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What do you think of customer support ?

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General Shock Caldari The Forsakened Companions	Posted - 2006.09.12 10:52:00 - [1] Are there other people that get frustrated with customer support and the time it takes to address a petition ? Good luck with a reimbursement petition for example... it takes weeks before they get back to you ... and then in most cases you'll get a "we are sorry but we can't verify this, but we wish you better luck next time" Bragging about the 30k users online mark being reached; but they have in no way a customer support to deal with all the "traffic" efficiently. I find that very frustrating. We are paying customers after all.
Xendie Hunter Killers	Posted - 2006.09.12 10:54:00 - [2] customer support was good once but now its crap. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.12 10:54:00 - [3] My one petition ever was a reimbursment one, and it did take weeks, but despite only being worth about 1.5M I got a profuse apology for the delay, so I was happy enough. ----------
Lt Angus Caldari Sigma-Defect	Posted - 2006.09.12 10:58:00 - [4] Edited by: Lt Angus on 12/09/2006 10:58:24 only ever used it once, was good
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:09:00 - [5] Customer support in Eve as in most of the real world is screwed over by asshat customers making ridiculous petitions and generally being retards.... But thats just my view Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
General Mount Caldari Blueprint Haus	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:13:00 - [6] My last 3 petitions got a reply within 3 hours of posting each. I'm very happy with customer support.
Majutsu S.Y.N.D	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:14:00 - [7] Banned without warning or explanation, took 3/4 days got an apology and a refund. Happy it was sorted in the end, not too surprised in the delay given it's such a big game, would have liked to be kept informed a little better tho.
Firequill Gallente The Black Ops	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:15:00 - [8] Edited by: Firequill on 12/09/2006 11:16:09 customer support in this game is.. how can i put it bluntly.. Pre-emptive! Eve has few true game-stoppers, if any. (swg anyone?) I'd rather take a delayed answer to one petition than quick ones to 10. Better to have the man-power making sure there are few bugs than having them apologising for their presence.
Al Thorr Caldari The Wheel	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:22:00 - [9] I like the words . 'Customer' is sort of like meaning people and mankind. 'Support' is like giving relief ,help , and maybe comfort. So Its like the two words go really together. especially if you put customer and support in that order. Yup if you're helping people who are your customers. than thats what you should call yourself. - Definately "You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
Feng Zi	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:25:00 - [10] Originally by: General Mount My last 3 petitions got a reply within 3 hours of posting each. I'm very happy with customer support. This is the only type of post CCP tends to read. I don't think customer service is completely dropping the ball, but I don't think they are as good as they could be either. I've had 1 petition (stuck) answered quickly, but a coupla others completely ignored for weeks. As an example: I at one time thought I had lost some ships by cancelling market orders. I didn't know about the "corp delivery" setup at the time. Instead of getting the "just look here" email, I never got a response AT ALL. How long could it possibly take to respond to this simple problem? Instead of just taking a minute to respond, they chose to just ignore it completely. This problem didn't need research or whatever, it just required the attention of a competent service rep that's aware of game mechanics. Bottom line is, as long as they (CCP) continue to believe that the "masses" are happy, they'll continue with game development and ignore existing issues. At least that's my opinion.
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:32:00 - [11] Quote: How long could it possibly take to respond to this simple problem? Instead of just taking a minute to respond, they chose to just ignore it completely. No, they didn't chose to ignore it. What happened was your problem got added to a queue of several dozen problems that were all just as important as yours in the eyes of the GM's. They didn't get to your petition until they cleared those ahead of you. Maybe if people stopped petitioning every ship loss that involved lag (which, 99% of the time, aren't reimbursed) the petition queue wouldn't be so horrifyingly large and EVERYONE could enjoy faster customer service. The new BFG.
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:35:00 - [12] My own experiences have been OK - stuck petitions, isk seller spam reportings etc have been resolved within minutes. Ship reimbursement is another story, but it's well known that those sorts of issues are pretty low on CCP's list, so meh. /Ben
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:36:00 - [13] well i must have been lucky then. so far the replies have been ok, (never asked a refund tho) - Tides of Silence recruiting miners and overall fun people
Dixon Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:38:00 - [14] Reimbursement petitions are being spammed to the max. The petition queue is a player-created problem that players tend to whine about. Kinda like BM copying and POS lag. - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other...
Lemoning Lemming	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:39:00 - [15] My experiences with customer support have been very very poor. I just do not bother anymore it is not worth the aggro in my opinion and the long long waits to be told NO.
