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About patriotism and hope : on the notoriety of Diana Kim

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Haria Haritimado Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.12.23 14:22:49 - [1] - Quote A flashy studio and a political talk show fills the gap between morning news break and the midday programme. Broadcasting in Caldari State and beyond. Haria Haritimado is one of several invited guests this day and representing GÇÿthe capsuleersGÇÖ. GÇ£Welcome back to the New Caldari Prime Daily. WeGÇÖre discussing GÇÿPatriotism and HopeGÇÖ this morning and our next guest is Ms. Haria Haritimado, a capsuleer from the Science & Trade Institute. GÇ£Ms. Haritimado, weGÇÖve heard so far, that the current debates on intergalactic politics, as discussed within the community of capsuleers, are completely aloof and detached from any major discourses going on on planetary, regional, or local levels. Immortal capsuleers and their deeds and views as interstelar agents shape the future, it is said! But do they shape anything more than their own affairs?GÇ¥ GÇ£Well, as a GÇÿyoungGÇÖ capsuleer I still share the views from within and without the capsuleer community, I think. And they are certainly involved in matters which effect many citizens of different interstelar political bodies. So I donGÇÖt think theyGÇÖre just living in their own bubble of space and time. But I do think that the capsuleer community and itGÇÖs political debate got detached from any fundamental experiences of culture and history.GÇ¥ GÇ£But cultural identity as well as differences and the definition of history seems to play an important role, though.GÇ¥ GÇ£Yes. But in my oppinion, those topics are often discussed without any reference to any real experience of what culture and history really is and means GÇô especially of our neighbors or so called adversaries. The capsuleer debates seem to hover above all those innumerable tiny planets, moons, stations, and local communities. TheyGÇÖre talking about them, but not necessarily with them. Which is odd, because one lifetime may not be enough to get a grasp on what really defines our interstellar neighborsGÇÖ life world. But capsuleers do have the potential to be nearly immortal agents and ambassadors with a transgenerational view on the coexistance of nations.GÇ¥ GÇ£So, capsuleers are narrow minded?GÇ¥ GÇ£ThatGÇÖs a hard word. I find most of them quiet versatile and intelligent. But as a capsuleer you could either be engaged in diplomacy, understanding, and tolerance, or you narrow the scope and act as a mere weapon or tool for resentmenents. From my perspective, political debates among capsuleers mostly stick to the latter kind. My first impression is, Capsuleers engage each other with seemingly undisputable positions. They tend to confront ideas and values which appear universal to them. I assume that this is a wrong attitude, caused by a presupposed bigger relevance. Capsuleers discuss matters which affect trillions! So matters appear more important and seem undisputable! You found this attitude recently in debates on Amarr and Minmatar, crusaders, or among Caldari citizens. But this is a deceiving attitude, because the capsuleersGÇÖ clash of positions and values is just the same as within the smallest local community possible. The outcome of debates may be of uttermost relevance to many, but to think this would amplify the power and relevance of your argument in the beginning, is a wrong conclusion.GÇ¥ GÇ£So you support the idea of tolerance and understanding between rival factions, which is normally labeled a liberal point of view or humanist attitude.GÇ¥ GÇ£You could say so, though IGÇÖm not thinking of myself as a politician of some sort. It is more of an intimate, personal insight. Every great nation of New Eden, and maybe some alien civilizations as well, share the innermost understanding for GÇÿthe other personGÇÖ. They understand, that self expression, history and the orientation toward a fullfilling future is universal and if I look at the other, IGÇÖm basically looking at someone like me. There are differences, but everyone of us is able to understand the wish for appreciation of oneGÇÖs very self and the welfare of community. I strongly believe that this understanding is fundamental. Especially for capsuleers, since they constantly cross horizons today and reach beyond what they knew yesterday.GÇ¥ GÇ£From what you say, capsuleers should no longer be agents of their nation, faction, or society they come from. Do you think they should be some kind of universal agents of peace, reaching hands against all odds?GÇ¥ Character blog: Horizons and Reflections
Haria Haritimado Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.12.23 14:23:18 - [2] - Quote GÇ£He, you said that. GÇô Capsuleers have the potential to severely escalate any ongoing conflict between nations or factions. They could stand back from this, but IGÇÖm too much of a realist to suggest this an option at hand. Anyway, they could stop alienating and demonizing their neighbors. The word alien has a real meaning and a deeper sense. A far more scaring face than those of our neighbors. There is an intelligence out there in deep space and the darkness between the stars, which does not share this universal empathy I just mentioned. This is the real border we capsuleers explore. This is the outer frontier for all our societies, and we are the watchtowers. I think our people expect us to focus on this, rather than fueling conflicts among our societies.GÇ¥ GÇ£YouGÇÖre refering to such unimaginable stories about shattered worlds from the past? Or the Sleeper threat?GÇ¥ GÇ£Just words, unfitted to describe. The things you donGÇÖt find words for is what really scares. And capsuleers are the ones who have the potential to protect our people from them.GÇ¥ GÇ£Em, ah, alright. EmGÇª so, what would you advise?GÇ¥ GÇ£Well, IGÇÖm not in the position to advise anyone. IGÇÖm just a newborn to this strange elevated caste which our ancestors once created from technological visions. But I observe capsuleers struggling for what they think makes up their innermost convictions. And there is a climate of either hiding behind them, or carrying them as a sharpened spear, pointed toward every dissenter. I assume that we should either step forward out of the shadows of our convictions, or lower the spear. We should learn more about what unites us and see behind resentments. Which would also imply the need to let go of certain convictions which have become convenient and unquestioned over time.GÇ¥ GÇ£And for that reason you longed for a deeper understanding of a very controversial capsuleer among the Caldari, Strike Commander Diana Kim. Quiet a daring undertaking, for which youGÇÖve already been criticised by the Science & Trade Institute among others.GÇ¥ GÇ£I personally had to come to terms with Diana Kim for several reasons. Anyway, sheGÇÖs an example for a person, who hides behind her convictions, and carry them as a sharpened spear at the same time. And as a capsuleer, I realized, IGÇÖm in the position and maybe have the obligation to criticise. Starting anywhere else except the State in which I was bred wouldGÇÖve appeared very questionalbe.GÇ¥ GÇ£Alright. Before we have a closer look at some parts of the recorded interview, weGÇÖre having a short break and open a public channel for the audience. Contributions and comments welcome. WeGÇÖll be back in a minute!GÇ¥ Character blog: Horizons and Reflections
Wendrika Hydreiga 198	Posted - 2014.12.23 14:37:53 - [3] - Quote Leave Miss Kim alone!
