I've just come back to Eve myself - Sleipnir looks pretty sweet to me at the moment. I love it now has the same bonus to gang links as the claymore-not sold on claymore being a missile boat now it just seems underwhelming.

I used to love flying a vagabond it seems to have been nerfed pretty heavily. I've heard ishtars are in vogue now, that was my other HAC of choice so no great loss for me.

Back when I did gang pvp it felt like I was always welded into the seat of my sabre or Scimitar - those were the only two ships the FC would ever want me to bring I imagine they will still be welcome additions to any small gang.

yeah I have noticed that other weapons systems seem to be more powerful than small/medium AC and Arties are such a ***** to fit.

Would it be so unbalanced to drop the fitting of arties a tad?

Ah well back to minnie being eve on hard mode

What's wrong with autocannons now?

It's not so much that the Vagabond got nerfed so much as the Ishtar can do the Vagabond's job better than the Vagabond can. And the Eagle. And the Muninn. And the Zealot.

See where I'm going with that?

What's wrong with autocannons now?

I've been looking at minny frigs lately and my main conclusion seems to be I'd rather fly gallente or caldari. haven't really looked at amarr frigs much, but seems like there are some interesting choices there too. the 3 low 3 mid is what made the rifter the best for so long, players could pretty much do whatever they wanted with it. but now that seems not so great, as most other ships can fit a 3/4 or 4/3 layout.

the slasher seems fun, but it is pretty much a t1 interceptor. seems a bit fragile.

Slasher is actually really good. One of my favourite T1 frigs. The really good speed, 4 mids and excellent cap is what makes it good. For lowsec I use an ab/scram/web/td + AAR + neut fit. You can scram kite at 8km with a range script or do a tight orbit with a tracking speed script while neuting them out. The cap is really good so you can run the neut for extended periods. The tank is light and you need to be quick to get under/away from certain enemies but once you get used to flying it it's really good. I've killed Comets, Slicers and Firetails with the good ol Slasher.

Bingo, stop using the Rifter.

Slasher also works in an anti-kite fit; dual prop, bunch of speed mods, MSE, scram.

It took a hit to agility, falloff and I think grid.

it's pretty much an active tanking scram bruiser that "can" project in event you actually come across something faster or a blaster boat.

also the Ruppy and Cane got completely screwed. theyre essentially old school armor buffer blaster boats with out the face melting DPS or comparable tank and cap.

I saw in game Vaga now has a bonus to active tanking, similar to Sleipnir, which just seems weird to me. I always viewed vaga as fit barrage and kite peoples dps type of ship use the absurd speed to dictate the range and run from anything that you can't gank. I guess with a shield tank you can fit a close range scram and use EMP or even Hail but I don't feel it's the kind of ship you ever want to get webbed in so just seems like a weird bonus.

So how would you fly it nowadays, Is it still load up barrage and pulse mwd to maintain 17-20kmish orbit or do you use EMP and short range point?

The Ab/scram/web/td fit also beats Slicers even without a MWD, you can TD the Slicers optimal down to a point where they have 2 choices: Run away or kite at around 14km where they can actually hit at which point it's extremely easy to slingshot them and hit em with an overheated web.

You'll need the dual prop fit for things like Garmurs/Condors and other non-turret based kiters though.

I saw in game Vaga now has a bonus to active tanking, similar to Sleipnir, which just seems weird to me. I always viewed vaga as fit barrage and kite peoples dps type of ship use the absurd speed to dictate the range and run from anything that you can't gank. I guess with a shield tank you can fit a close range scram and use EMP or even Hail but I don't feel it's the kind of ship you ever want to get webbed in so just seems like a weird bonus.

Slasher is actually really good. One of my favourite T1 frigs. The really good speed, 4 mids and excellent cap is what makes it good. For lowsec I use an ab/scram/web/td + AAR + neut fit. You can scram kite at 8km with a range script or do a tight orbit with a tracking speed script while neuting them out. The cap is really good so you can run the neut for extended periods. The tank is light and you need to be quick to get under/away from certain enemies but once you get used to flying it it's really good. I've killed Comets, Slicers and Firetails with the good ol Slasher.

I have killed slashers such as this. Its annoying, but there is no risk. An AB frigate is ****. MWD frig that can win, is an automatic win vs an AB.

vaga can be marginally "good" in some case , only because he still the fastest cruiser in the game
but in HAC level , the Ishtar outperform EVERY ship so its another topic....

but like any thread about autocanon , minmatar ship , projectile wapon , everyone came with the same conclusion

1 : autocanon suffer too much by the recent TE nerf , they can't project well and does pathetic dps even on bonused hull
2 : minmatar ships still fast , but they have been ninja nerf in agility , so more ship can easily slingshoot them
3 : artillery still too hard to fit without sacrificing the entire ship , its not a viable weapon to use instead of autocanon

to resume : minmatar ships are fast but not agile , doesn't have a good tank(except sleipnir and vargur) and doesn't project dps well and does anemic dps
playing minmatar are the "hardcore" level XD

there is a lot discussion/thread opened about it , i can't believe that CCP didn't see it...