Taaketa Frist The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:46:00 - [16] Edited by: Taaketa Frist on 12/09/2006 11:47:11 I have to my recollection never sent a reimbursment petition. (never had the need to) I have sent a few bug reports. One exploit. And a tonne of harassment petitions. The last 2 have always been answered in good time (20minutes - 1 hour) with a Thankyou and "we're looking into this now." I am very statified with the customer service and support ccp offer. Edit: I'm guess anyone who complains about the long waiting time is because you've only just sent a reimbursment petition and you have no idea what is required for a GM to do to solve the petition (put it this way, if you send in a petition that says "OMGWTF MY SHIP JUST GOT KILLED FIX IT." - don't expect a reply.) -------------- Dang nabit
Feng Zi	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Xelios Maybe if people stopped petitioning every ship loss that involved lag Lag...you said it yourself. Which goes right back to the origin of the problem. If they STOPPED game development, and addressed current issues, perhaps some of the losses (and resulting petitions) could be avoided entirely.
Flax Volcanus Tea And Sympathy Ltd. Liability	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:48:00 - [18] Edited by: Flax Volcanus on 12/09/2006 11:53:06 I was very surprised last week when a mission petition was answered within a few hours. GM Huggin was great -- he/she apologized profusely and fixed everything right away. That said, it's obvious that the system is overwhelmed and not functioning as it should. I feel epecially bad for peeps who are losing big assets to lag-induced havoc, as well as the overburdened GMs. No, my ire is not directed toward the CS folks, but toward mods who delete complaint threads -- including the official stickies -- without any apparent reason or response. That's spineless.
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:48:00 - [19] All my petitions were answered very quickly, but I've never filed a reimbursement petition. As said above, customer support is working and the petition system isn't the problem - it's just the thousands of players asking for a reimbursement who have to wait till it's their turn to get their petition is handled.
Gottchen The Department of Justice	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:48:00 - [20] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Customer support in Eve as in most of the real world is screwed over by asshat customers making ridiculous petitions and generally being retards.... But thats just my view Alliaanna not only yours. as for me: never needed any support. only once 800k went down the drain when a freshly bought mod did not appear in my hangar 5 minutes before the server crashed. the seller got the isk, so i kindly asked if he could reimburse my loss. 2 hours later i not only had the item, but some nice t2 gear on top of it so, before spamming out petitions, think twice! "You 0utbreak people need to stop posting, I'm finding it hard to leave the thread." QFT
Scrofalitic One Total Warehouse Logistics Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:49:00 - [21] I have had nothing but good experiences of CCP customer support. Of copurse i don't bopther filing reimbursement petitions every time someone kills me, so that probably helps. I've probably filed a dozen or so petitions in the 16 monbths or so I've been playing, some (for example stuck/broken missions, or stuck in systems due to crashes, severly abusive morons in local) were answered very VERY quickly. The others (namely the few reimbursement petitions I have made) were answered slower it is true, but always in a firendly and helpful manner. In short, EVERY communication I have had with GM's has been helpful, polite and friendly. So yeah, CCP & customer service have in my experience been very well linked.
Horoc'h Ryydell	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:51:00 - [22] OP's petition could be solved ingame by himselve by just asking in the help-channel or in the corp, probably. Good reason for letting it wait imho Better think before petitioning... as long as stuck and harasment is dealt with fast I am happy... just think about the time wasted with those petitions: one petition that 'only needs a short answer" would take about 5 minutes for CCP... a thousand of those would take them 10 days, or 10 workers on one day... (1000petitions*5min/60min/8hours (working day... a very effictive one...)
JOSEPHx Caldari Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:52:00 - [23] I think CCP customer support is fantastic, always get a quick reply from a GM if needed and so what if you have to wait a week or 2 for a reimbursement petition, its hardly the end of the world. (Never petitioned for a lag loss, it happens so rarely i just accept that as part of the game). I guess you just got to chill out and take the rare bit of rough with the majority bit of smooth. --
Sulavan	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Customer support in Eve as in most of the real world is screwed over by asshat customers making ridiculous petitions and generally being retards.... But thats just my view Alliaanna Never thought I'd ever use this, but worth the exception imo: QFT
Sulavan	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Feng Zi Originally by: General Mount My last 3 petitions got a reply within 3 hours of posting each. I'm very happy with customer support. This is the only type of post CCP tends to read. I don't think customer service is completely dropping the ball, but I don't think they are as good as they could be either. I've had 1 petition (stuck) answered quickly, but a coupla others completely ignored for weeks. As an example: I at one time thought I had lost some ships by cancelling market orders. I didn't know about the "corp delivery" setup at the time. Instead of getting the "just look here" email, I never got a response AT ALL. How long could it possibly take to respond to this simple problem? Instead of just taking a minute to respond, they chose to just ignore it completely. This problem didn't need research or whatever, it just required the attention of a competent service rep that's aware of game mechanics. Bottom line is, as long as they (CCP) continue to believe that the "masses" are happy, they'll continue with game development and ignore existing issues. At least that's my opinion. you mean, your problem was in a queue and it took them a while to get to it? ...but then that would take imagining that there aren't people sitting around with nothing to do just waiting for you to mail them with a problem.