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 204	Posted - 2014.12.23 14:59:37 - [4] - Quote I'm betting 20isk Kim's response is going to be longer than what is directly written about her.... grabs popcorn, throws a kernel in the air, misses mouth
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 4371	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:32:30 - [5] - Quote I'll be interested to see exactly where this ends up going. I have some sympathies as I remember when Diana Kim was held up as the epitome of the Patriot bloc capsules and I am often sad to see how far she has fallen. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..."
Kalaratiri Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 433	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:45:27 - [6] - Quote Are we still doing this? I thought we'd done this. She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. -á- CCP Falcon
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 241	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:48:40 - [7] - Quote Wendrika Hydreiga wrote: Leave Miss Kim alone! So she would also leave us alone! Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
Claudia Osyn Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 1011	Posted - 2014.12.23 17:01:40 - [8] - Quote It was a good read untill you had to bring up Kimmy... This coulda' gone places, Kid. The lack of money is the root of all evil.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 4373	Posted - 2014.12.23 18:53:03 - [9] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: It was a good read untill you had to bring up Kimmy... This coulda' gone places, Kid. Let's not rush to judgement. Just because Diana Kim herself has not ventured off-message in two years, that doesn't mean we can't have an interesting conversation about topics including her. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..."
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 24665	Posted - 2014.12.23 19:01:10 - [10] - Quote Can someone be gracious enough to give me an abridged version of what this is all about? Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel My Wormhole Pron \| The Endgame \| Wormhole Diary
Andreus Ixiris Duty. Circle-Of-Two 5229	Posted - 2014.12.23 19:11:35 - [11] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: that doesn't mean we can't have an interesting conversation about topics including her. To discuss a person is to summon them. To discuss the person in question is to summon them. To summon the person in question is to immediately torpedo any attempt at an interesting conversation on any topic, especially any topics including that person. Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all. Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus. Andreus Ixiris > ... Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Louella Dougans Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine 154	Posted - 2014.12.23 20:15:08 - [12] - Quote And this is why the IGS must be destroyed. Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
Claudia Osyn Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 1014	Posted - 2014.12.23 21:46:43 - [13] - Quote Andreus Ixiris wrote: Pieter Tuulinen wrote: that doesn't mean we can't have an interesting conversation about topics including her. To discuss a person is to summon them. To discuss the person in question is to summon them. To summon the person in question is to immediately torpedo any attempt at an interesting conversation on any topic, especially any topics including that person. So why are we still discussing this person? The lack of money is the root of all evil.
Claudia Osyn Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 1014	Posted - 2014.12.23 21:51:22 - [14] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Can someone be gracious enough to give me an abridged version of what this is all about? Abriged? It has to do with the precieved role Capusleers could play in the grand scheme of intersteller politics, from the point of view of a recently graduated pilot. And something about Kimmy..... I think. The lack of money is the root of all evil.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 24683	Posted - 2014.12.23 22:07:06 - [15] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: Can someone be gracious enough to give me an abridged version of what this is all about? Abriged? It has to do with the precieved role Capusleers could play in the grand scheme of intersteller politics, from the point of view of a recently graduated pilot. And something about Kimmy..... I think. Much appreciated. So, politics politics with a little anti-Kim. I guess my choice to not bother reading it was a wise one. Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel My Wormhole Pron \| The Endgame \| Wormhole Diary
Claudia Osyn Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 1015	Posted - 2014.12.23 22:42:53 - [16] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Claudia Osyn wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: Can someone be gracious enough to give me an abridged version of what this is all about? Abriged? It has to do with the precieved role Capusleers could play in the grand scheme of intersteller politics, from the point of view of a recently graduated pilot. And something about Kimmy..... I think. Much appreciated. So, politics politics with a little anti-Kim. I guess my choice to not bother reading it was a wise one. I wouldn't say anti-Kim, more like "example of one political extreme, Kim". The lack of money is the root of all evil.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 24699	Posted - 2014.12.23 23:09:24 - [17] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: Claudia Osyn wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: Can someone be gracious enough to give me an abridged version of what this is all about? Abriged? It has to do with the precieved role Capusleers could play in the grand scheme of intersteller politics, from the point of view of a recently graduated pilot. And something about Kimmy..... I think. Much appreciated. So, politics politics with a little anti-Kim. I guess my choice to not bother reading it was a wise one. I wouldn't say anti-Kim, more like "example of one political extreme, Kim". Fair enough. Still not seeing a reason to read it though. I'll stick with my Galactic Spam Daily I think. Goes down easier with breakfast than politics. Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel My Wormhole Pron \| The Endgame \| Wormhole Diary
Jukko Riis Black Rise Colonial Exploration 25	Posted - 2014.12.23 23:12:25 - [18] - Quote Extremism in any form can be dangerous, and unwise.
Dani Dusette Isogen 5 4087	Posted - 2014.12.24 00:23:35 - [19] - Quote Jukko Riis wrote: Extremism in any form can be dangerous, and unwise. Same can be said for boarding your capsule, jumping a certain gate, or entering almost any wormhole. Extremism is highly subjective, sir. Mizhir: "Dani Dusette, Best Dusette" Samoth Egnoled: "Make sure you turn yourself often and bathe in your own juices." ISD Ezwal: "Might I inform you that I am as real as it gets?"