Before the "rebalancing" Minmatar used to specialize in PvP. They were absolute bottom of the barrel in almost every category except speed but due to falloff mechanics ruled at solo PvP.

Minmatar ships back then had the lowest dps, worst tank, required the most skill points to fly etc... Because of all of this they were the solo PvP kings but were sub par in almost every other situation.

So then they "rebalanced" the ships because some people were whining that they did not want to have to train "winmatar" to be able to PvP. I don't PvP but from what I hear and what I've read it seems that PvP is fairly well balanced between the races atm which I read as homogenized or all the same with no flavor.

So with PvP now balanced nothing was really done to boost the Minmatar ships in PvE. I can think of no PvE situation where there is not a ship of a different race that will do it better than the best Minmatar ship for the job. Granted they are not terrible they just are not great either. I think that so many people have used the Machariel as an example of how Minmatar ships are still great should tell you something. When you need to go to a pirate faction ship to even compete with the other main races you know something is wrong.

There is not a single T1 ship on your list there.

You can question my skill all you want however as a Mini pilot, I know for a fact that T1 Minimitar cruiser and above need some serious love to become viable solo PVP ships again. (Stabber and Scythe Fleet issues being the exception) Also, when was the last time you flew a rifter?

I do in fact, the Vaga is one of my go to solo PVP ships. However these days after the TE nerf it's damage projection is a bit underwhelming. It is still an excellent anti-frig platform, and all Mini ships are very good at killing ships under their class IE the whelp Pest or Whelp Cane, however they do sometimes struggle within their own class.

Ruptures these days, once one of the best T1 Cruisers, now get outclassed in just about every way by a Vexor/Moa/Maller. Canes are forced to brawl and have no hope of going toe to toe against a well fit Brutix, Myrm, or Prophecy, even a HAM Drake is questionable. You did mention the Arty shield Ruppy (and its big brother the arty cane) which are still viable fleet ships, however they no longer have a significant speed advantage over the other racial ships, nor do they have the capacitor to kite comfortably for over a minute or two. They work for sure, here are some examples:

3 Shotting a Vaga

Kiting a Bait Procurer

I've had to upgrade my T1 Arty Cane to an Cane Fleet in order to still fit a reasonable tank. However without full skirmish links its still a very difficult ship to fly effectively.

With the TE nerf and Mini agility nerf, they have been forced into becoming armor brawlers, where they are outgunned by Blaster Boats and out tanked by just about everything else. If auto cannons get a rebalance, the days of Nano Pests and Canes may come again, but until that time I don't reccomend them as competetive solo PVP ships. Their engagement profile has just grown significantly smaller than it used to be.

T1 ships you say?

- Scythe. Logi ship, not relavent to solo PvP minus the niche` linked, boosted pvp fits

- BURST Logi ship, not a solo pvp boat

- Rifter You haven't been in a rifter lately have you? Rifter is the worst t1 frig in the game at the moment, falloff bonus does almost nothing for the hull with small a/c's, you can scram kite, but breacher is much better in that role.

- Thrasher Is good

- Vigil wat? Why would anyone except 1 week old noobs fly vigils? Belli is billions of times better, and can actually provide support for the gang as anti-frig

- Anti-frig Bellicose - Is good, can be used in solo pvp, mainly to face roll frigs in FW

- Arty Rupture - Not solo, unless you use a very niche` fit, in a gang/fleet setting, they're ok-ish

Faction you say?

- Scythe fleet issue Good

- Stabber fleet issue Good


I also forgot to mention the Sabre. Bottom line is: Minnie has a **** ton of useful ships. Anyone who says otherwise... I question them as a PvPer.

You're basing your argument on being able to solo. There is more to pvp than just soloing and logis play a very important role in all aspect of PvP. To say that doesn't count as useful is like me saying that the Ishtar is useless because I refuse to train drones thus making it a **** ship. Nowhere in the OP was being able to solo mentioned. Bottom line: you're wrong.

Interesting read guys.

Had the christmas period off eve and getting some basic combat skills up etc.

Looks like I'll be starting with the slasher/rifter for my solo frig forays into low/null then see how it pans out. Probably round off my skills with the breacher then just move up the ship classes as time goes on.

One thing I have noticed is that minnie in general have a few extra m/s than the other races but they are often the 2nd/3rd in agility. Which kinda gimps the ability to utilise that speed. Give then AC deliver less (sometimes a lot less) damage than other weapon systems wouldn't you think having the agility to synergise with the speed would be a good 'balance'?

I used to fly other races when minnies were 'winmatar' as they were clearly op and made pvp more like 'easy mode' but now it seems they have gone almost right back to the start where they were the hardest race to fly/fight with and longest skilling to utilise all their ships abilities etc.

Ah well lets see how I get on...CHARGE!!


Oh and I prefer solo - v small gang stuff.

Your right. Minny agility was nerfed and gal agility buffed. Thats one reason minny speed isnt all its cracked up to be. A vagabond vs deimos drag race, the deimos will win since it accelerates quicker. Able to snag that vaga on the gate before it can effectively kite.

He literally just mentioned solo. He did not in the OP. Therefore, my argument still stands.

He literally just mentioned solo. He did not in the OP. Therefore, my argument still stands.