Jane Vladmir Gallente Warmongers	Posted - 2006.09.12 12:05:00 - [26] Edited by: Jane Vladmir on 12/09/2006 12:08:41 They used to reimburse ships alot more back in the day. Now they have to verify the loss. Another annoying thing is that when a bug happens and you lose your ship to it you don't get all your stuff back and the players who killed you don't lose what they gained; The killamil, your corpse and the loot, which if that bugged had been fixed they would. P.S. I got banned for three pre-payed months for gang inviting a scout alt in a shuttle passing our two manned camp. How's that for overkill. EDIT: Also, now I petition every curse word I notice on local hoping that they lower the penalty for it, seeing as alot of people get frustrated at being banned from the server for saying a couple of harsh words.
Fortior STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.12 12:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Feng Zi Originally by: Xelios Maybe if people stopped petitioning every ship loss that involved lag Lag...you said it yourself. Which goes right back to the origin of the problem. If they STOPPED game development, and addressed current issues, perhaps some of the losses (and resulting petitions) could be avoided entirely. I'd love to see 3d modelers try to fix some networking issues. Or the concept artists improve the graphics engine. Or kieron, the community manager, try to fix the database issues. You see where I'm going with this? "So get rid of the people doing content and hire more coders!" Pfft, by the time the new people are up to speed with the code, it'll already be stabilized. Then it's time to get rid of the new people and get the content people back in to develop the game. And then we haven't even started talking about the fact that EVE would lose a lot of potential, and current even!, customers if CCP said that there will be a no-development-time of say... Three months? Imagine everything being planned in Kali being pushed forward three months. Imagine the colossal whine. Then you even have to take into account that all expansions would introduce new issues. Then there'd have to be more no-development time after those... And this happens while the content people are forced to sit on their hands, unless CCP fires them. Dammit, it's such an easy thing to say that CCP should stop all development and fix all the issues. But people who say that, in essence, have no idea what they're talking about, the consequences and whatnot. And for the topic: I've filed 3 harassment petitions, all taken care of within the hour. One very complex stuck petition (it came down to the setup on my caracal, believe it or not, in conjunction with the system I was in) that was escalated and dealt with in two hours. 3 reimbursement petitions, 2 of which were thrown out (as they should've been, it was client lag) and 1 which I was reimbursed due to server lag and a subsequent crash on TQ. Those petitions took 3 weeks. I did other stuff while waiting on replies. [rant]Goddamn whiners[/rant]
Anfelina Adante Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.12 13:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Customer support in Eve as in most of the real world is screwed over by asshat customers making ridiculous petitions and generally being retards.... But thats just my view Alliaanna My view too. Plus, how many complainers are shills for other companies?
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.12 13:22:00 - [29] Originally by: Crumplecorn My one petition ever was a reimbursment one, and it did take weeks, but despite only being worth about 1.5M I got a profuse apology for the delay, so I was happy enough. You petitioned a 1.5 million loss? Recruitment
Caleb Paine adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:11:00 - [30] People should stop thinking they actually have a clue about doing something like CCP is doing. The more idiots who hammer the petition queue because they lost their Raven as they went AFK in a lvl 4 but won't admit to it and rather yell something about lag (the REALLY smart ones will even say serverside lag, mind you they had to look up that word) is the reason why there's such a long queue to begin with. IMO, remove ship reimbursement petitions all together; you lost a ship? tough luck. -------------------------------- I'm looking for a good signature artist click here
Icarus Starkiller	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:18:00 - [31] There's 'Customer Support'? Exploiter petitions that are never acted upon? Reiumbursment petitions that linger for 6 weeks before you ever get the canned 'nothing wrong on our end so fck off' response? - ISK Pharmers & Alt spies: A solution* Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:33:00 - [32] Maybe something will happen if you spell 'farmers' correctly. Recruitment
Flashover Caldari Black-Lotus	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:13:00 - [33] CCP customer support may not be perfect, but they make FunCom customer support (anarchy online and Age of Conan) look like a bunch of half trained monkeys loaded on scotch.