Havohej Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 132	Posted - 2014.12.24 00:44:28 - [20] - Quote Louella Dougans wrote: And this is why the IGS must be destroyed. I've been trying. I'm only one infomorph. Strike us like matches, 'cause everyone deserves the flames. OOC Forums @ Backstage
Anslo Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 27488	Posted - 2014.12.24 02:27:56 - [21] - Quote It's a labor of seething pure unadulterated hate. Takes time. [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Anja Suorsa Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 311	Posted - 2014.12.24 09:40:36 - [22] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: I'll be interested to see exactly where this ends up going. I have some sympathies as I remember when Diana Kim was held up as the epitome of the Patriot bloc capsuleers and I am often sad to see how far she has fallen. I don't recall that ever actually being a thing, Kirjuun. She had grudging respect but was never the epitome; she has always had a couple of screws loose upstairs, she just went completely overboard after Heth took his extended sabbatical, evidently sending her reputation such as it was, with him.
Haria Haritimado Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.12.24 15:33:51 - [23] - Quote The short break is over and the broadcast continues, showing again the presenter and Haria Haritimado in the New Caldari Prime Daily studio. Both studying the recent comments. GÇ£Here we are back again. We received some comments from the audience with aGÇª mixed reaction, I would say. But quiet some capsuleers are among them, which is a good thing, I think. Ms. Haritimado, whatGÇÖs in your mind?GÇ¥ GÇ£Well, first of all thank you for the replies and comments. Some of them reflect my opinion quiet well. For example the feeling that Diana Kim should be left alone. Anyway, when I had graduated, it was impossible to get past her. And if someone asks why we are still discussing Diana Kim, I would say because there has been a lot of fuss about her, but it never really got solved. Discussions in the IGS prominently focused on her. Mostly the discussions were rude and overexagerated. Sometimes, someone tried to act more or less on behalf of the Strike Commander. But I was unsettled by the radicalism that accompanied most discussion partners, including herself. For me, in order to come to terms with the perspective of a life as a Caldari capsuleer, I had to see if Diana Kim really was like she appeared to be. ThatGÇÖs why I started my research. And IGÇÖm not intending to blame her or drag her back into a discussion she doesnGÇÖt want. IGÇÖm pretty sure she wonGÇÖt join this ongoing debate. So, IGÇÖm not going to GÇÿsummonGÇÖ her. GÇô Some very well known and experienced capsuleers just replied on the discussion and IGÇÖm very thankful for that. And IGÇÖm struck by the reactions as well. Why is it, that Diana Kim catches so much attention and provokes such strong reactions? This is certainly not the place to find an answer. Anyway, she agreed to the interview and IGÇÖm not going to betray her trust by stabbing her in the back or join a common choir of accusations, pity, or degradation. We wonGÇÖt see the interview in full length either.GÇ¥ GÇ£Alright, back to topic then!GÇ¥ GÇ£Yes. It is not about Diana Kim. She just happened to be an example which I could not avoid. I consider this my fault, not hers. Anyway, it is about how capsuleers perceive each other and present themselves to each other. The thing that struck me most when I did my research on Diana Kim and met her personally was that she appeared as a very different person. Highly intelligent, respectful, patient and restrained. Maybe even a bit shy. After I had the chance to get a closer look and understanding it left me restless and unsettled on one hand, but reliefed and calmed on the other. On one hand, she has a very radical view and left no questions, that sheGÇÖs serious and thoughtful about what she states in public. For example, when we were talking about freedom:GÇ¥ The video shows a calm interview situation in some kind of lounge. Diana Kim is sitting opposite to Haria Haritimado. Quote: Kim: GÇ£Freedom is a chaos, freedom means you can violate any law, any moral law, any custom, any relationship, any promise, code. Freedom means lack of anything that binds you, love, duty, posessions. Freedom means you are individual and act as you want to, disregarding anything. I donGÇÖt think there should be tolerance to such behaviour in the State. While we can arrest those, who violate lawsGÇª we should still cease support to individualists and provide better benefits for those, who are working for the good of Many.GÇ¥ [GÇª] Haritimado: GÇ£I am struck by your decisive judgement on freedom and that you see freedom so closely related to violence and violation of laws. Why is it, that your judement is so GÇô if I may say GÇô radical?GÇ¥ Kim: GÇ£I have been thinking a lot about freedom [GÇª] It became rather obvious for me, that a freedom is a sort of a maxima of individualism, low animalistic form of desire to do just whatever you want without feeling any consequences.GÇ¥ Haritimado: GÇ£I see. So, just to get you right, do you say there is a tolerable degree of freedom? Or should we just skip the whole word and rather talk about GÇÿindividualsGÇÖ which are always only existing in relation to public servitude?GÇ¥ [GÇª] Kim: GÇ£How can you make a degree of freedom, if you set at least one law? If you set any norm, or create any bond. It wonGÇÖt be a freedom anymore, and with such bond claiming you have a freedom would be a delusion, like gallenteans love to make. I think freedom is both bad word and both bad concept.GÇ¥ Character blog: Horizons and Reflections
Haria Haritimado Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.12.24 15:34:42 - [24] - Quote GÇ£This is an extreme example of a very narrow and undisputable concept of freedom. She was so focused on rivalry toward the Gallante, that it was hard to bear. And IGÇÖm very well aware of the history of both nations. But on the other hand, from what she said and from what others I talked with stated, I could find some deeper understanding. Everything she says is related to things that happened in her past. It has a personal meaning, a history. And even if I donGÇÖt share every idea, it is understandable how it came this way. Even more unsettling was the fact that she showed some very deep dedication to the cause of our people, but at the same time she appeared tired to me, nearly fatalistic. She surrendered to a certain role she propably never wanted.GÇ¥ Quote: Haritimado: GÇ£I asked my self many times, what you are thinking about the role and importancy of personal friendship. Because you are so dedicated to our State and increasingly regarded as a lone wolf. But how do you value personal friendships?GÇ¥ Kim: GÇ£We are kind of forced to beGÇª lone wolves. As capsuleers, we live and die alone, in hydrostatic capsules. We live in solitary quarters. But on other hand, if we serve corporations, if