condensed scordite. Everything I mine I dump into a cargo container till I have about 4500m3 of it... This I pick up with a Iteron mark II (cargo inhanced) and return to station. Each run takes about 25 to 30 minutes. IMPORTANT: If your new in the game you get much more money selling the ore directly then to reprosess it! I learned this 2 days ago I get about 330.000 isk per run... about 680.000 in an hour.
Imuran	Posted - 2006.09.11 01:22:00 - [11] Train up you Connections/Negotitian social skills - get better agents and make more money?
Gericault m0id Contention Inc	Posted - 2006.09.11 03:50:00 - [12] As people above have said: get together with other players (in a corp or losely people that appear to be doing the same as you) and either learn from experienced players how to make more money or use economies of scale when you mine (i.e. a few people mining and a guy hauling the stuff back to station).
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.11 10:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Darth Sion Edited by: Darth Sion on 10/09/2006 15:20:04 It isnt PvP if they you got 4-7 ships bubbling gates and killing alot of lone ships ONE BY ONE..I did PvPing, and this wasnt PvPing, they aent brave enough to actually try to attack an actual gang or corp. They attack LONE pilots. Yes, it's still PvP. Welcome to Eve. ----------
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.11 10:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Bloodvessel I'm in a Gallente frigate (Incurses), and I've been trying to make money. I've gotten 2.5 million ISK so far doing missions alone, but the repetition is so boring. I bought a miner frigate and 15k a trip isn't going to cut it. I have the skills for my Thorax, just not sure which way to make a good amount of money in a faster or at least, more fun fashion. Any ideas? I could just suck it up, but meh! Courier missions and "kill X amount of NPC's 60 times to get 100k" is rather annoying. I found a mining catalyst to be rather good for getting money in faster. I found trying to mine in 0.4 with it a good way to get money out faster. ----------
Wotar	Posted - 2006.09.11 12:12:00 - [15] Originally by: Darth Sion It isnt PvP Yes it is. They are players and so are you. The situation was them vs you. Therefore: player v player (pvp). k?
Darth Sion Caldari Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.09.11 23:21:00 - [16] Not in the sense of hey, im expecting this, or hey, I think there is an invader in my system and he knows it..it was jumped in, and in 5 secs blown up kinda sense..your already passed that point, you have alota friends traveling at the same time, etc. but meh, I've met others that also call these greifers..as I said I got ym share of PvP, an dyes I did lose..THAT was PvP, to me this isnt..sorry if my view differes from yours.
Wotar	Posted - 2006.09.12 10:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Darth Sion Not in the sense of hey, im expecting this, or hey, I think there is an invader in my system and he knows it..it was jumped in, and in 5 secs blown up kinda sense..your already passed that point, you have alota friends traveling at the same time, etc. but meh, I've met others that also call these greifers..as I said I got ym share of PvP, an dyes I did lose..THAT was PvP, to me this isnt..sorry if my view differes from yours. When players shoot other players, that IS pvp, whether you say so or not :P The perceived 'fairness' of the situation has nothing to do with the definition.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.12 10:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Darth Sion It isnt PvP if they you got 4-7 ships bubbling gates and killing alot of lone ships ONE BY ONE..I did PvPing, and this wasnt PvPing, they aent brave enough to actually try to attack an actual gang or corp. They attack LONE pilots. You try to camp a 0.0 gate and only get attacked by one person at a time. If you camp EC with 10 people, 20 people will attack you. Then 30 people will attack those 20 people... its dangerous as hell, EC being probably the most deadly system in the entire game. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Helperton	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Wotar Originally by: Darth Sion It isnt PvP Yes it is. They are players and so are you. The situation was them vs you. Therefore: player v player (pvp). k? By this definition I guess manufacturing is pvp since it's a situation of you vs. other manufacturers trying to sell on the market. Mining is pvp since you're competing with other miners to sell minerals at the best prices and competing for the good belt spawns. Here's another game with "pvp" PvP Game. By your definition, you are in a "them vs. you" situation competing to see who can make the cutest looking hello kitty character. Therefore it must be pvp and those that don't like it are just "carebears". I think the point is most people consider "pvp" to be combat against other players that has some entertainment value and takes some measure of skill from those involved. If you accept this, then gate camping with 10 people + bubble then running when you actually get a real fight doesn't qualify as pvping. It's just killmail farming or circlejerking... I love real pvp and wouldnt play a game without it. But defending gate camping as pvp is just retarded. When a real force shows up and you actually start fighting them, THAT'S when you're pvping. k? To the OP: Unfortunately many ways of making money in EVE are very boring. You do sort of just have to suck it up. If you're going to stay solo, mission running is probably your best and safest bet. Lvl 4 missions can produce pretty decent rewards for the time you put in. Really you should find a corp you like and go from there...especially if you're set on mining.