Darktec Caldari QUANT Corp.	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:39:00 - [34] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Customer support in Eve as in most of the real world is screwed over by asshat customers making ridiculous petitions and generally being retards.... But thats just my view Alliaanna You just sumed up 99% of the reembursment petitions.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.09.12 16:52:00 - [35] Maybe I'm just lucky, but my experience with customer support has been completely positive. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Lord Sid Minmatar Lordless	Posted - 2006.09.12 22:53:00 - [36] I've been absolutely beyond a doubt furious with this game. In response I made several rude, obtuse and generally uncalled for petitions. The gamemaster that handled the petitions marked my account with a warning for making multiple petitions and made a week threat towards my account in general. I could give a rats ass about his threat or the mark on my account. I have four accounts, if they want to loose my business that's there perogative. This is only a game. In the end I cancelled my petition for reimbursement realizing even though it wasn't my fault I could easily make the ISK back faster then it would take them to "investigate" the happening of my ship exploding. All in all the gamemaster was otherwise polite and didn't appreciate me spamming his queue. Probably about as much as I appreciated loosing my ship and mods due his games faults. I've had reason to file other petitions and they were handled promptly and politely. I've reported several ISK spammers and been thanked for it. Overall score for CCP's customer service I give a B+. They would have received an "A" if they could somehow manage to answer petitions for reimbursement in a timely manner. This might be put on the shoulders of Developers to create better tools to research this and possibly designate more man power to answering these petitions. It might seem reasonable to CCP's higher ups to take a month to respond to a claim, but to a player who's only asset was the ship and mods he lost a month is a very long time to have ISK that you just can't spend lest it "possibly" be taken back from you. -=Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds=-
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2006.09.12 23:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Customer support in Eve as in most of the real world is screwed over by asshat customers making ridiculous petitions and generally being retards.... But thats just my view Alliaanna QFT Especially customers that have the impression that because they live on this planet, they are the kings ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Darksaber64x Jump Cloneses	Posted - 2006.09.12 23:38:00 - [38] Edited by: Darksaber64x on 12/09/2006 23:40:22 Every time I've petitioned anything, I've gotten a fast, friendly reply. I only petitioned a ship loss once, it took 1 week, and I got mine back. 'Cource, my petition didn't say "OMG UR SERVER LAGGED AN I DIED GIVE ME NEW SHEEP OR I QUIT!" So maybe that helped Note: My petition was for concord randomly deciding to blow me up for blowing up a can of someone in my gang, and getting no pop-up warning (that was the bug).
Price Watcher	Posted - 2006.09.13 01:12:00 - [39] SACRED NEW CONTENT > than customer support! You don't like it? Give me your stuff. We need a YEAR without ANY 'new content'. Nothing but BUG FIXES. New content that does not work is WORTHLESS.
John Majore	Posted - 2006.09.13 01:16:00 - [40] 2 Months now and counting.....
Cutie Chaser Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.09.13 01:31:00 - [41] I've never needed to petition anything in my time in eve, despite losing ships and failing missions due to lag/server crash. Despite being horribly poor 99% of the time, its not worth the pain in the arse that dealing with the problems people describe here. Despite never having made an eve petition, I've probably filed 40+ petitions in Everquest, had many answered in 30 mins or less, longest I ever waited was 6 hours, and that was due to a bad patch day(release of an expansion). My petition time in SWG was even less, starting playing on release and played for 6 months. Me and a group of friends were putting in 10-15 petitions a day for weeks on end(for exploitable content, game was buggy as hell). Never had to wait, but not a fair comparison as it was an exploit petition. All in all, if I ever have a problem serious enough to require a petition in Eve, you'll all prolly hear about it as I come here to *** and moan like an impotent *** after the first day :P
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.13 01:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Customer support in Eve as in most of the real world is screwed over by asshat customers making ridiculous petitions and generally being retards.... But thats just my view Alliaanna They also have the problem that EVE's playerbase has doubled in the past year, and it's unlikely CCP's staff has doubled to keep up with it. However, hopefully CCP ends up hiring alot of new GMs to help out with atleast that part of the game, altho seeing more new devs could be cool too. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
Monngoo	Posted - 2006.09.13 08:27:00 - [43] I planned to make a post just like this. The fact that this post alread exists serves to demonstrate how bad the problem is. Players have to told me that their reimbursment petitions have gone unanswered for many months and they are still waiting. I too am tired of reading the news about 30k players while my problems go unaddressed. 22 days and still waiting.
Dak Torin Mithril Inc Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.13 08:42:00 - [44] Rubbish
Garia666 Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:07:00 - [45] CCP is scared about people talking or complaining about customer support.. Topics are being removed with out hesitation. They think by this they can ignore the customers. If i was CCP i would be man enough to face the problems and admit that they are there. If CCP make`s an official sticky where people can empty there hearths and get some feed back they will be less frustrated then they are now. However you will never see any reaction from an official. its to bad if you ask me. However i will make a prediction: There comes a day where CCP has to stop hiding behind there stones and will have to face it straight forward. I predict that some Gaming website with allot of influence will make an Topic about MMO`s and there customer support.. And make a verdict.