we serve the State, all our citizens become our personal friends. We live and die for them. And if you can sacrifice your own life for other, isnGÇÖt it the best estimate for a value?GÇ¥ [GÇª] GÇ£Some offspring should be honed and cultivated. Others GÇô sent to war and killed. ThereGÇÖs nothing wrong in this, we all play our roles, and our duty is to die with honor for others to live.GÇ¥ GÇ£One person I questioned about Diana Kim said, he would like to see her recover and catch up but he saw her GÇÿlocked in Hethian stasisGÇÖ, as he called it. I suddenly understood when I met her. Anyway, when I adressed it, she left a door open for her personal future.GÇ¥ Quote: Haritimado: GÇ£Some of the people I had the chance to question about their view on Diana Kim stated, that they feel sympathy for her and would like to see her overcome the present unpleasant situation. From their perspective, time has changed, but Diana Kim remained basically the same. This could be understood from a political perspective. You would be called a conservative then. But I was surprised that they adressed the matter on a personal level. [GÇª] Many perceive you as a suffering individual, increasingly left alone and forsaken by public sympathy. They would like to see youGÇª recover or somehowGÇª come back to them. How do you feel about this?GÇ¥ Kim: GÇ£I donGÇÖt think I am suffering anymore. I have suffered enough, and what was suffering died out. I donGÇÖt look for public sympathy and thereGÇÖs just nothing left inside me to recoverGÇª As for changingGÇª I think I have changed lately enough. If there will be a requirement, I will change again.GÇ¥ GÇ£I would like to close now with two biddings. One toward Diana Kim and one toward the audience, which I hopefully did not offend or unnerve.GÇ¥ GÇ£Sure, go ahead, Ms. Haritimado!GÇ¥ GÇ£To Diana Kim I would like to say: refrain from being just a tool! Reinvent yourself within the present situation and beyond the constraints of politics. I know IGÇÖm not the first person to say this, but anyway. You said you would change again if necessary. What does this really mean? GÇô And toward the audience: give other capsuleers the chance to see behind your mere statements and positions. Fueling ongoing conflicts seems to be below our dignity and mission. And if violence against each other for whatever causes seem to be inevitable, let us quickly resolve it and remember, that there may come the need to join for a common cause in the future. Resentments and conflicts make us inflexible. And I share Diana KimGÇÖs thought, that we must remain flexible and ready to adapt, no matter the cost.GÇ¥ GÇ£Thank you, Ms. Haritimado, for your time and shared thoughts on capsuleers. We keep the channel open for further comments but will proceed to our next topic soon. Stay tuned with NCP Daily!GÇ¥ Haria Haritimado is bid farewell and the show continues. Character blog: Horizons and Reflections
Aedre Lafisques Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 6	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:37:38 - [25] - Quote I've spoken to Kim only once. She was pleasant and we discussed the particulars of bar fights and their psychological uses. Not that either of us knew, or probably still know anything about them. It seems silly, but I hold onto that exchange. I know all about Kim besides this, I've witnessed her inflammatory statements and posturing that has threatened to upset me, but mostly made me consider that she speaks for at least some people. That there are frustrations and misunderstandings and threats that we pose that are seen as very real. She's respectable in her passion. I don't like what her passion is for and I think it hurts herself more than it helps anyone else. I don't define 'freedom' the way she does, and I don't think a lot of people do. But when I see a clear response from her about something, I'm not entirely philosophically alienated. I get it, though I don't like that it is usually followed by a call for genocide. It hurts her perfectly reasonable arguments for Caldari solidarity, culture, philosophy I think. Philosophy about why anyone should want to live in stratified communities. There is a certain culture of 'wild abandon' that I grew up with that I could very easily understand to be terrifying even to some cultures within the Federation, let alone a Caldari conservative. I know how concerning some of the issues with freedom are. Sometimes I'm concerned about them myself. Our definition of freedom is still the path that I choose to back, but I'll never say it's infallible. That would be disingenuous. We've chosen a very difficult and complicated thing to try to be, something that may never be well-defined or finished. I'm not sure why we wanted to do things the hard way, but that's who we are, and I feel we should continue to conduct ourselves in its interest. Nobody wants to hear this kind of 'tolerance' from a Militia member of course (in before 'but you've killed thousands', which I would refute to some degree), but I think this kind of pigeonholing is in line with the topic at hand. I don't have to demonize my 'enemy' just because I work for the militia. I don't consider that responsible - resisting that makes my job very difficult, and I don't enjoy what I do. But I'm a civilian relations officer - if I don't stay, then the front loses someone that isn't in this explicitly for personal reasons. What difference does one person make? Not much, but if I don't believe in what I'm doing outside the pod, then I don't believe helping is helping. We are invaders in some cases, relievers in others, and simply an unwanted nuisance in most of the rest. In some cases, my team is the only one that is sent to talk to them. A lot of people have very real, sensitive reasons for fighting here. There's a certain point where I can't expect someone to simply let go because it is 'time'. What the hell do I know? I have always had a bit of sympathy for Kim on her side without ever knowing any of her story. I can pretty safely assume she has one. A lot of people involved in the conflict just do. It's inhumane to expect people to be reasonable, I've noticed. An open heart means a blind eye a lot of the time, and in some cases requires what should be a reluctant decision to do the opposite. It takes a lot of work to bridge divides and make sense of any of this, or worse, try to make anyone truly involved sensible. Ultimately, no matter how much we fight each other, we also need to be looking out for those of us that are injured by the war. It's idealist sure, but if we lose all the idealists, we, especially in the Federation, no longer have anything that holds us together. If we don't have vision, and that vision isn't ultimately positive, then I venture to say we don't have much of anything as we lack the greater group that holds the other empires together. Company, God, Tribe - To rally solely behind 'Freedom' isn't right - the Federation is not 'about' freedom any more than the Amarrian religion is 'about' slaves. What happened to our Vision?