Wotar	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Helperton By this definition I guess manufacturing is pvp since it's a situation of you vs. other manufacturers trying to sell on the market. Mining is pvp since you're competing with other miners to sell minerals at the best prices and competing for the good belt spawns. He gets it \o/ or does he.... :S
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Helperton Originally by: Wotar Originally by: Darth Sion It isnt PvP Yes it is. They are players and so are you. The situation was them vs you. Therefore: player v player (pvp). k? By this definition I guess manufacturing is pvp since it's a situation of you vs. other manufacturers trying to sell on the market. Mining is pvp since you're competing with other miners to sell minerals at the best prices and competing for the good belt spawns. Yes, these are all examples of other forms of PvP. Hence all the people running around saying everything, not just combat, in Eve is PvP. Quote: I think the point is most people consider "pvp" to be combat against other players that has some entertainment value and takes some measure of skill from those involved. If you accept this, then gate camping with 10 people + bubble then running when you actually get a real fight doesn't qualify as pvping. It's just killmail farming or circlejerking... I love real pvp and wouldnt play a game without it. But defending gate camping as pvp is just retarded. When a real force shows up and you actually start fighting them, THAT'S when you're pvping. k? Whether you like it or not is not a factor in whether it is PvP or not. k? ----------
Helperton	Posted - 2006.09.12 12:17:00 - [22] The point I was trying to make is that you seem to be confusing semantics. On a very literal level, yes pvp means player vs player, and it can be reduced to a definition that includes pretty much anything that involves more than one player. However from my perspective, most people use the term "pvp" not so much in the literal sense as in the way I described above. Most people would probably not consider mining, manufacturing, or hello kitty online, or gate camping (if they were consistent) to be "pvp" activities. The latter also seems to be the definition the people you are arguing against seem to be using. It wouldn't matter what definition you used except for the fact that you seem to be labeling something as pvp then defending it by saying "that's what pvp is" in an attempt to confuse the argument.
Wotar	Posted - 2006.09.12 12:48:00 - [23] Why would you not consider gate camping to be pvp? You are waiting at a place in order to engage other players in combat. Again, that is pvp.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.12 13:11:00 - [24] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 12/09/2006 13:12:21 Originally by: Helperton The point I was trying to make is that you seem to be confusing semantics. On a very literal level, yes pvp means player vs player, and it can be reduced to a definition that includes pretty much anything that involves more than one player. Everything involving more than one player is either cooperative or PvP. Originally by: Helperton Most people would probably not consider mining, manufacturing [...] "pvp" activities Then these people do not understand Eve very well. Originally by: Helperton It wouldn't matter what definition you used except for the fact that you seem to be labeling something as pvp then defending it by saying "that's what pvp is" in an attempt to confuse the argument. Combat in Eve, between players, is PvP. But you (or the 'most people' in question) are taking a certain set of combat situations and labelling them as non-PvP because they don't suit you. How does this make any sense? ----------
Cipher7 Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2006.09.12 13:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Helperton The point I was trying to make is that you seem to be confusing semantics. On a very literal level, yes pvp means player vs player, and it can be reduced to a definition that includes pretty much anything that involves more than one player. However from my perspective, most people use the term "pvp" not so much in the literal sense as in the way I described above. Most people would probably not consider mining, manufacturing, or hello kitty online, or gate camping (if they were consistent) to be "pvp" activities. The latter also seems to be the definition the people you are arguing against seem to be using. It wouldn't matter what definition you used except for the fact that you seem to be labeling something as pvp then defending it by saying "that's what pvp is" in an attempt to confuse the argument. It is not mere Semantics. PVP in Eve is not a sidegame. It IS the game. You don't do PVP for giggles, you engage in it as a matter of day to day survival. It is part entertainment, part darwinian social experiment. A friendly game of 1-on-1 is not PVP, it is dueling for sport not competing for survival. Trading on the market is for survival. Competing for ore is survival. Competing in production is survival. Camping gates (and invading others) is survival, pirating other players (for their money) is survival. Mission running is %100 against the spirit of the game and I hope they tear it out completely.
Yggr Gallente Red Frog Investments Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:02:00 - [26] Originally by: Helperton Most people would probably not consider mining, manufacturing, or hello kitty online, or gate camping (if they were consistent) to be "pvp" activities. Most people in EvE DO consider mining, manufacturing, etc. to be PvP. Have you ever tried to manufacture and sell anything in EvE? Do you know how cut-throat it is to acquire a BPO, research it to reduce wasted minerals, acquire those minerals at a good price (on the market or by spending time mining them yourself), and finally bringing the goods to market at a price which makes it worthwile? It is an intensely PvP experience, and your ability to make a profit hangs on the edge of a knife. ----- Originally by: Malthros Zenobia [TomB,] Were you true to the name [Tom Bombadil], dancing around the woods singing (and killing anything that moved) without a care in the world?