Flipper slipper	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:22:00 - [46] current reimbursement responsetime is a little over 5 weeks... i know because i had a reply to one last night. Its extremely frustrating, especially when its significant losses, I still have a carrier loss petition lingering from august 8'th.. thats a bill isk loss due to a desync issue in a fleet battle caused by a lag machine POS. A bill isk is not chicken feed and basically left my character dead in the water with no ship, i cant spend the isk for a new one because the reimbursement will reclaim the isk from insurance. I havent logged in for the last 4 weeks except to check for that petition, there is really no point... I am happy for CCP's success, eve is a great game, but customer support is woefully undemanned for the job... I am actually considering quitting eve for a while till they get the issue of GM availability resolved. Its not just the reimbursement issue, there is also the matter of bot's making isk and some players/corps and even alliances using borderline exploits in combat... I know i cant quit eve, i have 2 1/2 years and 5 accounts just above/below 40 mill SP, but I am thinking about it.... and before anyone gets coy... "NO you cant have my stuff, if anyone gets it its my good friends after so long in eve. Im using an alt to avoid freaking out my corpies :)
Sable Schroedinger Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:00:00 - [47] Originally by: Garia666 CCP is scared about people talking or complaining about customer support.. Topics are being removed with out hesitation. They think by this they can ignore the customers. If i was CCP i would be man enough to face the problems and admit that they are there. If CCP make`s an official sticky where people can empty there hearths and get some feed back they will be less frustrated then they are now. However you will never see any reaction from an official. its to bad if you ask me. However i will make a prediction: There comes a day where CCP has to stop hiding behind there stones and will have to face it straight forward. I predict that some Gaming website with allot of influence will make an Topic about MMO`s and there customer support.. And make a verdict. Since this thread has been around for over 24 hours (you were able to post on it after about 23 hours), this is obviously either wrong, a lie and/or childish flaming. -------------------------------------------- Nothing is as cruel as the righteousness of innocents
Lazuran	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:12:00 - [48] Edited by: Lazuran on 13/09/2006 11:15:53 what I think about customer support? Same thing as Gandhi did about Western Civilization - it would be a good idea. SCNR. ;-) (I'm kidding - customer support here is OK, not their fault that there are so many issues) "The whole of NYC is not 1.0. Some back alley in the Bronx is deep 0.0, while right outside NYPD headquarters is 1.0." -- Slaaght Bana
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:18:00 - [49] the part about whining and complaints about customer service and thread removals is a natural reaction - that said if a majority of players were annoyed enough to cancel subscription it would make a factor that said a lot of ppl threaten to quit but the numbers show ongoing growth i say lets speed up new content pile in as many bugs and fix em later - all reimbursement petitions should just be ignored anyway or just remove em altogether
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:41:00 - [50] Very good customer support for the few times I had to deal with them. ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
Anti Protagonist Gallente Archron Dusyfe Industries	Posted - 2006.09.13 16:33:00 - [51] Of the petition's that I have done (one loss, several exploit/harassment), they have all been handled well. The replacement took a month or two, but I got everything back. I'd say customer service is good here.
Auryn Darkblade	Posted - 2006.09.13 16:51:00 - [52] I must be living on another planet, because on this planet, waiting several WEEKS / MONTHS to get a lag ship loss refund to you is NOT ok. On my planet, no one would ever say that CCP customer support is doing a good job under these circumstances. Perhaps those of you who disagree are living on planet CCP?
Spaja Saist Gallente Isotope Industries	Posted - 2006.09.13 16:56:00 - [53] Originally by: Dixon Reimbursement petitions are being spammed to the max. The petition queue is a player-created problem that players tend to whine about. Kinda like BM copying and POS lag. That's right. Blame the customer for CCP's servers being laggy as hell. I put in a petition almost a month ago and I've still heard nothing. I've cacelled all three of my accounts till they decide to get their heads out of their asses.
Spaja Saist Gallente Isotope Industries	Posted - 2006.09.13 17:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Fortior Originally by: Feng Zi Originally by: Xelios Maybe if people stopped petitioning every ship loss that involved lag Lag...you said it yourself. Which goes right back to the origin of the problem. If they STOPPED game development, and addressed current issues, perhaps some of the losses (and resulting petitions) could be avoided entirely. I'd love to see 3d modelers try to fix some networking issues. Or the concept artists improve the graphics engine. Or kieron, the community manager, try to fix the database issues. You see where I'm going with this? "So get rid of the people doing content and hire more coders!" Pfft, by the time the new people are up to speed with the code, it'll already be stabilized. Then it's time to get rid of the new people and get the content people back in to develop the game. And then we haven't even started talking about the fact that EVE would lose a lot of potential, and current even!, customers if CCP said that there will be a no-development-time of say... Three months? Imagine everything being planned in Kali being pushed forward three months. Imagine the colossal whine. Then you even have to take into account that all expansions would introduce new issues. Then there'd have to be more no-development time after those... And this happens while the content people are forced to sit on their hands, unless CCP fires them. Dammit, it's such an easy thing to say that CCP should stop all development and fix all the issues. But people who say that, in essence, have no idea what they're talking about, the consequences and whatnot. And for the topic: I've filed 3 harassment petitions, all taken care of within the hour. One very complex stuck petition (it came down to the setup on my caracal, believe it or not, in conjunction with the system I was in) that was escalated and dealt with in two hours. 3 reimbursement petitions, 2 of which were thrown out (as they should've been, it was client lag) and 1 which I was reimbursed due to server lag and a subsequent crash on TQ. Those petitions took 3 weeks. I did other stuff while waiting on replies. [rant]Goddamn whiners[/rant] How about you go **** yourself. This game has never been stabalised. It gets worse and worse with every month anymore. I've been playing from the beginning and the server are worse now than they've ever been. And this is with all the supposed new servers and database upgrade. I've lost all faith in CCP. They are only making the game worse.