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 4378	Posted - 2014.12.25 08:02:28 - [26] - Quote Aedre Lafisques wrote: Nobody wants to hear this kind of 'tolerance' from a Militia member of course (in before 'but you've killed thousands', which I would refute to some degree), but I think this kind of pigeonholing is in line with the topic at hand. I don't have to demonize my 'enemy' just because I work for the militia. I don't consider that responsible - resisting that makes my job very difficult, and I don't enjoy what I do. But I'm a civilian relations officer - if I don't stay, then the front loses someone that isn't in this explicitly for personal reasons. What difference does one person make? Not much, but if I don't believe in what I'm doing outside the pod, then I don't believe helping is helping. We are invaders in some cases, relievers in others, and simply an unwanted nuisance in most of the rest. In some cases, my team is the only one that is sent to talk to them. This is probably the most 'real' vision of the Faction War that I've seen from a militia pilot of any side. I was always struck by the stations, with their magnetic signage that can be swapped between Napaani or Garoun, their hassled looking staff who deliberately affect speech without hint of accent and don't like making eye contact. What exactly happens to a capsuleer who punches a waitress, anyway? Not a whole lot, sadly. Not a lot. I long gave up the belief that we're doing much good for the people - unless we could hold onto a system permanently. The best we do is give people a chance to get out of that part of space and hop a transport back to civilised parts. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..."
James Syagrius Reclamation Technologies 939	Posted - 2014.12.26 18:27:11 - [27] - Quote Jukko Riis wrote: Extremism in any form can be dangerous, and unwise. A very wise man once said, "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! " GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Jukko Riis Black Rise Colonial Exploration 32	Posted - 2014.12.26 19:33:34 - [28] - Quote James Syagrius wrote: Jukko Riis wrote: Extremism in any form can be dangerous, and unwise. A very wise man once said, "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! " I said it can be dangerous and unwise. I'll agree that sometimes you have to fly a red flag and let the bodies fall where they may. "Liberty" is an illusion. It's a mouse in a maze trying to decide on which piece of cheese is best and saying how happy he is to have a choice. Extremism in the pursuit of justice is merely revenge. Justice is made by the patient and dedicated. It is an act of will, not passion.
Quattras Peione Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 34	Posted - 2014.12.26 20:30:07 - [29] - Quote The Commander and I have discussed these matters on several occasions. I respect her greatly and while I think she would bristle at the suggestion, I consider us friendly acquaintances - actual friendship seems moot at this juncture. The idea that "freedom" means a total lack of restraint is not an uncommon misconception within the State, an error that I believe stems from liberties taken with early translations of Gallente political works. The point with which I like to counter is that in a society defined by its laws, an individual who behaves in accordance with these laws is simply doing as they are told. In a society without such strictures, the individual who follows a path of decency and kindness is doing so out of conscience. It is only when we are free to be bad that we can truly be good.
Sammie Mernher Dutch East Querious Company Phoebe Freeport Republic 0	Posted - 2014.12.26 23:02:05 - [30] - Quote you people sicken me, using poor Kim as a scapegoat for any and all your problems.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 4386	Posted - 2014.12.26 23:08:43 - [31] - Quote James Syagrius wrote: Jukko Riis wrote: Extremism in any form can be dangerous, and unwise. A very wise man once said, "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! " And then he orbitally bombarded civilians. Let ME remind you that evil done in the name of good is NOT good and that good done in the service of evil is still evil. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..."
Claudia Osyn Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 1019	Posted - 2014.12.26 23:09:47 - [32] - Quote Sammie Mernher wrote: you people sicken me, using poor Kim as a scapegoat for any and all your problems. Nope, she deserves the blame for everything. For instance, I stubbed my toe and it's all her fault.... The lack of money is the root of all evil.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 247	Posted - 2014.12.27 01:17:42 - [33] - Quote Quattras Peione wrote: The Commander and I have discussed these matters on several occasions. I respect her greatly and while I think she would bristle at the suggestion, I consider us friendly acquaintances - actual friendship seems moot at this juncture. The idea that "freedom" means a total lack of restraint is not an uncommon misconception within the State, an error that I believe stems from liberties taken with early translations of Gallente political works. The point with which I like to counter is that in a society defined by its laws, an individual who behaves in accordance with these laws is simply doing as they are told. In a society without such strictures, the individual who follows a path of decency and kindness is doing so out of conscience. It is only when we are free to be bad that we can truly be good. There is freedom. And then there is anarchy. Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
Ponder Rouge Affinor American Made Inc. Ushra'Khan 16	Posted - 2014.12.27 01:48:53 - [34] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: Sammie Mernher wrote: you people sicken me, using poor Kim as a scapegoat for any and all your problems. Nope, she deserves the blame for everything. For instance, I stubbed my toe and it's all her fault.... All movements and ideals need a figure head. If it weren't her then it'd be someone else.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 226	Posted - 2014.12.27 01:52:46 - [35] - Quote Who is following her? Rather, who is making it known they are?
Claudia Osyn Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 1031	Posted - 2014.12.27 02:16:06 - [36] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Who is following her? Rather, who is making it known they are? Quite a few people, it seems... I wonder if my fan base is this large.... The lack of money is the root of all evil.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 229	Posted - 2014.12.27 02:17:47 - [37] - Quote Well... too bad they arent in calmil it seems...
Quattras Peione Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 35	Posted - 2014.12.27 03:20:16 - [38] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: There is freedom. And then there is anarchy. Precisely my point. Thank you sir.
James Syagrius Reclamation Technologies 941	Posted - 2014.12.27 07:22:16 - [39] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: James Syagrius wrote: Jukko Riis wrote: Extremism in any form can be dangerous, and unwise. A very wise man once said, "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! " And then he orbitally bombarded civilians. Let ME remind you that evil done in the name of good is NOT good and that good done in the service of evil is still evil. Indeed Pieter, history teaches many lessons. But look to your own house and we will look to ours. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Miyamoto Takedi State Protectorate Caldari State 22	Posted - 2014.12.27 17:32:33 - [40] - Quote Wendrika Hydreiga wrote: Leave Miss Kim alone! Obvious sock puppet is obvious. That is all.
Wendrika Hydreiga 205	Posted - 2014.12.27 22:16:56 - [41] - Quote Miyamoto Takedi wrote: Wendrika Hydreiga wrote: Leave Miss Kim alone! Obvious sock puppet is obvious. That is all. If I were Miss Kim, you would bet your socks I would be droping the hammer on those dastardly Gallente! But I'm not, so I do science stuff instead! In fact, you're the sock puppet! Silly sock puppet, being all puppet like and calling other people sock puppets!