Helperton	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:20:00 - [27] Quote: Everything involving more than one player is either cooperative or PvP. Since you're arguing semantics, yes you can define it this way, but lets take WoW for example (since people are familiar with WoW). You can sell on the auction house. This isn't a cooperative activity so it must be pvp. You can try to farm more gold than your favorite farmer friend. This isn't cooperative so it must be pvp. You can try to get higher dkp in your guild so you can get gear first. Again this must be pvp. You could go on and on and extend this to any game. In a very literal way, these are "pvp", but I can't think of anyone that would normally describe them as such. Pvp is combat between players. Quote: Originally by: HelpertonMost people would probably not consider mining, manufacturing [...] "pvp" activities Quote: Then these people do not understand Eve very well. Most people in game or on the boards certainly do not consider mining to be a form of pvp any more than people in WoW think gathering dkp or camping the auction house is pvp. You're basically saying the vast majority of eve players don't understand eve.... Quote: Combat in Eve, between players, is PvP. But you (or the 'most people' in question) are taking a certain set of combat situations and labelling them as non-PvP because they don't suit you. Yes combat between players is pvp. However combat implies 2 sides fighting against one another. If one side instantly kills the other before it move with 0 chance to fight back while themselves assuming 0 risk, I wouldn't really consider that combat or pvp. Execution maybe. You are taking all situations, combat or not and labeling them pvp. It doesn't seem to suit you that not everyone respects your style of farming newbies for killmails so you stretch the definition of pvp to include it. Then you attack anyone who disagrees by saying they're playing a pvp game and killmail farming gate camps are pvp. I don't mind this type of gate camp and I appreciate that the game allows the freedom to do it. However, I also don't see it as pvp or as any real type of combat. Defending it as pvp is just a crappy attempt to justify doing it. There is another type of gate camp used for real strategic purposes or for those actually looking for a fight. This is very different thing from what the OP is describing and from what you're defending. These are people actually looking for a fight and don't automatically safespot when 2 ships jump in.
Wotar	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:01:00 - [28] Edited by: Wotar on 12/09/2006 15:02:38 Originally by: Helperton This is very different thing from what the OP is describing and from what you're defending. These are people actually looking for a fight and don't automatically safespot when 2 ships jump in. Huh? No-one is defending anything apart from the fact that any sort of gatecamp - whether it is one that gains your approval or otherwise - is pvp! Edit: wow, we really went off-topic. Apologies to the OP, although I doubt he's still reading the thread
Helperton	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:48:00 - [29] Originally by: Wotar Edited by: Wotar on 12/09/2006 15:02:38 Originally by: Helperton This is very different thing from what the OP is describing and from what you're defending. These are people actually looking for a fight and don't automatically safespot when 2 ships jump in. Huh? No-one is defending anything apart from the fact that any sort of gatecamp - whether it is one that gains your approval or otherwise - is pvp! Edit: wow, we really went off-topic. Apologies to the OP, although I doubt he's still reading the thread Since you call mining pvp, then I suppose you can call gate camping pvp if you want to. The point stands that it's misleading because neither staring at a gate nor mining are what most people consider pvp. The fact that you're at a gate really has nothing to do with it. If you are in combat with someone, that's pvp even with unfair odds, but insta-popping a newb as they jump in isn't combat anymore than shooting a cow with an uzi is combat. I believe you were defending this particular type of gate camping in response to Darth Sion saying Quote: It isnt PvP if they you got 4-7 ships bubbling gates and killing alot of lone ships ONE BY ONE..I did PvPing, and this wasnt PvPing, they aent brave enough to actually try to attack an actual gang or corp. They attack LONE pilots. You seemed not to "approve" of some people's dislike for this style of play and saw fit to defend it for some reason. Whether you or I like it is really irrelevant. I just thought your argument of "it's pvp and this is a pvp game" to justify doing it was really stupid :) . That's all. If you like doing it, then do it. Just don't try to glorify it for what it isn't, and don't make up some retarded argument to defend it. But yeah this got a little off topic...some gate camps are built to camp newbs. Just something you have to watch out for regardless of what you want to call it.
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:59:00 - [30] just as I consider GOLF to be pvp, so is mining/manufacturing/production...hell I even consider mission running to be pvp, since it is a form of time/isk conversion. And the faster you can run it, versus someone else, the more buying power you have on the market. it's an MMO people, where your actions has, albeit a small one, influence on other folks. therefore, it's pretty much 100% pvp. hell even the forums have pvp.

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