MuffinsRevenger Brenodi Capital Constructions	Posted - 2006.09.13 17:03:00 - [55] I'm happy with it :o
Spaja Saist Gallente Isotope Industries	Posted - 2006.09.13 17:04:00 - [56] Originally by: Caleb Paine People should stop thinking they actually have a clue about doing something like CCP is doing. The more idiots who hammer the petition queue because they lost their Raven as they went AFK in a lvl 4 but won't admit to it and rather yell something about lag (the REALLY smart ones will even say serverside lag, mind you they had to look up that word) is the reason why there's such a long queue to begin with. IMO, remove ship reimbursement petitions all together; you lost a ship? tough luck. Do you have proof this is happening? I thought not so shut the **** up. It's the idiots like you who think you know what everyone is petitioning.
Cutie Chaser Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.09.13 17:33:00 - [57] Originally by: Darksaber64x ...I find it hard to belive that this many people lost their ship due to lag. I've been playing all through the lag, running level 4 missions in my raven... ... They don't have a magic log that tracks all ship losses for each person and where/why it happend... 2 points: 1.) It is people who run missions using ships which are less suited for mission running then a faction-fitted raven that have trouble with lag I think. T1 frigs in level 2s, AF in lvl 3, any non-raven in lvl 4s. In these situations lag can be much more fatal. 2.) It is not our fault that they do not have a ship-loss tracking system.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.13 17:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Spaja Saist How about you go **** yourself. This game has never been stabalised. It gets worse and worse with every month anymore. I've been playing from the beginning and the server are worse now than they've ever been. And this is with all the supposed new servers and database upgrade. I've lost all faith in CCP. They are only making the game worse. So why are you still here? Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.13 17:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Cutie Chaser 2 points: 1.) It is people who run missions using ships which are less suited for mission running then a faction-fitted raven that have trouble with lag I think. T1 frigs in level 2s, AF in lvl 3, any non-raven in lvl 4s. In these situations lag can be much more fatal. 2.) It is not our fault that they do not have a ship-loss tracking system. 1. An AF crushes lvl 3s, lag or not. The only time I've ever had a problem in a lvl 3 with my harpy, was after RMR, since now lvl 3 GEs pull almost full aggro on the last stage, however a gistii small SB and a kin hardener lets you tank till blue in the face. I've also run level 4s in a ferox, with lag. You're being ignorant to think you have to overkill on a mission. 2. I'm going to assume you're just trolling with this one, or that you've NEVER lost a ship. See those lossmails and killmails? You think those are gone forever when you delete it? GMs base reimbursements on that data, hence, you only get back what was blown up. I strongly suggest you think before just posting random garbage. I also have run lvl 4s in a T2/named mod fitted Raven in Lageken and Motsu, where the lag was so bad my launchers wouldn't auto-reload, and only on Vengance lvl 4 last stages, was it a problem. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
Tachy	Posted - 2006.09.13 17:51:00 - [60] Originally by: Cutie Chaser Originally by: Darksaber64x ...I find it hard to belive that this many people lost their ship due to lag. I've been playing all through the lag, running level 4 missions in my raven... ... They don't have a magic log that tracks all ship losses for each person and where/why it happend... 2 points: 1.) It is people who run missions using ships which are less suited for mission running then a faction-fitted raven that have trouble with lag I think. T1 frigs in level 2s, AF in lvl 3, any non-raven in lvl 4s. In these situations lag can be much more fatal. 2.) It is not our fault that they do not have a ship-loss tracking system. So pilots should never start a mission, or even undock? I like our GM team pretty much. They're doing a great job and they need a boost in numbers from GM who do not lose ships fitted with stuff that doesn't drop. If the code junkies squished a couple of bugs instead of dropping more bugged features onto tranquility ... ah, well, different department, I know ... eg --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Fortior STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:05:00 - [61] Originally by: Spaja Saist Originally by: Fortior Originally by: Feng Zi Originally by: Xelios snip snipquote] snip How about you go **** yourself. This game has never been stabalised. It gets worse and worse with every month anymore. I've been playing from the beginning and the server are worse now than they've ever been. And this is with all the supposed new servers and database upgrade. I've lost all faith in CCP. They are only making the game worse. I see my post has horribly offended you, your faith and your family. I humbly withdraw my unstructured rant and personal attacks. Poorly hidden sarcasm aside, do you even know what you're talking about? Seriously? If you've been there since the beginning then you must have a very selective memory. Lag in crowded systems (say, 300 peeps in a single 0.0 system? or a crowded agent hub?) is hardly comparable to imbalanced ships with 20x damage mods, client crashing when opening market screen, lagging out when making bookmarks in space (that didn't live long though). I could go on with some serious bugs. TQ has come a looooong way. TQ was incredibly fast after the RAMSAN-upgrade, not to mention the entire cluster update. You, simply put, have no idea.