Evi Polevhia Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 706	Posted - 2014.12.27 22:24:31 - [42] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: And then he orbitally bombarded civilians. Let ME remind you that evil done in the name of good is NOT good and that good done in the service of evil is still evil. You are terribly black and white about your opinions on black and white, dear.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 4389	Posted - 2014.12.27 23:07:13 - [43] - Quote Evi Polevhia wrote: Pieter Tuulinen wrote: And then he orbitally bombarded civilians. Let ME remind you that evil done in the name of good is NOT good and that good done in the service of evil is still evil. You are terribly black and white about your opinions on black and white, dear. At least I don't have to wander further than the rec room to have a conversation with you about it now. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..."
Andreus Ixiris Duty. Circle-Of-Two 5254	Posted - 2014.12.28 14:58:39 - [44] - Quote Quattras Peione wrote: The idea that "freedom" means a total lack of restraint is not an uncommon misconception within the State Yes it is. It's incredibly uncommon, to the point of the person in question being the only Caldari capsuleer who has ever espoused it. Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all. Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus. Andreus Ixiris > ... Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 250	Posted - 2014.12.29 01:41:41 - [45] - Quote Andreus Ixiris wrote: Quattras Peione wrote: The idea that "freedom" means a total lack of restraint is not an uncommon misconception within the State Yes it is. It's incredibly uncommon, to the point of the person in question being the only Caldari capsuleer who has ever espoused it. Because otherwise how could she continue to convince herself that the Gallenteans aren't humans? Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
Quattras Peione Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 36	Posted - 2014.12.29 06:37:09 - [46] - Quote Just because a society is free in its own way does not mean that its concept of said freedom will match another's. We have always accepted personal freedom as a given, and not a cause to be rallied behind. If you haven't noticed, we are a very practical people. As such, the idea of "freedom" as a goal was somewhat alien to us. Keep in mind that this dates from when our two cultures first interacted, and my own was still emerging from the dark ages. Commander Kim shows here what we in the academic community would call "confirmation bias." She has sources for her ideas, but they are all conveniently chosen to go along with her very narrow world-view. Pretty much anything that made the Heth regime's "approved reading material" list.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 251	Posted - 2014.12.29 09:57:07 - [47] - Quote Quattras Peione wrote: Just because a society is free in its own way does not mean that its concept of said freedom will match another's. We have always accepted personal freedom as a given, and not a cause to be rallied behind. If you haven't noticed, we are a very practical people. As such, the idea of "freedom" as a goal was somewhat alien to us. Keep in mind that this dates from when our two cultures first interacted, and my own was still emerging from the dark ages. Commander Kim shows here what we in the academic community would call "confirmation bias." She has sources for her ideas, but they are all conveniently chosen to go along with her very narrow world-view. Pretty much anything that made the Heth regime's "approved reading material" list. Yep. Exactly that. She really isn't that different from a kooky cultist or a single-star universe adherent. I sure hope she doesn't become anything like the latter. Single-Starrers are insane! Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
Haria Haritimado Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 17	Posted - 2014.12.29 12:04:09 - [48] - Quote Thank you all, for your replies. I'm surprised, that this topic is still frequented after some not so favourable replies in the beginning. I start to realize, though, that the discussion circles around only two aspects of the initial title. Patriotism (freedom) and Strike Commander Diana Kim. Maybe the notoriety is not about DIana Kim but her constant reappearance as a subject of discussions. I would like to underline the third aspect which is not so prominent in the discussion until now: hope. As one of the first answerer said: Leave Diana Kim alone. I'm inclined to read this as the invitation to look ahead, past Diana Kim, and at each other. If the Strike Commander is right and she's foretelling the future correctly, war between Gallante and Caldari will be inevitable. And inevitable will be the need to prepare for war, technically and emotionally. I would like to ask you: what is our responsibility as capsuleers in regard to this prospect? Read 'hope' as a puny attempt to encourage dialogue. Cross the borders between rival nations or factions as long as it is still possible for you. Stop by, have a look at the details of everyday life of the perceived 'adversaries'. How are their citizens and our citizens are actually living on planets, colonies, and stations? Where are differences, where are similarities? Maybe you even consider pairing up with someone who just objected your own ideas in this very discussion. Maybe go ahead and invite him or her personally. We are a small and benefited community and personal relationships are the best and strongest ties in order to shape future conflicts in mutual interest and understanding. It is my belief that we capsuleers may have an impact on future conflicts. But even more impact on how we solve it with reason and awareness. H. Haritimado Character blog: Horizons and Reflections
Andreus Ixiris Duty. Circle-Of-Two 5255	Posted - 2014.12.29 12:22:46 - [49] - Quote Haria Haritimado wrote: If the Strike Commander is right and she's foretelling the future correctly, ... it would certainly be a first. I'm sorry, Haritimado, but anyone who says this sentence for any reason other than comedy has absolutely no credibility whatsoever. Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all. Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus. Andreus Ixiris > ... Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 251	Posted - 2014.12.29 15:10:59 - [50] - Quote Haria Haritimado wrote: Thank you all, for your replies. I'm surprised, that this topic is still frequented after some not so favourable replies in the beginning. I start to realize, though, that the discussion circles around only two aspects of the initial title. Patriotism (freedom) and Strike Commander Diana Kim. Maybe the notoriety is not about DIana Kim but her constant reappearance as a subject of discussions. I would like to underline the third aspect which is not so prominent in the discussion until now: hope. As one of the first answerer said: Leave Diana Kim alone. I'm inclined to read this as the invitation to look ahead, past Diana Kim, and at each other. If the Strike Commander is right and she's foretelling the future correctly, war between Gallante and Caldari will be inevitable. And inevitable will be the need to prepare for war, technically and emotionally. I would like to ask you: what is our responsibility as capsuleers in regard to this prospect? Read 'hope' as a puny attempt to encourage dialogue. Cross the borders between rival nations or factions as long as it is still possible for you. Stop by, have a look at the details of everyday life of the perceived 'adversaries'. How are their citizens and our citizens are actually living on planets, colonies, and stations? Where are differences, where are similarities? Maybe you even consider pairing up with someone who just objected your own ideas in this very discussion. Maybe go ahead and invite him or her personally. We are a small and benefited community and personal relationships are the best and strongest ties in order to shape future conflicts in mutual interest and understanding. It is my belief that we capsuleers may have an impact on future conflicts. But even more impact on how we solve it with reason and awareness. H. Haritimado You should, perhaps, forward this message to Diana Kim. Also, unless you had been living under a rock, the State and the Feds had just left war and are trying to make nice with each other. Both sides are currently war-weary, and the State especially is sick of Heth and the Provist. It's only Kim who seem to insist that the war must continue. And yes, those who had dealt with Kim personally are also sick of having to hear her going on and on and on about how the Gallenteans are subhumans worthy of genocide and that she just keeps. Hijacking. Discussions. You should perhaps sit down opposite of her and listen to her talk for about 30 minutes. If she doesn't start rabble-rousing, sneak in the word 'Gallente' or 'Freedom' and then hit the bottle. Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
Eojek Starlight Moly 24	Posted - 2014.12.29 16:42:29 - [51] - Quote According to an ancient book by one Mr. Hobbes. Full freedom, [people] in their natural state, who have complete freedom are constantly in a state of [conflict]. Their lives are both miserable, violent, and short. This is because people with complete freedom are entitled to steal, murder, and pillage in order to fulfill their desires. This may be to expand their domain, defend their domain. or simply for the sake of glory. People trade some freedom for security via a society. A society, or group of likeminded individuals, will give up some of their individual freedoms in order to better secure themselves and their interests. A social contract is formed where one gives up the right to do whatever one wants to their neighbor in order generate greater individual security. A person who resides in a reasonably well functioning society (such as a capsulier corporation) trades some freedoms in exchange for a haven. If you would like to read more, here is a digital copy from my family's archive. --[galnet_link]-- http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hobbes-moral/ --/galnet_link--
Veikitamo Gesakaarin Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 1672	Posted - 2015.01.01 21:46:41 - [52] - Quote Haria Haritimado wrote: As one of the first answerer said: Leave Diana Kim alone. I'm inclined to read this as the invitation to look ahead, past Diana Kim, and at each other. If the Strike Commander is right and she's foretelling the future correctly, war between Gallante and Caldari will be inevitable. And inevitable will be the need to prepare for war, technically and emotionally. I would like to ask you: what is our responsibility as capsuleers in regard to this prospect? Read 'hope' as a puny attempt to encourage dialogue. I fail to see any inevitability as regards foreign policy of the Caldari State when its domestic politics in recent history has no real basis in any form of certainty. The Caldari State in the past almost decade has the dubious distinction of being the only society in which large segments of its population have officially been traitors, then patriots, and sometimes to again be traitors only to be patriots. For example, someone like Diana Kim could be said to be a patriot, but only in the period in which Tibus Heth was also a patriot and State Executor from YC 110 until Tibus Heth was a traitor in YC 115 at Haatamo. Of course, Tibus Heth was himself a traitor before he was a patriot and State Executor due to his having lead the revolt at Piak. Much like the rioters at Kassigainen and the Brothers of Freedom were traitors for doing much the same until under the CPD they were patriots and the vanguards of the New Meritocracy -- and today are again traitors. Even Mens Reppola and Ishukone as a whole were implied to be traitors to the State due to their lack of support of the CPD until they are now patriots for negotiating with the Federal Senate over Arcurio and Caldari Prime -- no wait, they might still be traitors due to that, or perhaps they are patriots... who knows, the whole Patriot-Traitor political superpositions in the Caldari State probably needs better explanation with Quantum Mechanics and as such I think only a fool would talk of any sort of certainty or inevitability due to it.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 260	Posted - 2015.01.02 01:35:21 - [53] - Quote Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote: Haria Haritimado wrote: As one of the first answerer said: Leave Diana Kim alone. I'm inclined to read this as the invitation to look ahead, past Diana Kim, and at each other. If the Strike Commander is right and she's foretelling the future correctly, war between Gallante and Caldari will be inevitable. And inevitable will be the need to prepare for war, technically and emotionally. I would like to ask you: what is our responsibility as capsuleers in regard to this prospect? Read 'hope' as a puny attempt to encourage dialogue. I fail to see any inevitability as regards foreign policy of the Caldari State when its domestic politics in recent history has no real basis in any form of certainty. The Caldari State in the past almost decade has the dubious distinction of being the only society in which large segments of its population have officially been traitors, then patriots, and sometimes to again be traitors only to be patriots. For example, someone like Diana Kim could be said to be a patriot, but only in the period in which Tibus Heth was also a patriot and State Executor from YC 110 until Tibus Heth was a traitor in YC 115 at Haatamo. Of course, Tibus Heth was himself a traitor before he was a patriot and State Executor due to his having lead the revolt at Piak. Much like the rioters at Kassigainen and the Brothers of Freedom were traitors for doing much the same until under the CPD they were patriots and the vanguards of the New Meritocracy -- and today are again traitors. Even Mens Reppola and Ishukone as a whole were implied to be traitors to the State due to their lack of support of the CPD until they are now patriots for negotiating with the Federal Senate over Arcurio and Caldari Prime -- no wait, they might still be traitors due to that, or perhaps they are patriots... who knows, the whole Patriot-Traitor political superpositions in the Caldari State probably needs better explanation with Quantum Mechanics and as such I think only a fool would talk of any sort of certainty or inevitability due to it. I guess stuff like that can happen when every aspect of life is governed by the upper echelons of corporate society. Including the media. Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 1673	Posted - 2015.01.02 05:44:16 - [54] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: I guess stuff like that can happen when every aspect of life is governed by the upper echelons of corporate society. Including the media. The history of the Caldari people is replete with the examples of the injustices and persecutions faced by the innocent due to corrupt officials. And just as with the Raata Empire and the Cathura rebellions so with the Caldari State and its labour revolts culminating in the CPD. That widespread civil unrest, rebellion, and revolt are always the natural consequences of political disenfranchisement, repression, and draconian laws created by corrupt officials lacking in any form of accountability to be enforced through punitive violence is often glossed over by the intellectuals in Megacorporate media-propaganda divisions such as Lai Dai Press or Echelon Entertainment in favour of the rose-tinted romantic versions of the Caldari past that justify the status quo of corporate power in the State.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 4402	Posted - 2015.01.02 06:16:04 - [55] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: I guess stuff like that can happen when every aspect of life is governed by the upper echelons of corporate society. Including the media. As a member of the FDU, you'll certainly understand what it's like to live in a world governed by the news cycle. But nothing about life in the State, I assure you. So, if you have specific questions, just ask them and be assured that, otherwise, the least you say the smartest you look. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..."