Fortior STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:07:00 - [62] Edited by: Fortior on 13/09/2006 18:07:59 double post
Cutie Chaser Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:15:00 - [63] Edited by: Cutie Chaser on 13/09/2006 18:16:16 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia 1. An AF crushes lvl 3s, lag or not. The only time I've ever had a problem in a lvl 3 with my harpy, was after RMR, since now lvl 3 GEs pull almost full aggro on the last stage, however a gistii small SB and a kin hardener lets you tank till blue in the face. I've also run level 4s in a ferox, with lag. You're being ignorant to think you have to overkill on a mission. 2. I'm going to assume you're just trolling with this one, or that you've NEVER lost a ship. See those lossmails and killmails? You think those are gone forever when you delete it? GMs base reimbursements on that data, hence, you only get back what was blown up. I strongly suggest you think before just posting random garbage. I also have run lvl 4s in a T2/named mod fitted Raven in Lageken and Motsu, where the lag was so bad my launchers wouldn't auto-reload, and only on Vengance lvl 4 last stages, was it a problem. WTF? I am not BLAMING people for using undersized ships, I'm saying that when you do, lag CAN be more of an issue. I am responding to someone saying "I don't lose my ubar raven, therefore no one should ever lose a ship". It is a helluva lot easier to lose an AF to 30 seconds of lag in a level 3 than a passively tanked Ferox. Not everyone flies in a gisti hawk. As for the losemail comment, a losemail doesn't mean JACK **** to a GM, it cannot portray wether or not LAG was an issue. Are you assuming that GMs just blindly trust people when they say it was lag? I am certian there are other lgos that they could check, but it is obviously not an efficient system. How about you understand WTF you are talking about before you decide to reply to my post. You attacked my first response after COMPLETELY missing the point, and you failed to understand the second. That makes you 0/2. The entire point of my post was to point out that there are many reasons people may lose a ship to lag, NOT to critize people for it.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:27:00 - [64] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Customer support in Eve as in most of the real world is screwed over by asshat customers making ridiculous petitions and generally being retards.... But thats just my view Alliaanna Agree. Anyone who makes a reimbursement petition for something which is not CCPs fault should be stripped of all their ingame assets. Far too many people think that CCP should return anything they lose, for whatever reason - and then they cry emotears when they have to wait, or their petition is denied. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Darksaber64x Jump Cloneses	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:37:00 - [65] Originally by: Cutie Chaser WTF? I am not BLAMING people for using undersized ships, I'm saying that when you do, lag CAN be more of an issue. I am responding to someone saying "I don't lose my ubar raven, therefore no one should ever lose a ship". It is a helluva lot easier to lose an AF to 30 seconds of lag in a level 3 than a passively tanked Ferox. Not everyone flies in a gisti hawk. My "ubar" raven has mostly tech 1 stuff on it, tech one named sure, the only faction mod I have on it is a domination shield amp...
Spaja Saist Gallente Isotope Industries	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:44:00 - [66] Originally by: Fortior Originally by: Spaja Saist Originally by: Fortior Originally by: Feng Zi Originally by: Xelios snip snipquote] snip How about you go **** yourself. This game has never been stabalised. It gets worse and worse with every month anymore. I've been playing from the beginning and the server are worse now than they've ever been. And this is with all the supposed new servers and database upgrade. I've lost all faith in CCP. They are only making the game worse. I see my post has horribly offended you, your faith and your family. I humbly withdraw my unstructured rant and personal attacks. Poorly hidden sarcasm aside, do you even know what you're talking about? Seriously? If you've been there since the beginning then you must have a very selective memory. Lag in crowded systems (say, 300 peeps in a single 0.0 system? or a crowded agent hub?) is hardly comparable to imbalanced ships with 20x damage mods, client crashing when opening market screen, lagging out when making bookmarks in space (that didn't live long though). I could go on with some serious bugs. TQ has come a looooong way. TQ was incredibly fast after the RAMSAN-upgrade, not to mention the entire cluster update. You, simply put, have no idea. This is a load of BS. Nothing changed when they upgraded the RAMSAN. Nothing changed when they installed a whole new cluster. I get the same amount of lag now as I've always had. And before you blame my connection I have 5mbs of bandwidth and a top of the line computer.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:50:00 - [67] Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 13/09/2006 18:53:41 Originally by: Cutie Chaser WTF? I am not BLAMING people for using undersized ships, I'm saying that when you do, lag CAN be more of an issue. I am responding to someone saying "I don't lose my ubar raven, therefore no one should ever lose a ship". It is a helluva lot easier to lose an AF to 30 seconds of lag in a level 3 than a passively tanked Ferox. Not everyone flies in a gisti hawk. It's easier to lose a Hawk or Harpy, but I can turn on my T2 SB and my harpy can just orbit something and tank forever unless it pulls a massive aggro. You're right, not everyone flies gist. To this day, I have yet to fit a faction mod on any ship. I don't need them, even in 'lag' with an 'undersized' ship. It might be 'easier' to lose an AF in a level 3, but they're lost to stupidity 9 of out 10 times. Altho those 9 times will most likely be 'lag' petitions. Quote: As for the losemail comment, a losemail doesn't mean JACK ** to a GM, it cannot portray wether or not LAG was an issue. Are you assuming that GMs just blindly trust people when they say it was lag? I am certian there are other lgos that they could check, but it is obviously not an efficient system. Last time I filed a petition, reimbursement petitions said that they did not give back anything lost to lag. Perhaps the GMs are forsaking their rule, if so, they're making life harder on themselves, and I'm not sure what type of logs you think exist that would show a person being 'lagged' when they died. I'm sure they have various logs to check too, but I just don't see them having logs that show the ping for players around the time they died. However the de-synchs are another story, as they most likely can also see the person warped, docked, then blew up 50aus back. Quote: How about you understand WTF you are talking about before you decide to reply to my post. You attacked my first response after COMPLETELY missing the point, and you failed to understand the second. That makes you 0/2. The entire point of my post was to point out that there are many reasons people may lose a ship to lag, NOT to critize people for it. You said in your first point it's people using 'undersized' ships that lose them to lag, I gave examples pointing out why that wasn't true, and I'll give more if you need them. People who lose ships in missions rarely lose them to 'lag'. They lose them because they ** up, but then they petition them, claiming lag, and CCP usually gives them their ship back, so they do it over and over. You don't die because of even a 10second lag in missions, unless you up(read: You decide to sit there and shoot until you're in hull), period. My point was that most people who lose a ship to 'lag', do so because they fail to realize that if they're lagging 10 seconds, they need to warp out 10-15 seconds earlier than usual. Quote:** The fact that you say that you can run your raven while under horrible lag REINFORCES my point. Were I flying a Ferox under the same lag in the same mission, lag would be much more of an issue. You missed my point on that. Raven or Ferox, it wouldn't matter, I still won't die on a level 4 with lag. Maybe I'm one of the few people who know you should warp out early, and not late? Also, lag wouldn't be an issue regardless, because lag doesn't suddenly make an NPC weaker or stronger. You are trying to coddle players and baby them, suggesting that due to 'lagl', the player is not at fault. Well they are. If a player doesn't adapt to a situation, they die, and CCP should not have to waste time with petitions crying about the loss of a ship because of lag. Lag,m that the players usually know is there, yet try to play like normal. Most people who die to lag, are the people who fire at a target at max range with torps, until it dies, wasting 4-5 salvos and alot of time in the process. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:58:00 - [68] Originally by: Spaja Saist This is a load of BS. Nothing changed when they upgraded the RAMSAN. Nothing changed when they installed a whole new cluster. I get the same amount of lag now as I've always had. And before you blame my connection I have 5mbs of bandwidth and a top of the line computer. Why do people think that just because they have a good computer, and good connection, that they'll have an awesome connection to everything? If you have a bad route to the server, nothing you do is going to help you. Also where do you sit that you didn't notice an improvement? I can fly through Jita during peak hours and get less lag (still) than I got at any time there before the upgrades. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
Cutie Chaser Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:58:00 - [69] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia You missed my point on that. Raven or Ferox, it wouldn't matter, I still won't die on a level 4 with lag. Maybe I'm one of the few people who know you should warp out early, and not late? Also, lag wouldn't be an issue regardless, because lag doesn't suddenly make an NPC weaker or stronger. I don't lose ships to lag either, but then agian obviously neither you nor I are filling up the petition queue. The fact is that SOME people are less cautious, and they don't feel that they should need to take possible lag into consideration when running a mission. Wether that is right or wrong, it is the truth. When people throw caution to the wind and warp at the last second, lag can be a deciding factor. And when you are flying a ship with less survivability, then the few seconds of non-responsiveness can be fatal. I'm not saying that people should stop running in smaller ships, or that it is bright to run the razors edge, I'm just saying that people do it.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:00:00 - [70] Originally by: Cutie Chaser I'm not saying that people should stop running in smaller ships, or that it is bright to run the razors edge, I'm just saying that people do it. And I'm saying their poor reaction-time shouldn't be clogging up the petition cue. CCP needs to flat out NOT give reimbursements when a loss is due to lag. The only exception being if the lag was player generated/exploitive, such as warping in where someone dropped a few hundred items to lag you to death. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
Cutie Chaser Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:06:00 - [71] Edited by: Cutie Chaser on 13/09/2006 19:06:54 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia And I'm saying their poor reaction-time shouldn't be clogging up the petition cue. CCP needs to flat out NOT give reimbursements when a loss is due to lag. The only exception being if the lag was player generated/exploitive, such as warping in where someone dropped a few hundred items to lag you to death. Players being punished for hardware problems is a bad deal in many peoples eyes.

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