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 260	Posted - 2015.01.02 06:20:56 - [56] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: I guess stuff like that can happen when every aspect of life is governed by the upper echelons of corporate society. Including the media. As a member of the FDU, you'll certainly understand what it's like to live in a world governed by the news cycle. But nothing about life in the State, I assure you. So, if you have specific questions, just ask them and be assured that, otherwise, the least you say the smartest you look. I actually turn off the news for most parts and only tune in for a digest once a week. Most of the news in Gallente Federation is rubbish. Way too much sensationalisation and matters of no consequence. Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
KaRa DaVuT Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance 60	Posted - 2015.01.02 11:12:15 - [57] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: I'm betting 20isk Kim's response is going to be longer than what is directly written about her.... grabs popcorn, throws a kernel in the air, misses mouth Indeed you are. But Pieter also shows up as an advocate of the cause... as he generally do
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 261	Posted - 2015.01.02 14:57:20 - [58] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: I guess stuff like that can happen when every aspect of life is governed by the upper echelons of corporate society. Including the media. As a member of the FDU, you'll certainly understand what it's like to live in a world governed by the news cycle. But nothing about life in the State, I assure you. So, if you have specific questions, just ask them and be assured that, otherwise, the least you say the smartest you look. I actually turn off the news for most parts and only tune in for a digest once a week. Most of the news in Gallente Federation is rubbish. Way too much sensationalisation and matters of no consequence. Just to add though. I can't ask specific questions about the State because I do not know what to ask at all. I do not really know anything about the State beyond the surface info regarding corporate meritocracies and such; things anyone who has heard of the State would also know. Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 4402	Posted - 2015.01.03 04:45:43 - [59] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: I guess stuff like that can happen when every aspect of life is governed by the upper echelons of corporate society. Including the media. As a member of the FDU, you'll certainly understand what it's like to live in a world governed by the news cycle. But nothing about life in the State, I assure you. So, if you have specific questions, just ask them and be assured that, otherwise, the least you say the smartest you look. I actually turn off the news for most parts and only tune in for a digest once a week. Most of the news in Gallente Federation is rubbish. Way too much sensationalisation and matters of no consequence. Just to add though. I can't ask specific questions about the State because I do not know what to ask at all. I do not really know anything about the State beyond the surface info regarding corporate meritocracies and such; things anyone who has heard of the State would also know. It's all in the details, of course. The big picture is usually an illusion. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..."
Nalena Linova Project Kairos Heiian Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.01.08 14:37:57 - [60] - Quote I would like to clarify what seems to be a misconception held by the media and public: Commander Kim is by no means a pariah among the members of the State Protectorate. While the views expressed in her private life do not necessarily represent the official position of the State Protectorate, she does enjoy a lot of support from individuals within its ranks. I accept that her views may no longer be compatible with those of wider Caldari society, but the men and women enlisted in the State Protectorate are largely patriotic in their political leanings, for obvious reasons, and have little love for the Gallente or their way of life.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 4420	Posted - 2015.01.08 19:48:02 - [61] - Quote Nalena Linova wrote: I would like to clarify what seems to be a misconception held by the media and public: Commander Kim is by no means a pariah among the members of the State Protectorate. While the views expressed in her private life do not necessarily represent the official position of the State Protectorate, she does enjoy a lot of support from individuals within its ranks. I accept that her views may no longer be compatible with those of wider Caldari society, but the men and women enlisted in the State Protectorate are largely patriotic in their political leanings, for obvious reasons, and have little love for the Gallente or their way of life. As a State Citizen in the Patriot Bloc, I've always admired Citizen Kim's record of devoted service, but I'm also keen that my politics not be confused with Provist politics. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..."
Claudia Osyn Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 1056	Posted - 2015.01.08 21:54:03 - [62] - Quote You know what shocks and amazes most about this thread? Kim is mentioned repeatedly and she still hasn't posted in here.... The lack of money is the root of all evil.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 276	Posted - 2015.01.09 02:18:20 - [63] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: You know what shocks and amazes most about this thread? Kim is mentioned repeatedly and she still hasn't posted in here.... She's probably busy writing anti-Gallente pamphlets. I can't imagine it being easy writing enough to distribute to every State citizen. Would very much love to cobble anyone who insinuates that I am a loyalist in the head with a 125mm calibre Fusion round.
Vapor Ventrillian The Scope Gallente Federation 150	Posted - 2015.01.09 02:59:13 - [64] - Quote is watching the program and has said HUZZAH! on more then a couple of occasions continues watching.. The Evil Overlord of Scope, self elected as all good overlords should be
Liam Antolliere University of Caille Gallente Federation 245	Posted - 2015.01.09 21:31:39 - [65] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: You know what shocks and amazes most about this thread? Kim is mentioned repeatedly and she still hasn't posted in here.... It shouldn't surprise you. Of her many traits, narcissism is not one I would attribute her. "Let it never be said that I have not been true to myself and, in so doing, true to those around me."
Claudia Osyn Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 1058	Posted - 2015.01.09 21:38:36 - [66] - Quote Liam Antolliere wrote: Claudia Osyn wrote: You know what shocks and amazes most about this thread? Kim is mentioned repeatedly and she still hasn't posted in here.... It shouldn't surprise you. Of her many traits, narcissism is not one I would attribute her. I was thinking more along the lines of her showing up to decry the Federation again. Maybe even "correct" some poor misguided people about the "true nature of the federation" and why it must be destroyed... The lack of money is the root of all evil.

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